Zidane for me, but then he was always my favourite player.
5th Best player of all time
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I've read recently some articles from the early 80's and Platini shoot to fame around 84 or so when Zico and Kalle were fading, otherwise it was widely considered at the time that those two + Maradona were undoubtedly the top three in the world.
It's interesting to see how the perception changed over the years and then Platini changed compared to Zico and Kalle and somehow those two fell a bit behind compared to him.
Here's some quotes in regards to this:
Kalle shooting to fame in the late 70's early 80's.
He was very highly rated during the 80's mate. Before Platini came to the conversation and of fame(from 83' onwards) he was the Euro answer to Zico/Maradona and usually he was talked up and compared to those two, along with of course sweeping every individual accolade in the early 80's.
Here are some more quotes from that time:
Fatty boom boom Ronaldo obviously
Top 10:
Tier 1
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
Tier 2
4. Cristiano
5. Cruyff
6. Ronaldo Fenomemo
7. Di Stefano
8. Beckenbauer
9. Platini
10. Best
Tier 1
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
Tier 2
4. Cristiano
5. Cruyff
6. Ronaldo Fenomemo
7. Di Stefano
8. Beckenbauer
9. Platini
10. Best
He’s nothing like Zico or Maradona and lacks the technical or playmaking influence that sets those players apart.
I’m not too sure how much weighting to give those article headlines, you can find similar opinion pieces about most players and I’m sure every opinion has been expressed at some point or another. For me Rummenigge’s Ballon d’Or’s came at a period in which the competition was undoubtedly weaker (post early-mid 70’s and prior to the rise of Juve Platini).
He’s a great player of course but doesn’t belong in this conversation.
Zidane.
Yea, no doubt he's in the tier below mate, and I'd myself put him in tier 4 or so considering the other 3 are the GOAT's but I wouldn't put Platini in a tier above IMO. It's not only the articles but most top managers at the time have put Kalle above Platini up until 83, when Kalle began to slow down, plagued with injuries and only after that Platini emerged as the best European player, whilst in 87 he was already retired. In essence Platini had about 2-3 years when he was considered the best European player at the time, compared to Kalle, who had a much lengthier career and at his absolute peak was considered the best European player at the time, not only by journos, but also the top managers in the gamelike Lattek, Herrera and co.
Platini only shot to fame around late 83 and then the 84 EURO when he hit his peak, but before that and whilst he was at France there were some reservations about his game.
A quote from Kubala about Platini at the time in 78:
Love Zidane - I think he’s an extremely interesting player as his reputation has seemed to take a real hit in recent years.
There’s almost this revisionist view of Zidane which portrays him as overly inconsistent and often ineffectual for both Juve and Madrid. I think part of that is (quite rightly) due to a reappraisal of his Madrid Galactico stint in which he won one league title in five years. I think the other part is that his rise came at a time in which football and pop culture seemed to reach a crescendo (which is still going) and from my perspective at least both Zidane and Fenomeno were a new kind of superstar - with more mainstream appeal that players like Baggio, Romario or Laudrup had hit previously.
I think there’s a bit of a hipster reaction to that broad popularity.
Zidane was one of my football heros while I was young, he made me pretty much support France for some time for him alone, and also made me take Madrid side every time they played Barca. I stopped doing both once he retired.
How many people here have the real knowledge of the Whole football history and knowing the singular footballers of any era?
Surely if you are going for players from that era, you have to go for Ronaldinho
Combine Kaka with Scholes and increase flair by 200%
Platini was around 23 in ‘78 and playing for AS Nancy in Ligue 1. You’re taking four seasons until he went to Juventus, around six seasons before he was leading the side to the European Cup. I don’t think it’s relevant to bring up that quote, when no one points to 1978 as being anything other than a footnote in Platini’s career and a precursor to the success that followed.
As far as I’m concerned it’s pretty unanminous that Platini was the superior footballer to Rummenigge, the opposite is not an opinion I’ve ever come across. Platini tends to be up there in discussions as the greatest ever European with the likes of Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Don’t think Rummenigge is in those conversations at all really.
To be fair it's not surprising that Zico and Rummenigge were rated higher than Platini in the early 80's, since his best years were 1983-85 (including the GOAT Euro performance), and their best years were the late 70/early 80s.
Wouldn't have Kalle as an equal to Platini and Zico personally, I love him to bits and he's one of the most complete attackers of all-time but, imo, he comes a bit short technically when compared to those exquisite number 10s.
Wouldn't have Kalle as an equal to Platini and Zico personally, I love him to bits and he's one of the most complete attackers of all-time but, imo, he comes a bit short technically when compared to those exquisite number 10s.
I think it is the current obsession with stats that is the reason. Look at all the arguments about Messi and Ronaldo, it is all numbers. Zidane was not a numbers players, never a prolific scorer and for this generation who did not watch him, especially in his prime they can not quantify him in the way they are used to.
Zidane was extraordinary, his control of ball, body and tempo of the match was unmatched. Beautiful player to watch, an expressionist in creating remarkable moments. I watched him in that Madrid era of Raul/Ronaldo/Guti/Carlos/Figo and Beckham and he was so clearly the best player in the team. I think we have lost some of that appreciation of the artistry in the game through the Ronaldo Messi numbers avalanche.
Why is the Cafe obsessed with the GOAT debate, it’s an impossible argument and it all gets rehashed with the majority of people either in the Ronaldo or Messi camp, blinded by the hate thy have for the other player.
How can you put Messi in tier 1 and Ronaldo in tier 2 if they both play in the same era in which one can argue that one is not better then the other that just does not make any sense.If Messi is tier 1 then Ronaldo is tier 1 if Messi is tier 2 then Ronaldo is tier 2. He is not even the clearly best of the psst 10 years.
Where are Raymond Kopa and Juste Fontaine?
Yeah, of course. My post was related more to how high was he regarded during the time he was at France. Since he only had 3 years on top, yet many put him as top 10 of all time, yet Ronaldinho, who also had 3 marvelous years isn't mentioned in the same breath.
Never knew when his stature shoot to fame, and why he's considered better than Zidane for example all things considered. He's great player obviously and belongs to the discussion of the top 20 of all time, but just don't see him as top 10.
Then those people dont know football and not the other way around.
R9, Ronaldinho ,Zidane, Cruyff , Garincha all guys who can easily be that 5th. its to teach their own at that point.
Influx of Americans? Massive debating point in US sports fandom(mainly NBA) and what they do Europe tends to replicate.
Was never a massive focus traditionally, you might have the odd discussion with fluid lists but the majority of the debates tended to be team based.
Nice quotes you found it. Possibly EURO 84 changed the perception, it is universally accepted as the best individual performance in a EURO tournament, and I jave heard people saying that had Platini done that in a WC instead of an EURO, he would have been remembered in par with Maradona.
Because I think Messi was a better footballer than Cristiano - I don’t think it’s that close either, but it’s just my opinion. For me Messi was the far better dribbler, an equally effective goalscorer and in contrast to Ronaldo a legitimate world class playmaker and passer. I think Ronaldo has a clear mental edge, and physically he’s a different beast particularly in the air - but ultimately he doesn’t have the raw and natural magic that Messi did.
1. Pele
2-4. Ronaldo / Messi / Maradona
5-7. Cruyff / Di Stefano / Beckenbauer
8-10. Platini / Best / Garrincha
11-16. Zidane / L.Ronaldo / Zico / Muller / Puskas / Eusebio
2-4. Ronaldo / Messi / Maradona
5-7. Cruyff / Di Stefano / Beckenbauer
8-10. Platini / Best / Garrincha
11-16. Zidane / L.Ronaldo / Zico / Muller / Puskas / Eusebio
Yeah, this GOAT deabte is tiresome, less tiresome than Ronaldo vs Messi one.
It's near impossible to compare players from different eras and then we have so many different positions and roles.
Kalle style was really unspectacular and probably that's the issue why he often gets overlooked, true. Still he was on every Ballon D'or list from what was it 78/79 till 85?
Dinho's peak for example isn't really that different to Platini and I'd probably put them on par historically, although the former didn't put a GOAT performance in 06 WC, his CL and Barca form at his peak was good as any individual performance Platini produced at his.
Zidane for me. I'd even say he would have a good shout of displacing one of the top 4 called by the OP.
He was a powerhouse who seemed to know what was going to happen on a football pitch before anyone else did. People seem to forget what an amazing first touch he had, and how he seemed to be able to score at any moment.
He was a powerhouse who seemed to know what was going to happen on a football pitch before anyone else did. People seem to forget what an amazing first touch he had, and how he seemed to be able to score at any moment.
He’d definitely be up there for me for sure. Kaka just had a bigger impact on me personally. I’ll always remember watching Ronaldinho against Chelsea at the Bridge.Surely if you are going for players from that era, you have to go for Ronaldinho
Combine Kaka with Scholes and increase flair by 200%
I just think its a tad insane to have two players who have at the bar minimum been equal to each other one the past 10 or more years be in separate tiers.
And you're obviously not biased to be fair.
Ali Dia
Interesting and probably right.
Totally agree it’s like trying to list your top favourite movies etc.
I think 3 brilliant international tournaments (1982, 1984 and 1986) secured his legacy even more than his performances for Juve. His 1984 Euro is simply the best there is and personally I'd rate his 1982 and 1986 tournaments ahead of Ronaldinho's 2002. And his non-peak years were better than Ronaldinho's (although at their absolute best I'd pick Goofy).
If you look at my posts I am not I even just said that both Messi and Ronaldo at the bar minimum have been even. You would have to be quite daft to not put CR7 their and most people do it because of their "hate" towards him. Though I prefer Ronaldo to Messi I have no problem saying that I love watching Messi play and him and Ronaldo are both ahead of Maradona for me.
But that’s your opinion that they set the bar equally, it’s not everyone’s.
For the reasons I just stated I think Messi has always been the better footballer at his best. He just had more natural talent imo. I think Ronaldo pushed him as far as humanly possible (and no doubt the presence of Messi probably made Cristiano a better player) but ultimately I think there’s a threshold that Ronaldo couldn’t pass, which Messi seemed to be able to at will.
I’m saying that as a United / Ronaldo fan by the way, I don’t dislike him at all. It’s probably similar to you but for me I just can’t fathom how anyone can think Ronaldo was a better footballer... Opinions eh.
What Cristiano did recently you just have to put them in the GOAT tier. To me Messi is better of course and Pele/Maradona still the top two, but Cristiano with his longevity has to be put there along with Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer.
Can't really overlook his recent exploits and the 3 CL in a row..
I guess but dont think the natural talent debate can be used because if that was the case then Quaresma would be ahead of Ronaldo and R9 but like you said opinions. Dont want to make this a Messi V Ronaldo thread.
Yeah, I completely agree. After that Spain game I could literally notice myself reassessing him as a player.
When Argentina limped out the stage did look set for Ronaldo but unfortunately he was equally disappointing (or maybe that’s harsh, given master class put on by Godin and co). Spain game aside he’s not been great, and he was poor in that CL final. But I do agree with you.