A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

VorZakone said:
What pressure cooker? We got fans writing off PL games as irrelevant and calling everything "rebuilding". And a board that's happy with just top 4.

The standards aren't as high as you think they are.
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Which PL games have been written off as irrelevant and who are these fans you speak of?

Ole hasn't done a bad job at all. You lot just want an instant fix. Well I've got bad news for you. There's no instant fix for this mess. Back the manager and trust in the work he's doing making us a much younger and hungrier team.

Poch working under Glazers and Woodward will be a car crash waiting to happen. At the very least with Ole we have somebody who the fans adore and the players seem to look up to. This board can't get away with it with Ole around as the fans won't turn on him easily. Well only the plastic fans who wouldn't even be Utd fans if they happened to be born 20 years later.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Which PL games have been written off as irrelevant and who are these fans you speak of?

Ole hasn't done a bad job at all. You lot just want an instant fix. Well I've got bad news for you. There's no instant fix for this mess. Back the manager and trust in the work he's doing making us a much younger and hungrier team.

Poch working under Glazers and Woodward will be a car crash waiting to happen. At the very least with Ole we have somebody who the fans adore and the players seem to look up to. This board can't get away with it with Ole around as the fans won't turn on him easily. Well only the plastic fans who wouldn't even be Utd fans if they happened to be born 20 years later.
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https://www.redcafe.net/threads/best-to-write-yesterday’s-game-off-as-irrelevant.457551/
 
GlastonSpur said:
It's pretty clear to all but the wilfully blind that Pochettino as a manager is a level above Ole.

You can tell me different when/if Ole, with a far larger budget than Pochettino ever had (both for wages and transfer fees), takes United to a CL final and into the top 4 in four successive seasons.
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Poch had probably the second best striker in the world in his squad during his time at Spurs, it would have been a hell of a lot different if Kane wasn't there and he needed to buy one. 20m on Janssen tells you all you need to know...

Poch's best discovery in his entire career, (not just at Spurs) was Son, who had already scored a ton of goals for Bayern Leverkusen. Ole signed Haaland before he had even scored a professional goal.

Ole just needs to win a trophy and top 4 again to prove he is better.
 
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Are people seriously arguing Ole is a better manager than Pochettino? We deserve to be where we are.
 
He'sRaldo said:
I'm fine with people having high standards for Poch. His attitude and comments about trophies at times was pretty bad. The problem is when those same people turn around and blame everything under the sun except Ole for when things aren't going right for us....
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It is a stone cold fact Ole gets a raw deal. Every time he loses a game, his detractors swear the opposite coach is far better than he. Then when he beats up on coaches supposedly far superior to him it's treated like he is just fluking. Even if he had done it more than once even in the same season. Its mind boggling.

In addition it's been apparent even before Ole arrived where the real problem is at United. But Ole's detractors are way too desperate to lay the blame on him. Last season for example of we had more competent people handling transfers. Bruno would have arrived 6 months earlier and we would have finished closer to City and even Liverpool. Given our post January winter break form. That even after lock down got us 3rd place.
 
PoTMS said:
Are people seriously arguing Ole is a better manager than Pochettino? We deserve to be where we are.
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If Pochetino is far better than Ole like likes of you love to claim. Why didn't he beat a mere Ranieri to a bloody league title. Armed with a better balanced squad and a far better striker than anything Ole has had at OT?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It is a stone cold fact Ole gets a raw deal. Every time he loses a game, his detractors swear the opposite coach is far better than he. Then when he beats up on coaches supposedly far superior to him it's treated like he is just fluking. Even if he had done it more than once even in the same season. Its mind boggling.

In addition it's been apparent even before Ole arrived where the real problem is at United. But Ole's detractors are way too desperate to lay the blame on him. Last season for example of we had more competent people handling transfers. Bruno would have arrived 6 months earlier and we would have finished closer to City and even Liverpool. Given our post January winter break form. That even after lock down got us 3rd place.
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But you see, you didn't consider any of that when talking about Poch.

For him, the tools were simply there and anything other than a title is a failure. If we're coming at it from that standpoint and ignoring context of the clubs, then I fail to see why Ole not winning the title is considered acceptable.

I think Poch got a raw deal at times as well, but he should have won something and he failed in that respect; just like Ole should be winning something this season. No excuses for either.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
If Pochetino is far better than Ole like likes of you love to claim. Why didn't he beat a mere Ranieri to a bloody league title. Armed with a better balanced squad and a far better striker than anything Ole has had at OT?
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Why didn't any of Man. City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea beat "a mere Ranieri" to that same league title, despite having vastly more spending power than Spurs?

Berating Pochettino for failing to do what these other clubs also couldn't do is a pretty weird of attempting to prove that Pochettino is not a cut above Ole.
 
VorZakone said:
What pressure cooker? We got fans writing off PL games as irrelevant and calling everything "rebuilding". And a board that's happy with just top 4.

The standards aren't as high as you think they are.
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The cognitive dissonance amongst some fans on here is stark isnt it. People giving a pass at a 3-1 loss at home by a pretty shite team but also expecting to compete at the top is pretty funny :lol:
The "pressure cooker" is merely in relation to the media. The actual pressure to win things isnt high internally. If anything if Poch could guarentee top 4, the leeches will love that
 
GlastonSpur said:
Why didn't any of Man. City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea beat "a mere Ranieri" to that same league title, despite having vastly more spending power than Spurs?
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The difference, as you should know as a Spurs fan, is watching the Poch manage the club to the cusp of such an event, where we had a better chance than ever, but we ended up falling to pieces. As much good he did with us, Poch also brought the 'bottle job' moniker. One thing we did reasonably consistently was get to the cusp of success and then fail terribly.

It's borderline depressing that we have wasted a few seasons of one of the finest players the club has ever had and have given him nothing to show for it.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Saying that for banter sake is one thing. Genuinely believing in this is bollocks. Similar stuff was said about Pool and City.
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It's different from Liverpool. Even during their title drought, they still won cups and stuff. City just recently got into the big time because of their money. Spurs have been called a top 6 team years. What have they won in the last 40 years?
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Do you even look at the context of the season? Or just believe in utopian world where United are in a title challenge season after season.
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RedDevil@84 said:
Do you even look at the context of the season? Or just believe in utopian world where United are in a title challenge season after season.
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I'm glad you have very low expectations, but please don't have a go a people who expect something higher. We have not challenged for the title since 0213. We have been in a rebuild for the last 7 years. It's time something was expected from this squad and the manager. We are getting closer, but we need to spend a little more, and maybe find better coaching. Can't sit still, otherwise, we will get left further behind.
 
Really need to stop pretending that Poch is some kind of Genius vastly superior than OGS
He had half of Belgium back 4, France's keeper, one of the best midfielder in the world on his day (Eriksen), England's number 9, Alli looked like a powerhouse 2 years ago.
OGS had Lingard and Pereira.
 
It seems he might be waiting for Real Madrid job to be available again for him but United should be trying to get him. At the very least you should replace Solskjær as soon as posible as he's a poor coach so it's just a waste of time and resources having him as manager. Otherwise you're going to end up doing hiring, yet again, the wrong manager at the wrong time once the club decides to sack Solskjær, which is something inevitable for him given his limited capability.
 
K_Ash said:
Really need to stop pretending that Poch is some kind of Genius vastly superior than OGS
He had half of Belgium back 4, France's keeper, one of the best midfielder in the world on his day (Eriksen), England's number 9, Alli looked like a powerhouse 2 years ago.
OGS had Lingard and Pereira.
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and yet still came 3rd in a 2 horse race and couldn’t beat a Leicester team to the title. if he had won the league that year (he certainly had the best team), then all props.

But like Mourinho has already identified, his teams have never had the psychological edge to win. And I think that’s because he isn’t blessed with fiercely competitive genes.
 
Acheron said:
It seems he might be waiting for Real Madrid job to be available again for him but United should be trying to get him. At the very least you should replace Solskjær as soon as posible as he's a poor coach so it's just a waste of time and resources having him as manager. Otherwise you're going to end up doing hiring, yet again, the wrong manager at the wrong time once the club decides to sack Solskjær, which is something inevitable for him given his limited capability.
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Even a Real Madrid knows that we are better off without Ole. We have had terrible judgment in hiring managers. I agree that we should sack Ole, but only on the basis that our next managers are either Pochettino or Nagelsman. Pochettino has experience in the league, more accomplishments And recognition, and an attacking philosophy that will get us back to where we should be. I do feel that Pochettino has an eye for that Madrid job, and it might be open since Zidane doesn’t have Ronaldo anymore. If Zidane doesn’t improve in the champions league, this season, he could be gone. It will be a race of who sack their managers first, United or Madrid. I feel at Madrid, he will reunite with Kane and both of them will get the highest trophy in the game as like it was written in a book. But, then again Nagelsman and Tuchel might also be in contention for the jobs, so we have to see what happens.
 
Amadaeus said:
Even a Real Madrid knows that we are better off without Ole. We have had terrible judgment in hiring managers. I agree that we should sack Ole, but only on the basis that our next managers are either Pochettino or Nagelsman. Pochettino has experience in the league, more accomplishments And recognition, and an attacking philosophy that will get us back to where we should be. I do feel that Pochettino has an eye for that Madrid job, and it might be open since Zidane doesn’t have Ronaldo anymore. If Zidane doesn’t improve in the champions league, this season, he could be gone. It will be a race of who sack their managers first, United or Madrid. I feel at Madrid, he will reunite with Kane and both of them will get the highest trophy in the game as like it was written in a book. But, then again Nagelsman and Tuchel might also be in contention for the jobs, so we have to see what happens.
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You sure about that?
 
Amadaeus said:
Yea, he has achieved more success in a harder league and in European competition without spending a lot. Trophies aren’t the only measure meant of success.
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Depends how you quantify success really.

If you quantify it as nearly won something but didn't or kind of challenged but faded away then yeah I suppose you're right,
 
starman said:
Poch had probably the second best striker in the world in his squad during his time at Spurs, it would have been a hell of a lot different if Kane wasn't there and he needed to buy one. 20m on Janssen tells you all you need to know...

Poch's best discovery in his entire career, (not just at Spurs) was Son, who had already scored a ton of goals for Bayern Leverkusen. Ole signed Haaland before he had even scored a professional goal.

Ole just needs to win a trophy and top 4 again to prove he is better.
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He signed Alderweireld, Alli, and Trippier under his tenure.

All of this is for nought anyway. Pochettino said he had no real say over transfers or contracts at Tottenham.

BBC - Pochettino

And the last bit is complete nonsense.
 
Untd55 said:
He signed Alderweireld, Alli, and Trippier under his tenure.

All of this is for nought anyway. Pochettino said he had no real say over transfers or contracts at Tottenham.

BBC - Pochettino

And the last bit is complete nonsense.
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So what. Alderweireld and Trippier were already PL players. Dele has gone off the boil.
Nonsense to Poch lovers, a manager that's never won a trophy.
 
Amadaeus said:
Even a Real Madrid knows that we are better off without Ole. We have had terrible judgment in hiring managers. I agree that we should sack Ole, but only on the basis that our next managers are either Pochettino or Nagelsman. Pochettino has experience in the league, more accomplishments And recognition, and an attacking philosophy that will get us back to where we should be. I do feel that Pochettino has an eye for that Madrid job, and it might be open since Zidane doesn’t have Ronaldo anymore. If Zidane doesn’t improve in the champions league, this season, he could be gone. It will be a race of who sack their managers first, United or Madrid. I feel at Madrid, he will reunite with Kane and both of them will get the highest trophy in the game as like it was written in a book. But, then again Nagelsman and Tuchel might also be in contention for the jobs, so we have to see what happens.
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Well, Ole is doing the best he can I do believe there are better quite a few better managers than him and Pochettino would be one of them. In the position that Manchester United is the board should prioritize getting a manager that can build a solid foundation in terms of football style instead of trying to get instant success. From what I've seen I don't think Ole is doing that and once he's replaced the next person in the job is going to start from scratch.
 
After the Levy firing, Pochettino has been jobless for nearly a year now. There are very few examples of modern managers coming back to win major silverware in an elite club after a prolonged sabbatical. Pep is the obvious exception (2012/13), but unlike Pochettino who cannot get a job, Pep wanted a year's break after the intense pressure at Barcelona.

After how long a break (joblessness) is a manager too rusty for a top job? Or does that concept not apply to top managers?
 
TheLord said:
After the Levy firing, Pochettino has been jobless for nearly a year now. There are very few examples of modern managers coming back to win major silverware in an elite club after a prolonged sabbatical. Pep is the obvious exception (2012/13), but unlike Pochettino who cannot get a job, Pep wanted a year's break after the intense pressure at Barcelona.

After how long a break (joblessness) is a manager too rusty for a top job? Or does that concept not apply to top managers?
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Zidane and Conte both had a bit of time off before their most recent appointment I think.

Villas-Boas had a few years off and is doing a good job at Marseille.
 
duffer said:
Zidane and Conte both had a bit of time off before their most recent appointment I think.

Villas-Boas had a few years off and is doing a good job at Marseille.
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Oh, I forgot about Zidane, but again his was a case of 'taking some time off' rather than being fired from the job.
If managers like Conte, Zidane, Guardiola take a year off from management, they'd still have such an enviable CV to fall back on that many big clubs would rush for their signatures. IF Spurs fire Mourinho later in the season, he could still get a top job even though he's now a mere shadow of the crème de la crème he once was.

Back to my original point - I was wondering if top clubs will be reluctant to hire Pochettino, because, among other things, he has failed to get a job for a year? If not, how long after will that point be a major consideration?
 
Just out of curiosity....if we fire OGS now, which are the club's which would hire him?
 
RedBanker said:
Just out of curiosity....if we fire OGS now, which are the club's which would hire him?
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Among the top clubs in the top leagues: none.

In the premier league, I don't think any club would be interested, not even those in the bottom half of the table. I don't know about other clubs in Norway or those in the smaller leagues.
 
RedBanker said:
Just out of curiosity....if we fire OGS now, which are the club's which would hire him?
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Which top club would have hired Guardiola before he got the Barca job, Zidane before he got the Real job or Lampard before he got the Chelsea job?

All 3 got the jobs because they are successful ex-players who "know the club". Even moreso than the other 3, United are in more dire need for a return to "the United way".

Would any other top club in world football want Ole? Of course not. Is he the best coach or tactician in world football? Definitely not. But, most importantly, he is the coach that United needs right now.
 
What? Yeah, fine. Sure. For a year or two at least could get our players in shape at least.
 
starman said:
So what. Alderweireld and Trippier were already PL players. Dele has gone off the boil.
Nonsense to Poch lovers, a manager that's never won a trophy.
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Then who has Solskjaer signed that is so unknown?

You said Haaland at Molde. That isn't relevant at all.

Fernandes already moved to Serie A, Maguire and Bissaka both Pl players, Jam is rubbish. Nothing really to write home about.
 
TheLord said:
After the Levy firing, Pochettino has been jobless for nearly a year now. There are very few examples of modern managers coming back to win major silverware in an elite club after a prolonged sabbatical. Pep is the obvious exception (2012/13), but unlike Pochettino who cannot get a job, Pep wanted a year's break after the intense pressure at Barcelona.

After how long a break (joblessness) is a manager too rusty for a top job? Or does that concept not apply to top managers?
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He’ll be the next United or Chelsea manager. He’ll be fine plus they both have better squads and resources than he had at Spurs.
 
Untd55 said:
Then who has Solskjaer signed that is so unknown?

You said Haaland at Molde. That isn't relevant at all.

Fernandes already moved to Serie A, Maguire and Bissaka both Pl players, Jam is rubbish. Nothing really to write home about.
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How is Haaland irrelevant? I am not claiming OGS is master of finding talent, I am debunking some of the nonsense that gets made up about Poch, which grows his myth
 
VorZakone said:
What pressure cooker? We got fans writing off PL games as irrelevant and calling everything "rebuilding". And a board that's happy with just top 4.

The standards aren't as high as you think they are.
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So why get Pochettino? We already have Ole who got us third, realistically the best possible outcome with this board, and he‘s got the romantic bonus of being a club legend.
 
Kajus said:
So why get Pochettino? We already have Ole who got us third, realistically the best possible outcome with this board, and he‘s got the romantic bonus of being a club legend.
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I never said to get Poch. Don't think he is needed now.
 
We need a new manager, but I'm not sure it's this guy. Who else can we go for?
 
Nagelsmann, Pochettino, or Potter for me. Why not? Potter has made more of a team out of Brighton than Solskjaer has made of us.
 
I’m not advocating Ole getting sacked at this point but it would be typical of the club in recent years to sack him after Poch has found another club despite him being a free agent for a good while now.
 
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