A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Nou_Camp99]

We need this to happen ASAP. When we have Poch then I will be sure that we are onto big things again. Love Ole wanted it to work but he just isnt the proper calibre and it is what it is.

When we have LVG it will so much better than Moyes. When we have Jose it will be so much better than LVG. When we have Ole it will be so much better than Jose as he upset everyone.

Can you not see the pattern? You're in La La land if you think Poch is doing anything great under Woodward n Judge. He will crash and burn just like the rest.

 

[RedDevil@84]

We need this to happen ASAP. When we have Poch then I will be sure that we are onto big things again. Love Ole wanted it to work but he just isnt the proper calibre and it is what it is.

Wow. Its amazing to see how Woodward and co are so successful with blinding people. We are just one managerial signing away from glory.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Sold. When can he start?

Whilst I am starting to change my mind on Ole, he deserves more than 3 games into the season. If top 4 is looking unlikely by Christmas then yes he should go. Howver I do still believe we will make top 4.

Poch is attractive but what are your views on how it ended for him? Lot of players looked like they had been run into the ground?

It was all a bit strange tbh. I think that losing the CL final had a big deflating effect on him - and possibly the players - especially given the early pen awarded against us due to the same stupid handball rule we've now seen many times. Had that not happened, who knows what the result might have been.

Anyhow, the season started poorly for us and mostly continued that way until he was sacked. I don't think the players had been run into the ground - after all, they'd just had a summer break.

 

[FootyGirl88]

what formation does Poch play? I dont like 4321.

 

[Berbasbullet]

what formation does Poch play? I dont like 4321.

Yep! I know Bayern play it but I swear it just doesn’t suit united, never feel like it has. Always been a 433 man myself.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Yep! I know Bayern play it but I swear it just doesn’t suit united, never feel like it has. Always been a 433 man myself.

Same i like 433

 

[bosnian_red]

Wow. Its amazing to see how Woodward and co are so successful with blinding people. We are just one managerial signing away from glory.

To be fair - the manager is ultimately responsible for building the tactics of a side and getting the players to perform. We have a good squad now, but does anyone truly think Ole will ever be more than just somebody who is a top 4 challenger? Pochettino showed at Southampton and Spurs he's capable of getting a side play as more than the sum of their parts, he implemented a clear style with a good off the ball pressing system and had the backing of everyone. Of course, you need year on year change. Levy didn't strengthen year after year, and the year they made the CL final it was getting stale, and the fall was inevitable. But he did show a capability to get more out of his team than one would expect, had a clear identity and knew what he wanted and how to use his players. He would have a group here who can do the same thing.

I love Ole and have backed him - but hes just not the guy who will get us competing for titles. Whats the point in keeping him here, when Pochettino is available and can implement his style and potentially be what is actually required to turn us into competitors?

 

[Falcow]

It was all a bit strange tbh. I think that losing the CL final had a big deflating effect on him - and possibly the players - especially given the early pen awarded against us due to the same stupid handball rule we've now seen many times. Had that not happened, who knows what the result might have been.

Anyhow, the season started poorly for us and mostly continued that way until he was sacked. I don't think the players had been run into the ground - after all, they'd just had a summer break.

Yeah maybe, Dembele and Ericsson looked spent to me though. I though he got his team selection wrong in the CL final. Kane should never have started as clearly wasnt fit and Moura defo should have after his hatrick in the semis. The FA cup semi against us also went poorly for spurs and his pre match comments re cup not being important (or something to that effect) were I'll judged.

I get why spurs fans might still have strong feelings for him but I think he is far from the sure bet most united fans seem to think he is.

 

[Falcow]

Wow. Its amazing to see how Woodward and co are so successful with blinding people. We are just one managerial signing away from glory.

Worked out ok for liverpool.

 

[NJM78]

Hope Poch is raring and ready to go in November.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Worked out ok for liverpool.

I think Liverpool club did several things right, first of all even appointing an actual technical director and things. Klopp didn't wave his magic wand and turn them into champions. It involved owners/board getting many things right and planning.

 

[Champ]

Worked out ok for liverpool.

Liverpool changed the whole way the club was run, they started using the Moneyball tactics for transfers and who dictates the transfer policies, changed the way the youth teams were playing,
It's a bit churlish to suggest Klopp or the change of manager is the only reason for Liverpools success...

 

[RedDevil@84]

To be fair - the manager is ultimately responsible for building the tactics of a side and getting the players to perform. We have a good squad now, but does anyone truly think Ole will ever be more than just somebody who is a top 4 challenger? Pochettino showed at Southampton and Spurs he's capable of getting a side play as more than the sum of their parts, he implemented a clear style with a good off the ball pressing system and had the backing of everyone. Of course, you need year on year change. Levy didn't strengthen year after year, and the year they made the CL final it was getting stale, and the fall was inevitable. But he did show a capability to get more out of his team than one would expect, had a clear identity and knew what he wanted and how to use his players. He would have a group here who can do the same thing.

I love Ole and have backed him - but hes just not the guy who will get us competing for titles. Whats the point in keeping him here, when Pochettino is available and can implement his style and potentially be what is actually required to turn us into competitors?

There is no doubt (at least for me) that Poch is a better manager than Ole. Will it translate to titles or better than top 3 is something I am not so sure about. But my concern is that Poch or for that any manager will need time and support to implement his style or his philosophy, so to speak.
But the way board behaved with Jose or with Ole, doesn't give me the confidence that Poch will get continuous backing. He will be backed in first window and then ditched in the next. Or Poch might have some targets and our team of negotiators completely fail at their jobs to bring them in.
Until our board and CEO get their act together, whatever highs we could have will be a temporary thing. They will blow away and go into freefall any moment.

 

[JJ12]

Liverpool changed the whole way the club was run, they started using the Moneyball tactics for transfers and who dictates the transfer policies, changed the way the youth teams were playing,
It's a bit churlish to suggest Klopp or the change of manager is the only reason for Liverpools success...

Their work in the transfer market has been brilliant. In terms of selling as much as buying.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Liverpool changed the whole way the club was run, they started using the Moneyball tactics for transfers and who dictates the transfer policies, changed the way the youth teams were playing,
It's a bit churlish to suggest Klopp or the change of manager is the only reason for Liverpools success...

Maybe so but I doubt they’d have won what they have the last two years without him tbh. He was 99% of that success imo

 

[Bebestation]

Liverpool & so many other clubs are able to sell their players for great value because the club never go out of their way of pretending to be the biggest club in the world when they are not. When you are not even the best team in your league never mind the best in Europe - you just end up shouting about being the biggest club in the world for financial reasons & that is what we do.

We sound like a club that dont need significant money when selling our players nor need help when buying other players at other clubs by reducing the expected value of that player. This is far from the truth though isnt it?

Forget the quality of the player - but would Leicester ask 80 million for Maguire from any other club in the PL? I dont think so. Sancho is the same handling by Dortmund where any other club would get the guy for a 10-20 million less atleast but if its United then we get charged the full amount plus more.

The fact is we are not the biggest club in the world by footballing standards and neither are we the biggest financially because the money is distributed across the club as a business to its stakeholders. The footballing aspect of this club is nothing but that; just a single stakeholder of United amongst many others who just want to be payed.

The next manager whether it be Pochettino, naggelsman, rose or Ole may improve this club towards being a competitive club for sure - but we wont be the biggest club in the world by footballing standards at all. The fact is we saw this even under SAF post Ronaldo's & Tevez's departure - the players we bought since then were competitive but far from the best.

 

[Water Melon]

Liverpool & so many other clubs are able to sell their players for great value because the club never go out of their way of pretending to be the biggest club in the world when they are not. When you are not even the best team in your league never mind the best in Europe - you just end up shouting about being the biggest club in the world for financial reasons & that is what we do.

We sound like a club that dont need significant money when selling our players nor need help when buying other players at other clubs by reducing the expected value of that player. This is far from the truth though isnt it?

Forget the quality of the player - but would Leicester ask 80 million for Maguire from any other club in the PL? I dont think so. Sancho is the same handling by Dortmund where any other club would get the guy for a 10-20 million less atleast but if its United then we get charged the full amount plus more.

The fact is we are not the biggest club in the world by footballing standards and neither are we the biggest financially because the money is distributed across the club as a business to its stakeholders. The footballing aspect of this club is nothing but that; just a single stakeholder of United amongst many others who just want to be payed.

The next manager whether it be Pochettino, naggelsman, rose or Ole may improve this club towards being a competitive club for sure - but we wont be the biggest club in the world by footballing standards at all. The fact is we saw this even under SAF post Ronaldo's & Tevez's departure - the players we bought since then were competitive but far from the best.

Agreed.

 

[Skills]

Honestly I dont know - if he got full backing of the board with not only transfers but with how he wants control over things then yes he would definitely sort things out. The problem with Utd is that there appear to be serious issues with the structure within the club and that starts from the top.

Do you think Pochettino was 'backed' anymore by Spurs than any of Ole/Jose/Van Gaal at United?

Worth remembering the season Mourinho through toys out the pram for the club 'only' spending £70m odd, Spurs bought nobody. Not one single player.

 

[monosierra]

Maybe so but I doubt they’d have won what they have the last two years without him tbh. He was 99% of that success imo

Indeed, success builds on success. Klopp was more impressed with what Pool offered in terms of instituional setup and resources than whatever Disneyland nonsense Woodward was pitching. United is in danger of being a poisoned chalice to managers, with a board that seems happy with Top 4 and a reputation in decline.

 

[cjj]

It was all a bit strange tbh. I think that losing the CL final had a big deflating effect on him - and possibly the players - especially given the early pen awarded against us due to the same stupid handball rule we've now seen many times. Had that not happened, who knows what the result might have been.

Anyhow, the season started poorly for us and mostly continued that way until he was sacked. I don't think the players had been run into the ground - after all, they'd just had a summer break.

This kind of covers over the fact that the poor form didn't start after the CL Final, it was well and truly in place by then. The poor 'form' started not long after the start of the year, but the poor 'performances' started at the beginning of that season.
I think the book he did had a big effect on the squad and it was eating away progressively from there.


TBF it sounded like he would have quit if we won the CL final anyway, so we probably would have just got Mourinho in earlier than we did

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Hope he doesn't come for a while. Wait till the end of the season. Dont want him to get sacked so soon. Needs to be timed right for things to work. Fans needs to be patient.

 

[starman]

Hopefully he can get a job elsewhere so this thread can die, the mythology around him is crazy. He should take the PSG job if offered so he could finally win a trophy

 

[balaks]

Do you think Pochettino was 'backed' anymore by Spurs than any of Ole/Jose/Van Gaal at United?

Worth remembering the season Mourinho through toys out the pram for the club 'only' spending £70m odd, Spurs bought nobody. Not one single player.

He was backed - from what I've heard Poch is the kind of manager that has a small list of targets and if he can't get who he wants then he won't consider any alternatives. No doubt Levy let everybody down by not buying a single player for 2 windows but I don't think the problem was entirely his fault as Poch perhaps didn't help the situation. He was backed though when we could secure a signing he wanted - we broke our transfer window record several times with Poch and most recently with N'dombele. He was also backed when he basically told Levy that about half the squad needed to leave which is what happened in his first year - they all got sold because he didnt feel they had what it takes. That could be an issue for you as I said before - your wages prohibit player sales and Im not sure how many of your squad would fit into the high intensity style Poch favours.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Worth remembering the season Mourinho through toys out the pram for the club 'only' spending £70m odd, Spurs bought nobody. Not one single player.

Different teams, different asks. Different managers, different reactions.

Poch being ok with no transfers in a window cannot be extrapolated into "This is how Poch is". Maybe the team was good enough for whatever the target that was set by Levy. Doesn't mean he will be ok with no signings with United or for any other team.

And the fact is eventually Poch's team suffered from no additions and then everything went downhill and he got fired. His not reacting similar to Jose, hardly makes any difference. Eventually the team went down.

 

[fps]

Yep! I know Bayern play it but I swear it just doesn’t suit united, never feel like it has. Always been a 433 man myself.

In United’s version of it the midfielders leave too much to each other. I’d also like to see a 433.

 

[Eli Zee]

I love Ole but I love winning more. I actually don't think Ole is the right manager and Pochettino would be better

 

[Champ]

Maybe so but I doubt they’d have won what they have the last two years without him tbh. He was 99% of that success imo

That's difficult to quantify, but I'd agree that Klopp was the perfect manager at the perfect time.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

From Moyes attack from wings and cross to the box style, switched to LVG possession based football, and switched to Mou's counter attack based football, to OGS's whatever football it is (i honestly don't know, let's call it the united way), then to Poch high press? Each project lasted 2 year max so far, and every manager change need to clean out almost the entire squad to fit the new manager's playing style. Quite interesting. A DOF probably is a good idea for modern club. It works very well for Leeds united based on what i watched from Amazon video. haha.

Edit
Arsenal is in same mess. Arteta wants to move on lots of players from previous manager.

 

[Chief123]

Yep! I know Bayern play it but I swear it just doesn’t suit united, never feel like it has. Always been a 433 man myself.

Same i like 433

I prefer the 433 but the major reason I believe we don’t play it is because of Matic. He does not have the legs or agility to shield the back four from right to left. If we had a more mobile CDM I have no doubt we would be playing with two box to box midfielders either side of him.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I prefer the 433 but the major reason I believe we don’t play it is because of Matic. He does not have the legs or agility to shield the back four from right to left. If we had a more mobile CDM I have no doubt we would be playing with two box to box midfielders either side of him.

We still played it when Matic was dropped or injured.

The 4-2-3-1 is all on Ole, clearly it's his preferred formation and he's shoehorning players into it.

 

[united_99]

Hopefully he can get a job elsewhere so this thread can die, the mythology around him is crazy. He should take the PSG job if offered so he could finally win a trophy

My thoughts exactly. But it’s very likely he will be here if Ole gets sacked. Unless he is still in London and he and his family prefer to stay there, then he will be waiting for the Arsenal / Chelsea job.
Him getting the PSG job and adapting his system and tactics to fit Neymar and Mbappe (and keep them happy) would be interesting to follow.

 

[redDNA]

From Moyes attack from wings and cross to the box style, switched to LVG possession based football, and switched to Mou's counter attack based football, to OGS's whatever football it is (i honestly don't know, let's call it the united way), then to Poch high press? Each project lasted 2 year max so far, and every manager change need to clean out almost the entire squad to fit the new manager's playing style. Quite interesting. A DOF probably is a good idea for modern club. It works very well for Leeds united based on what i watched from Amazon video. haha.

Edit
Arsenal is in same mess. Arteta wants to move on lots of players from previous manager.

I think the most of the players in our squad will fit Poch's high press.players like

AWB
Rashford
Martial
Shaw
Bruno
Fred
Mct
Greenwood
Williams
Bailly

I'm not sure if

Pogba
Maguire (?)
Matic
Lindelof

Will fit his high intensity method.

 

[Dominos]

It seems like what United fans want is a manager who ticks these 3 boxes

1. Plays attractive attacking football
2. Proven trophy winner
3. Has an identity in play style and the influence of their coaching can clearly be seen in games

The problem is, who actually satisfies that criteria? Klopp and Pep. Everyone else we appoint will get slaughtered for either playing shit football or never winning a trophy.

For once I just want a manager who improves teams with his coaching rather than relying on the cheque book and gets the best from his squad. Poch fits the bill for me from what I've seen from Southampton and Spurs.

 

[Chief123]

It seems like what United fans want is a manager who ticks these 3 boxes

1. Plays attractive attacking football
2. Proven trophy winners
3. Have a clear identity in play style and the influence of their coaching can clearly be seen in games

The problem is, who actually satisfies that criteria? Klopp and Pep. Everyone else we appoint will get slaughtered for either playing shit football or never winning a trophy.

For once I just want a manager who improves teams with his coaching rather than relying on the cheque book and gets the best from his squad. Poch fits the bill for me from what I've seen from Southampton and Spurs.

Personally I would love Bielsa to be brought in. A strong disciplinarian with a clear philosophy of football and incredible tactical awareness.

 

[Dominos]

Personally I would love Bielsa to be brought in. A strong disciplinarian with a clear philosophy of football and incredible tactical awareness.

I wouldn't be massively against it but I think he's too much of a risk, could see him rubbing a lot of our players up the wrong way with his eccentric personality and methods, and falling out with the likes of Woodward could be inevitable.

He also doesn't meet the proven trophy winner criteria that most of our fans seem to have.

 

[Chief123]

I wouldn't be massively against it but I think he's too much of a risk, could see him rubbing a lot of our players up the wrong way with his eccentric personality and methods, and falling out with the likes of Woodward could be inevitable.

He also doesn't meet the proven trophy winner criteria that most of our fans seem to have.

The truth is football moves so fast nowadays and is even more cyclical than it used to be.

You just won’t get a team dominating for 10-15 years like we did before because of the nature of how cut throat the game has become. A run of defeats in one season gets a manager sacked now.

Not a single person in football would have guessed Poch would get sacked just a few months after leading them to their first champions league final.

The truth is Pep and Klopp are regarded as the best in the league if not the world right now. But even they won’t be in the premier league within a couple of years. I don’t see Pep staying beyond this season to be honest. And Klopp has already said he’s leaving at the end of his contract. For a manager to continue what Klopp has done is going to be incredibly difficult. But it’s the same for any team. There won’t be teams with managers that stay 5-10 years at clubs any more. Hence why I think teams “conquering” an era is less likely as the money in football levels the playing field and manager tenures are reduced.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm not a Pochettino fan.

However the only reason I wouldnt mind him is due to his experience in competing with Pep & Klopp.

If one or both of Pep or Klopp leave soon then I'd rather we take a gamble on a manager like Nagelsmann or Rose.

 

[Dominos]

The truth is football moves so fast nowadays and is even more cyclical than it used to be.

You just won’t get a team dominating for 10-15 years like we did before because of the nature of how cut throat the game has become. A run of defeats in one season gets a manager sacked now.

Not a single person in football would have guessed Poch would get sacked just a few months after leading them to their first champions league final.

The truth is Pep and Klopp are regarded as the best in the league if not the world right now. But even they won’t be in the premier league within a couple of years. I don’t see Pep staying beyond this season to be honest. And Klopp has already said he’s leaving at the end of his contract. For a manager to continue what Klopp has done is going to be incredibly difficult. But it’s the same for any team. There won’t be teams with managers that stay 5-10 years at clubs any more. Hence why I think teams “conquering” an era is less likely as the money in football levels the playing field and manager tenures are reduced.

I thought at the time that Poch should consider leaving after the CL final loss, while his stock was at it's highest. He had taken the team as far as he could and a drop off in intensity after that disappointment was always a possibility.

 

[Chief123]

I thought at the time that Poch should consider leaving after the CL final loss, while his stock was at it's highest. He had taken the team as far as he could and a drop off in intensity after that disappointment was always a possibility.

Yeah I did feel that too. There wasn’t much else he could have achieved with them. It was extremely unlikely he could get them back to another champions league final. And it was going to be a struggle to beat his previous best of getting 2nd in the league.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Yeah I did feel that too. There wasn’t much else he could have achieved with them. It was extremely unlikely he could get them back to another champions league final. And it was going to be a struggle to beat his previous best of getting 2nd in the league.

Didn’t he come 3rd in the league in that two horse race?