A position change wouldn't be the best idea either probably..
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A position change wouldn't be the best idea either probably..
I feel like since lockdown the coaches have been really trying to get him to push forward more and improve his attacking attributes, unfortunately so far it only seems to have ruined his confidence and now his defending is far less rock solid than it was at the start.
Saved us at the back with an incredible block
He obviously needs to improve this but its slightly misleading when we've had a left winger transitioning to striker this season and certainly not the best target for crosses.
Also Ward-Prowse on the defenders chart
He makes incredible last minute blocks and tackles which have earned him rave reviews. But it is incredibly frustrating to watch him kill our attacks. He is so predictable and rarely takes on the opponent when it looks like he might win that battle. His dribbling style is relaxed, akin to Pogba, in an area where we need more explosiveness and incisiveness of delivery.
He obviously needs to improve this but its slightly misleading when we've had a left winger transitioning to striker this season and certainly not the best target for crosses.
Also Ward-Prowse on the defenders chart
Was about to post whether it makes sense to push AWB to partner Maguire while we look for a more attacking RB/RWB, would have loved to push TFM in that position...
This is a problem with our system and the players we're using, not all down to AWB. We play with a striker who isnt always in the best striker positions and doesn't get on the end of crosses, there have been few from any player not just AWB. If we had kept Lukaku I'm sure the numbers would be different
I called it early doors even as far back as last October. You can't fault his tackling and defending overall. Okay he does sometimes get caught out of position but most fullbacks do to be fair to him. He's not alone there at all and Trent gets caught out quite a bit too.
However on the ball he looks every bit a Crystal Palace player with all due respect. I don't see a long term future for him at this club as he's simply not a good enough footballer for where we want to be. I think within 12 to 18 months he will be struggling to hold down the rightback spot and within 2 years I think Laird will be ahead of him personally.
However on the ball he looks every bit a Crystal Palace player with all due respect. I don't see a long term future for him at this club as he's simply not a good enough footballer for where we want to be. I think within 12 to 18 months he will be struggling to hold down the rightback spot and within 2 years I think Laird will be ahead of him personally.
That's a strong claim.
Do you think he will eventually move to a CB, if not with us then maybe another team?
Well you are being generous his defending seem to have deteriorated as the season has gone by and he seem to bit hesitant after the re-start and Let's not even talk about his attacking most of us could see his limitations from mile ,how our scouts and our manager missed or wilfully ignored is beyond me.
You can't measure the issues we have with him in end products things like crosses, key passes, assists etc.
It's in the buildup, speed of play, passing, movement, technique where he's is falling short at the moment.
It doesn't help that Greenwood isn't really a right winger and isn't particularly helping us progress on the right side either. He needs to build a partnership.
Also he's not a centre back, I don't know why people seem to associate centre backs with making loads of tackles.
It's in the buildup, speed of play, passing, movement, technique where he's is falling short at the moment.
It doesn't help that Greenwood isn't really a right winger and isn't particularly helping us progress on the right side either. He needs to build a partnership.
Also he's not a centre back, I don't know why people seem to associate centre backs with making loads of tackles.
That's actually pretty mad. How does it compare to the likes of Liverpool and City? I imagine Liverpool's would be quite high due to how involved their fullbacks are.
This is a problem with our system and the players we're using, not all down to AWB. We play with a striker who isnt always in the best striker positions and doesn't get on the end of crosses, there have been few from any player not just AWB. If we had kept Lukaku I'm sure the numbers would be different
Still, god damn, our highest crosser only has 14 and isn't even at the club any more?!
He's not good enough in the air to be a centre back. Also if you let Smalling go because he's poor on the ball you can't then play AWB who is just as bad if not worse.
I think he will be struggling personally if Laird continues the way he has. That lad is so cool on the ball.
Martial has had 3 headed efforts this season. 3
Rashford is the best of our forwards with 6 headed attempts this season
AWB actually provides more crosses that find a teammate than Ricardo Pereira (0.4 to 0.3) and the same amount as Kyle Walker and has miles less crosses that dont find a teammate compared to some other players.
Robertson for example has 4.8 per 90 mins that dont find a teammate and 1.1 that do
Rashford is the best of our forwards with 6 headed attempts this season
AWB actually provides more crosses that find a teammate than Ricardo Pereira (0.4 to 0.3) and the same amount as Kyle Walker and has miles less crosses that dont find a teammate compared to some other players.
Robertson for example has 4.8 per 90 mins that dont find a teammate and 1.1 that do
It's not just headers. You can cut back on the ground too like the Liverpool two often do.
Also it's not just his final ball. His general play and control isn't good enough. He gives the ball away a lot with sloppy passes and touches. He's just bang average lower half of the table player who is superb at tackling. We got absolutely rinsed by Palace.
City's is dominated by KDB with 44 and 26 of them are corners. Next is Mahrez with 12 and 9 of them are corners. Bernardo Silva with 9 and 0 corners.
Fullbacks? Zinchenko 8, Mendy 6, Walker and Cancelo 5
For Liverpool its completely different with 52 from TAA and 28 from corners, Robertson 26 with 6 from corners and then next is down to Salah with 6 and 3 of them from corners
Hell of a load more than ours then.
Bloody hell, you keep throwing that stats about it but crossing is only one small part of full back's attacking play these days. Importance of full back in attack is his linking up play with which you get one more midfielder basically. And AWB is bad in it and will not be better because his skill on the ball is awful.
Why is Shaw so important for us? Because he offers support to midfielders. He can pass, control ball, play one-twos, keep the ball...
Awb is excellent defensive fb but that is it.
This was why I did not want him. How can we be having this conversation after spending 50m on a fullback? The same with the Lukaku purchase. You don't spend that much on a player with such glaring weaknesses. Anyway, that's water under the bridge. We hav a lot of work to do with him. That blind cross was just him all over.
I think the performances of AWB and Williams have been the two biggest reasons why our build up play has dropped off a cliff in the last few games. Forget his statistical output, his offensive postioning just hasn't been anywhere near good enough.
I don't actually have an issue with his control of the ball and dribbling, his style is ungainly but more often than not he'll get past his man in a 1 on 1.
I actually think his poor positioning makes Greenwood's job a lot harder as well, because the space that should be created on the right flank by intelligent fullback runs simply isn't being created. Greenwood often takes up intelligent spaces in the right inside channel, but AWB needs to do his part to ensure Greenwood can receive the ball in space on the half turn.
With all that said he's had a good season, but he absolutely has to improve his positional play soon.
I don't actually have an issue with his control of the ball and dribbling, his style is ungainly but more often than not he'll get past his man in a 1 on 1.
I actually think his poor positioning makes Greenwood's job a lot harder as well, because the space that should be created on the right flank by intelligent fullback runs simply isn't being created. Greenwood often takes up intelligent spaces in the right inside channel, but AWB needs to do his part to ensure Greenwood can receive the ball in space on the half turn.
With all that said he's had a good season, but he absolutely has to improve his positional play soon.
You cant play from the back if this guy starts every game. Also our build up will always be slow as everything will always go through the middle.
He is young but I just dont see him as a caliber of a player that we need for that position.
He is young but I just dont see him as a caliber of a player that we need for that position.
We need a replacement for him pronto. It's there to be seen he's so much out of his comfort zone going forward. He fannies about with the ball stops up play. We can't afford having a full back without those qualities if we are to challenge with the big boys. A top class RB should be high on the priority list!
Have you ever checked his aerial duels stats (or just seen him trying to win a duel in air)? If not, check them and think again if he would be a good CB (hint, they are in high thirties, compared to Lindelof who has a 65% win rate in more duels).
Also, his positioning would be totally exposed as a CB, while as a RB he can always use his ninja tackle even when he is caught out of position.
He would be absolutely an atrocious CB. Not even good enough for Championship. While as a RB despite his limitations he has his uses.
Ultimately, I think he is gonna be an utility player who cover both flanks when the first choice defenders are out.
I'm sorry but palace aka mid table team is his level, no team that wants to be the best in the world should have such a limited right back as their first choice rb, even if we didnt get sancho this summer but got a right back that is actually good on the ball it would make big positive difference to our attacking play, even with sancho in the side we still going to struggle breaking sides down as will continue playing narrow and a lack of tempo in our build up play with bissaka as our first choice fullback.
sigh.
He's not far off the truth there mate. The guy can tackle and that's about it.
He's a huge huge issue in our team as he's the one who usually gets the most space on the pitch when we have the ball. If we had a quality attack minded right back we'd be a far better team.
When we have our backs to the wall he's great. For everything else he's a waste of space.
The fans wanting him sold.
The way our fans laugh at the scouser and act like our guys are great fans makes me laugh
Dedication my arse.Shaw and Wan Bissaka need to be played as inverted fullbacks. Our CF isnt even a forward who would score from crosses naturally enough to made attacking fullbacks are part of our game.
RCB - LCB
AWB - CDM - Shaw
Pogba -Bruno
Greenwood- Martial - Rashford
Right now Pogba is playing too deep and is not able to get his foot on in the game. Bruno is playing very high up the pitch and is finding it hard to get in to a partnership with Pogba. Greenwood & Rashford are usually playing deeper and wider than Martial trying to create chances for Martial when they should be in the same line - with Martial dropping deeper creating chances for Rashford and Greenwood instead - like his one two chance created for Greenwood recently.AWB - CDM - Shaw
Pogba -Bruno
Greenwood- Martial - Rashford
Right now Ole is unnecessarily using a 4231 leaving our most creative/attacking players in defensive areas and our defensive players in attacking areas.
A 2-3-2-3 is all that's needed. Have attacking fullback options as an alternative; but selling AWB? Some people are just proper unsupportive and impatient for that instant success. Same fans who bought Mourinho to this club etc.
The team will continue to play narrow, struggle with breaking sides down, because of Wan Bissaka who is our first choice fullback. He isn't the reason for our slow build up play, our CB and midfield is. AWB attacks the space and do a dribble when possible, I don't know what people are watching.
So what now? Abandon AWB and sign another starter?
We're a laughing stock if we just forget AWB's development project. This is his first fecking season at a top club, can't let him improve? He is done as a player? Stupid fans are stupid.
The fans wanting him sold.
The way our fans laugh at the scouser and act like our guys are great fans makes me laugh
Shaw and Wan Bissaka need to be played as inverted fullbacks. Our CF isnt even a forward who would score from crosses naturally enough to made attacking fullbacks are part of our game.
RCB - LCBRight now Pogba is playing too deep and is not able to get his foot on in the game. Bruno is playing very high up the pitch and is finding it hard to get in to a partnership with Pogba. Greenwood & Rashford are usually playing deeper and wider than Martial trying to create chances for Martial when they should be in the same line - with Martial dropping deeper creating chances for Rashford and Greenwood instead - like his one two chance created for Greenwood recently.
AWB - CDM - Shaw
Pogba -Bruno
Greenwood- Martial - Rashford
Right now Ole is unnecessarily using a 4231 leaving our most creative/attacking players in defensive areas and our defensive players in attacking areas.
A 2-3-2-3 is all that's needed. Have attacking fullback options as an alternative; but selling AWB? Some people are just proper unsupportive and impatient for that instant success. Same fans who bought Mourinho to this club etc.
So to summarise he's a bit shit so he needs to stay back and just defend because that's all he's good at. Could have saved your time and just put that.
Perfectly happy with the defensive side of his game.
He will never be good enough with the ball. He's arguably one of the poorest players on the ball I have seen at the club in a while. He looks very much a Crystal Palace standard player to me.
Obviously he won't be sold. I'm not even advocating that he should be. I'm just pointing out he's a huge huge weakness in this team when we get the ball.
We dont struggle to break teams down though
A defender can be a defender. It's a perfectly vital tactic. City have their fullbacks in their half.
Could have saved your time.
Inverted or not, it doesn't change a thing. Wan-Bissaka himself is the problem, not his position.
The fans wanting him sold.
The way our fans laugh at the scouser and act like our guys are great fans makes me laugh
Shaw and Wan Bissaka need to be played as inverted fullbacks. Our CF isnt even a forward who would score from crosses naturally enough to made attacking fullbacks are part of our game.
RCB - LCBRight now Pogba is playing too deep and is not able to get his foot on in the game. Bruno is playing very high up the pitch and is finding it hard to get in to a partnership with Pogba. Greenwood & Rashford are usually playing deeper and wider than Martial trying to create chances for Martial when they should be in the same line - with Martial dropping deeper creating chances for Rashford and Greenwood instead - like his one two chance created for Greenwood recently.
AWB - CDM - Shaw
Pogba -Bruno
Greenwood- Martial - Rashford
Right now Ole is unnecessarily using a 4231 leaving our most creative/attacking players in defensive areas and our defensive players in attacking areas.
A 2-3-2-3 is all that's needed. Have attacking fullback options as an alternative; but selling AWB? Some people are just proper unsupportive and impatient for that instant success. Same fans who bought Mourinho to this club etc.
Buy Rojo/Blind and look for replacement
Buy Bailey and look for replacement
Buy Lindelof and look for replacement
Buy Maguire and look for a speedy partner
Buy AWB and look for a replacement
Buy Fred and look for a replacement
Buy Alexis and look for a replacement
Buy Lukaku and look for a replacement
Buy Dalot and look for a replacement
People in Scouting team OR whoever making these decisions should retrospect this.
It’s a shame we still need FB’s/CD/DM/ACM/RW after spending net 700M over last 7 years
City's fullbacks are some of the most attacking fullbacks on the planet. Walker, Cancelo n Mendy always bomb forwards mate. What city games do you watch?
Our attacks have broken down with AWB so much in recent months. He's an exceptional tackler I will give him that. One of the best I have ever seen. I don't rate any other parts of his game at all though and judging by the way this thread has turned over recent months I think plenty of others are starting to see it too.
He's technically very very average. Is that good enough for £50m? Is that good enough to get back to the top?
But Wan Bissaka was playing every game when we were playing well too. So what happened there?
Wan Bissaka's best period of the season was before we started acting like a proper football team with the arrival of Bruno. Basically we defended and hit teams on the break until we got Bruno. That suits him.
Since January we have become a proper team again and had far more of the ball in games and its exposed his lack of talent on the ball terribly for me.
What are you talking about? City and Liverpool both play 235 -
Liverpool play their fullbacks as part of their front 5 whilst City have their fullbacks as part of defensive midfield. Their front 5 consists of Sterling, Silva, aguero,De bruyne and Mahrez with silva and De Bryune working on the half spaces. The fullbacks play a protective role. Like wise I can see Pogba and Bruno Fernandes play a similar role.
We made improvements and I'm happy with the improvements we made - we dont need to go crazy and sacrifice everything by crying about this defenders attacking abilities when we have other weaknesses all across the squad to sort out first.
One of the most important thing is that Shaw isnt much better attacking wide than AWB either and even if he is - it's nothing worth shouting home about. I dont want us to use one defensive fullback on one side and an attacking minded one on the other because it makes our game lopsided. I like Shaw and AWB together because they are both defensive fullbacks and can work together if the tactics are made to balance that our and the creativity is made to come from somewhere else. I'm okay with attacking minded RB and LB being used when that is needed in our tactics on a day- however in stead of selling a world class defensive fullback Like AWB - I'd rather just wait and see how Laird develops so we have the mix of both an attacking and defensive fullbacks at our disposal.
Like why dont we have bloody patience.
I think Walker's attacking contribution is overrated, often I watch a Walker and he's super quick, can get to the by-line, but often his final ball is lacking.
I also wouldn't take Cancelo or Mendy over AWB and Shaw. Both have big defensive errors in them. Sometimes the grass is always greener, it's worth remembering AWB is still developing and nowhere near the finished article yet.
Is AWB good enough to get us to the top? Who knows. He's definitely good enough to form an important part of a rock solid defence. Playing with attacking full backs isnt the only way. Maybe we could compensate for AWB's weaknesses with more creativity in midfield?
I think next season will be crucial for him, and it's when I'll truly judge him. As for this season, as a 21 year old still finding his way in the PL, getting the big money move, all the expectation etc, I think he's done pretty well in fairness.
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