[A-man]

I understand what you are trying to say. He made 9 tackles against Saints which is a lot, but you've to note that 9 tackles isn't the norm for him. Last season, his average of 4 attempted per game was bettered by 7 other FBs that played more than 10 league games, and 30 fullbacks that played over 10 games attempted over 3 tackles per game, and that includes the popular names. Every other fullback tackles just like he does, but his accuracy is the reason why he is arguably the best in the business 1-on-1. Every fullback has to take on the winger, and his ability to win the ball consistently is what sets him apart from most. Another fullback - e.g Jordi Alba could have been able to get the job done, but he probably wouldn't have fared as well considering the amount of one-on-ones Wan-Bissaka faced with little cover against someone like Sofiane Boufal. What I'm saying in essence is that he tackled 9 times because he needed to and is able to, not because he wanted to. Another day, he attempts four.

Agree. And I have to add that I have never ever seen anyone perform so many clean tackles. He seldom fouls. Amazing precision.

I was thinking about who is the best FB from a defensive POV but gave up. All the best FB ay in the top teams like Barca, Real, Juve, Liverpool... etc. They don't really do much defending compared to for example a FB at United, so it is hard to say how good they are at that.

 

[Rozay]

Don’t think he’s been as bad going forward as made out tbh. He’s not good enough going forward to do it on the right all by himself, and that’s what happens when you put the useless Pereira on the wing in front of him.

 

[Brwned]

You are constantly ascribing to me points I did not made.

I didn't say that there is only one successful tactics, especially to win the CL. I said that tactical approaches do not evolve randomly but get widespread because they work. Tactics which work today require from fullbacks skills in possession and attacking. Possession based football works: it has won CL titles and has broken records in domestic leagues. 56% (Real) is a lot of possession against the best teams in Europe. Did I write above that ONLY posession-based football can win (CL) titles?

You prefer to concentrate entirely on the CL. Note that none of the top teams in the last seasons was happy to concede possesion and be dominated. Note also that this is the CL, you can't have 70% possession. City had on average 68 % possession last season in the PL, they can't have the same percentage in the CL. Their percentage is still too high and it can be explained with the quality of the opposition: weak groups and weak opposition in the last 16. Note that Spurs had 51% despite playing the likes of Barca, Dortmund, City, Ajax and Liverpool! They must be quite good at keeping possession to finish the tournament on 51%.

Note also that City's or Bayern's losses in the CL had little to do with possession. Muller and Aguero score those pens against respectively Atleti and Spurs and both teams would have probably went further in the competition. The thing with the CL is that chance and referee mistakes play a bigger role than in a league because there are only 6-7 more difficult games. Spurs were far from the 2nd best team in Europe last season. Same with Liverpool in 2005 and Chelsea in 2012.

Note also that any of these top teams in the CL enjoys a lot of possession in their domestic leagues. Liverpool had last season a higher percentage than United ever had under Fergie. It works.

Which of these top teams, which, as such, use tactics that works, relies on fullbacks whose main quality is to tackle and are average at keeping possession and going forward? Examples? Even Atleti (of all teams!) signed a RB whose main ability is contributing to attacks.

Tactics that works = the way to play football. It seems fairly clear that yes, you're saying yo be successful in modern football you need to play possession football. And therefore for Wan-Bissaka to be successful, he needs to be successful in that style. If that's not what you're trying to say then maybe you should state in simpler terms what you mean instead of focusing on winning mini arguments.

For example, I'll answer your question simply: Atletico Madrid have played with a defensive right back, and defensive football, very successfully throughout this period. Most top teams have played with attacking fullbacks, with obvious benefits, but they demonstrated quite clearly that you don't have to. Azpiliceuta was the best fullback in the league even when attacking fullbacks were fashionable.

If Wan Bissaka is a player who's great at tackling but average at everything else, he will be deemed an average player. Just as he would have 2 decades ago. If he is an excellent defensive player, all round, with an average attacking game, then he can be great in some systems and average in others, just as he would have decades ago. He wouldn't have been a very good wingback, which was obviously very popular around the turn of the century. The system he plays in will influence his performance which will then influence his rating, so yes there are fewer opportunities for defensive fullbacks to shine in their best roles.

Where we differ is that you think there are 0 opportunities for a defensive fullback to exist in the modern game, because you believe there is no flexibility in how teams can play. Either you play possession football or you're playing outdated football. Either you play attacking fullbacks or you can't play the right football effectively. I think that's plainly ridiculous and have no doubt there will be evidence over the next few years just as there is evidence over the last few years that you can play an alternative style and still be a successful, "modern" team. And I've no doubt you'll ignore it then too.

 

[Treble]

Tactics that works = the way to play football. It seems fairly clear that yes, you're saying yo be successful in modern football you need to play possession football. And therefore for Wan-Bissaka to be successful, he needs to be successful in that style. If that's not what you're trying to say then maybe you should state in simpler terms what you mean instead of focusing on winning mini arguments.

For example, I'll answer your question simply: Atletico Madrid have played with a defensive right back, and defensive football, very successfully throughout this period. Most top teams have played with attacking fullbacks, with obvious benefits, but they demonstrated quite clearly that you don't have to. Azpiliceuta was the best fullback in the league even when attacking fullbacks were fashionable.

If Wan Bissaka is a player who's great at tackling but average at everything else, he will be deemed an average player. Just as he would have 2 decades ago. If he is an excellent defensive player, all round, with an average attacking game, then he can be great in some systems and average in others, just as he would have decades ago. He wouldn't have been a very good wingback, which was obviously very popular around the turn of the century. The system he plays in will influence his performance which will then influence his rating, so yes there are fewer opportunities for defensive fullbacks to shine in their best roles.

Where we differ is that you think there are 0 opportunities for a defensive fullback to exist in the modern game, because you believe there is no flexibility in how teams can play. Either you play possession football or you're playing outdated football. Either you play attacking fullbacks or you can't play the right football effectively. I think that's plainly ridiculous and have no doubt there will be evidence over the next few years just as there is evidence over the last few years that you can play an alternative style and still be a successful, "modern" team. And I've no doubt you'll ignore it then too.

Tactics might be centered around possession and high pressing to different degrees. City and Liverpool are quite similar regarding high pressing but differ regarding possession. Tactical differences might vary so that it might be too simplistic to label the tactics of most top teams possession-based, but there is an overall shift towards having more possession and pressing higher up the pitch which favours fullbacks good on the ball who, as such, are press resistant and contribute in both phases of the game. That was my point and it was a trivial one. Chances for a defensive fullback to excell in a top team are not zero but are limited or, to put it differently, not particularly likely.

That said AWB is a very young player and I wouldn't put him in a box, e.g. defensive FB. Time is on his side, with coaching and patience he might develop into a FB good enough in both phases of the game. And I'm sure this is why we signed him, we think he can excel both in defence and attack.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Brwned]

Tactics might be centered around possession and high pressing to different degrees. City and Liverpool are quite similar regarding high pressing but differ regarding possession. Tactical differences might vary so that it might be too simplistic to label the tactics of most top teams possession-based, but there is an overall shift towards having more possession and pressing higher up the pitch which favours fullbacks good on the ball who, as such, are press resistant and contribute in both phases of the game. That was my point and it was a trivial one. Chances for a defensive fullback to excell in a top team are not zero but are limited or, to put it differently, not particularly likely.

That said AWB is a very young player and I wouldn't put him in a box, e.g. defensive FB. Time is on his side, with coaching and patience he might develop into a FB good enough in both phases of the game. And I'm sure this is why we signed him, we think he can excel both in defence and attack.

Thanks for the discussion.

I think he'll develop into a 3rd centre back if the trends of the day move in that direction, for the often random reasons they do

 

[Skills]

I think he'll develop into the next generation of deadwood our fans will love to hate.

 

[Brwned]

I think he'll develop into the next generation of deadwood our fans will love to hate.

How come? No doubt our fans have an appetite for player hatred but what puts him so high up the list?

 

[Skills]

How come? No doubt our fans have an appetite for player hatred but what puts him so high up the list?

English players are usually pretty high up the list and the fact that he'll never be as natural as Trent going forward will increasingly be a stick to beat him with, especially as the envy builds up.

This will accelerate when we get a new manager, as the fans jump on the new guys dick everything that came prior to him gets put in the trash can.

 

[meamth]

The great thing about AWB is, if his defending is on the top level, the only way he can improve is start be dangerous in attack.

He is 21, let that sink in.. by 25 he should perfected his game.

 

[Scriblerus]

Withdrawn from England squad with a back injury and a doubt for the Leicester game apparently.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Everybody is highlighting AWB's ability to tackle but I believe this is another sign that something is really wrong. Don't get me wrong I think he is doing really well but why does he need to make so many tackles? It is a sign that his positioning is not the best and that he has to cover for mistakes and holes around him.

The same can be said about DdG. His saves are fantastic and his reflexes have saved our arse time and time again. However, if his anticipation were better and our defense was better organized a lot of those would not be necessary.

 

[roonster09]

Everybody is highlighting AWB's ability to tackle but I believe this is another sign that something is really wrong. Don't get me wrong I think he is doing really well but why does he need to make so many tackles? It is a sign that his positioning is not the best and that he has to cover for mistakes and holes around him.

The same can be said about DdG. His saves are fantastic and his reflexes have saved our arse time and time again. However, if his anticipation were better and our defense was better organized a lot of those would not be necessary.

This is just a cliche, repeated by so many football purists. For all the Maldini quotes, he was master of sliding tackle.

AWB won most interceptions by a FB last season and second in the league among all the players. So he is winning the ball by tackling and also by reading the game.

 

[TheReligion]

Everybody is highlighting AWB's ability to tackle but I believe this is another sign that something is really wrong. Don't get me wrong I think he is doing really well but why does he need to make so many tackles? It is a sign that his positioning is not the best and that he has to cover for mistakes and holes around him.

The same can be said about DdG. His saves are fantastic and his reflexes have saved our arse time and time again. However, if his anticipation were better and our defense was better organized a lot of those would not be necessary.

What on earth

 

[Harry190]

Everybody is highlighting AWB's ability to tackle but I believe this is another sign that something is really wrong. Don't get me wrong I think he is doing really well but why does he need to make so many tackles? It is a sign that his positioning is not the best and that he has to cover for mistakes and holes around him.

The same can be said about DdG. His saves are fantastic and his reflexes have saved our arse time and time again. However, if his anticipation were better and our defense was better organized a lot of those would not be necessary.

I don't know if you've played football, most definitely have, but maybe not as a defender, but positioning is a bit of a myth if your teammates aren't disciplined enough. There's only so much a man can do on a football field. Wan-Bissaka's tackling is rather unique in the sense that he sets up the attacker for it. His success rate is absolutely insane. He gives them an alley to run when he knows exactly where they're gonna go and where he's gonna put his foot down.

The true measure of a defender is in how he handles one-on-ones and discipline.

 

[Isotope]

Said it before, his tackling technique reminds me of Mascherano. When they did it, you're scratching your head how could they get the ball so "clean".

 

[Yagami]

Anyone else find his chant disappointing?

With a name like his there's so much potential for more.

 

[bosnian_red]

The position is genuinely sorted out for as long as he stays fit. So good and Spurs down every team on that side. Also very good on the ball and going forward IMO.

 

[#07]

Thank God he got over his back ache before kick off cos I don't think we win that one without him.

 

[Solius]

Probably our most consistent player so far this season. Rarely puts a foot wrong.

 

[Andycoleno9]

From all our signings this year, he is the best for me. Not just how he plays but the fact that he doesn't do any mistake.
Our defensive style suits him.

 

[ash_86]

Said it before, his tackling technique reminds me of Mascherano. When they did it, you're scratching your head how could they get the ball so "clean".

Yup can see it

 

[Sylar]

Said it before, his tackling technique reminds me of Mascherano. When they did it, you're scratching your head how could they get the ball so "clean".

Oh thats a pretty good comparison.

 

[Zoo]

He’s a cracking player.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

solid again. just needs to take a few more chances with the ball.

 

[Devil may care]

Another strong defensive performance.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Another solid, typical performance. Pretty much what you come to expect with AWB. Nothing ever seems to get past him! Leicester’s left hand side had no joy at all.

 

[Adamsk7]

He’s an absolute beast. Best defensive full back in the league bar none. Still could do with improving his attacking output but I think a decent partner down the right would help.

the fact that our three signings under Ole are our best three players gives me some hope our current management team know what they are doing

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Didn't give Gray or Maddison a sniff.

 

[kiristao]

Had a very good game again. It's insane how good he is in 1 v 1 situations. Did decently well going forward as well. One of the best signings of recent times.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Thought he was fantastic today.

His attacking and dribbling skills are coming on a lot too! He looks much more comfortable.

 

[DocRockter]

Best player in the league right now.. No mistakes, no rush, no fatigue.. Just dominance.

 

[redshaw]

Was a relief to see him on the team sheet. Really pleased with his start at OT.

Plus he does a decent job in advanced positions and should improve further.

 

[Bobski]

His attacking play needs a lot of work, very impressive defensive player but has too many poor moments on the ball at this time.

 

[Skills]

His attacking play needs a lot of work, very impressive defensive player but has too many poor moments on the ball at this time.

What happens if we get a proper attacking manager next, who wants full-backs who are excellent in attack? What do we do with him?

Or should we stick with pragmatic/defensive managers for the next 10 years, as we've invested 50m on a RB.

 

[Untd55]

His attacking play needs a lot of work, very impressive defensive player but has too many poor moments on the ball at this time.

It doesn't help having no right winger to create room. Our right side attack consists of him having to attempt to beat 2 or 3 players on every occasion to put in a cross.

That cross usually goes in to a box with only one player in it as well: Rashford, who is awful at heading to make it worse. I don't see how he can create much under those conditions.

 

[kundalini]

Thought he was poor today. Not like him to make so many careless minor errors. One moment of impressive defending against a West Ham counter-attack.

 

[liamp]

What happens if we get a proper attacking manager next, who wants full-backs who are excellent in attack? What do we do with him?

Or should we stick with pragmatic/defensive managers for the next 10 years, as we've invested 50m on a RB.

Hope that manager and his coaching staff are more able to develop his attacking prowess than what he has currently.

I feel like we've been jaded in the past 6 years or so. Player development after players have made the first-team is a normal thing that we should expect. The past few coaching staffs have made it seem like weaknesses will never become strengths.

 

[Bobski]

What happens if we get a proper attacking manager next, who wants full-backs who are excellent in attack? What do we do with him?

Or should we stick with pragmatic/defensive managers for the next 10 years, as we've invested 50m on a RB.

Have to give him time to develop before we make it a major issue. He is not Darmian, afraid of coming forward, gets into a lot of good positions but the quality is not there consistently. Neville started off that way, developed from a pure defensive full back into a very capable attacker late.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Said it since we signed him. Fantastic defender. Incredibly limited footballer. He's fecking shocking with the ball. We badly need a top right winger so he can just concentrate on defending. He's very good at that.

 

[Mcking]

He is a bit shit at football, isn't he?