A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Amadaeus said:


Congratulations to Pochettino. I can’t recall when a Spurs manager was ever nominated for this :lol:. If you put everything into context, He should win this. The other managers nominated bought there way into this slot. Pochettino actually built his success with limited resource.
Click to expand...

Wrong to put Klopp into that category.
 
Amadaeus said:


Congratulations to Pochettino. I can’t recall when a Spurs manager was ever nominated for this :lol:. If you put everything into context, He should win this. The other managers nominated bought there way into this slot. Pochettino actually built his success with limited resource. That is why Pochettino should made priority at United. We will give him as good a resource as Klopp and Pep gets from their respected teams.
Click to expand...


Such as the context that he lost thirteen league games and his "success" saw him win the same amount of trophies as Huddersfield Town did that season ;)
 
Personally think Erik Ten Hag deserved a nomination over Pochettino.

Won trophies, was seconds away from being a CL finalist instead of Poch, and his team played mesmerising football whilst claiming some huge scalps.

All that considering the budget Ajax have to work with is hugely impressive.
 
BobbyManc said:
Such as the context that he lost thirteen league games and his "success" saw him win the same amount of trophies as Huddersfield Town did that season ;)
Click to expand...

If he had the resource to spend £200m on just fullbacks, his record would be better than Pep. However, he is restricted in that regards and with a budget similar to Newcastle, Everton, and West Ham, his team should be compared to those.
 
Amadaeus said:
If he had the resource to spend £200m on just fullbacks, his record would be better than Pep. However, he is restricted in that regards and with a budget similar to Newcastle, Everton, and West Ham, his team should be compared to those.
Click to expand...

Big word that, mate. Yeah, let us compare a side with Kane, Eriksen, Lloris, Son, Alli, Alderweireld etc to to teams with Dwight Gayle, Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Javier Hernandez leading the line. That's a fair way to evaluate Pochettino. Let's follow your line of argument further and claim that Sean Dyche is a better manager than both Pep and Pochettino because he's had nothing like the resources at this disposal that they've had yet he's kept Burnley in the league year after year with players like Jeff fecking Hendrick featuring regularly.
 
Amadaeus said:


Congratulations to Pochettino. I can’t recall when a Spurs manager was ever nominated for this :lol:. If you put everything into context, He should win this. The other managers nominated bought there way into this slot. Pochettino actually built his success with limited resource. That is why Pochettino should made priority at United. We will give him as good a resource as Klopp and Pep gets from their respected teams.
Click to expand...


Relax, ma'am! We all know you love your son and want him to manage the best club in England.
 
Poch has the most flip flops of any manager. One minute people think he is overrated and would not want him at United, then he does something to make everyone start drooling over him. He is at the stage again where people are doubting his credentials, based off Spurs start, so we'll see see in a moment
 
Amadaeus said:
If he had the resource to spend £200m on just fullbacks, his record would be better than Pep. However, he is restricted in that regards and with a budget similar to Newcastle, Everton, and West Ham, his team should be compared to those.
Click to expand...

Klopp and pochettino net spend is almost equal since his arrival.
 
JDoe said:
Klopp and pochettino net spend is almost equal since his arrival.
Click to expand...
As I stated before, net spend is irrelevant when it comes to a club purchasing power. Liverpool has spent significantly much more than Spurs in the past few years. Net spend argument just shows that the club has done well buying and selling players for a good profit. Liverpool is a club that has done some good business, but what matters the most is that Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City and Manchester United has spent so much more on players than Spurs. Spurs should not even be top four with such lack of spending.

BobbyManc said:
Big word that, mate. Yeah, let us compare a side with Kane, Eriksen, Lloris, Son, Alli, Alderweireld etc to to teams with Dwight Gayle, Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Javier Hernandez leading the line. That's a fair way to evaluate Pochettino. Let's follow your line of argument further and claim that Sean Dyche is a better manager than both Pep and Pochettino because he's had nothing like the resources at this disposal that they've had yet he's kept Burnley in the league year after year with players like Jeff fecking Hendrick featuring regularly.
Click to expand...

Yea, because when Pochettino first arrived these players you mentioned was already big names players /sarcasm.

Pochettino team then was filled with average individuals when he first arrived. No different than the likes of some of those average players you mentioned. No big club would even look twice at most of the players at his team. It was through his man management abilities that we see the likes of Ali, Son, Eriksen, Trippier, Sissoko, Dembele, Kane, Winks, And so on turn into great/good team players for Spurs. Same way we see Klopp turned players like Henderson, Milner, Salah, Mane, and Wiljanaldum into top/good players.

The only difference is that Pochettino couldn’t add elite players to his team like Klopp could with Van Dijk, Fabinho, and Keita. Moreover, the infrastructure for players development at Liverpool is much greater than Spurs because Liverpool is/has always been a much bigger club than Spurs. Give Pochettino similar spending power and resources and you would have seen the likes of Dybala and Cancelo at Spurs who would improve them significantly.
 
romufc said:
He had like 3/4 world class talents who this season are starting for Barcelona and Juventus.
Click to expand...

He had 2. Only De Ligt and Frenkie De Jong are world class talents from that Ajax team, the rest are very good/decent players like Tadic, Ziyech, Neres etc and he had them playing the best football in the competition.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
He had 2. Only De Ligt and Frenkie De Jong are world class talents from that Ajax team, the rest are very good/decent players like Tadic, Ziyech, Neres etc and he had them playing the best football in the competition.
Click to expand...

de Ligt and de Jong made them names under him too not many people knew too much about them just there potentially talented.
 
Amadaeus said:
As I stated before, net spend is irrelevant when it comes to a club purchasing power. Liverpool has spent significantly much more than Spurs in the past few years. Net spend argument just shows that the club has done well buying and selling players for a good profit. Liverpool is a club that has done some good business, but what matters the most is that Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City and Manchester United has spent so much more on players than Spurs. Spurs should not even be top four with such lack of spending.



Yea, because when Pochettino first arrived these players you mentioned was already big names players /sarcasm.

Pochettino team then was filled with average individuals when he first arrived. No different than the likes of some of those average players you mentioned. No big club would even look twice at most of the players at his team. It was through his man management abilities that we see the likes of Ali, Son, Eriksen, Trippier, Sissoko, Dembele, Kane, Winks, And so on turn into great/good team players for Spurs. Same way we see Klopp turned players like Henderson, Milner, Salah, Mane, and Wiljanaldum into top/good players.

The only difference is that Pochettino couldn’t add elite players to his team like Klopp could with Van Dijk, Fabinho, and Keita. Moreover, the infrastructure for players development at Liverpool is much greater than Spurs because Liverpool is/has always been a much bigger club than Spurs. Give Pochettino similar spending power and resources and you would have seen the likes of Dybala and Cancelo at Spurs who would improve them significantly.
Click to expand...
Spurs net spend under Pochettino is low relative to their success because they had acquired a good young squad prior to him bring hired. The cost of recruiting a Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Rose, Walker, Lloris, Alli (£5m just as he started) would have been astronomical in more recent years.

Spurs finished on 69 points with said players in 13/14 under Villa's Boas and Sherwood. 64 points in their first season under Poch.
 
Leftback99 said:
Spurs finished on 69 points with said players in 13/14 under Villa's Boas and Sherwood. 64 points in their first season under Poch.
Click to expand...


Yes, but we reached a cup final and also went up a place in the table and closed the gap on the top 4.

All whilst going through a big old clear out of the squad and establishing a new style. It was a mixed bag but overall a good first season.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Yes, but we reached a cup final and also went up a place in the table and closed the gap on the top 4.

All whilst going through a big old clear out of the squad and establishing a new style. It was a mixed bag but overall a good first season.
Click to expand...
No doubt he's gone on to be a success. My point on net spend stands though.

It's an interesting comparison to what we are going through now looking at how he started. He had 14 points from his first 11 games, sitting 12th in the table before significant improvement over the rest of the season.
 
Leftback99 said:
No doubt he's gone on to be a success. My point on net spend stands though.

It's an interesting comparison to what we are going through now looking at how he started. He had 14 points from his first 11 games, sitting 12th in the table before significant improvement over the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

Ole has had half a season with the team + over 100m+ of signings though. You'd expect a better start from him than the one Poch had on a shoestring budget and with his first season in charge.

I get your general point though, and I do think Ole needs time to clear out the deadwood and stamp his style on the team. It's whether or not people trust that he has the ability to deserve that time.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Ole has had half a season with the team + over 100m+ of signings though. You'd expect a better start from him than the one Poch had on a shoestring budget and with his first season in charge.

I get your general point though, and I do think Ole needs time to clear out the deadwood and stamp his style on the team. It's whether or not people trust that he has the ability to deserve that time.
Click to expand...
Poch had as many quality players to start with as Ole does now, a big reason for the low net spend compared to on field results.
 
JDoe said:
Klopp and pochettino net spend is almost equal since his arrival.
Click to expand...

And Klopp has a far higher wage budget. So far more scope to bring in the targets he really wants. He wants a top keeper? A top cb? Off he goes in to the market and slaps huge wages on the table.

Pochettino cannot do that. Thus he still has had less resources despite their 'net spend' being similar.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
What players when Pochettino took over do you think were widely considered quality?
Click to expand...
Many were young but highly rated (or at least sellable rather than ageing and close to retirement), Eriksen, Vertonghen, Lloris, Rose, Walker, Lamela. Dembele was excellent for Fulham.
 
Leftback99 said:
Many were young but highly rated (or at least sellable rather than ageing and close to retirement), Eriksen, Vertonghen, Lloris, Rose, Walker, Lamela. Dembele was excellent for Fulham.
Click to expand...

These two were a mess before Poch got his hands on them, especially Rose :lol:
 
Leftback99 said:
Many were young but highly rated (or at least sellable rather than ageing and close to retirement), Eriksen, Vertonghen, Lloris, Rose, Walker, Lamela. Dembele was excellent for Fulham.
Click to expand...


Eriksen was a talented but inconsistent attacking mid, not considered one of the best in the league. Vertonghen was good but had basically one great season at the club under his belt (his debut season) and otherwise dodgy .. Lloris was again, very inconsistent and not considered among the very best in the league, both Rose & Walker were routinely mocked by opposition fans as not being good enough. Lamela was a complete and total flop and Dembele wasn't far behind.

Now, did some of these players have real talent? Sure. But they were completely failing to realise that till Poch arrived, and it's only now in hindsight people can appreciate them for what they are. Plenty of our own fans had given up on the players you listed and nobody would have considered them regular top 4 level players, maybe aside from Eriksen.
 
Leftback99 said:
The might have been to you. I was impressed by Rose hen he was on loan at Sunderland and Vertonghen stood out at Ajax like Eriksen.
Click to expand...

Rose might have impressed at Sunderland but my god he was all over the place under AVB/Sherwood most of the time. Poch turned him in to a genuinely great wing back and arguably the best in the prem pre-injury.

Vertonghen clearly had ability but there were massive questions over his actual ability to defend whilst at the club. Even in his first season he stood out more for his ability on the ball rather than being defensively great.

Sure, a manager needs talented players, even Guardiola can't do shit without ability. But it's not like he was handed a cheque to go out and cherry pick players like Klopp or Pep, and it's not like he started out with Aguero, De Bruyne etc either. These players became big, reliable players under him, not beforehand.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Eriksen was a talented but inconsistent attacking mid, not considered one of the best in the league. Vertonghen was good but had basically one great season at the club under his belt (his debut season) and otherwise dodgy .. Lloris was again, very inconsistent and not considered among the very best in the league, both Rose & Walker were routinely mocked by opposition fans as not being good enough. Lamela was a complete and total flop and Dembele wasn't far behind.

Now, did some of these players have real talent? Sure. But they were completely failing to realise that till Poch arrived, and it's only now in hindsight people can appreciate them for what they are. Plenty of our own fans had given up on the players you listed and nobody would have considered them regular top 4 level players, maybe aside from Eriksen.
Click to expand...
It wasn't perfect but there was definite talent there. Inconsistency is what you get with a young and improving squad. 69 points the season before is evidence they were on the right track.
 
Leftback99 said:
It wasn't perfect but there was definite talent there. Inconsistency is what you get with a young and improving squad. 69 points the season before is evidence they were on the right track.
Click to expand...

Our points tally flattered us a bit that season imo. We went pretty attacking and got a decent amount of points against the bottom half as a result, but we also got some embarrassing hammerings and our defensive record was more than a bit questionable. We finished below Everton that season and were 10 points outside the top 4, so whilst the points tally looks really impressive on paper, in reality we were still far off the top sides and a very disjointed, inconsistent side.

Some of the players you mentioned weren't even regular starters at that point. We still had some of the new signings/old guard playing like Soldado, Chadli, Paulinho, Sigurdsson, Adebayor, Dawson .. and then some guys like Naughton, Lennon, Bentaleb, Townsend were also getting game time. It was a weird mix of players mainly signed under AVB or left over from Redknapp, and it was very difficult to mould in to a genuine team.

Was there some talent in the side? Sure, but that talent was very hard to identify, and was playing alongside some absolutely terrible players. Orchestrating a huge clear out and stamping a genuine style on that team was obviously going to take serious time without some serious money to throw around (which Poch didn't have) and he did that exceptionally well.

Does Ole have a similar task? I think in some respects, yes. You do have plenty of deadwood. But you do also have more established top talents than Poch did when he took over, more budget to work with as a manager/more pull, and even your deadwood are pretty much all fully established internationals. So whilst time is still needed (and should pretty much always be given to a manager in his first full season) the expectations are obviously higher than we had for Poch.
 
Anyone criticising Poch is wrong and it's not surprising considering half of our silly fan base wanted to give Ole the job after 8 or so games in charge. It just proves that people's perspectives are subject to what's happening now as opposed to being more objective.

In Poch's time at Tottenham he's overreached his expectations. Look at the concensus when Jose first came here, the impetus was on Mourinho and Guardiola to battle it out for domestic success over the years and Mauricio along with Klopp have been dark horses. He's broken spurs through the top six barriers to the top three. Levy has massively underspent in the last five years, all of the club's recent successes stem from the management by way of recruitment and tactical acumen it's impossible to look beyond that. He's cultivated his players and has coached most of the first team into a solid foundation of players. The likes of Sissoko, Winks, Kane, Alli, Moura and Son have improved under his guidance. This is where you can truly see the class in managers, how many players have improved since arriving at our club ? Klopp has improved at least 60% of the players at his team, Guardiola the same. In 10 years despite Solskjaer, Mourinho and Moyes the only coach we have witnessed improvement with individual players is LVG due to his credentials as a coach (Rooney clearly highlighted) the issue was tactically we was limited.

If Poch became available and it was remotely possible for us to appoint him the club would be stupid not to oblige. I just think personally he will either get a call from Madrid if they don't approach someone like Jürgen before his supposed sabbatical.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
He had 2. Only De Ligt and Frenkie De Jong are world class talents from that Ajax team, the rest are very good/decent players like Tadic, Ziyech, Neres etc and he had them playing the best football in the competition.
Click to expand...

Spurs have 2 too. And they got to Champions League Final.
 
What is going on there? On skybet he is now favourite for resigning/sacking( same odds as Ole):confused:

@balaks , @GlastonSpur . What is going on? Or just media bs?
 
Last edited:
Andycoleno9 said:
What is going on there? On skybet he is now favourite for resigning/sacking( same odds as Ole):confused:
Click to expand...
If it is even slightly true we should do everything in our power to get him, even if it meant sacking Ole. It could also mean our best player (Pogba) would consider staying.
 
3KDré said:
If it is even slightly true we should do everything in our power to get him, even if it meant sacking Ole. It could also mean our best player (Pogba) would consider staying.
Click to expand...
Something is going on there, for sure. Maybe he wants new challenge? Who knows.
Yeah, if there is any chance for signing him, we should be all over it.
 
Apart from winning a domestic cup, I’m not too sure how much further he can take Spurs. He probably does feel a bit jaded.
 
BobbyManc said:
SkyBet odds on transfers/managers are about as reliable as getting an Octopus to pick World Cup scores
Click to expand...
It is not only skybet. All bookies have nearly same odds. They live on odds so i guess they know something.
 
Last edited:
Andycoleno9 said:
What is going on there? On skybet he is now favourite for resigning/sacking( same odds as Ole):confused:
Click to expand...

Not keeping my hopes up that this actually happens. Pochettino May have come to a realization that the gap is to large for him to close without proper backing. I don’t believe he can take this Spurs team any farther. Maybe a lucky domestic cup win, with a top four place and a good champions league run. However, I doubt they will be in a champions league final anytime soon with or without Pochettino. Winning a domestic cup can be luck based, so perhaps Spurs can win that if they get a Man City esque favorable draws.

Regardless, the only way I see him leaving Spurs at the moment is if he has been tapped up by a bigger club. I don’t believe he will just walk out without a reason. I also doubt believe that levy will sack him because he won’t get a manager that will do as much with very little. Unless, like Arsenal with Emery, they decide to back the new manager more than the previous one in the market.

All in all, I don’t believe any of this. It will be interesting to see how Spurs do cope post Pochettino era. Most of these players are very loyal to Poch as he had a hand in their development. If he does leave, United should take advantage of this dysfunction. I would love a few players from that team.
 
I think he'll just be mentally a bit drained, it must be strange sensation because Spurs have done so well but major trophies still seem so far away. Sadly though, I can't see why he'd come to United when I think he'd have nice options across the Continent and he doesn't have any link to us, it's just that we have loads of cash and history and, somewhat arrogantly, think he'd like to be here.

Randomly, I actually feel he's most likely to end up at City of the all the PL clubs. Pep staying in the PL long term has always been a big ? for me and Poch, unless he wants the chaos of RM, the rebuild of United or maybe the easy option of someone like Bayern, would have earned the ability to walk into a near perfect squad and near limitless resources.
 
Amadaeus said:
Not keeping my hopes up that this actually happens. Pochettino May have come to a realization that the gap is to large for him to close without proper backing. I don’t believe he can take this Spurs team any farther. Maybe a lucky domestic cup win, with a top four place and a good champions league run. However, I doubt they will be in a champions league final anytime soon with or without Pochettino. Winning a domestic cup can be luck based, so perhaps Spurs can win that if they get a Man City esque favorable draws.

Regardless, the only way I see him leaving Spurs at the moment is if he has been tapped up by a bigger club. I don’t believe he will just walk out without a reason. I also doubt believe that levy will sack him because he won’t get a manager that will do as much with very little. Unless, like Arsenal with Emery, they decide to back the new manager more than the previous one in the market.

All in all, I don’t believe any of this. It will be interesting to see how Spurs do cope post Pochettino era. Most of these players are very loyal to Poch as he had a hand in their development. If he does leave, United should take advantage of this dysfunction. I would love a few players from that team.
Click to expand...


Pochettino has been backed in the market this summer. His top two targets (Lo Celso and Ndombele) were signed, and he got a player he's been interested in for a while (Sessegnon). I've complained massively in the past about our transfer business, but it'd be weird if he 'suddenly realised' we were limited in the market when we signed 3 players and got deep in to negotiations with Dybala & Fernandes. Money was spent.

As for the pure delusion that somehow you could just take a few players from us, stop it. Levy would fight tooth and nail over even one player, let alone more than that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.