5th Best player of all time

Berbaclass said:
He’d definitely be up there for me for sure. Kaka just had a bigger impact on me personally. I’ll always remember watching Ronaldinho against Chelsea at the Bridge.
Click to expand...
Kakas game vs Utd was ridiculous and definitely made me think he was on another level to us at the time.

And he had a great few years from 05-07 but I kind of remember disappearing in more games than he stared in after that. (Especially for Real)

I'd trade a peak Kaka for a peak Ronaldinho any day
 
harms said:
I think 3 brilliant international tournaments (1982, 1984 and 1986) secured his legacy even more than his performances for Juve. His 1984 Euro is simply the best there is and personally I'd rate his 1982 and 1986 tournaments ahead of Ronaldinho's 2002. And his non-peak years were better than Ronaldinho's (although at their absolute best I'd pick Goofy).
Click to expand...
Yeah I'd agree with that.

It's very hard to rank some of the best players and you are bound to forget someone in the process. Ultimately it's down to personal preference as there isn't an universal criteria or even same playing field considering they play for less/more dominant national and club teams(and different era's).

The top 7 for me is definitely set tho - Pele, Maradona, Messi, Di Stefano, Cristiano, Cruyff, Beckenbauer. Rest is up for debate...
 
damageinc. said:
How many people here have the real knowledge of the Whole football history and knowing the singular footballers of any era?
Click to expand...

I'd say many people have done their due diligence in reading fan and player accounts, watching the footage, and so on, in order to rate players they haven't seen. I mean, that's literally what history entails. Utilizing primary and secondary sources as tools to shed some light on what past happenings were.

So the snipes at "people who didn't see them play" are ignorant.
 
I'll go with tiers too:

Tier 0: Pele
Tier 1: Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona
Tier 2: Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
Tier 3: Eusebio, Platini, Best, Garrincha, Luis Ronaldo, Zidane, Puskas, Muller
Tier 4: Charlton, Matthaus, Baresi, Maldini, Buffon, Yashin, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Ronaldinho, Rummenige, Zico, Figo and many others.
Tier 5: Henry, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Nedved, Shevchenko, Scholes, Modric, Nesta, Cannavaro, Giggs, Robben, Ribery and even more.

More modern players in tier 4 and 5 cause I am more familiar with them. No player from pre-Di Stefano ever, cause I don't know much about them. I guess that Sir Stanley Mathews should be somewhere in tier 3 or 4, Meazza probably in tier 4, no idea about others.
 
Last edited:
Theon said:
Yeah, I completely agree. After that Spain game I could literally notice myself reassessing him as a player.

When Argentina limped out the stage did look set for Ronaldo but unfortunately he was equally disappointing (or maybe that’s harsh, given master class put on by Godin and co). Spain game aside he’s not been great, and he was poor in that CL final. But I do agree with you.
Click to expand...

Yep. He didn't lit up the EURO either, despite winning it. He does have the credentials of being the best player at the time in two different leagues but still when we review his overall international credentials it looks a bit underwhelming.

Either way, not to hijack the thread into another Cristiano/Messi debate..
 
rcoobc said:
Kakas game vs Utd was ridiculous and definitely made me think he was on another level to us at the time.

And he had a great few years from 05-07 but I kind of remember disappearing in more games than he stared in after that. (Especially for Real)

I'd trade a peak Kaka for a peak Ronaldinho any day
Click to expand...
Yeah, peak Ronaldinho was a quite better player than peak Kaka. Both had incredibly short peak though.
 
Revan said:
I'll go with tiers too:

Tier 0: Pele
Tier 1: Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona
Tier 2: Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
Tier 3: Eusebio, Platini, Best, Garrincha, Luis Ronaldo, Zidane, Puskas
Tier 4: Charlton, Matthaus, Baresi, Maldini, Buffon, Yashin, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Ronaldinho, Rummenige, Zico, Figo and many others.
Tier 5: Henry, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Nedved, Shevchenko, Scholes, Modric, Nesta, Cannavaro, Giggs, Robben, Ribery and even more.

More modern players in tier 4 and 5 cause I am more familiar with them. No player from pre-Di Stefano ever, cause I don't know much about them. I guess that Sir Stanley Mathews should be somewhere in tier 3 or 4, Meazza probably in tier 4, no idea about others.
Click to expand...

Henry & kaka over Figo for me. Maybe Modric too.

I see Figo more in line with Giggs.
 
@Revan yeah good list, up for debate for some players here and there, but generally you've encompassed most names.

You just have to put Muller somewhere tho (around tier 3/4)
 
rcoobc said:
Kakas game vs Utd was ridiculous and definitely made me think he was on another level to us at the time.

And he had a great few years from 05-07 but I kind of remember disappearing in more games than he stared in after that. (Especially for Real)

I'd trade a peak Kaka for a peak Ronaldinho any day
Click to expand...
Think Kaka probably achieved more in his career though which is why I’d favour him.
 
Enigma_87 said:
@Revan yeah good list, up for debate for some players here and there, but generally you've encompassed most names.

You just have to put Muller somewhere tho (around tier 3/4)
Click to expand...
Yep, Muller is definitely low in third tier, high in fourth tier. One of those I forgot.
 
Revan said:
I'll go with tiers too:

Tier 0: Pele
Tier 1: Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona
Tier 2: Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
Tier 3: Eusebio, Platini, Best, Garrincha, Luis Ronaldo, Zidane, Puskas, Muller
Tier 4: Charlton, Matthaus, Baresi, Maldini, Buffon, Yashin, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Ronaldinho, Rummenige, Zico, Figo and many others.
Tier 5: Henry, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Nedved, Shevchenko, Scholes, Modric, Nesta, Cannavaro, Giggs, Robben, Ribery and even more.

More modern players in tier 4 and 5 cause I am more familiar with them. No player from pre-Di Stefano ever, cause I don't know much about them. I guess that Sir Stanley Mathews should be somewhere in tier 3 or 4, Meazza probably in tier 4, no idea about others.
Click to expand...
How old are you? Like, how much have you seen of all these players?
 
Renegade said:
Henry & kaka over Figo for me. Maybe Modric too.

I see Figo more in line with Giggs.
Click to expand...
Possibly. I rate him a bit higher than the other Ballon D'Or winners I had in Tier 4 (Kaka, Shevchenko, Nedved). Though then, maybe Shevchenko deserves to be a tier higher himself.
 
Massive Spanner said:
So you haven't seen them play?
Click to expand...

More or less, this:

adexkola said:
I'd say many people have done their due diligence in reading fan and player accounts, watching the footage, and so on, in order to rate players they haven't seen. I mean, that's literally what history entails. Utilizing primary and secondary sources as tools to shed some light on what past happenings were.

So the snipes at "people who didn't see them play" are ignorant.
Click to expand...
 
If the true Ronaldo stayed injury fee he would be considered the 'goat' ? He did it internationally and domestically. 247 goals in only 343 games is remarkable considering the long spells of injuries he had which impacted his game.
 
Revan said:
More or less, this:
Click to expand...
I wasn't having a swipe but I just don't get how it's possible to form opinions on players you've seen so much of Vs players you've never seen play at the time. There are way too many factors. It seems such a moot argument trying to figure out who the greatest is across all these footballers and all these generations. And therefore a bit pointless too.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I wasn't having a swipe but I just don't get how it's possible to form opinions on players you've seen so much of Vs players you've never seen play at the time. There are way too many factors. It seems such a moot argument trying to figure out who the greatest is across all these footballers and all these generations. And therefore a bit pointless too.
Click to expand...
Well, there are opinions on everything. Was Einstein a greater scientist than Newton? Or was von Neumann greater than Einstein. Was Genghis Khan a better general than Dwight Eisenhauer? etc etc

Mostly, a way of passing time which actually pushes you to read history for stuff you find interesting.
 
Cristiano Ronaldo i think....might just crack the top 5
 
Revan said:
Well, there are opinions on everything. Was Einstein a greater scientist than Newton? Or was von Neumann greater than Einstein. Was Genghis Khan a better general than Dwight Eisenhauer? etc etc

Mostly, a way of passing time which actually pushes you to read history for stuff you find interesting.
Click to expand...
None of that sounds very interesting.
 
I don‘t agree with the the premise of those 4 being the highest tier, but if I had to choose a best player excluding those 4, it would be between Di Stefano and Cruyff. Can‘t make up my mind and don‘t even know how to decide.
 
Rozay said:
Well I’m personally not with he consensus that those 4 are the best 4 ever.

Only Messi comes close to R9 for me, but at the very least, he’s in the top 5.
Click to expand...


R9...fecking hell.

Greatest ever should be judged over their entire career and Ronaldo spent most of it injured or overweight.

Messi did more in a season than Ronaldo did in his last 6. When Messi retires he will have 200 (currently around 140) more goals scored than Ronaldo it’s not even a discussion
 
Last edited:
Castia said:
R9...fecking hell.

Greatest ever should be judged over their entire career and Ronaldo spent most of it injured or overweight.

Messi did more in a season than Ronaldo did in his last 6.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting sub argument, the importance of peak level against career longevity. It is something that has been used a great deal when discussing the likes of Giggs and Scholes on here.

Messi and R9 are the 2 highest peaks I have watched in my lifetime. In a SF universe where Mars challenged Earth to an Expanse style rumble and we had the technology to revive any player at their peak moment R9 would be the striker and Cristiano would not be in my team.
 
5th best historically speaking is Messi or Di Stefano for me. (not going on peaks but career)


Tier 1 Pele and Maradona
Tier 1.5 Cruyff and Beckenbauer

Then Messi and Di Stefano battle for 5th for me.

I rate Cruyff and Beckenbauer higher than Messi historically because they both have three European Cups in a row + a legendary WC performance. Messi and CR lack that international tournament resume to elevate them into the highest tier for me.
 
I've not seen the older players play so won't include them. In my lifetime, Ronaldo, Messi (can't decide which order) and then Zidane.
 
Bobski said:
That is an interesting sub argument, the importance of peak level against career longevity. It is something that has been used a great deal when discussing the likes of Giggs and Scholes on here.

Messi and R9 are the 2 highest peaks I have watched in my lifetime. In a SF universe where Mars challenged Earth to an Expanse style rumble and we had the technology to revive any player at their peak moment R9 would be the striker and Cristiano would not be in my team.
Click to expand...


Even then a lot of it is nostalgia though. That season Ronaldo was on fire at Barcelona how many of those season has Messi had? He’s done it constantly year after year.

Ronaldo actually got 29 goals in his best season at Barce I mean Messi has literally doubled that in a season whilst winning a treble with Barce I just can’t see how it’s comparable.

When Messi/Ronaldo retire and there’s nobody coming close to their performances (40 goals a year every season) is when some people will really appreciate what they’re doing.
 
Castia said:
Even then a lot of it is nostalgia though. That season Ronaldo was on fire at Barcelona how many of those season has Messi had? He’s done it constantly year after year.

Ronaldo actually got 29 goals in his best season at Barce I mean Messi has literally doubled that in a season whilst winning a treble with Barce I just can’t see how it’s comparable.

When Messi/Ronaldo retire and there’s nobody coming close to their performances (40 goals a year every season) is when some people will really appreciate what they’re doing.
Click to expand...


But that takes us back to the argument that it is easier in the modern club environment to put up silly numbers as the key part of an Elite squad. Greater parity back then, quality players spread wider. R9 had to play at an unbelievable level to put up those numbers. Ronnie this year was average by his standards up to January and still ended with a goal a game. So much cannon fodder.

His first year in Italy was amazing as well, the stats don't bear it out but it was a difficult league to score in, it was an incredibly competitive league at the time, with defensive fundamentals that we don't have currently and he had to carry that squad, create and score.
 
Argument isn't greatest or 'GOAT', it's best. Cristiano is not one of the 4 best players ever. Ronaldo (Brazil) is, at least for many people who got to see him in his pomp. I also wouldn't sleep on Romario on a pure talent basis. This is based entirely on what I've seen, not heard. Opinions are better formed that way. There's no point in me or others here ranking Di Stefano or Puskas or many of the players pre-80s, an opinion formulated on word of mouth and some dodgy videos on youtube doesn't cut it in my book. The only one it's worth doing it for is Pele, purely because his stature in the game must have been vindicated by performance.
 
I love the way all these threads similar to this have no mention of Kenny. A few of the arl arses on here have said how good he was but some of you young ' uns do not have a clue .
 
Massive Spanner said:
I wasn't having a swipe but I just don't get how it's possible to form opinions on players you've seen so much of Vs players you've never seen play at the time. There are way too many factors. It seems such a moot argument trying to figure out who the greatest is across all these footballers and all these generations. And therefore a bit pointless too.
Click to expand...

Why do you distinguish between watching at the time and watching after their time? Someone who lived in England through di Stefano's era was lucky to see him a couple of times. Yet that didn't stop someone like Bobby Charlton wax lyrical about him and compare him favourably to players he played against dozens of times and played with hundreds of times.

People now can see many more games of his with the benefit of far more contextual information. Invalidating their opinion is invalidating every person's opinion on almost any player comparison pre TV era. And if you hold that view this seems an odd place to air it.
 
altodevil86 said:
Argument isn't greatest or 'GOAT', it's best. Cristiano is not one of the 4 best players ever. Ronaldo (Brazil) is, at least for many people who got to see him in his pomp. I also wouldn't sleep on Romario on a pure talent basis. This is based entirely on what I've seen, not heard. Opinions are better formed that way. There's no point in me or others here ranking Di Stefano or Puskas or many of the players pre-80s, an opinion formulated on word of mouth and some dodgy videos on youtube doesn't cut it in my book. The only one it's worth doing it for is Pele, purely because his stature in the game must have been vindicated by performance.
Click to expand...


https://footballia.net/

You can watch full matches here. 30 full matches for Pele, 36 for Cruyff, 62 for Beckenbauer. 96 for Platini, 116 for Zico, 120 for Maradona

That's enough to form an educated opinion in my mind considering 30 is generally the minimum sample size in statistics. Even the ones with fewer than 30 like the 6 full Best matches and 7 full Di Stefano gives a far better glimpse
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
https://footballia.net/

You can watch full matches here. 30 full matches for Pele, 36 for Cruyff, 62 for Beckenbauer. 96 for Platini, 116 for Zico, 120 for Maradona

That's enough to form an educated opinion in my mind considering 30 is generally the minimum sample size in statistics. Even the ones with fewer than 30 like the 6 full Best matches and 7 full Di Stefano gives a far better glimpse
Click to expand...
Genuinely didn't know that. Makes a difference for sure.
 
Revan said:
I'll go with tiers too:

Tier 0: Pele
Tier 1: Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona
Tier 2: Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
Tier 3: Eusebio, Platini, Best, Garrincha, Luis Ronaldo, Zidane, Puskas, Muller
Tier 4: Charlton, Matthaus, Baresi, Maldini, Buffon, Yashin, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Ronaldinho, Rummenige, Zico, Figo and many others.
Tier 5: Henry, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Nedved, Shevchenko, Scholes, Modric, Nesta, Cannavaro, Giggs, Robben, Ribery and even more.

More modern players in tier 4 and 5 cause I am more familiar with them. No player from pre-Di Stefano ever, cause I don't know much about them. I guess that Sir Stanley Mathews should be somewhere in tier 3 or 4, Meazza probably in tier 4, no idea about others.
Click to expand...

I like this, but I'd put Xavi in Tier 3.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.