5 bad apples at Manchester United, 3 of them we are all in agreement with

Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
United fans - mostly working class at aways - spend a big chunk of money and time travelling down from Manchester to London (incoming 'they already live there' joke) to support the club and in return they get half arsed, moody performances from millionaires who won't even take a few seconds at the end to acknowledge their presence. Instead choosing to throw their shirts to opposition fans as they strop off.

"Completely fine! Totally normal!"

In Fergie's era he sent players back out from the dressing room to go to the away support, win or lose. I remember after a dead rubber European away (Bronby maybe?) he tore strips off some of the young players making their debuts for not doing it. He didn't even like our players swapping shirts with rivals, much less chucking them to opposition fans.

It's not even an era thing - just customary low standards. You see Liverpool, City, Bayern, Dortmund etc always making a point of going to their away fans as a group.
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Showing appreciation to the away fans should be mandatory, to be fair, but giving a kid his shirt really isn't a big deal, Arsenal fan or otherwise. I guarantee you if Rashford was banging in the goals for United, if he was on top form, people would be saying how it was such a nice gesture, he feeds AND clothes the the kids, what a hero, etc.

But he isn't banging the goals, he's playing like shit, and the media are jumping all over him and the rest of the United squad for any small thing they do. It's just getting tiresome. We know the club is up shit street right now, we don't need to be reminded about it at every given opportunity.
 
Kush said:
Did you miss the interview he just did? Maguire thinks he is way better than he actually is, and to top that off, his attitude absolutely stinks. He simply doesn't understand or gets what's it to play for a club like Utd, never mind captain it. Hence, constantly shifting blame on others, and not an ounce of self-reflection.

We've wasted a lot of money but spending £80m and making him captain while handing him a 6 year contract might be biggest. Man has absolutely no standards.
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Maguire is defending himself in the face of unprecedented online criticism. I find it difficult to get too wound up about a man defending himself when backed into a corner.

He won’t seriously believe his form has been at all good enough. Only a muppet would believe that.
 
JPRouve said:
I never really thought about this one before but is it a bad thing that he gave his shirt to kids that wanted it despite not being obvious fans?
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I hadn't thought about it either really. I wasn't there but maybe it's suggesting that he didn't want to get too close to the away fans? I still haven't got a firm idea whether Marcus is playing badly due to psychology and lack of form in a vicious circle or whether it's an injury hangover that he's trying to adjust to. I do agree that his performances are unacceptable though.
 
Kag said:
Maguire is defending himself in the face of unprecedented online criticism. I find it difficult to get too wound up about a man defending himself when backed into a corner.

He won’t seriously believe his form has been at all good enough. Only a muppet would believe that.
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I think it's more due to how he's defending it rather than the fact he is defending himself. If I was in his position I'd be saying "we know our performances are not acceptable and we must strive even harder to get through it and I include myself, I'm top of the list in fact" ; even if I didn't believe it!

It's all feeding into this image (true or false) that these footballers are detached from reality, and whatever your views on CR7, he's still aiming his sights high and working out to ensure his body can keep playing at a high level. I've been to Madeira a few times cycling and it's the hilliest place ever if you leave the coast but I don't see the people there as having lived in the Andes or anything, it's 'just' very hard work.
 
Maguire at least bursts a bollock. He’s might be shit but at least he isn’t infuriating
 
Surprised by the top five names here. The more obvious piss-takers and toxic presences I’d suggest would be:
  • The striker who clearly has a very busy diary, failing to be ready pre-season both times and who can’t make time to play for us between resting niggles, family time and international football.
  • Le Sulk II
  • The player on loan to Prison FC.
  • An injury prone centre back who can never be relied upon to be available, but regularly chirps off about his teammates who maintain their fitness and play through the pain.
  • Our whiny captain who criticises everything his teammates do on the field, whilst struggling to leave any sort of positive mark on a high profile match himself.
Three of these need jettisoning. One has probably written off his top level career through his own bad behaviour. The final chap needs to be told who’s boss and buck up his ideas.
 
Not sure how Rashford has been stinking the place out for years? Didn't he get 20+ goals two seasons in a row playing as a wide player and despite being injured or playing through injury a majority of the time? (the answer is yes)

Not sure if united fans have bigger goldfish memories than any other set of fans or just deliberately like to spite their own players, but what bollocks is this?

He's certainly been terrible this season and his work rate in games has been unacceptable. On that basis he can't complaint if he's frozen out, but can't figure how he's unredeemable and yet Maguire who has been a literal comedy act for fans of every other team is?

Pogba and Lingard are irrelevant to the discussion as they're contracts are up and they'll be off. Both should have gone years ago to the point that at this stage any bad attitude from either is more on the club/management than it is on them.

It does occur to me that the bad attitude of the team is probably linked to the fact they've been managed appallingly by Ole and in the case of Woodward for years, and it's reached a stage where half don't want to be there, and all are playing for a manager they know won't be there. Like making all the disruptive kids stay for an after school class and giving them the substitute teacher who has no official authority, then wondering why it descends into chaos.

Rashford is actually one of the ones I'd keep and try to redeem something from. Unless he's being a dick behind the scenes but I can't imagine it?

Of the ones who aren't already going, Maguire is the one I'd boot. He is just miles off being good enough. For any PL team never mind United. You'll never have a team with a great attitude when the captain is someone who makes it nearly impossible for them to win.
 
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TMDaines said:
Surprised by the top five names here. The more obvious piss-takers and toxic presences I’d suggest would be:
  • The striker who clearly has a very busy diary, failing to be ready pre-season both times and who can’t make time to play for us between resting niggles, family time and international football.
  • Le Sulk II
  • The player on loan to Prison FC.
  • An injury prone centre back who can never be relied upon to be available, but regularly chirps off about his teammates who maintain their fitness and play through the pain.
  • Our whiny captain who criticises everything his teammates do on the field, whilst struggling to leave any sort of positive mark on a high profile match himself.
Three of these need jettisoning. One has probably written off his top level career through his own bad behaviour. The final chap needs to be told who’s boss and buck up his ideas.
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AKA Edinson, Anthony, Mason, Eric, and Bruno

If it's 10 names for a full house then together we have done it!

Whichever players we agree or disagree on, what we can agree on for certain is that there ARE bad apples in Manchester United's squad, and we can only hope that the day ETH walks through the doors, is the day that the changes in the squad begin to take place.
 
noodlehair said:
Not sure how Rashford has been stinking the place out for years? Didn't he get 20+ goals two seasons in a row playing as a wide player and despite being injured or playing through injury a majority of the time? (the answer is yes)

Not sure if united fans have bigger goldfish memories than any other set of fans or just deliberately like to spite their own players, but what bollocks is this?

He's certainly been terrible this season and his work rate in games has been unacceptable. On that basis he can't complaint if he's frozen out, but can't figure how he's unredeemable and yet Maguire who has been a literal comedy act for fans of every other team is?

Pogba and Lingard are irrelevant to the discussion as they're contracts are up and they'll be off. Both should have gone years ago to the point that at this stage any bad attitude from either is more on the club/management than it is on them.

It does occur to me that the bad attitude of the team is probably linked to the fact they've been managed appallingly by Ole and in the case of Woodward for years, and it's reached a stage where half don't want to be there, and all are playing for a manager they know won't be there. Like making all the disruptive kids stay for an after school class and giving them the substitute teacher who has no official authority, then wondering why it descends into chaos.

Rashford is actually one of the ones I'd keep and try to redeem something from. Unless he's being a dick behind the scenes but I can't imagine it?

Of the ones who aren't already going, Maguire is the one I'd boot. He is just miles off being good enough. For any PL team never mind United. You'll never have a team with a great attitude when the captain is someone who makes it nearly impossible for them to win.
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The players are adults.

Is it unreasonable for the players (adults) in a professional setting to... yep... you've guessed it... behave in a professional way?
 
The Oracle said:
The players are adults.

Is it unreasonable for the players (adults) in a professional setting to... yep... you've guessed it... behave in a professional way?
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In fairness, male football players are just babies with inflated egos. That's pretty much what a manager is, he's their babysitter.

Since SAF left, the babies have taken over the creche.
 
Chripper said:
In fairness, male football players are just babies with inflated egos. That's pretty much what a manager is, he's their babysitter.

Since SAF left, the babies have taken over the creche.
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Given that Bruno is a cry-baby, it's a good analogy!
 
JPRouve said:
I never really thought about this one before but is it a bad thing that he gave his shirt to kids that wanted it despite not being obvious fans?
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Nah, it's perfectly alright. They're just kids, thrilled to get any professional player's shirt.
 
The Oracle said:
AKA Edinson, Anthony, Mason, Eric, and Bruno

If it's 10 names for a full house then together we have done it!

Whichever players we agree or disagree on, what we can agree on for certain is that there ARE bad apples in Manchester United's squad, and we can only hope that the day ETH walks through the doors, is the day that the changes in the squad begin to take place.
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I have sympathy for many of the players on your list, and whilst some will now leave, I think others have much more of a future at United than others do.

Ole's poor squad management and overreliance on a small core of players came to the fore during the final 12 months of his reign. United have been a better team in the periods when Lingard has playing frequently post-Ferguson and he went and smashed it on loan to West Ham. Why Ole and United then brought him back this season and wanted to keep him around only to not play him, I don't know? He even delivered early on in the season during his early sub appearances, but saw no reward for it. I can understand his frustration entirely. The Scholes comments reflect worse on Scholes than they do on Lingard. I'm not that arsed about that.

As for Pogba, again I question Ole's management here. He seemed to hold him at arm's length when he became manager, when there was a real opportunity to fully reintegrate him once Mourinho left. If you have a player like Pogba, with his status in the squad, with his wages, with his profile in global football, you need to make him part of your core and make him a key man of your first XI. Pogba's never going to be satisfied at a club where he doesn't have the status of a senior key player or club captain, and it makes no sense for United to be offering him the wages they are when he's just another first team midfielder. I'm not surprised Pogba wants to leave, I would too, I'm surprised that United still think there's any sense in breaking the bank to keep him though.

Both Lingard and Pogba should and will now leave, unless the new manager unexpectedly makes a special effort to get them to re-sign.

I think Rashford, Shaw and Maguire could all turn it around here. I think the disappointing end to last season for our English players, for both club and country, must have taken its toll. I don't think there's any reason these three are negative presences at Old Trafford and Carrington.

We will already have a much happier dressing room next season just cutting all the chaff and those wanting to leave. Bringing in some younger, hungrier quality players to freshen things up will both provide competition for places and revitalise the existing players at the club. Getting rid of Cavani, Matic, Mata, Bailly, Jones, Pereira, Lingard and Pogba would already be a good cull. You could well add Martial, Greenwood and a few others to that, maybe even a long awaited change to goalkeeper too.
 
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The Oracle said:
The players are adults.

Is it unreasonable for the players (adults) in a professional setting to... yep... you've guessed it... behave in a professional way?
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Have you ever worked in any work environment where adults all behave like professional adults even when managed terribly?

It's not much good saying what you expect. You can expect everyone on this forum to behave like an adult but it will never happen
 
Pogba and Lingard are leaving anyway but I'm not sure why Rashford is being written off as a football player. I think it's more likely that he comes back into form than going the Dele Alli route.
 
noodlehair said:
Have you ever worked in any work environment where adults all behave like professional adults even when managed terribly?

It's not much good saying what you expect. You can expect everyone on this forum to behave like an adult but it will never happen
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Yes literally every company in the world or you get fired or reprimanded. What company do you work for where you can down tools if you dont like the manager
 




Lingard is without a doubt 1 of them. I'm honestly betting Rashford is as well
 
Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
United fans - mostly working class at aways - spend a big chunk of money and time travelling down from Manchester to London (incoming 'they already live there' joke) to support the club and in return they get half arsed, moody performances from millionaires who won't even take a few seconds at the end to acknowledge their presence. Instead choosing to throw their shirts to opposition fans as they strop off.

"Completely fine! Totally normal!"

In Fergie's era he sent players back out from the dressing room to go to the away support, win or lose. I remember after a dead rubber European away (Bronby maybe?) he tore strips off some of the young players making their debuts for not doing it. He didn't even like our players swapping shirts with rivals, much less chucking them to opposition fans.

It's not even an era thing - just customary low standards. You see Liverpool, City, Bayern, Dortmund etc always making a point of going to their away fans as a group.
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Literally who the hell cares? It's proper fecking weird that people seem to cry that the players haven't been over and rimmed the away end after every match regardless of how the game has gone. I've been at every away game except Villareal, Watford & Spurs this season and never once have I counted which players come over and which don't, as long as they give their all for 90 minutes on the pitch I genuinely don't give a feck whether they come over at the end or not. It's just a weird obsession people have been fascinated since Ronaldo walked off a couple of times earlier in the season after we'd played poorly in games, which again, was a seriously weird thing to care about.

Saturday was shite, frankly it was a fecking terrible away end - the worst of this season by a country mile - and it summed up the performance on the pitch. And exactly who were the players meant to be coming over to clap anyway? We'd all gone, people were filtering out all over the last 15 minutes or so. I stuck around until the final whistle but was out of the stadium as soon as the whistle went and was on the train out of Euston by 3 o'clock. It was a shite end anyway, I wouldn't have applauded it if I was a player on the pitch. Anfield on Tuesday, only time in my life I've ever left a United game early, didn't fancy being locked in after a battering by them lot, by all accounts there were feck all people left by the final whistle. So who exactly were the players going over to applaud? Empty seats? Everton the same, I stayed until the final whistle but was gone as soon as it went, loads left before the end.

It's such a weird thing to care about. It's about the 90 minutes, they can do what they want with the rest of their time.
 
L1nk said:




Lingard is without a doubt 1 of them. I'm honestly betting Rashford is as well
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It says players are not focused on Manutd, these can only be the free agents

Pogba, Lingard, Cavani and even the likes of Bailly who we have seen commenting on Instagram.
 
All 5 of these ‘bad apples’ are young men with careers that span the age of 18-34. 10 of those are truly important to both club and player.

Keane, Rooney, Rio and so many others, left GREAT dressing rooms in pursuit of success.

Let’s not focus on frustrated athletes.
Let’s focus on the issues they’re raising.

Pogba. AWB. Rashford. Shaw. All have shown themselves to be coachable and respectful of other managers. Lingard is a child but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Caveat : Any player above not adhering to given magagerial instructions can Fcuk all the way off.
 
Kush said:
Did you miss the interview he just did? Maguire thinks he is way better than he actually is, and to top that off, his attitude absolutely stinks. He simply doesn't understand or gets what's it to play for a club like Utd, never mind captain it. Hence, constantly shifting blame on others, and not an ounce of self-reflection.

We've wasted a lot of money but spending £80m and making him captain while handing him a 6 year contract might be biggest. Man has absolutely no standards.
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Garbage for us this year. Englands best defender for 5 years straight. Despite being up against England most decorated defender for this period.

The club is the problem. Not the player. (Admittedly he’s a bit of a douche sometimes).
 
All speculation nothing more, but I do think Shaw is the biggest shit disturber and the dressing room leak. When you see the complaints about training methods, or training to late and the excitement over Poch rather than ETH, it all seems to point to that fat bastard. He was railroaded by previous managers, Jose and LVG, for his poor training, diet habits and poor reading of the game. Having seen Jose sacked, he probably felt a sign of power having had an influence with the club siding with the players.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Yes literally every company in the world or you get fired or reprimanded. What company do you work for where you can down tools if you dont like the manager
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I agree with Noodle. It's not about downing tools. That would be outright refusing to play which probably only Cavani could potentially be accused of. Acting unprofessionally could be any one (or all) of going through the motions in training, allowing personal relationships with colleagues to become negative and counter productive to yourself and others, or refusing to follow your instructions during a match and/or not putting in the required effort.

I suspect that there are many of our squad that are guilty of some of this.
 
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