He’s a decent manager, but I think a lot of United fans over romanticise him. Would he be better than Ole? Probably, would defo get more out of some players I think, especially the younger ones, but I don’t think he’s the one to get you to the level you want to be at...
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
I wouldn't say he was actively promoting himself for the job. In the same interview, he also said that everyone who knows him understands that he and Barcelona cannot be associated together.
Also, I believe he said this after Koeman's appointment (unless you're referring to a different interview).
Very good post, which uses actual facts to back up an argument.
I don't have the familiarity with Poch's record that you do. However, I don't feel that Pochettino is that great of a coach.
I always felt like Spurs were vulnerable to being got down the sides of, with the way that Poch pushed your fullbacks forwards without midfield cover. At the top level he simply never showed the know-how to win. To me he's not a coach of the level of Bielsa or Pep or Klopp.
I think the people calling for Poch after every bad Man Utd result are just deluding themselves into thinking the club doesn't have deeper problems. Its comforting, when things go bad, to think if you just change one thing everything will be wonderful . However, the sad truth is that United have a ton of problems and changing the manager isn't going to make Victor Lindelof into Alessandro Nesta etc.
Rather than getting rid of the first team coach, the biggest step forward United can take is to get rid of unwanted players who are taking up space on the wage bill. If we could free up some of that budget we would be able to sign some players to actually take us forward.
This one's a bit of myth. He's actually been terrible for spurs for this, and it's one of those utter bizarre labels that has no evidence.
Harry Redknapp doesn't have that reputation and yet was the one that gave all the lads their chances.
The annoyance for Spurs fans is an entire generation of exciting young players that he completely shut out, wouldn't loan out either (doesn't believe in loans for development) and so we had a haemorrhage of talent including the likes of Marcus Edwards and Reo Griffiths leaving.
Pochettino's main academy picks have been Winks, Skipp and Onomah - the latter sold by him. The unfortunate evidence would be that, under Poch, you wouldn't have had Greenwoods or Rashfords - he only seemed to really give chances to midfielders who ran around a lot, and wouldn't "play the kids" even under the duress that LVG, Mourinho and Solksjaer have. In that season we made no signings, he chose to run our key players in the ground match after match instead of mixing in some of the academy lads (often not even wanting to give Llorente a chance, never mind someone like Kaziah Sterling).
They mostly stopped this after his book was released. It is a key coincidence in the timeline of his decline. There were reports slowly leaking out over that time about how the players had started to get fed up of his methods. I think they could see that he basically contributed towards the premature physical decline of several players (including Wanyama and Dembele), and was crocking Kane by playing him in absolutely every minute possible.
I think it took 2 or 3 seasons for us to be called 'an exciting young team' to the excuses about how we were 'stale and needing a refresh'. Crazy really.
I think the key attribute is that he's too concerned about the aesthetics. The 'refreshing' interviews and pressers get very dull as it's all just "I am verry happy". Don't underestimate how much more refreshing it is for Mourinho to say "We were crap" when we were, rather than watch players playing crap and have the manager come out and say "I think we were unlucky and we play very good". The bigger issue is that he was never actually willing to intentionally play ugly football in order to get a result - that's what cost us trophies.
Top managers will park the bus if they need to, or essentially be completely happy with winning a game 1-0 with 1 shot all game if that's what they need to do. If you refuse to do it then you'll have to accept that you're probably not going to win anything. Liverpool have done it regularly but it's Liverpool so no one mentions it tbh.
I think that has been an important part of Klopp's development as a coach. Liverpool were a much more exciting team the year before they won the league. Last season they were less easy on the eye but repeatedly found a way to win. That was a key aspect of them winning the title. No doubt Liverpool can still play very good football but they are more than happy to be rubbish for an hour and then let Mane or Salah decide a game. At the end of the day the result is what counts and Liverpool have got that mindset back now...much as it hurts me to see.
Exactly that. Around this sort of time last year I recall they were getting battered by other teams but that TAA/Robertson switch seemed to sneak them a win so often. There were loads of games where they were so cack I think we all felt the slide was approaching, but it just never came.
And no one is going to say "yeah but they were rubbish" because they walked the league. It's one of Pep's biggest flaws at times, too. They would have made it to the CL final no doubt if he'd just have been as cold and efficient as to park the bus against spurs.
Pep just tries to be too clever and confuses his own team. After playing the same way, against all opponents, in big Champions League knockouts he changes everything out of nowhere. Suddenly, these players he's drilled like robots to repeat the same patterns and processes for 50 odd matches have to do something totally different. No wonder they always wet the bed. I don't think that's Poch's problem. I don't think Poch's teams play with anywhere near the same pre-programmed pattern as Pep's teams. I just think Poch is a coach who can play nice football and has a good idea about football but with whom there's no plan B, or even any scope for plan B.
Ah that's just the outsider view! He's had his moments, one famous one being to play Son as a LWB against Chelsea in the FA Cup semi we had a few years back. It took him 68 mins to change that (when it was 2-2) and then we went on to concede 2 more goals. All utterly strange behaviour that he liked to do at the most ridiculous times.
It's annoying that a lot of fans blame the ownership for the lack of trophies, and fans laud Poch, when he almost consistently did someone strange when we were near a final. Prior to the CL stuff it was telling them he'd quit if they won, and various other oddities that essentially are the opposite of what a good manager does.
How that topic is still a subject ?
Was always my No1 choice, still not seen anything else to convince me otherwise.
What?
What an absolute strawman.How is that called promoting? Plus, if Barcelona is in search of a manager, wouldn’t you do the same too?
So let’s use your logic for arguments sake. According to you, Poch isn’t good enough because Barca didn’t even consider him for the job. Do you think that Barca would even bat an eyelash at Ole?
Shouldn’t that speak volumes to you too? Ole is here and only here at our club for sentiments sake. You know it. Everyone knows it.He said it whilst Setien was rumoured to be on the verge of being sacked.
Not if I had previously stated that I would never go there due to loyalty to other clubs.What?
How is that called promoting? Plus, if Barcelona is in search of a manager, wouldn’t you do the same too?
So let’s use your logic for arguments sake. According to you, Poch isn’t good enough because Barca didn’t even consider him for the job. Do you think that Barca would even bat an eyelash at Ole?
A manager who backtracks on words like that is quite obviously trying to put themselves back in the frame. Not really a strawman point is it?
As for Ole, he's got nothing to do with Poch, he's won more than Poch has in his managerial career, but of course I'm sure you'll tell me Norwegian football doesn't count,
I'm sure Woodward and the Glazers thought they'd put a manager at the helm because it's be 'sentimental', I mean that's not strawman at all is it?
It's funny you use Barca choosing Ole, let's have a look at their previous managers shall we:
Pep: ex player, no major coaching experience other than Barca youth, Tito: the same as Pep, Lucho: failed at Roma, average season at Celta,
I mean, obviously sentimental choices there eh?
Okay, I was thinking of his more recent interview.
I just looked up the August one. He was asked to explain his previous comment (that he'd rather work on a farm than coach certain teams). His answer, as translated by Forbes, was "I did not want to disrespect Barcelona. I could have said things differently. Espanyol has made a name for me. But I’m not arrogant and I didn’t like making a statement like that. Maybe now I wouldn’t because in life you never know what will happen."
To me, it sounds more like he simply regretted how he had came off as arrogant or disrespectful. I guess it's possible to interpret this as him being open to the possibility of coaching Barcelona in the future (headline writers certainly did), but it's hard to argue that he was actively promoting himself for the job.
Put it this way, he could of carried on with the basis that he would never of managed Barca, instead he went back on them words and instead allowed himself to be an option for them.
It was rumoured before hand that he was on the list for Barca, I'm sure Poch was aware of this during the interview.
So whilst it's not tantamount to walking past the Nou Camp with a sandwich board on exclaiming interest in the job, it is definitely putting the feelers out that he was an option to consider.
Plus, if Barcelona is in search of a manager, wouldn’t you do the same too?
My general feeling in here is that there's not a deep knowledge of Pochettino, more so in this statement, so let me elaborate:
Pochettino was a key figure for Espanyol. He's considered to be something of a club legend as a player, but he obviously saved them from relegation and had famous wins over Barca in his first job as a manager there. Espanyol and Barcelona are rivals (same city of course). It's probably mild to even compare the rivalry to that of Spurs and Arsenal, but there's a historic Barcelona rivalry there anyway. He said this a few years ago:
"It is more than understood [that I will never take over]. My path and that of Barcelona are different, opposite directions. Coaching there would be impossible."
and
"I would never train Barcelona or Arsenal because I am tied to Tottenham. I grew up at Newell's and I would never train Rosario Central."
"This is my decision. I would prefer to work on my farm in Argentina than to go and work in certain places."
Earlier this year, when Setien was under pressure, he started saying:
"You have to explain it properly. I was in Barcelona that year and I found myself with Bartomeu in a bar. We said hello to each other because we took the kids to the same school and we chatted for five minutes. That caused a rumour that set alarm bells ringing because more clubs wanted us. When I asked, I wanted to end it there and then; I did not want to disrespect Barcelona."
“I did not want to disrespect Barcelona. I could have said things differently. Espanyol has made a name for me. But I’m not arrogant and I didn’t like making a statement like that. Maybe now I wouldn’t because in life you never know what will happen,”
Now it is completely obvious that the rivalry works both ways, so Barca would never accept him (certainly from the fan POV, because they do of course taking pettiness to a new level). It wouldn't have surprised me if Barca refused to have anything to do with Spurs whilst Poch was there even.
So, with all that being said, he would have garnered a bit more respect if he stuck to his guns and said "My opinion hasn't changed on the matter".
Of course it's difficult because Poch lives in Barca (or his preferential 'European' home was always there when he wasn't working), and he used to take the team to Barca for training camps for likely the fact that he feels like it's his second home, so when Espanyol are still a big step backwards I can see why Barca would appeal... but that just comes down to someone's character. It's easy to look honourable without the threat of temptation. I can easily say that Jennifer Lawrence isn't my type, but if she 'Red Sparrow-ed' me then you'd soon see the full extent of my character
Of course it's difficult because Poch lives in Barca (or his preferential 'European' home was always there when he wasn't working), and he used to take the team to Barca for training camps for likely the fact that he feels like it's his second home, so when Espanyol are still a big step backwards I can see why Barca would appeal... but that just comes down to someone's character. It's easy to look honourable without the threat of temptation. I can easily say that Jennifer Lawrence isn't my type, but if she 'Red Sparrow-ed' me then you'd soon see the full extent of my character
I'd argue that you didn't just say Jennifer Lawrence isn't your type, but that you'd rather be celibate than have sex with her, and now forced to say that you regret those words when you realised you two live on the same street. It doesn't mean you now long to be with her, and she's probably not going to interpret it as an open invitation to seduce.
We will just have to disagree on what he meant then.
Does it really matter though? My interpretation doesn't mean he's a good coach, and, respectfully, I don't think yours would prove he's a bad one either.
I think the first part of this is right. However, based on what was coming out of Spain the weekend before Koeman got appointed Poch was a sure thing for the job. Then Bartomeu started seeing the backlash due to Poch's past comments and walked back the contact.
So its more like you slagged off Jennifer Lawrence, then you ended up being neighbours, hit it off, she invites you over for a nightcap, goes into the bedroom to slip into something more comfortable. Then while changing she checks her phone, sees you have been tweeting crap about her and comes back and tells you to get out cos it aint happening.
So he worked hard at Spurs, did not win any trophies. Did not get backed by Levy to build on the team he had taken forward. Imploded and got sacked.
And has been jobless since.
And suddenly he is ok for Man Utd where he is expected to win trophies and, as per recent experiences, should fully expect that the board will support him in one summer and ditch him in next summer.
And has been jobless since.
And suddenly he is ok for Man Utd where he is expected to win trophies and, as per recent experiences, should fully expect that the board will support him in one summer and ditch him in next summer.
It isn't really just interpretation - I posted a lot of evidence to support it but, as mentioned, people just prefer to ignore that and believe that he's some sort of mega-coach that, for some strange reason, covering a really odd time where all of the top teams pretty much could have taken him if they wanted, no one has hired.
The interpretation of him being 'a good coach' is based, for the most part, on casual observance.
He's also tried to be conservative, Spurs under him played some dirty football at times. I just think he's just not good enough for the European royals, Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Juventus and Barcelona. Maybe at the Milan clubs in recent times he could've done a job.
He's Sarri level. Unai Emery who is not as heralded for example has a bigger legacy than him.
A league in Norway is still a championship. Every great manager has won a league in their home country, The jury is still out on Ole but don't knock him for winning. A winning mentality is the same no matter the stakes, Poch has not shown this once in his career.
Which is weird, as Emery has won a whole ruck of trophies, and has posted good numbers at pretty much all his jobs. Ancellotti is the same really. I think he's second only to SAF in major honours, but ends up in jobs like Napoli and Everton who, with respect, are not jobs that managers of his stature are usually willing to take.
I was actually thinking this morning that Zidane is mostly ignored as a manager, and wondered whether he would get a bit forgotten over time in general footballing terms, despite sharing company with Ancelotti and Paisley as the most ECLs won as a manager.
No one's going to win Spurs anything.
As for not winning major honors, neither has Ole, unless you want to count his time with Molde. I bet he brings some style to the team first of all, and build a competitive team who will come close to competing at least.
The style of play that got us the most points between between Bruno's debut and that win at Leicester on final day? The style of play that beat Pep 3 times in one season, Lampard 3 times and only lost 1 PL game against any of the top 6 which was Liverpool away?
That style of play?
Get behind our manager !!!
Same! Well, he was my number 2 to replace Fergie behind Pep, but after that became a no-go he's been the manager I've wanted here most since 2013.
Huh? Do some clubs have some kind of divine right on the trophies? Spurs made it to CL finals. Could have won it if Pool had a bad day.
Yeah I can see why. He plays the United way and when you consider what he did at Spurs with virtually no money off that tight cnut Levy he did well despite winning nothing.
I also think Kane would come to United if we got him. I'm dreaming though as the board appear to be happy with Ole at the wheel.
I agree to disagree and carry on our lives!
Also, How can Jennifer Lawrence not be anyone's type? She's something else that lass.
Good post and one a lot of Pochettino dreamers could do with reading
If you had to choose him or Nagglesman?
For the club we now are - Glazer run and profit focused - I don't see why he'd come here although he'd be the perfect candidate for the job. What so many posters don't seem to grasp is we're miles away from winning anything meaningful so the fact Pochettino has won nothing is completely irrelevant. He has a track record of imprinting his style of play onto a team and that's what I most want to see because to have a 'rebuild' something actually has to be built and I'd say since LVG left and his style was abandoned, we've been a very reactive, counter dependent team without much structure.
Let's ignore the Spurs fans and Southampton fans and just go by our gut feelings
Poch got lucky that while he was at spurs the other so called top teams were going through bad patches which allowed him to sneak in through an open door, just still couldn’t make it. Harry Redknapp was more impressive for spurs
So get Poch in, few seasons without winning anything but we get a style of play then he gets sacked and we start again? Like spurs have had to do after him
Spurs fans were openly saying he didn't have a cutting edge that would see him amongst the elite, which is where they wanted to be.Let's ignore the Spurs fans and Southampton fans and just go by our gut feelings
It’s crazyLet's ignore the Spurs fans and Southampton fans and just go by our gut feelings
Poch Carried on what Atkins and Redknapp had already been doing. You’d swear reading some posts that both those teams didn’t exist before Poch turned up.
Poch lucked out with the emergence of Kane too. What would Spurs have achieved in those years without Kane?
Almost sounding like you want us to continue the not winning trophy "Errr...itage"