Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

[Revan]

Well.. he already (sort of) controls the Vale, so trying to get control of the north would be a logical next step, especially since he has the Stark heir with him - Littlefinger's end game seems to be a puppet on the Throne, the north would give him the men for a rebellion. They already hinted at how stubborn the northeners are when it comes to following Starks and how the Boltons are excessively sadistic/cruel, so maybe the plan is to "re-establish" Sansa in the north and then in some way stab the Bolton's in the back.
Or they will somehow make Littlefinger cooperate with Manderly/Stannis.

Yep, I guess that is LF's plan, which is pretty much the same end goal as in the books. He already controls the Valve in both books and the show, and he plans to marr Sansa with Robert the Heir/Bolton's bastard. In the books the plan was to go and get the North with Valve's knights, knowing that the North will support them as soon as they see Sansa. On the other side, in the show he plans to again get the North with Sansa but with a marriage with Boltons, and then somehow stab Boltons in their back. With North and Valve under his control, he would easily get Riverlands too and would basically be the most powerful man in 7 kingdoms. The next logical step would either be to go and get the Iron Throne, or just rule those lands.

Of course, Stannis coming will be a problem for him. Stannis would likely execute him immediately. Sansa is getting smarter, so no guarantee that he will be able to play her for much longer. And of course, the external actors (Danny, Aegon and probably Jon) which would make sure that his plan won't work even if the other things go well.

Still, it is a good plan though and LF has already achieved much considering his heritage.

 

[Nighteyes]

Well.. he already (sort of) controls the Vale, so trying to get control of the north would be a logical next step, especially since he has the Stark heir with him - Littlefinger's end game seems to be a puppet on the Throne, the north would give him the men for a rebellion. They already hinted at how stubborn the northeners are when it comes to following Starks and how the Boltons are excessively sadistic/cruel, so maybe the plan is to "re-establish" Sansa in the north and then in some way stab the Bolton's in the back.
Or they will somehow make Littlefinger cooperate with Manderly/Stannis.

Well..that's another issue I have. The Vale. They really rushed it away and it's kinda hard to believe not one single feck there has any problems with him as the Lord Protector.

Don't see how he gains control though which was my point. Roose Bolton clearly does not like or trust Littlefinger. He also has no plans but to sit out the winter in the north. Which makes me question, why Littlefinger is still alive when Roose Bolton doesn't need him at all now that he has Sansa.

Yep, I guess that is LF's plan, which is pretty much the same end goal as in the books. He already controls the Valve in both books and the show, and he plans to marr Sansa with Robert the Heir/Bolton's bastard. In the books the plan was to go and get the North with Valve's knights, knowing that the North will support them as soon as they see Sansa. On the other side, in the show he plans to again get the North with Sansa but with a marriage with Boltons, and then somehow stab Boltons in their back. With North and Valve under his control, he would easily get Riverlands too and would basically be the most powerful man in 7 kingdoms. The next logical step would either be to go and get the Iron Throne, or just rule those lands.

LF already has the Riverlands.

I would be very surprised if he wants anything to do with the North though (in the books that is). And if he does want it, he literally has zero chance of getting it with it being the middle of winter.

 

[Waldner]

Imagine how much of a throw off it'd be if Bolton just skinned LF right out of the blue. I think many of us expect him to be a late game player, he's one of the few characters who's sudden death would be a real shock to many

 

[Cheesy]

3. I like the way they've gone with Dany's storyline (Much needed pace). A slight concern would be she's coming across as someone who's incompetent than just merely naïve.

I'd argue she sort if is incompetent in the books. She's great at taking over places and gaining followers, but she's a terrible ruler.

 

[Nighteyes]

Imagine how much of a throw off it'd be if Bolton just skinned LF right out of the blue. I think many of us expect him to be a late game player, he's one of the few characters who's sudden death would be a real shock to many

Agree with that but if you look at it LF never really puts himself up in position where he's expendable which is the case here.

I'd argue she sort if is incompetent in the books. She's great at taking over places and gaining followers, but she's a terrible ruler.

The big difference is she's 14 in the books. Young and lernin' so to speak. You can put most of her decisions down to that and having another army on her doorsteps. She's neither 14 nor in any immediate trouble in the show. Executing that slave guy in front of everyone was all kinds of foolish.

 

[Waldner]

Agree with that but if you look at it LF never really puts himself up in position where he's expendable which is the case here.

True, but would only take one madman to stop it. Ramsey gets pissed off, skins him. Brianne kills him for kidnapping Sansa, that kind of thing. Would just be one of the few remaining deaths that would really catch readers/viewers out.

 

[do.ob]

Well..that's another issue I have. The Vale. They really rushed it away and it's kinda hard to believe not one single feck there has any problems with him as the Lord Protector.

Yeah, I agree. I think the show has many holes in general.

Don't see how he gains control though which was my point. Roose Bolton clearly does not like or trust Littlefinger. He also has no plans but to sit out the winter in the north. Which makes me question, why Littlefinger is still alive when Roose Bolton doesn't need him at all now that he has Sansa.

Well.. as you've pointed out Littlefinger already has the Riverlands and we have to assume controls the vale. He's also supposed to be in steady contact with Cersei, adding the queen regent to the list of people who might be unhappy about him being murdered. We can see that Roose doesn't trust him and goes as far as to intercept his letters, so I guess his plan will be to isolate Littlefinger and keep him watched 24/7, so he won't get the chance to make a play.

LF already has the Riverlands.

I would be very surprised if he wants anything to do with the North though (in the books that is). And if he does want it, he literally has zero chance of getting it with it being the middle of winter.

It's been a while since I've read the books but isn't Sansa at times being referred to as the key to the north? I think the plan would be to present Sansa as an alternative to the Boltons and recruit some of the northern lords in order to win it by a rebellion instead of conquering it.

Of course, Stannis coming will be a problem for him. Stannis would likely execute him immediately. Sansa is getting smarter, so no guarantee that he will be able to play her for much longer. And of course, the external actors (Danny, Aegon and probably Jon) which would make sure that his plan won't work even if the other things go well.

Still, it is a good plan though and LF has already achieved much considering his heritage.

Why would Stannis immediately execute him? He might view him with contempt, but I don't think any of LFs crimes have been proven. Stannis also has compromised a lot of his principles imho. He was ready to kill Robert's innocent Bastards for Melisandre, he was ready to pardon the oathbreaker Mance Raider, he was encouraging Jon to break his oath.
I wouldn't be surprised if Stannis grudingly made use of LF if that would better his chance of winning the throne.


Is LF even really playing Sansa? For all we know Sansa might be the only person Littlefinger cares about (to some extend) and he might actually be trying to teach her how to play the game. And even if Sansa suddenly turned into a genuine player she would still be much better off with LF, because honestly he's probably been the most successful player thus far, we can assume that he controls the vale and he seems to have contacts and funds.

 

[Nighteyes]

It's been a while since I've read the books but isn't Sansa at times being referred to as the key to the north? I think the plan would be to present Sansa as an alternative to the Boltons and recruit some of the northern lords in order to win it by a rebellion instead of conquering it.

I guess that depends on who you speak to. Pretty much everyone not named Lannister or LF would take exceptions with that. I think if/when Winter clears up that plan (if it were the case) would be up in smoke anyway.

Also worth remembering, that fake Arya was groomed and sent by none other than LF. Another reason why I think LF will not send Sansa there.

 

[do.ob]

Again, I don't remeber things literally, but in exposing fake Arya while presenting Sansa he could easily destroy the Bolton's crediblity in the north. We have to remember how far LF is supposed to plan ahead, so drastic plot twists are to be expected.
Also Sansa is older than Arya anyway and thus has a better claim on Winterfell.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

Some of the posts in the other thread are brilliantly funny, as horrible as it is to laugh behind their backs.

This one re: Lyanna for example:

She's Caitlin's sister, Ned's first wife. Who was kidnapped and killed by the mad king. This caused Ned and Robert B to start the war and defeat the Taygaerians.

 

[Scarecrow]

They've barely mentioned the Rheagar and Lyanna story in the TV show, to be fair. Most of the TV watchers still seem to believe that Rhaegar really did kidnap and rape her even now. I thought the hints in the last episode were strong enough to suggest otherwise but I suppose they don't really know what to look for. With that in mind, it's also impressive that one of them has come up with the R+L=J. It's not nearly as obvious without Ned's inner monologues and all the other clues in the books.

 

[Revan]

Why would Stannis immediately execute him? He might view him with contempt, but I don't think any of LFs crimes have been proven. Stannis also has compromised a lot of his principles imho. He was ready to kill Robert's innocent Bastards for Melisandre, he was ready to pardon the oathbreaker Mance Raider, he was encouraging Jon to break his oath.
I wouldn't be surprised if Stannis grudingly made use of LF if that would better his chance of winning the throne.

Stannis dislike him (IIRC). In fact, LF was ready to help Ned as long as that meant that Stannis won't be the king. With Stannis in power, LF would lose everything, and in my opinion, his life too.

Is LF even really playing Sansa? For all we know Sansa might be the only person Littlefinger cares about (to some extend) and he might actually be trying to teach her how to play the game. And even if Sansa suddenly turned into a genuine player she would still be much better off with LF, because honestly he's probably been the most successful player thus far, we can assume that he controls the vale and he seems to have contacts and funds.

I think that LF is still playing her (he might care for her too, not mutually exclusive). If Sansa remembers that she's a Stark and/or becomes a good player, I guess that will be the end of LF, despite that she might be better to be her pawn (although, if she becomes a good player, then she might be able to do well without his power too).

LF has been a great player so far, but the true masterplayer has been Varys, no doubt about it. He basically managed to put Westeros in a war, to finance Daenerys and to 'create' Aegon (be it real Aegon or a Blackfyre). Not sure exactly what his true motives are, but he makes LF look like a puppy in comparison.

 

[Revan]

Redsky just cracked R + L = J. Kudos to him, I don't think that I would have been able to do it without reading the books.

 

[Nighteyes]

It's not nearly as obvious without Ned's inner monologues and all the other clues in the books.

Safe to say that without Ned's inner thoughts the theory has no basis at all. Well done to RS for getting it. If he hadn't spelled Lyanna horribly wrong I might have thought he was a book reader.

 

[kps88]

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I'm really skeptical of the amount of detail RS and Aldo post with when it comes to history and theories. Not saying they've read the books, but they're obviously super fans of the show and probably spend a lot of time reading about it on the internet. It's quite likely a lot of the stuff they read originates from book readers masking it as stuff they've learnt from paying close attention to the show.

 

[Massive Spanner]

technically it's all stuff you can get from the show though, it's just that ... most wouldn't. I'd say they've both read the GoT wiki extensively.

 

[Revan]

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I'm really skeptical of the amount of detail RS and Aldo post with when it comes to history and theories. Not saying they've read the books, but they're obviously super fans of the show and probably spend a lot of time reading about it on the internet. It's quite likely a lot of the stuff they read originates from book readers masking it as stuff they've learnt from paying close attention to the show.

Aldo has read the books. He posted here yesterday (which I found weird, considering that he always moaned on the other thread whenever I posted, so likely is a recent reader) asking if the show will have Aegon.

 

[kps88]

Aldo has read the books. He posted here yesterday (which I found weird, considering that he always moaned on the other thread whenever I posted, so likely is a recent reader) asking if the show will have Aegon.

Ah. Yeah that makes more sense then. They're going to throw a hissy fit in the other thread if they find out though.

 

[Revan]

Ah. Yeah that makes more sense then. They're going to throw a hissy fit in the other thread if they find out though.

I can't post there to mention it so hopefully someone says that Aldo is a book reader and then that thread will go to meltdown.

 

[Moby]

technically it's all stuff you can get from the show though, it's just that ... most wouldn't. I'd say they've both read the GoT wiki extensively.

There's a DVD extra that came with season 2, that details the complete history of events before the show started, it's on youtube, it's a couple of hours. And it's fascinating.

Anyway, I won't post there further.

 

[Revan]

There's a DVD extra that came with season 2, that details the complete history of events before the show started, it's on youtube, it's a couple of hours. And it's fascinating.

Anyway, I won't post there further.

How did you know about Aegon?

 

[Moby]

How did you know about Aegon?

A wiki of ice and fire.

 

[Revan]

A wiki of ice and fire.

You accused me all the time for spoiling in that thread, and then went to the place which spoils everything. Impressive!

On another note, I managed to spoil myself The Red Wedding there (and that Joffrey will die), and a friend of mine spoiled for me Ned's death. Thanks the lord I somehow managed to not spoil Oberyn's brutal death.

 

[Moby]

I used to care about spoilers back then.

 

[Revan]

Now Randall found that you have posted here, and Pexbo is accusing RS for being a book reader There is nothing better in the internet than that thread.

For what is worth, I don't think that RS is a book reader. He's not a cnut, and remember last year playing Age of Empires with him, and when he attacked me I threatened him that I'll spoil Game of Thrones and he then went batshit crazy.

 

[Moby]

You don't need to be a book reader to think of that possibility. I had already discussed that with a friend when neither of us had a clue about what happens in the books.

The problem is that they think this has already been revealed in the books, and somehow book readers are going there to spoil it in the name of speculation. Can see where they are coming from, tbh.

 

[kps88]

You don't need to be a book reader to think of that possibility. I had already discussed that with a friend when neither of us had a clue about what happens in the books.

Would you have thought of that without reading stuff online or watching anything extra though? If yes, then fair enough. It's one of those things that makes perfect sense once you hear it.

Also, Cina right now -

Spoiler

 

[Scarecrow]

Getting interesting it the other thread. Been a while since we had a good meltdown there.

 

[Moby]

Well, yes, you have to read a lot about Robert's Rebellion, which happens to be my favourite event in the whole timeline, so it did occur to me a while back.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

I love their thread

 

[Revan]

You don't need to be a book reader to think of that possibility. I had already discussed that with a friend when neither of us had a clue about what happens in the books.

The problem is that they think this has already been revealed in the books, and somehow book readers are going there to spoil it in the name of speculation. Can see where they are coming from, tbh.

To be fair, R + L = J theory is quite difficult to be linked even reading the books. A lot of people got the relation, but I think that the absolute majority got it only after they read about it on Westerosi forum or wiki of ice and fire. In fact, even now, it is still an unconfirmed theory. It most likely is true (too many hints for it to be false) but then the main theory on Wheel of Time which was accepted as much as this was ultimatelly proven to be false. So, you never know...

Getting it only from the show (assuming that RS hasn't read any extra stuff like wiki,youtube or something else) is seriously impressive considering that there are minimal things which put you there. They exist, but it is like something in first season, and then something else small in the second season and so on. In fact, I think that Jaime killing the king for honorable reasons (which I semi-spoiled in the other thread a couple of years ago) was more easy to relate considering that there is a scene on the first season which gives exactly that. Yet, no one back then found it until Jaime-Brianne scene and after that you were calling for me to get banned

 

[Moby]

Getting it only from the show (assuming that RS hasn't read any extra stuff like wiki,youtube or something else) is seriously impressive considering that there are minimal things which put you there.

You probably underestimate how big GoT nerds we can be.

 

[Massive Spanner]

@Aldo if you've read the books you should never discuss anything in the tv thread.

 

[Cheesy]

For what is worth, I don't think that RS is a book reader. He's not a cnut, and remember last year playing Age of Empires with him, and when he attacked me I threatened him that I'll spoil Game of Thrones and he then went batshit crazy.

He's also come up with some pretty ambitious theories in WW games that have come off, so I'd say he's just good at interpreting possible angles related to the show. His spelling of characters names is also awful, so I'd wager against him being a book reader. Probably just knows the show well.

 

[Revan]

He's also come up with some pretty ambitious theories in WW games that have come off, so I'd say he's just good at interpreting possible angles related to the show. His spelling of characters names is also awful, so I'd wager against him being a book reader. Probably just knows the show well.

Yeah, both RS and Redlambs are two of the best WW players, so analyzing things well and comming to some conclusions is to be expected. If I was betting on someone getting these things, it would be them.

 

[Moby]

@Aldo if you've read the books you should never discuss anything in the tv thread.

Aye aye captain.

 

[Cheesy]

Yeah, both RS and Redlambs are two of the best WW players, so analyzing things well and comming to some conclusions is to be expected. If I was betting on someone getting these things, it would be them.

Yeah. I suppose it's a fine line though for show watchers who look into stuff deeper on the GOT wiki etc. I mean, they're effectively not spoiling anything and don't know what happens in the books, but they do perhaps find information that only a book reader could properly elaborate on and explain in a wiki.

 

[Phil Jones Face]

I really don't understand why people can't resist the urge to post in there and speculate or correct viewers if they've read the books.

I mean, even innocuous shit like this:

Well Sansa for example is way beyond the books, she did this about around episode 1, they actually merged her storyline with another character (fake Arya) to give her something to do I guess.

On a case by case basis some characters are beyond the books or are coming close, some have diverged so much from the book that I'm not sure where they are in relation anymore. Jaime and Brienne are in weird places I guess they are kinda on track but in totally different areas than they are supposed to be. In fact now that I think about it Jon, Dany, Arya and Cersei are probably the only POV characters that have any book storyline left and of those I imagine there is only this seasons worth remaining.

Is too much imo. If I was a TV viewer I wouldn't want to know how far Sansa has gone or how much more there is to come for her. As far as I would be concerned, she could drop dead the very next episode. Mentioning fake Arya, etc is just too much.

Just stop it guys. Your intentions are good, but you're just fecking it up for others.

 

[kps88]

We've been over this so many times, there's really nothing else the mods can do apart from just ban everyone who has ever posted in this thread from the TV thread.

If I was a TV viewer I'd never go into that thread because, no matter how hard you try to police it, all it takes is one bad apple to ruin it for you.

 

[Revan]

About the fake Arya, why people are getting batshit crazy? It is irrelevant considering that it is something that it isn't going to happen. It is as much relevant as mentioning that there was a knight greater than Ser Barristan who was slayed from Ned and Jojen's father. Won't spoil anything for anyone.

And anyway, the viewers asked when will the show catch up.

But still, I guess the best way is to just stay away from it.

@Aldo , considering that you're a big fan of the show and history, is there any reason why you haven't read the books?