His offensive football brain is actually good for a RB, the problem is his technical ability is pretty limited. He ends up looking clueless at times because he can't carry out what his brain is telling him to do.
29
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 54
- Clean sheets
- 21
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
He does look unnatural, but once he finds himself in those positions his final cross or pass is surprisingly decent. Not great of course, but it's enough that it's not the part that annoys me. He actually creates a surprising amount of decent chances like he did with Rashford yesterday.
It's his movement to get into those positions more often, and his build-up over the rest of the field that makes me wince. Fullbacks should be good at least one of those aspects - either helping play out from the back and assisting the midfield, or running the wing, stretching the opposition and getting in crosses. Shaw has always been great at the former which is why I've never been too negative on him, even though I would still wish that he could get better at the latter (which he is definitely showing signs of again). AWB is poor at both. I don't think he has the ability to be the former as he simply isn't good enough on the ball, but my hope is that he will develop his attacking positioning and running.
Let's be honest, he picks the ball up and often he's faced by 2/3 opponents on the right flank and is completely isolated. His delivery is terrible, but he's a strong runner and can actually beat a man with his unpredictable and awkward dribbling.
Therefore, you would think we would try and use him as an overlapping threat where he has as minimal touches in the build up. Unfortunately we have no right wingers who truly understand how to play as a winger, and how to stretch the opponent and commit players. How often do you see us getting in those 2v1 overloads down the flank where we can get to the byline?
AWB isn't TAA where he can whip the ball in from deep to devastating effect. We need to find a way to get productivity out of him, instead of trying to get him to be something he's not. Because if we're going to persist with inside forwards who don't hug the touchline and provide an option for AWB in attack, then we may as well sell.
Therefore, you would think we would try and use him as an overlapping threat where he has as minimal touches in the build up. Unfortunately we have no right wingers who truly understand how to play as a winger, and how to stretch the opponent and commit players. How often do you see us getting in those 2v1 overloads down the flank where we can get to the byline?
AWB isn't TAA where he can whip the ball in from deep to devastating effect. We need to find a way to get productivity out of him, instead of trying to get him to be something he's not. Because if we're going to persist with inside forwards who don't hug the touchline and provide an option for AWB in attack, then we may as well sell.
So on average your top 5 right backs have 2.6 goal contributions each, with AWB having 2. Objectively, therefore he is right up there with the best attacking right backs, and if you call him poor offensively that's an opinion that doesn't bear our in statistical analysis.
Christ, you wanted to see how he fared statistically to prove a point that he's effective and I pulled up the numbers which show he's below the mean. Your argument that he's particularly effective isn't even true!! You successfully disproved your own argument. Beyond that though, and way more important than the numbers which only tell a slither of the picture, is that you if you watch AWB on a game by game basis you can see with your own eyes he lacks confidence and ability going forward. I don't know how this is such a contentious point, it's been fairly widely agreed upon by the majority of United fans. I mean bloody hell, Ole was blunt in one of his pressers saying that United fullbacks are expected to attack as well as defend in reference to AWB! Aaron himself recently came out and said he's been working on his game going forward! I honestly don't know what you've been watching, reading, and listening to if you think he's been really effective for us going forward.
This is something we hear quite often on here, that isn't true in my view. "The opposition let him have time on the ball! He's the weak link etc etc"
Sheffield United played 5-3-2 against us. Their tactical plan was;
- Sit deep with 5 defenders to prevent space in behind
- Use three midfielders who shuttle from left to right (and vice versa) depending on where the play is. Regardless of whether an opponent plays a 5-3-2 or a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1 without the ball, the midfielders will shuttle left and right to deny space near the ball
- Play two up front so there will be some numbers forward for counter attacks and more chance of holding up the ball
A 5-3-2 formation will naturally leave some space on the flanks, in midfield as there are only three midfielders playing there. But as soon as the ball is played to the left or the right, the midfielders will move in that direction
Because we build up so often on the left, that area of the pitch is soon congested as the opposition midfield moves there once we start playing there. The same happens on the right too - it's just that the "extra space on the right when we play on the left" is more noticeable because we play on the left so often.
So yes, when we play on the left there's more space for AWB on the right because their midfield moves to the left to deny space there. This would also be true if we had Cafu or Dani Alves at right back too.
Agree. Valencia used to have loads of space on the right too, partly because Rooney's favourite thing was to pick the ball up centrally and switch the ball quickly out to the right. We also have Greenwood playing right wing and when hes actually on the right wing theres very little threat. His threat comes from runs centrally behind the defence or picking the ball just right of centre so he can shoot. Therefore teams dont need to worry to much about the width of our right side because its a fullback alone. If Shaw was alone to take on the entire left side he'd get some space too because there arent 3 other players being marked within 15 yards of him like actually happens on our left.
You’re compounding the point. If he were Cafu or Dani Alves we wouldn’t be so profligate from the position.
We don’t play against 5-3-2 every week; teams that play 4-3-3 aren’t particularly bothered by him either. They know the switch is coming but that it’ll generally take him a few touches to gather control of the ball so they can shift accordingly.
We do build up a lot on the left which means your RB needs to do more with the space afforded which he doesn’t do.
It’s rather clear teams back off him in favour of closing other positions; it’s a tactic to let him have the ball at this point.
It's really simple, but you're twisting my words now. I never said he is particularly effective which would imply that he is among the best at attacking. I never said he was great either. I chose my words carefully and said merely effective which means he is not bad at it, not that he is particularly good. I referenced those numbers to show you that he is in the mix with the very best not that he is the best. And I'm sure you understand that an average combines a range of numbers, of which many are the same as AWB's and some worse.
The bottom line is, if you have numbers that are slightly below the average of the top players at what you do then you might not be the best but you can certainly be said to be effective. How can you dispute this?
As to whether or not a vast majority of Utd fans have agreed on his offensive quality does not merit comment--the majority of fans is hardly a barometer for any insight. If AWB has close to the average numbers of the very best then he is effective. Period.
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Mate, I gave you numbers from about 10 right-backs. Is Coufal the very best? Is Lamptey? Bellerin? Aurier? These are fairly average players in average to bad teams that don't score or generally create much. We're the second highest goal scorers in the league! We're gunning for the title! Even still, it all comes down to the numbers? Even though Wan-Bissaka's are lower than about 7/8 other starting right-backs? What a ridiculous way to judge a fullback's attacking contribution. Shaw has less G+A than AWB this season, by your number-obsessed metrics he's less effective for us going forward than AWB which is completely fecking mad. It's a shame you don't think the opinions of people posting here offer any insight. Can't see you'd bother frequenting the site myself, but ho-hum.
If the price had been £5 million rather than £50 million would we feel so uncomfortable with benching Wan-Bissaka and looking for a more well-rounded replacement?
It's difficult to judge him properly without a genuine RW ahead of him as our makeshift options (Greenwood, Rashford, Mata etc.) are all better in other positions which just exacerbates his technical limitations. If we signed Sancho the attacking freedom he'd be afford by Wan-Bissaka could be an effective pairing.
My main issue is that Wan-Bissaka is only really good at specific parts of defending e.g. one-on-one defending and recovery tackles. He genuinely is the best one-on-one defender in the league. The other parts of his defensive game, however, are poor; his positioning is generally terrible, he has a tendency to ball watch, and he's pretty useless in the air. So when you combine that with his lack of attacking threat we're not left with much to work with.
It's difficult to judge him properly without a genuine RW ahead of him as our makeshift options (Greenwood, Rashford, Mata etc.) are all better in other positions which just exacerbates his technical limitations. If we signed Sancho the attacking freedom he'd be afford by Wan-Bissaka could be an effective pairing.
My main issue is that Wan-Bissaka is only really good at specific parts of defending e.g. one-on-one defending and recovery tackles. He genuinely is the best one-on-one defender in the league. The other parts of his defensive game, however, are poor; his positioning is generally terrible, he has a tendency to ball watch, and he's pretty useless in the air. So when you combine that with his lack of attacking threat we're not left with much to work with.
What a ridiculous post. One of the reasons were high scoring in the league is because AWB is so good defensively and trusted by his teammates that we have wingers who dont defend, or a player who has mainly attacking qualities playing in a DM role like Pogba. Teams are about balance, certain players can be more offensive in one team than another because other players are taking over the dirty work. AWB is doing a lot of our dirty work so we can have CBs who enjoy being on the ball more than defending, DMs who specialise in running about or in Pogba's case being creative from deep rather than defending, wingers who dont track back and instead take up positions where we can find them in dangerous areas to break when we get the ball back etc.
Lamptey can play right midfield because Brighton arent expected to do a lot better than being 17th and having someone on the wing who has just 1 goal and 1 assist - the same as AWB from a real rightback role where he defends thrice as much as Lamptey.
Arsenal are 9th and Spurs are 6th, probably not a good time to be suggesting we should copy what they have. Even so, Spurs are fairly similar to us in terms of formation, at least until recently they were using the same 4-2-3-1, having Hojbjerg drop deep and get on the ball like our midfielders are complained about doing and having excellent players on the break. And Aurier also makes lots of tackles and has just 1 more goal than AWB's 1 goal and 1 assist. Bellerin has been a joke for 3 or 4 years now so what a silly player to bring up
You've completely misread the conversation, I wasn't suggesting we emulate either of what Arsenal or Spurs are doing. I couldn't disagree more with the assertion that one of the reasons why we we're high scoring is down to AWB so I don't see the point in taking this further. The fact that you're a United fan and are still naive to the fact that the vast majority of our attacks are down the left and a tiny minority come from the right says it all. No interest in discussing this with someone that's trying to peddle an agenda.
You've been told, its up to you if you remain ignorant about how teams actually work.
I specifically asked for the numbers from the best so why did you post numbers from those you consider average? Okay, then who are the best 5? Quite simply, state who the best five are, and lets compare AWB to them.
I think you will find that the concept and definition of effectiveness has very much to do with output. But since you insist otherwise, I am really quite interested in learning what you think is the appropriate way to evaluate a full-backs offensive output if not assists. Do tell.
I think we can all agree that AWB needs to offer more going forward - in terms of assists and his overall attacking contribution
But it's this idea that he's rubbish and just a tackle machine is a nonsense, as evidenced by the fact that few Premier League RBs are actually creating better attacking numbers.
Let's also not forget that this is a player who is quick, and strong with good stamina and work rate and who is aggressive. Telles for example has no pace, and it makes him a much worse full back for that.
AWB is also a willing and improving dribbler, which Telles isn't.
He's strong physically and mentally, and his technique and attacking contribution is improving.
But it's this idea that he's rubbish and just a tackle machine is a nonsense, as evidenced by the fact that few Premier League RBs are actually creating better attacking numbers.
Let's also not forget that this is a player who is quick, and strong with good stamina and work rate and who is aggressive. Telles for example has no pace, and it makes him a much worse full back for that.
AWB is also a willing and improving dribbler, which Telles isn't.
He's strong physically and mentally, and his technique and attacking contribution is improving.
You're a living legend. It's thanks to Lord Ekeke we can all learn to understand how teams actually work. Praise Lord Ekeke for bestowing his wisdom upon us.
Because AWB's output is below the average? You asked for the numbers from the best fullback's but he's way behind them. Telles has more assists than AWB does, by the way.
As to your second point, I think that's an incredibly reductive way of analysing a fullback's overall contribution to the attack. A fecking blind man could see that Shaw is integral to the way we play football and attack despite him having lower numbers in terms of output than Wan-Bissaka but you're here telling me that the numbers are the be-all and end-all. I can't imagine we'll ever agree if that's how you see football to be honest.
How so?
You're beating about the bush needlessly.
Who are the best attack right backs? It's a fairly simple question. Who are they and since you say they have much better numbers, it shouldn't be hard for you to state their names and their g+a.
Secondly, what is the way to measure a fullback's attacking contribution? Let's agree that goals and assists are pure nonsense that can't tell you anything. So what's the right metric to use? Surely there must be an objective method of evaluation?
I really enjoy watching this guy develop.
3 years as a FB and he plays like this. We either watch an attacking RB that can't defend or a defensive fullback that struggles to attack.
Considering Ole values Shaw, a player with primarily great defensive ability with an attacking ability that only ever was shown after 6 years here on average- it gives me hope wan Bissaka will be great since he he hasnt even been here 2 years yet and plays on our squad weakest side.
3 years as a FB and he plays like this. We either watch an attacking RB that can't defend or a defensive fullback that struggles to attack.
Considering Ole values Shaw, a player with primarily great defensive ability with an attacking ability that only ever was shown after 6 years here on average- it gives me hope wan Bissaka will be great since he he hasnt even been here 2 years yet and plays on our squad weakest side.
Well that's the thing with football, isn't it? For all the stats available nowadays, we're making immediate judgements about what we see in the moment with our eyes. It's why if you didn't watch the game and just read numbers on the internet you'd have the misplaced idea that Wan-Bissaka is more effective for us going forward than Shaw is, which he obviously isn't. I watch football often, and I'm able to draw the conclusion that Shaw offers more to United going forward than Wan-Bissaka. From my point of view, that's all there is to it. Why must there be an objective method of evaluation? And if that's all you want from life, why on earth would you bother posting on a forum driven by subjective claims and debates?
For me, an effective fullback (going forward) is expected to add an extra dimension to a team's attacking phase of play, is confident in possession and has great positional sense (and is willing to bust a gut to get back in the event of an opposition's counter-attack). I think Wan-Bissaka has displayed glimpses of ability in building sustained attacks but he's got a long, long way to go. We're trying to build a great team and so far he's often been a weak link and too often our right side has been ineffectual (not entirely his fault given we lack a proper right-winger but he shares responsibility).
Okay, agree to disagree.
It's the rprice tag that gets me everytime. If he came through the youth ransk I would be happy enough with him, but the fact that he is techniqual inferior to a lot of the 'big' clubs right backs and we paid £50 million for him makes it difficult to accept his faults.
Don't get me wrong, he is better than Darmian and Young, but those guys didn't cost £50 million and still nowhere near that price combined.
Don't get me wrong, he is better than Darmian and Young, but those guys didn't cost £50 million and still nowhere near that price combined.
Like how are people complaining about this guy? The guy literally had MOTM performances recently and keeps world class inverted forwards doing shit all 
Just because we dont have a good striker people blame anyone they see, complaining about not creating a chance for a striker that doesnt make movement.
Just because we dont have a good striker people blame anyone they see, complaining about not creating a chance for a striker that doesnt make movement.
The price was high for a mainly defensive fullback thats for sure. But he came in along with Maguire and was very important for us to have a fairly good defensive record last season after having the 10th best defensive record in the league. Maguire wouldnt have fixed that alone, AWB played a major part
And now this season we have a worse defensive record than 2 seasons ago before we signed them. Imagine how bad it would be without AWB severely limited the wingers down the left side.
Does that mean he was worth £50 million? no I dont think so. But his ball winning is a major contributing factor to us not having a worse than 10th best defensive record in the league. Its a bit scary to think how our defence would get on without a defensive minded RB like AWB starting most of our games. It would clearly be one of the weaker defences in the league
He played a nice ball into Rashford. He would have had the assist for Pogba against Pool too. I think he's really improved his attacking play and ball retention.
When he's on the ball he recognises the play to be made a lot of the time (watch his body language, his foot on the ball). He's just so limited technically that even the simple play is a challenge for him at times and he ends up looking like he doesn't know what he's trying to doing. My evaluation is based on judging his offensive football brain as a RB and his technical ability as a footballer.
Hmmm...
He's very hesitant when he approaches the final third, that's for sure. He's certainly unsure of himself, which I guess could be construed as a lack of confidence in his own ability. I just think it's hard to separate someone's footballing intelligence (or brain) from their actual ability on the ball. I guess what I'm saying, is that it's hard to really assess his footballing brain when he doesn't' actually put it into practice. Basically, how can you say he has a good footballing brain when he doesn't actually show that?
I think It's kind of a vague thing to say, personally.
He sometimes pulls off good pieces of play on the ball though (something I should have mentioned already), it's not like nothing ever comes off for him. There's a fair amount of him failing to pull off what would have be a neat play as well. I understand your reluctance though as you feel more evidence is needed than what I'm presenting.
Yeah, I don't want to make out like the guy has never put a decent ball in the box in his life or anything. He has had moments.
But the point I was making, is that I see his reluctance to cross the ball and really attack the wide areas as a lack of confidence in his own ability, AND a sign that he doesn't really know what to do when he's actually there. The proverbial rabbit in the headlights type of thing. This is why I see his "footballing brain" and technical ability interlinked.
Not to say he can't improve in that area, of course. But at this moment in time, he is lacking.
And that's not to mention his poor positioning...
Arsenal 0:0 Man Utd
He was good today. A shame that Cavani couldn't finish his lovely cross.
I thought he was good today, apart from the yellow card and the unnecessary challenge on Willian just outside the box. He looked unusually comfortable on the ball and put in a peach of a cross that should have won us the game. More of the attacking side please AWB
He's not a footballer. Be happy to sacrifice 20% in one v ones versus someone who can pass and cross.
Part of me wishes we had Max Aaron's or Lamptey so we can let in goals from the right all season. Mane, Neto Sterling and now Arsenal not scoring from the right
His crossing is getting better too.
His crossing is getting better too.
You mean like the assist he should have had?
Made a hell of a lot of tackles today and he's making real progress going forward. Great to see him getting in the box and he created a few chances.
His best game in ages. Made ton of important defensive plays and was rock solid in the back. Few silly fouls though.
Voted him MOTM.
Voted him MOTM.
He was good albeit a bit iffy defensively.
He had a well rounded game vs Aston Villa not too long ago whilst keeping most of the attackers he faces quiet.
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