Drop your only world class player?
A new golden generation for England?
- Thread starter The Boy
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2 very attacking full backs, 2 very attacking wingers, 2 strikers & 2 of the 4 defensive players are slow. We’d get absolutely murdered on the counter against any decent side.
I think Gomes/Maguire could be a good partnership and England are fine at full back. Central midfield is the big issue. Foden may solve some of that but what England would do for a prime Michael Carrick right now. Funny how things work out.
Foden is an attacking midfielder. He’s in the same bracket as Maddison, Mount, Grealish, Barkley, Alli, etc. We have too many of them.
Doubt it. Henderson and Rice cover enough ground. There’s no point in playing an extra midfielder for the sake of having a 3 man midfield
Kane will score goals for England against the minnows, but I think England would look a better side without him in it.
I think he’ll end up playing deeper.
Crazy talk. You guys are incredibly lucky to have Kane, one of the best strikers in the world, yet you would have him out of the team. Do you realize how insane that sounds? He is by far your best player.
Who would play centre forward in a 3 without Kane? Because if you say Rashford... As United fans we know that’s not a good idea. Love our Marcus but he ain’t exactly a natural finisher is he. Cutting in from the left is where he belongs. I’d go as far to say he’s virtually ineffective as CF in a 3.
Playing with both Rice and Phillips with three CBs behind them against Denmark almost makes me think Southgate his underrating is own team.
I'd rather go for an attacking 4-3-3:
GK: Pickford, Henderson, Pope
RB: TAA, James, AWB
2 CBs: Gomez, Maguire, Stones, Tomori
LB: Chilwell, Saka
DM: Rice, Phillips
RCM: Mount, Madison
LCM: Foden, Grealish
RW: Sancho, CHO
LW: Sterling, Rashford
ST: Kane, Greenwood
There's a young team with plenty of options that should be able to control games, as well as having enough quality in the final third.
I'd rather go for an attacking 4-3-3:
GK: Pickford, Henderson, Pope
RB: TAA, James, AWB
2 CBs: Gomez, Maguire, Stones, Tomori
LB: Chilwell, Saka
DM: Rice, Phillips
RCM: Mount, Madison
LCM: Foden, Grealish
RW: Sancho, CHO
LW: Sterling, Rashford
ST: Kane, Greenwood
There's a young team with plenty of options that should be able to control games, as well as having enough quality in the final third.
Why do Spurs fans have this weird trait where they constantly want Kane to be England's only "world class" player, is it to feel like Spurs are supremely important? Sterling's a 31 goal winger, he's about as "world class" as you're going to get.
Kane is arguably top 3 in his position in the world. That to me is world class. Sterling is very good but he isn't at that level.
It's available. Southgate inexplicably deciding not to play those players needed to release one of the most potent attacking performances in world football doesn't make the bunch any less talented. Eventually he'll figure it out. He'll eventually understand a Grealish/Maddison/Mount needs to be involved in order to get the best out of our front three, whomever it maybe.
And TAA (spit) is the best attacking fullback in world football.
To be fair i forgot about him, he has more of an argument than Sterling imo
Course he is, scored 23, 25 and 31 goals from the wing over the last few seasons. 2nd best player for one of the PL's best ever sides, he's a force of nature.
Yeah, absolutely, my anti-Liverpool bias made me ignore him.
Trent and Robertson seem to be struggling outside of Klopp’s system.
thats potentially a stack load of talent. Compares well with other major countries.
I think it's the first time I've ever admitted it. I'll give it 24 hours and then I'll delete the post.
Understandably. Klopp system use the whole team to press as defending mechanism. At club level, they can purchase players that fit the profile. In national team, the dynamism change. Require more adaptability to play with teammates you don't train with on regular basis. Players have more burden. Hell, even team like that Spain NT with the backbone of Barcelona, couldn't fully emulate the attacking prowess of their Barcelona.
This is the very reason, some players for their abilities to perform in different set up and becoming the star of the team in big international tournament is considered even more special.
I'll delete mine quoting you so we can properly bury the evidence.
We're such good supporters.
Sterling is world class too.
Southgate is ridiculously defensive. In essence, he played seven defenders against Denmark.
He seems to have something against players who can play as attacking midfielders. He refused to play Maddison, now he is refusing to play Grealish. He barely plays Mount, and if he does, it is on the wing. I absolutely hate the formation.
How on earth did Phillips get his debut before Grealish?
Every single time he has played two defensive midfielders, we have played like crap. Yet, he keeps on persisting with it. He is trying to be too clever and it isn't working.
With the formation he is playing, we cannot take advantage of our best players and positions. Needs to go if he doesn't go for a more attacking formation.
He seems to have something against players who can play as attacking midfielders. He refused to play Maddison, now he is refusing to play Grealish. He barely plays Mount, and if he does, it is on the wing. I absolutely hate the formation.
How on earth did Phillips get his debut before Grealish?
Every single time he has played two defensive midfielders, we have played like crap. Yet, he keeps on persisting with it. He is trying to be too clever and it isn't working.
With the formation he is playing, we cannot take advantage of our best players and positions. Needs to go if he doesn't go for a more attacking formation.
He can't coach possession, passing and movement. So he sets up defensively and hopes that the difference in individual quality will make the difference.
I agree. Kane is a brilliant target man and striker but we would be a better team without any one single focal point. Having him there limits the fluidity across the front line. Same reason i don't want us to buy him from Spurs.
Now is the time he should be experimenting with formations and tactics. We're playing glorified friendlies in a competition that may very well never finish. Try a front line without Kane. Try a more attacking and balanced midfield 3. What we are doing now is doomed to failure.
I am convinced that Southgate does not like flair. This England team has some very good players. He done it at the World cup by consistently not playing Rashford.
He is doing the same with Grealish, Maddison, Mount.
He also has some kind of loyalty to Kane and Sterling because they are never dropped.
There was a chance to have a look at Henderson in goal as well, he had a better season than Pickford. Sometimes, it feels he is picking the team based on who he likes rather than who plays well.
. .Henderson
Trent Gomez Maguire Chilwel
Rice
Maddison Grealish
Sanchoo Kane Rashford
That would be the team I would go with.
He is doing the same with Grealish, Maddison, Mount.
He also has some kind of loyalty to Kane and Sterling because they are never dropped.
There was a chance to have a look at Henderson in goal as well, he had a better season than Pickford. Sometimes, it feels he is picking the team based on who he likes rather than who plays well.
. .Henderson
Trent Gomez Maguire Chilwel
Rice
Maddison Grealish
Sanchoo Kane Rashford
That would be the team I would go with.
I'd possibly consider the likes of Foden, Ox, RLC, Barkley, Dele or Mount in place of Maddison or Grealish, depending on form, but I think this premise is how we should be approaching it.
Even in the tough games I think it's also fine to play a 433 with Henderson in midfield and Rice holding, similar to how he operates with Fabinho.
I think the real issue is the lack of alternatives to Rice and Henderson. The other more defensive/deeper midfielders are the likes of Ward-Prowse, Phillips, Dier and Winks. Not sure of any younger players coming through either, hence why I think Southgate picked someone like Phillips without having played in the PL.
The lack of good CB options is also an issue, but I think they are average options rather than terrible.
Even if I disagreed with you I wouldn't voice it.I'm not deleting that post. And I disagree, Alphonso Davies is.
On a serious note, TAA being world class is quite obvious. Would it be too much to put him near the likes of Dani Alves and Marcelo in the past decade?
Probably wait a while before this kind of statement? He's a midfielder playing at full back in a team set up to maximize his creativity and minimize his defensive flaws. His performances with the England shirt are lacklustre at best. So far he's proven that he's a great player in one specific set-up.
But I believe that Marcelo and Dani Alves had similar defensive flaws, I don't consider that they were perfect or even complete but elite going forward.
Dani Alves is one of a kind and he basically conquer the entire right side of the field on his own for 10 years. I am not even sure if Cafu at his prime is as good as Alves. His status as a wing back is just like makelele as a DM. I will wait until TAA reach age 33 before doing comparison with Dani Alves.
Cafu was considerably better defensively, he was in my opinion clearly better.
We have a staggeringly exciting crop of youngsters at the moment. It's typical of England that we manage to make them look boring and shit. This is exactly why I stopped watching England.
I don't agree that Dani Alves's flaws were similar to TAA's, especially considering he played for a long time with Messi ahead of him offering no cover whatsoever. He was a beast.
Marcelo is an interesting comparison though, but I've never really considered Marcelo world class, just a really good attacking fullback who suited the style of his team at the time extremely well. Though I could certainly understand the opposing view.
The issue for Southgate is trying to shoehorn in Sterling, Kane and Sancho while not trusting to play a back 4.
If 3 at the back is his preference, he either needs midfielders with the same capabilities in defence as in attack if playing 3-4-3 or needs to drop one of Sancho or Sterling to play 3-5-2
Theres no CMs that are equal in defence and attack available, so probably would need to drop one of the front 3 and can than play a AM and make use of Grealish, Mount or Maddison.
If 3 at the back is his preference, he either needs midfielders with the same capabilities in defence as in attack if playing 3-4-3 or needs to drop one of Sancho or Sterling to play 3-5-2
Theres no CMs that are equal in defence and attack available, so probably would need to drop one of the front 3 and can than play a AM and make use of Grealish, Mount or Maddison.
Alves had the same issues and Barcelona mainly fixed it by essentially playing with a back three during their attacking phase, at first with Abida moving inside from his left back position and later with Busquets dropping deep when Alba-Alves were pushing up.
There is no reason that England can't play a system that fits TAA and a LB to excel like he does at Liverpool. Our wingers - Rashford, Sterling, Sancho etc are capable of cutting inside and giving space for the fullbacks, there is Henderson and then Rice can play the Fabinho role, which leaves someone like Mount/Grealish etc to pick up that extra spot. Southgate is awful.
Agreed. When you have the chance to have several starters that are playing for the same team and that it happens to be the best team in the country, you base your setup on it.