[ThehatchetMan]

I personally think AWB is an excellent player and has been a great signing for us. Does nobody remember how useless Ashley Young was in contrast? Was just as bad going forward in his latter years and couldnt defend either.

The one area of his defensive game which he does need to improve on is his heading and general awareness. However I'd say that in contrast to last season; he's certainly alot more alert and doesn't have as many lapses in concentration. But as another poster mentioned above, he is a liability when it comes to defending crosses at the back post.

What disappoints me most though on here is seeing all this criticism in relation to his attacking ability. Don't get me wrong I agree that he's not the best on the ball or going forward. However I don't feel that's his responsibility either and he shouldn't be relied upon in that sense.

I don't see anyone criticising rashford or greenwood every week for their lack of tracking back and poor defending; so why is that all we focus on for AWB.

From a defensive pov he is one of the best right backs in the world in my opinion.

 

[ritchieDL]

Can't bother to read the whole tread but I'v been seeing somehting for a couple of games now and can't wrap my head around it. Why don't they play the ball more often to AWB in offensive positions? Lost count this game (and other games before this one aswell) were AWB is totally free on his side where one of the CB's could pass it to him in an attacking position or prior to that, pogba/bruno/fred whoever. It looks like someone has told them to not pass it to him. Anyone else reacted to this?

 

[Hammondo]

How are attacking fullbacks progressive?

Who's gonna cover them?

 

[MUFC9032]

AWB mins after international break:
17 Oct - Newcastle (a) - 90 mins
20 Oct - PSG (a) - 90 mins
24 Oct - Chelsea (h) - 90 mins
28 Oct - RB Leipzig (h) - 81 mins
1 Nov - Arsenal (h) - 90 mins

Expecting AWB to play this volume of games, while our team is heavily skewed to the left of the pitch, is unreasonable. Expected to see some rotation with either Williams or Tuanzebe (our only realistic RB options?), but imo no surprise to see some defensive mistakes creep in yday.

 

[Revan]

I don't think I have actively disliked a United player as much as him. He is just a tackler masqueraded as a football player. Diabolic positioning, useless in the air, cannot even run at full speed while the other team is attacking, and treats the ball like it is a fecking grenade.

 

[Renegade]

People suggesting RCB are well off the mark with their assessment of him. His strength is the recovery challenge on the outside. He wouldn’t be in a position to be making them playing centrally. His not great in the air, neither is his positioning so he wouldn’t look good playing RCB.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

People suggest RCB are well off the mark with their assessment of him. His strength is the recovery challenge on the outside. He wouldn’t be in a position to be making them playing centrally. His not great in the air, neither is his positioning so he wouldn’t look good playing RCB.

That's an understatement... he is shocking in the air.

Not only to actually challenge/win the ball in the air, but if he does head it it'll basically go anywhere due to his 50pence heading.

 

[Khalif_20]

Are you kidding? His positioning is terrible, and he constantly misjudges crosses into the box.

He's a fantastic recovery tackler, but he wouldn't have to make so many tackles if he was in the right place to begin with.

A back 3 with him would be suicidal.

Defensive awareness and positioning naturally improve with experience, that's why many CBs still remain key players well into their mid thirties. AWB is already good in this aspect but can become superb positionally.

He's a top 5 tackler in history of football (#1 currently), fast, strong, brave, hard-working. Unfortunately I doubt AWB can improve his attacking game much and you simply can't be a top club with a defensive fullback, that's why RCB is ideal for him.

He has none of the attributes to be a RCB.

Mejbri isn’t a DM and has been serving up complete shit in the u23s anyway. He’s nowhere near the first team.

Nor are Mengi and Axel anywhere near being out starting CBs.

What a ridiculous post.

No offense but this is nonsense. AWB has every attribute for a wide centre back at world class level, except positioning which can massively improve over time as I've already elaborated above.

Imagine Cannavaro or Puyol - but more athletic - playing the right centre back in a back three, that's the sort quality AWB can achieve if he's coached properly.

Regarding they youngsters:

Mejbri is generally considered as top 3 or 4 midfield wonderkid in Europe, along with Camavinga (Rennes), Cherki (Lyon) and Bellingham (Dortmund), while Mengi is already touted as future United captain by U23s coaches and observers.

 

[Jippy]

Defensive awareness and positioning naturally improve with experience, that's why many CBs still remain key players well into their mid thirties. AWB is already good in this aspect but can become superb positionally.

He's a top 5 tackler in history of football (#1 currently), fast, strong, brave, hard-working. Unfortunately I doubt AWB can improve his attacking game much and you simply can't be a top club with a defensive fullback, that's why RCB is ideal for him.


No offense but this is nonsense. AWB has every attribute for a wide centre back at world class level, except positioning which can massively improve over time as I've already elaborated above.

Imagine Cannavaro or Puyol - but more athletic - playing the right centre back in a back three, that's the sort quality AWB can achieve if he's coached properly.

Regarding they youngsters:

Mejbri is generally considered as top 3 or 4 midfield wonderkid in Europe, along with Camavinga (Rennes), Cherki (Lyon) and Bellingham (Dortmund), while Mengi is already touted as future United captain by U23s coaches and observers.

What do you base that claim on?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Our fanbase don't really understand the game of football very much it seems. Because Wan Bissaka is a very good tackler they think he's an elite level player. He's not even close and thats why he's cut and ran from challenging for an England place and gone to play for Congo. He knows he's about 5th place in the pecking order.

Teams are actively leaving him in space and allowing him to have the ball. Just allow yourself to digest that. Teams want AWB to have the ball. How in the hell is that good enough for our club, let alone for £50m. I don't care if he's a fantastic slide tackler. That's literally all he is good at.

 

[Khalif_20]

What do you base that claim on?

Yes I realize it's a bold claim, but based on what I've seen - following both contemporary football and studying the history as well - I believe the only defenders with better tackles were (in no particular order):

Puyol, Lahm, Cannavaro, Chiellini, Stam.

Would you add any names to the list?

 

[Jippy]

Yes I realize it's a bold claim, but based on what I've seen - following both contemporary football and studying the history as well - I believe the only defenders with better tackles were (in no particular order):

Puyol, Lahm, Cannavaro, Chiellini, Stam.

Would you add any names to the list?

Ah, so this is based on your exhaustive research into the tackling abilities of defenders throughout history. You've studied hours and hours of footage of footballers around the globe to help us truly evaluate AWB' position in the pantheon of fullbacks.
You've really done that haven't you? That tireless, selfless work. You didn't just make it up on the hoof did you? All power to you Khalif, I am in awe of your dedication.

You have AWB as '#1 currently' though, yet the above are better?

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Thought it was interesting that Neville highlighted how bad he is on the ball, more or less called him and lesserly Shaw writeoffs in possession

 

[Bebestation]

I have never enjoyed watching a defensive minded fullback more than him.

Absolutely love him. He has a few things to improve on defensively and an attacking wise but considering his age I genuinely think he will make it.

Hardly deadwood for me and even if we buy an attacking minded RB I still wouldnt sell the lad because he does something that other players cannot do as well as him.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Thought it was interesting that Neville highlighted how bad he is on the ball, more or less called him and lesserly Shaw writeoffs in possession

And he'd be spot on. They are a huge weakness in our game and it's about time fans realised it.

AWB can slide tackle Mbappe off the pitch a thousand times. Doesn't make him a good footballer. His skillset is more suited to a team fighting relegation than a team trying to get back to winning titles.

 

[MadDogg]

Has anybody got a clip of the entire corner play that they scored from? The only ones I've seen start from when he's on the ball and pushing forward so I'm trying to figure out what happened before that. Normally AWB is the one who sits back during corners to protect us from being counter-attacked, which makes perfect sense since he's fast, amazing in 1v1's and poor in the air so wouldn't help much in an attacking sense. So did he start the play in that position and then moved forward when the ball broke out to him (in which case did he make a bad decision or was there plenty of time for somebody else to move to cover for him), or was Matic always the deepest player? Just trying to figure out the entire play as what happened simply didn't make sense.

 

[Tapori]

Has anybody got a clip of the entire corner play that they scored from? The only ones I've seen start from when he's on the ball and pushing forward so I'm trying to figure out what happened before that. Normally AWB is the one who sits back during corners to protect us from being counter-attacked, which makes perfect sense since he's fast, amazing in 1v1's and poor in the air so wouldn't help much in an attacking sense. So did he start the play in that position and then moved forward when the ball broke out to him (in which case did he make a bad decision or was there plenty of time for somebody else to move to cover for him), or was Matic always the deepest player? Just trying to figure out the entire play as what happened simply didn't make sense.

Matic comes forward to get involved in the short corner, but even so, you'd have to have better positioning for the corner.

 

[Devil may care]

Headless chicken stuff tonight.

 

[MattofManchester]

Can we have Rafael back? ‍

 

[Foxbatt]

Has anybody got a clip of the entire corner play that they scored from? The only ones I've seen start from when he's on the ball and pushing forward so I'm trying to figure out what happened before that. Normally AWB is the one who sits back during corners to protect us from being counter-attacked, which makes perfect sense since he's fast, amazing in 1v1's and poor in the air so wouldn't help much in an attacking sense. So did he start the play in that position and then moved forward when the ball broke out to him (in which case did he make a bad decision or was there plenty of time for somebody else to move to cover for him), or was Matic always the deepest player? Just trying to figure out the entire play as what happened simply didn't make sense.

Mata and Bruno as much as to blame for the feck up. Yes there is no business for AWB to be in that postion.
This is what happend. AWB and Mata combined and AWB crossed the ball and it was headed out for a corner. AWB was back tracking to his defensive position and Matic had run into the edge of their box. Axel and Maguire was just arriving into their box. None of our players was ready when Bruno and Mata combined to take a short corner. AWB had not reached even close to the centre line when they took the short corner. We had only three players in the box. Martial, Rashford and DVB who was just arriving.
To me the fault lies with Bruno and Mata. They should have never taken that short corner because it was too quick. They should have never passed it back to AWB. When the whole thing started Matic was goalside of Ba. By a decent bit. But as the game moved Ba started moving forward and Matic started moving to the right. When AWB received the ball he had the time and space to put a cross in. He decided against it and tried to beat his man outside and he failed to put in a cross. He fell as he put in the cross. Before he decided to beat his man he could have passed it back to Matic who was free and behind him. Matic was at the edge of the box and as the short corner was taken he moved back.
To me the mistake Matic made was not bringing back AWB. There was no way Matic was going to beat Ba to the ball as it was not a pass but a clearance up field.

 

[Mickson]

I got slaughtered in another thread for being a wum when I said that AWB is useless (in that sense he won't contribute in 90% of the games) and here is another example of how poor he is. The man doesn't think football. He can tackle but that's about it. Poor positional sense, stupid decisions (the first goal, his fault, we don't even do that in Sunday League), can't head the ball, no timing in his headers, can't pass, can't cross, can't dribble. 50 million pounds down the drain. The most stupid thing is Ole buying him.

 

[SSSSnake]

Our fullbacks has been an issue for almost a decade. Shaw in all fairness has been consistent this season but to get to the next level we need so much more. We struggle to break teams down and look very one dimensional. We need our full backs to stretch the opposition and get some crosses in.

 

[patty123]

Yes I realize it's a bold claim, but based on what I've seen - following both contemporary football and studying the history as well - I believe the only defenders with better tackles were (in no particular order): Puyol, Lahm, Cannavaro, Chiellini, Stam.
AWB is already good in this aspect but can become superb positionally.
He's a top 5 tackler in history of football
Would you add any names to the list?

You say you're ranking on AWB as the number #1 tackler in history is based on " what I've seen - following both contemporary football and studying the history as well" you do know the art of defending and tackling was a thing pre 2005, so you cant make such a dumbass statement and then only use recent history to justify you absurd statement.

So if you are using history and making such wild claims like awb being the best ever, you have to cover the game from the start and not the yrs to suit you're point so, Costacurta, Alessandro Nesta, Daniel Passarella, Rjikaard, Beckenbauer Baresi, Maldini, there's ones that the ones you name are not good enough to carry their jock strap never mind be mentioned in the same breath as them and awb doesnt even get to clean theirs.

 

[Khalif_20]

Ah, so this is based on your exhaustive research into the tackling abilities of defenders throughout history. You've studied hours and hours of footage of footballers around the globe to help us truly evaluate AWB' position in the pantheon of fullbacks.
You've really done that haven't you? That tireless, selfless work. You didn't just make it up on the hoof did you? All power to you Khalif, I am in awe of your dedication.

You have AWB as '#1 currently' though, yet the above are better?

Costacurta, Alessandro Nesta, Daniel Passarella, Rjikaard, Beckenbauer Baresi, Maldini

Please, excuse the poor wording in my post - English is my third language. What I meant by '#1 currently' is best tackler among currently active defenders. Puyol, Lahm, Cannavaro are all retired, and Chiellini is well past it.

To be perfectly honest Stam in only there because I felt compelled to have a United legend in the list, AWB is a superior tackler and makes it into top 5 with those mentioned above.

Regarding the likes of Nesta or Maldini: we're discussing tackling as an isolated attribute or skill, not the whole package. So Maldini for example is indeed a superior overall defender, the best in history most likely, but not a better tackler than Puyol or Cannavaro...or AWB.

 

[Foxbatt]

It was AWB that costs us the first goal. Simple. He has no business getting involved in the attack at that moment in time. His job was the last defender. Not trying to be a right winger during a corner and especially when both our CBs are in the opposition box and no cover in defense.

 

[Martialfc]

I personally think AWB is an excellent player and has been a great signing for us. Does nobody remember how useless Ashley Young was in contrast? Was just as bad going forward in his latter years and couldnt defend either.

The one area of his defensive game which he does need to improve on is his heading and general awareness. However I'd say that in contrast to last season; he's certainly alot more alert and doesn't have as many lapses in concentration. But as another poster mentioned above, he is a liability when it comes to defending crosses at the back post.

What disappoints me most though on here is seeing all this criticism in relation to his attacking ability. Don't get me wrong I agree that he's not the best on the ball or going forward. However I don't feel that's his responsibility either and he shouldn't be relied upon in that sense.

I don't see anyone criticising rashford or greenwood every week for their lack of tracking back and poor defending; so why is that all we focus on for AWB.

From a defensive pov he is one of the best right backs in the world in my opinion.

I agree completely. Hardly a bad thing to have a RB who is brilliant at defending is it? Let the RM do the attacking. The problem is we don’t have a RM atm we have Greenwood who is a striker playing there because we have to somehow shoe horn Rashford and Martial into the team and they both aren’t Centre forwards!

 

[Lassitude42]

Let's see how AWB does with some proper coaching

 

[Adam-Utd]

He needs better coaching to teach him positioning and timing of the runs.

I don't like how we use him in the build up play. Often he ends up standing right up at the RW position and our RW goes roaming.

He isn't good with the ball in 1v1 situations, he should be overlapping at speed and being used as a dummy runner rather than the actual playmaker with the ball.

I don't get why our RW is always coming inside and blocking up the space for Bruno and the strikers. I think back to how Valencia + Rafael used to dovetail on the right wing, none of them were particularly skilful or good 1v1 but they worked well together as a pair.

I don't mind Shaw pushing up higher as he can actually pass/keep possession and carry the ball well, but AWB should be playing more defensive of the 2 fullbacks.

 

[FahadiHossein]

I feel that both him and Shaw are traditional full-backs, who tend to be weaker in bombarding forward and are not as aggressive when running into space.
This is especially that we enjoy playing through the middle with inside forwards and if they both stay static all the time, they don't draw the opponents' full-backs away enough and allow our inside forwards to run into the box.

Now I understand what Sancho was for. He would play as a winger to draw the full-backs away.

 

[yfoFC]

I'm perplexed as to how people can blame him for that first goal when he was clearly involved in the corner routine and out in a good cross that was unfortunate to be cut out.

The others should have seen him high up the pitch and organized themselves better

I feel it comes down to a lack of leadership at the back and no one stepping up to handle the responsibility and that's mostly down to Maguire

I cannot imagine a team that has VvD on their roster will concede that kinda cheap goal

 

[Foxbatt]

I'm perplexed as to how people can blame him for that first goal when he was clearly involved in the corner routine and out in a good cross that was unfortunate to be cut out.

The others should have seen him high up the pitch and organized themselves better

I feel it comes down to a lack of leadership at the back and no one stepping up to handle the responsibility and that's mostly down to Maguire

I cannot imagine a team that has VvD on their roster will concede that kinda cheap goal

Because he only got involved by not getting back to his position which is the last defender on corners. Yes Bruno and Mata are to blame as well for getting him involved. It is like passing to a team mate when he is in a bad position. All our defence was up for the cross from the corner. They looked puzzled as to what was happening. AWB had the opportunity to cross the ball when he got it or to pass it to Matic and get back to his position. He made the worst decision to try to go outside the opposing player and messing his cross.
As for Maguir he was already up for the corner waiting for the cross. If AWB had even crossed the ball when he first got it and if it is a decent cross Maguire may have been able to head it. No one is going to think on a set piece like that AWB is going to feck it up.

As for the others they were further forward of AWB all waiting for the cross which never came. I have no idea how Maguire can organise a defense or seen him high up the pitch when they were all up for the corner or the cross which never came. To give credit Axel saw it and started sprinting back but he was too far forward. At this level of football it is a cardinal mistake to do what he did.

 

[yfoFC]

Because he only got involved by not getting back to his position which is the last defender on corners. was too far forward.

Wow, so a player that works a short corner and sends in a good cross which is then cut out and immediately pinned forward is to be expected to teleport back to his original position of being the last defender while the other defenders who saw him working the short corner and so know there is no one at the back should be left off the hook? Okay.

 

[Foxbatt]

Wow, so a player that works a short corner and sends in a good cross which is then cut out and immediately pinned forward is to be expected to teleport back to his original position of being the last defender while the other defenders who saw him working the short corner and so know there is no one at the back should be left off the hook? Okay.

He is not the player or players responsible for the short corner. His job is to be the last man in defense.
How on earth can the two defenders who are in the box to head the ball from the corner be responsible for his cock up? They were forward of AWB. He should have gone back to his position as soon as he conceded the corner. That's his job. Not to get involved in a short corner. Yes Bruno and Mara are responsible too for passing to him. He has opportunities to cross the ball or to pass the ball yet he didn't and he tried to go outside of the opposition player and messed it up. It's not his job to be on the right wing when we take a corner.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

It was AWB that costs us the first goal. Simple. He has no business getting involved in the attack at that moment in time. His job was the last defender. Not trying to be a right winger during a corner and especially when both our CBs are in the opposition box and no cover in defense.

Clearly showing our players are not coached at all, leaving it all to the player's discretion.

"Lads, go out there and do your best".

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Similar to McT, Bissaka is most useful in the big games where we need him to stop their dangerous attacks. Vs shit teams and not for the first time, generally most games, he's useless. Took ages to get back too despite his speed. That's the problem when he's attacking. So maybe bench him when we're facing the weaker teams.. or at least tell him to focus more on defending with maybe Axel/Lindelof license to join in attacks more.

Problem is.. we don't really have any other good attacking RB. Williams is inconsistent and getting unreliable. I'm tempted us to use Axel and TFM, but then Axel is best as CBs, the position we're lacking and I'm not sure if TFM is really good in attacking... surely won't be worse than AWB no?

 

[Matt851]

Defensive awareness and positioning naturally improve with experience, that's why many CBs still remain key players well into their mid thirties. AWB is already good in this aspect but can become superb positionally.

He's a top 5 tackler in history of football (#1 currently), fast, strong, brave, hard-working. Unfortunately I doubt AWB can improve his attacking game much and you simply can't be a top club with a defensive fullback, that's why RCB is ideal for him.


No offense but this is nonsense. AWB has every attribute for a wide centre back at world class level, except positioning which can massively improve over time as I've already elaborated above.

Imagine Cannavaro or Puyol - but more athletic - playing the right centre back in a back three, that's the sort quality AWB can achieve if he's coached properly.

Regarding they youngsters:

Mejbri is generally considered as top 3 or 4 midfield wonderkid in Europe, along with Camavinga (Rennes), Cherki (Lyon) and Bellingham (Dortmund), while Mengi is already touted as future United captain by U23s coaches and observers.

Is this a parody account?

 

[united_99]

Is this a parody account?

Yep! Proof is this account suggested in another thread we / the next manager should build the team around Pogba!

 

[Web of Bissaka]

AWB mins after international break:
17 Oct - Newcastle (a) - 90 mins
20 Oct - PSG (a) - 90 mins
24 Oct - Chelsea (h) - 90 mins
28 Oct - RB Leipzig (h) - 81 mins
1 Nov - Arsenal (h) - 90 mins

Expecting AWB to play this volume of games, while our team is heavily skewed to the left of the pitch, is unreasonable. Expected to see some rotation with either Williams or Tuanzebe (our only realistic RB options?), but imo no surprise to see some defensive mistakes creep in yday.

Don't worry, he won't be involved in international football = free 10-12 days rest.
I was hoping Ole will rested him vs RBL, alas. TFM is enough for that game.
Other than the RBL game, we definitely AWB in all the other games... minus again the most recent IB game.

His defensive mistakes is not because of fatigue.

 

[Matt851]

Similar to McT, Bissaka is most useful in the big games where we need him to stop their dangerous attacks. Vs shit teams and not for the first time, generally most games, he's useless. Took ages to get back too despite his speed. That's the problem when he's attacking. So maybe bench him when we're facing the weaker teams.. or at least tell him to focus more on defending with maybe Axel/Lindelof license to join in attacks more.

Problem is.. we don't really have any other good attacking RB. Williams is inconsistent and getting unreliable. I'm tempted us to use Axel and TFM, but then Axel is best as CBs, the position we're lacking and I'm not sure if TFM is really good in attacking... surely won't be worse than AWB no?

I am confused about the usage if williams, given the telles signing i am assuming he is meant to be back up for rb but seems like tfm has moved ahead of him. Giving williams a big new contract onlt for him then to fall to third in the pecking order is so very us

 

[yfoFC]

He is not the player or players responsible for the short corner. His job is to be the last man in defense.
How on earth can the two defenders who are in the box to head the ball from the corner be responsible for his cock up? They were forward of AWB. He should have gone back to his position as soon as he conceded the corner. That's his job. Not to get involved in a short corner. Yes Bruno and Mara are responsible too for passing to him. He has opportunities to cross the ball or to pass the ball yet he didn't and he tried to go outside of the opposition player and messed it up. It's not his job to be on the right wing when we take a corner.

I give up, to blame the boy here is just something I fail to comprehend. It's not even worth discussing

So now, taking a short corner is a bad thing cuz our normal corners have been delivering the goods for us right?

Let's just keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result like the fools we are