Agreed, think having some experienced RB as competition will help immensely.
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Agreed, think having some experienced RB as competition will help immensely.
This.. socking stuff and very naive to say the least.
Everyone else here is saying that Valencia even at right-back during his peak was better going forward than Wan-Bissaka. It's obviously you that doesn't remember well.
The discussion on Valencia vs AWB is a side track which very few people have commented on so I don't know who you are talking about.
So what exactly was Valencia better at in attack?
AWB has a tendency to switch off and drift inwards - not sure if it’s a flaw or he’s being asked to provide extra cover for our 2 slow CBs. He also twice played the forwards onside in the first half that almost cost us...for £50 million I would have expected more of a finished product than a work in progress.
Exactly, it's a side discussion but 4 people have said Valencia was more useful than Wan-Bissaka. If you've conveniently managed to not read those posts then I don't know what you're talking about to be honest.
Valencia was one dimensional generally but was extremely effective at times. Wan-Bissaka is nowhere near that level yet, it's clear as day.
If it was clear as day why are you having trouble stating what exactly he was better at? Should be simple. Dribbling? Crossing? Scoring? You tell me... Which aspect of his attacking was better?
I was disappointed with him tonight, he was ok but I thought he'd be flying after the way he played in midweek.
I like the guy but man is he one of the doziest players I’ve ever seen
Valencia when he played RB basically was the same player AWB is now except without the tackling ability. I mean feck my caf name is literally based on the meme of Valencia constantly just taking the ball on the wing and hammering it into the oppositions shins in the box. He was just as one dimensional as AWB, although certainly a better dribbler, but he rarely showcased that part of his game in later years.
Valencia in his first couple of seasons as fullback was better at getting forward into dangerous positions and stretching the play, and also just general passing and movement to help our build-up. Obviously in his last couple of seasons he started just turning back all the time, but even then his starting position tended to be higher so he'd still be stretching the play more.
What I will give AWB the edge in though is his final cross/pass. Valencia's final ball was always poor from the moment he went to fullback (which was strange as he had a couple of seasons on the wing where he showed good end product), whereas AWB's is actually surprisingly decent when he actually gets into those positions.
I think his attacking play is developing as is his crossing. Never came here the visited article and given time, those defensive errors will improve.
His last minute costed us 2 points. The pass and the mistimed jump.
Apart from his tackle, he is actually a very poor defender. Switches off multiple times during a game. He played on Eveton player multiple times last game and this isn't the first game he has done that. He is usually the player who defeat our offside trap. Shaw used to be guilty of doing this so I think AWB can still improve on that but we need competition like we have on LB. He is getting way too comfortable with no competition for his place
Genuinely thick. This game aside, the amount of times he plays people onside, the amount of times he doesn't know where he should be positionally, or doesn't notice an opposition in space down his flank, or even if he does he chooses to do nothing about it.
Great tackler. Poor defender. Terrible modern full back.
Great tackler. Poor defender. Terrible modern full back.
His positioning is so poor, we're going to get killed at some point with his lack of awareness in offside traps. If he's not even defending well, what's the point of him.
You are the one who has your mind clouded by the last year or two Valencia played here. During Mourinho's first season and LVG last one, he did pretty well going forward, stretching the play on the wing and creating a threat there all the time. During the season in which we won the EL we were basically playing without a right winger, Mata will start there and drift centrally to evacuate the space completely for Valencia to attack on his own and he did really well in this setup.
He declined massively in this in his last 2 years here, but before that, he was of course better than AWB in stretching the play and providing something for the opponent to be wary about
People seem to mistake attacking contribution of fullbacks for just crossing. Crossing is part of it but most top modern attacking fullbacks are effective through creating havok in defense, stretching the play and putting the opposition defenders under continuous threat. This is more effective than just a crossee.
For things like these Shaw has been better for us this season than Telles. Telles cross well, but he doesn't threaten the defenders nor create havok through his dribbling as Shaw has been doing.
Valencia was doing the same in his early years as fullbacks before declining in these aspects during his last 2 years with us. AWB still has a long journey ahead of him to become a fullback that puts the defenders under continuous threat by dribbling at them.
For things like these Shaw has been better for us this season than Telles. Telles cross well, but he doesn't threaten the defenders nor create havok through his dribbling as Shaw has been doing.
Valencia was doing the same in his early years as fullbacks before declining in these aspects during his last 2 years with us. AWB still has a long journey ahead of him to become a fullback that puts the defenders under continuous threat by dribbling at them.
He has concentration issues. Sometimes when a ball is passed to him it's like he's drunk and Mis controls it
And I don't get why he can't hold the line when he's looking across the defence. He always drops deep once or twice a game and allows the opposition to be played onside. He does it way too often and it needs to be worked on.
And I don't get why he can't hold the line when he's looking across the defence. He always drops deep once or twice a game and allows the opposition to be played onside. He does it way too often and it needs to be worked on.
I really like AWB, and was very glad when we signed him. He has given us plenty of moments of joy in his short career so far, and is showing he can improve his efficiency.
Yesterday I thought he was abysmal - from the start, playing them onside, and some stray passing. He got an assist, but really an assist anyone would have got - that was all Bruno. Come the last few minutes, his positioning when Axel was left isolated with Josh King was just silly considering the time and the state of play. AWB wins that tackle every time - he should have been there.
Before the foul, he had the ball with time and needed to play it into the channel - the game is probably closed off there with Cavani in the corner, he played a crazy pass infield which made no sense. Then finally his jump was timed so poorly when defending the FK, timed properly he gets something on that and its over.
He is young, and I am sure he will learn from it - annoying yesterday, but in the scheme of things I think he has it in him to get to the levels required.
Yesterday I thought he was abysmal - from the start, playing them onside, and some stray passing. He got an assist, but really an assist anyone would have got - that was all Bruno. Come the last few minutes, his positioning when Axel was left isolated with Josh King was just silly considering the time and the state of play. AWB wins that tackle every time - he should have been there.
Before the foul, he had the ball with time and needed to play it into the channel - the game is probably closed off there with Cavani in the corner, he played a crazy pass infield which made no sense. Then finally his jump was timed so poorly when defending the FK, timed properly he gets something on that and its over.
He is young, and I am sure he will learn from it - annoying yesterday, but in the scheme of things I think he has it in him to get to the levels required.
Cavani should have scored from his cross.
Okay, so in what particular metric did he excel or surpass AWB? Dribbling, crossing, scoring? Any other...feel free to add.
You have it spot on. Barring his tackling ability, which I think is the best in the world, he is a terrible defender. Maldini once famously said that if he has had to make a tackle, it means he has already made a mistake.
Good defenders (let alone the truly great ones) position themselves so well that they don't have to make last ditch tackles. They can read the play and sense danger. That is why the likes of Rio were called the Rolls Royce. AWB is horrible at sensing danger, let alone understanding the current play and positioning. He will never be an elite defender and if he isn't going to be that, what's even the point of him.
Would rather a FB who doesn't have to make Hollywood tackles to contain the opposition.
Basically this! I was one of the strongest advocates of us signing him. But, yeah, 1v1 he's class. Everything else is just bang avg to poor.
Stupid decision that led to their equaliser. He has so many things to work on. He has the attributes to be a top player though.
I would question what kind of coaching he is getting. He seemed defensively better at Palace.
I would question what kind of coaching he is getting. He seemed defensively better at Palace.
If his positioning is poor for a right back, then whats Maguire who was the one man who played an Everton man onside for 2 of their 3 goals? That wasnt AWB. That was our £80 million CB.
AWB has been positionally poor on occasions. When you think these two cost a combined 130 mil, money doesn't seem to be an issue. Making the most of it does
AWB has been positionally poor on occasions. When you think these two cost a combined 130 mil, money doesn't seem to be an issue. Making the most of it does
Yes but once again as is the constant conversation in this thread, who are the right backs at our rivals that are better positionally? They all get caught occasionally on the offside trap. Defensive positioning is not that high of a priority in fullbacks right now. All the fancy names that are brought up in this thread as better rightbacks are just as bad or worse with their defensive positioning and worse overall defending. People have brought up TAA a lot but AWB is 5 times better defending. TAA's positioning and defending are awful, he just gets covered much better by his team
Never rated him from the off and got pelters for it on here last season pointing out his many flaws. Most people see them now thankfully.
He's not a £50m player and he's not a PL title winning fullback.
DDG seems to have regressed massively and Lindelof n Maguire are a shambles as a pairing too. This isnt helping either.
Need to buy 2 new defenders this summer. World class CB and RB
He's not a £50m player and he's not a PL title winning fullback.
DDG seems to have regressed massively and Lindelof n Maguire are a shambles as a pairing too. This isnt helping either.
Need to buy 2 new defenders this summer. World class CB and RB
I get your point with TAA's defensive attributes being weaker than his attacking attributes. But AWB should be looking across his line and realizing his position compared to the players in his view and having the intelligence to step out when the others are playing offside. There seems to be a lack of communication in our back 4.
Great at one on one defending and has good recovery pace.
Awful decision making and panics when in possession. It wasn’t even the last few seconds. Throughout he gave the ball away when it wold have been easier to keep it. Seems scared. Can’t have that in a defender
Needs competition at RB and experienced one to make him push on
People need stop saying his great defensively. His not. Don’t confuse him being great at one on one duals with being generally defensively competent. His concentration is awful
He should, but I see it from fullbacks at all the clubs. Fullbacks tend to be less switched on than the CBs when it comes to the offside trap and when your CB makes the mistake, or two like Maguire against Everton, they're the ones who are going to get particularly scalded for it because things should be more simple positionally for them as they arent going up and down the pitch joining the attack and then joining the backline again. The picture is always in front of the CBs and part of their job is to cover the fullbacks and that includes knowing if they're in line or behind you.
I think people have to remember he's been asked to cover the whole flank this season, which naturally takes time to adapt his fitness levels to that every week. The concentration levels dropping tend to be born out of him not being sharp. He seems to have a lot more miscontrols as well. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt it not being his general game intelligence and more adapting to the role.
It's becoming a bit of a habit for him to not be watching his CBs line though, so he needs to improve quickly on that or he'll not last.
It's becoming a bit of a habit for him to not be watching his CBs line though, so he needs to improve quickly on that or he'll not last.
Ironically he’s actually been excellent at this, it’s just we are so reliant on it because of our slow CBs that when it goes wrong, it’s so obvious. We were a few weeks ago (might still be need to find the stat) the best team for catching teams offside, Leeds were 2nd and it's no surprise given we both play a high line with relatively slow CBs. A lot of that success id down to Shaw & AWB who constantly have to watch Maguire, which is made harder by how he'll often drift out of position (which I assume is a tactic)
Make no mistake, I'm sure you can find fault with everyone's game at points yesterday but for the most part we were good. If you want to blame someone, DDG caused the first goal and could have stopped the third.
I do agree with your notions that our problems are greater at CB than anywhere else currently.
Has the attributes to be a top RB but at the moment his only strengths are his athleticism and slide tackling. In situations where he is unable to use either he does worry me.
That pass down the line to Cavani in the last minute was so simple, if he doesn't have the ability to do that, which he clearly doesn't, then at least check-back in that situation and play it to either McTominay or Tuanzebe who were free and just keep the bloody ball! He does that and we win the game, simple. Saying that, he wasn't the reason we lost the game today.
That pass down the line to Cavani in the last minute was so simple, if he doesn't have the ability to do that, which he clearly doesn't, then at least check-back in that situation and play it to either McTominay or Tuanzebe who were free and just keep the bloody ball! He does that and we win the game, simple. Saying that, he wasn't the reason we lost the game today.
Dribbling.
Wait why is Wan Bissaka getting criticized? This is weird. He missed a header off a long ball set piece. It happens. Lapses in concentration also tend to be far more frequent (with anyone) when they're overplayed, and Wan Bissaka pretty much plays 90 minutes in every single game.
Wan Bissaka has improved loads this season IMO. He's answered the questions I had about him and has been excellent going forward. Will only improve in that aspect with a more natural right winger in front of him.
Wan Bissaka has improved loads this season IMO. He's answered the questions I had about him and has been excellent going forward. Will only improve in that aspect with a more natural right winger in front of him.
Dribbling, strength, first touch, shooting
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