The hard & fast with managerial appointments is one of my least favorite things about modern football.
That goes for all clubs.
4 Failed Managerial Appointments in 8 Years
- Thread starter Abhinav
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The hard & fast with managerial appointments is one of my least favorite things about modern football.
That goes for all clubs.
It's easy to buy good players on paper when your club is loaded. It's not an accomplishment to have a better squad considering the investments. It's the bare minimum
He has been a huge failure. He spent ton of money on world class players and won nothing with them. I honestly don't understand all the talk about the rebuilding he has done. He has signed Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, Bruno, Maguire, Cavani..all top and established players that didn't need him to become so. We didn't need him and his scouting genius abilities to sign the likes of these players. Not like he signed young players and developed them into being top class or has great success with unexpected transfers. Klopp signed Mane and Salah each one for something less than 40m and transformed them from just good players to two of the best attackers in the league. Meanwhile Ole's only solution was just splashing more and more money on top class players to solve the team's problems.
He was backed like hell by the board and he failed to deliver anything meaningful worthy of such investment. He's just the definition of a chequebook manager. He spent close to 440m, won nothing and a lot of people are talking about the rebuild he has done ?
A huge failure in my book.
To be fair, the only reason for that is cause he sold half the players.
He sold: Rafael and replaced him with Darmian; Evans and replaced him with Rojo; Evra and replaced him with Shaw; Nani, Kagawa and Di Maria and replaced them with Depay; Chicharito, Van Persie and Falcao and replaced them with Martial.
I think we would have been way better off if he had not sold those players and instead kept what we had. The only upgrade in that list is Martial. The only other good signings he made were Blind and Herrera (though his other two midfielders, Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin sucked).
Van Gaal was a very good coach, but he was an extremely poor recruiter. I think it could have worked if we had a good DoF who would have been in charge of signings.
I have little to no hope for Murtough and Fletcher. This is their first real test and they are failing for me.
That's why I didn't like the idea of a former player and an internal appointment with Ole in charge, just feels too friendly.
Right on, it's a pity that we don't have football intelligence at the highest level. The closest thing we have is the Co92 who tout sentimental B.S to protect their mate and shut out all debate on this issue. It's been clear for so long that Ole's team lacks the required consistency and now with some balance he is totally lost.
The unfortunate thing is the board will let this get drawn out again and write off another season ensuring that we start another rebuild from a position of weakness.
I dont mind us changing managers if it doesn't look like it's going in the right direction on the pitch.
Moyes couldn't steer a cruiseliner. LVG had a style of play but it was too slow and dull. Jose wasn't backed in the same way Ole was and therefore he gave up.
Ole has been backed more than any of those managers and yet has had less success than LVG and Jose with a more superior squad.
The fact is Ole has done better than Moyes but worse than LVG and Jose.
We need someone who can do better than LVG and Jose.
Conte or Ten Hag are the only available and good enough managers at the moment. Ideally it would be a Pep or Klopp but we missed the boat on those two and lost out.
Conte is surely the next best thing for us. 4 Serie A's and a Premier League recently makes him the stand out. He could definitely end up better LVG and Jose here.
Moyes couldn't steer a cruiseliner. LVG had a style of play but it was too slow and dull. Jose wasn't backed in the same way Ole was and therefore he gave up.
Ole has been backed more than any of those managers and yet has had less success than LVG and Jose with a more superior squad.
The fact is Ole has done better than Moyes but worse than LVG and Jose.
We need someone who can do better than LVG and Jose.
Conte or Ten Hag are the only available and good enough managers at the moment. Ideally it would be a Pep or Klopp but we missed the boat on those two and lost out.
Conte is surely the next best thing for us. 4 Serie A's and a Premier League recently makes him the stand out. He could definitely end up better LVG and Jose here.
And the 3 previous all failed miserably.
Ole had to gut that squad and fully rebuilt and to his credit he has done that
For me he is our best manager post Ferguson even though he has now come up short.
The signings bar the ones that you said and I completely agree with were appalling. But still playing academy players like Blackett, McNair, Jackson etc who time has shown were not prem standards and finishing 5th, level on points with City, was very good. I always thought with the right players he’d have taken us very far. Also it was under him that we beat pool and City by 4.
None of them have been able to spend as much money as him too. "Ole had to gut" talking as he made truly impossible choices in getting rid of important players.
What he made were easy decisions, all the players let go were ones who didn't wanna stay at the club and amidst all of that, he still managed to extend pointless players like Mata and Lingard.
Not to mention that when this guy leaves, he'll leave us with a huge fecking problem : moving on from Ronaldo. The next manager will struggle with having a player with a huge ego, name and salary while not performing that well on the pitch. Will be pretty damn hard to bench or even get rid of him.
So no, he has been an awful appointment.
So no, he has been an awful appointment.
Firstly, you pick a footballing strategy of what you are trying to achieve and how you want to achieve it. Then you assess the current players and coaches you have in your possession and what you might need in addition. Finally you approach or poach the best possible manager in the world to deliver your footballing strategy based on your assets. It doesn’t feel like that process has been followed in the past 8 years.
Firstly, half of those players you just listed he only signed a few weeks ago (not to mention some of them were not established top class players either), and secondly - the managers before him signed many a big name and could barely finish in the top 4.
He took us from 6th to 3rd then 2nd. It’s easy to just say ‘he didn’t win anything’ - the fact is, he had no business winning any major honours within two years with the team he took over. That said, the team SHOULD be now winning things this season, which is where he is about to show himself to be a real failure if he continues - because I doubt he can. But we were 6 steps back and he took us to 2 steps back in two years. That isn’t failing. Taking the 2nd place team backwards this season certainly is failing, and is inevitably what will happen if he isn’t put out of his misery.
To say he’s not progressed things is false though to me. Obviously, he hasn’t taken us all the way, but he’s taken us part of it.
He’s a failure, he can’t get credit/blame for what his successor does. The team is as far away from title as ever been, theres nothing to build on in terms of how we play. Next manager will see some of his signings or those who’ve renewed on huge wages no one else will pay them as deadwood.
Ole wasn’t hired to spend all this time and money and win nothing building a squad for an unknown manager. Big failure and leaves behind a lot of work for his successor.
I agree that we played decently considering what players he had. But the reason he had those players in the first place, is precisely his fault.
The only way LVG could have been a success here (that is, winning the league or UCL) was if we had a very good DoF who would have been in charge of signings. LvG the coach was world class, LvG the manager probably not, LvG the DoF (cause DoF and manager at United were, probably still are the same role) was terrible.
He had Rooney and Van Persie, also Herrera was great and he couldn't use him, Smalling was superb, failed with his semi galacticos diMaria, Falcao, Schweinsteigger, and brought the wrong player in Schneiderlin. I mean he was backed and he still couldn't deliver. 5th place is unaccaptable and it's his choice to turn against the players he couldn't work with.
What cost him most is obviously the outdated tactics and out dated approach to the game.
That can be applied to all of the managers hired but at least with Van Gaal he had a histotry of entertaining football and was there for a quick fix after out of his depth Moyes.
Mourinho was another "pragmatic" fix how to win the trophies and get the more ale back
Ole was here to a quick fix to get the morale back and United way, unfortunately board made hasty decision to give him a long contract, he's done half okay with getting rid of some of the not good enough players and bringinsome quality ones but he can't use none of them to their full potential, also any semi decent not too old manager with vision would see this team needs a spark and play aggressive entertaining football and would manage the player transfers well imho. Just need someone like Ten Haag this time and I think we will get that.
Get Zidane or Conte and we will still be a mediocre team, planning shorterm, actually I'd believe Conte could make this team challenge but it is really time NOW to finally get the progressive thinking young manager not another pragmatic appointment, in fact this would be the most pragmatic one.
The club already finished 2nd the season before he got the job.
And no, pretty much all these were top players, or well known players that were scouted before. Maguire was scouted the season before he arrived and Bruno was a well known name. Next summer he signed Cavani, Telles and VDB, and last summer signed Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo. Point me at any signing of these that succeeded and wasn't already a top name, or world class players. Point me at any unpredictable signing signed for low money and he made him a top player like what Klopp did. Point me at any youngster he signed and established him as a top player. Nothing. Every single signing that succeeded under him were already top players, and we didn't need Ole and his genius scouts to tell us Cavani, Bruno, Maguire, Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho will be good signings for Man United.
Actually, he has signed the most top and established names among all the post Fergie managers. Moyes - deary me - managed to only sign Fellaini and Mata. LVG only signed Di Maria as a top name. He signed a post ACL Falcao and past it Bastian, with the rest of his signings being a gamble rather than top established players : Martial, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Schneiderlin and Blind. Neither of these were top players. Mourinho signed Pogba, Zlatan, Lukaku and Sanchez as top class names, while the likes of Bailly, Lindelof, Mikhi, Fred and Dalot were more of a gamble as well.
Ole was backed the most out of them all and was handed the most top class players any of our managers post Fergie got. He still did nothing with them worthy of note. With the amount of investment the board bumped into the team under him, talking about 2nd 12 points away from the top as progress is embarrassing when the team he inherited which we apparently think was shit finished also 2nd the season before he got the job 19 points away from the top, so what, Ole spent ton of money on top players like Bruno, Maguire and Cavani and his achievement with them is to cut the gap between United and the league winners to 12 rather than 19 ?
Agreed he's a failure after all, we could be managed by him for 8 years and never win anything. After Ronaldo, Cavani, Pogba and perhaps some of the older players soon inevitably entering a declining trajectory like Varane, Fred we will be ahead of another rebuild. And we have heard so many excuses before, while other teams just hire a new manager and start winning things because guess what team doesn't have to be perfect and can be taught to play certain way not in 4 or 5 years. Let alone we are still sum of individuals which indeed is tragicomical after so much time Ole and his coaches had to implement their ideas.
Moyes was a recommendation from Sir Alex. LVG was clearly past it, Mourinho was a risky bet that backfired. But did anyone seriously though that hiring a no name manager from a low league who had achieved nothing in 10 years as a manager would be a good idea? Just because he was an ex player.
We got what we deserve.
We got what we deserve.
The ‘how many unknown players has he discovered’ is about as random and arbitrary a metric as you can find, and I have no idea why you seem to be building your case upon it at all. He signed players that you have seen play football before. So fecking what? We have qualified for the CL back-to-back for the first time since Fergie left. That has brought some stability in terms of reasserting us as a top 4 side, which we were not previously. We had gone unbeaten away for about 18 months, and have had many positive times and enjoyed watching our team for a number of spells in the last two years. We have won a number of games against big sides, which we struggled to do before, beating City away two years straight, Chelsea 3 times in a year etc. It hasn’t been spectacular, but we’ve certainly had something close to stability for the most part. We might have even won the most PL points in 2020, or second.
Ultimately, a team that is not good enough to win the league will also have examples of bad things. If they didn’t, they would be champions. There has to be a reason why even the second placed team finishes second and not first. So there have obviously been negatives. I want him to go immediately, but I won’t reflect on him as some sort of disaster, at least not unless this shit show is allowed to drag on for months. He can never win this league I agree. But that wasn’t the extent of our issues before. Our worry was not finishing seasons 6th, and that seems to at least be a thing of the past. I’m grateful to at least feel confident of playing CL football now, which wasn’t always the case - but 100% agree that we need better.
It's not that the managers fail it's that the glazers don't release managers quickly enough. Chelsea have sacked managers but many of whom still attained success.
As far as I'm concerned, LVG / Mourinho won trophies which is a stronger reflection of success compared to consistent top four finishes. So how do fans quantify the success of a manager ?
Solskjaer is approaching 36 months in charge and hasn't won anything. From my perspective if Solskjaer is sacked this season he will be the worse between those three managers on the basis of what's actually important. These are exactly the same arguments that people use to go against Poch, so they cannot be used to justify Ole.
As far as I'm concerned, LVG / Mourinho won trophies which is a stronger reflection of success compared to consistent top four finishes. So how do fans quantify the success of a manager ?
Solskjaer is approaching 36 months in charge and hasn't won anything. From my perspective if Solskjaer is sacked this season he will be the worse between those three managers on the basis of what's actually important. These are exactly the same arguments that people use to go against Poch, so they cannot be used to justify Ole.
What about City and Liverpool then? They hired world class managers and both have been there for over five years now. Klopp is most likely staying in Liverpool until at least 2024. It's not impossible to hire a great manager that's committed and wants to stay long term.
How is Jose a flop?
He won 3 trophies (yes, 3 because they count as trophies).
He left pretty good squad to new manager (Lukaku, Dave, Rashy, Martial, Shaw, Pogba with some good squad players like Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, Romero).
In two and half years, he did good. Not great but not Ole/Moyes bad.
And please don't say anything about good mood factor. Please
He won 3 trophies (yes, 3 because they count as trophies).
He left pretty good squad to new manager (Lukaku, Dave, Rashy, Martial, Shaw, Pogba with some good squad players like Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, Romero).
In two and half years, he did good. Not great but not Ole/Moyes bad.
And please don't say anything about good mood factor. Please
The owners and those they put in charge on the board are fecking useless.
This won't change until they're gone.
This won't change until they're gone.
Not saying it doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be sacked. But I have no faith that the next manager they choose will be the right choice of if there really is a right choice right now.
It is when we need a new starting 11 every time. Club need to be looking for a better version of Ole or someone who can work Bruno, Rashford, Ronaldo & Pogba into an attacking force, whilst instilling a cohesIve defensive system at the back.
True think Conte would be a disaster, come in massively over spend then fall out with the club and leave.
Or Zidane who was amazing at managing egos but his Real Madrid team had similar issues to the current United side in that it relied on individual brilliance and had no real style of play.
But then if you go the other way and bring in some one like Ten Hag, there gonna struggle to implement there tactics with a player like Ronaldo up front, who if you want the best out of you have to build the team around.
So I don’t know if there is a right answer.
Should have hired Pochettino. Doing well at psg getting them two domestic cup, beating most of Europe top team, getting semi final in champion league and would have won the league if it wasn't for tuchel poor start to league last season. The lack of selecting the right manager is the reason why we having gone back on top of Europe. It is not glazers, spending, quality players, or midfielder as some fans on here would like other to believe.
Our next managerial appoint will be tricky. We need to get rid of the class of 99 and the United way DNA. A manager like Van gaal was the right approach in that We need a manager with a proper footballing philosophy. Zidane is just a more appealing version of Ole in that Zidane is more of a man manager than a coach.. I feel that for the short term, we just need to get back to winning and be competitive. I feel that Conte or Zidane are the two manager that can offer us that. However, if we want a manager with a proper footballing philosophy, then we should go for ten haag, Pochettino, or potters.
Our next managerial appoint will be tricky. We need to get rid of the class of 99 and the United way DNA. A manager like Van gaal was the right approach in that We need a manager with a proper footballing philosophy. Zidane is just a more appealing version of Ole in that Zidane is more of a man manager than a coach.. I feel that for the short term, we just need to get back to winning and be competitive. I feel that Conte or Zidane are the two manager that can offer us that. However, if we want a manager with a proper footballing philosophy, then we should go for ten haag, Pochettino, or potters.
I see no reason why we should accept this. Even some of the fans seem to think that the owners are terrible based on whether or not they buy each manager an entirely new team. No. There should be restriction on what we spend and an expectation that you take the job you work, largely, with what you have and if you're shown your worth and value to this football club then, over time, you will get the chance to mould the team into your own.
This notion of 'he's new, best get 9 new players and spend £500m immediately or we're a joke of a football club' needs to be dispelled.
A top manager with confidence in his talents and abilities will want to make changes but would largely be happy to work with what he has.
People eventually will wake up to the fact that no matter who is in charge it will all fall apart. The club is ran as a piggy bank and as a marketing tool.
Zidane and Conte are much better coaches than Ole but it will still all go wrong for them. Conte will probably end up lamping an executive within the 2 years he's here but eventually leaving. I honestly don't even think Zidane wants the job either. Can you blame him?
The club is a shambles and even with Ole gone it won't get much better without a sale of the entire club. Glazers have been the worst thing to ever happen to us.
Zidane and Conte are much better coaches than Ole but it will still all go wrong for them. Conte will probably end up lamping an executive within the 2 years he's here but eventually leaving. I honestly don't even think Zidane wants the job either. Can you blame him?
The club is a shambles and even with Ole gone it won't get much better without a sale of the entire club. Glazers have been the worst thing to ever happen to us.
Mourinho has qualified to CL back to back. When will people stop this nonsense metric just to give Ole any credit? And again we finished 2nd the season before he got the job.
The point about the signings is that it's more about the board rather than Ole's genius abilities as a scout. The board have invested heavily in the team and bought him ton of world class players but it's Ole who is getting the credit for being a chequebook manager. Ridiculous. Neither of these players were signed thanks to his scouting abilities.
The unbeaten away record is pointless when it wins you feck all. Neither City nor Chelsea will trade their league and CL trophies for our "unbeaten" run. As regarding our record in big games, we have been absolute shit in it ever since his second season. He won only 2 big games in the league out of 10 last season. He got thrashed by Spurs 6-1 last season.
Your metrics for Ole being not a failure just screams how much low the standards for him are in comparison to any other manager all honestly, especially when you consider how much money he invested in the squad with nothing major to show for.
We've been really bad with club management. At a very basic level, truthfully.
We've handed squads to managers who have no idea what to do with them over and over again. Moyes' squad made no sense for LVG, LVG's squad made no sense for Mourinho, Mourinho's squad made no sense for Ole, and now if we hand it over to Conte now, we'll mess it up again because this side is defensively not prepped for him. It's made for a manager who can definitely organize better systems than Ole, but the squad we have right now is capable of playing good free-flowing football while also letting the opponents play for good chunks of the game.
A basic assessment of what playing direction we want the next manager to take us in should be key to recruiting our next manager, but so far it honestly feels like we take a piece of paper that says 'trophies good, failure bad' and slide it across the table to whoever we want to recruit and look smug.
We've handed squads to managers who have no idea what to do with them over and over again. Moyes' squad made no sense for LVG, LVG's squad made no sense for Mourinho, Mourinho's squad made no sense for Ole, and now if we hand it over to Conte now, we'll mess it up again because this side is defensively not prepped for him. It's made for a manager who can definitely organize better systems than Ole, but the squad we have right now is capable of playing good free-flowing football while also letting the opponents play for good chunks of the game.
A basic assessment of what playing direction we want the next manager to take us in should be key to recruiting our next manager, but so far it honestly feels like we take a piece of paper that says 'trophies good, failure bad' and slide it across the table to whoever we want to recruit and look smug.
Ajax had 4 in 2 years until they found a winner in Ten Hag.
Not United though, you don’t know if someone’s a success until they’ve had 3 years and 400 million quid, cause “Fergie”
Not United though, you don’t know if someone’s a success until they’ve had 3 years and 400 million quid, cause “Fergie”
We sack him now, he's had enough time and it's not worked.
First thing we do is drop the sentimental nonsense when appointing someone.
Second thing we do is drop this 'United way'bollox. Its old, outdated and Emotional claptrap. You can't hire an exceptional manager on the basis they know how to coach and then expect them to go backwards and implement the 'United way' of 20-30yrs ago, they conflict.
Third thing you do is hire the best you can get even if that means breaking the bank. You then give them 2yrs to win some silverware, first year to get their team together, 2nd year to win something.
If they don't, then you off them and repeat the process until you find the right guy.
No nonsense, no sloppy emotional bs, no "United way' emotional bs, you get tough and you remain ruthless.
First thing we do is drop the sentimental nonsense when appointing someone.
Second thing we do is drop this 'United way'bollox. Its old, outdated and Emotional claptrap. You can't hire an exceptional manager on the basis they know how to coach and then expect them to go backwards and implement the 'United way' of 20-30yrs ago, they conflict.
Third thing you do is hire the best you can get even if that means breaking the bank. You then give them 2yrs to win some silverware, first year to get their team together, 2nd year to win something.
If they don't, then you off them and repeat the process until you find the right guy.
No nonsense, no sloppy emotional bs, no "United way' emotional bs, you get tough and you remain ruthless.
I say this as a fan, the board's view and goals are different:
His time here has been a failure. He has been backed, he got time, and he has been found to be out of his depths.
Its football, it happens, and it probably has a higher chance of happening if the manager we are talking about has never really won anything.
He should be sacked, and he should be sacked today. Everyday he isn't is a day wasted.
Whoever takes over now will be inheriting some exceptional players and need to be coached and managed. Let's not delay the inevitable and salvage what we can. We have to be as ruthless as this sport is.
His time here has been a failure. He has been backed, he got time, and he has been found to be out of his depths.
Its football, it happens, and it probably has a higher chance of happening if the manager we are talking about has never really won anything.
He should be sacked, and he should be sacked today. Everyday he isn't is a day wasted.
Whoever takes over now will be inheriting some exceptional players and need to be coached and managed. Let's not delay the inevitable and salvage what we can. We have to be as ruthless as this sport is.
And yet many fans are happy to take another upturn in style and go for Conte who will yet again bring no continuity in ideas or play style. It’s a mess and unfortunately a significant portion of our fans help facilitate this.
If we accept that Ole has done a decent job rebuilding the culture and the player quality then then the next step is to get in a better tactician to utilise what we have without needing tonnes more money. Perhaps Zidane could be that man but more likely we may have to wait for summer to get in a better manager such as Ten Hag or Poch.
Why don’t you try City or Chelsea if you want to take the emotion out the sport?
If you don’t want to see Utd using Youth then this isn’t the club for you.
If you don’t want to see Utd encouraging attacking football then this isn’t the club for you.
If you don’t want to maintain the ‘family feel’ and cultural identity of the team then again I’d suggest this isn’t the club for you.
All of the above constitutes the Utd Way and it doesn’t have to mean we are being nostalgic or can’t appoint modern managers, no it should be even more of a remedy to hire the correct talented manager. Ten Hag plays very different football to Juergen Klopp but both would be far superior to Ole and both would promote the Utd way. Don’t let these myths stop you moaning though!
It's not always failed managerial appointment if we don't become the best in the world and they don't stay for 20 years.
Moyes was a failed experiment.
Van Gaal had a good 1st year, meh 2nd year but won the FA Cup for the first time in a decade, and then we replaced him.
Mourinho won 2 trophies, then finished 2nd, and then failed in his 3rd year and we replaced him half way through.
Ole stabilized us and got back to back top 4 positions, but failed to win a trophy and now it's unraveling.
It happens. Very few managers can stay for a really long time and sustain success. Doesn't mean they're always failures. It's an art to know when is the right time to replace a manager and with who. Wait too long and you need a rebuild. Do it on time and you build on from the previous. Mourinho should've left summer 2018. Ole should've been replaced summer 2021. Of course you need to get the replacement right, but clubs don't need to ride a manager until a complete collapse. Some have discovered that (Bayern, Madrid, Chelsea very clearly see that), others wait for the collapse.
Moyes was a failed experiment.
Van Gaal had a good 1st year, meh 2nd year but won the FA Cup for the first time in a decade, and then we replaced him.
Mourinho won 2 trophies, then finished 2nd, and then failed in his 3rd year and we replaced him half way through.
Ole stabilized us and got back to back top 4 positions, but failed to win a trophy and now it's unraveling.
It happens. Very few managers can stay for a really long time and sustain success. Doesn't mean they're always failures. It's an art to know when is the right time to replace a manager and with who. Wait too long and you need a rebuild. Do it on time and you build on from the previous. Mourinho should've left summer 2018. Ole should've been replaced summer 2021. Of course you need to get the replacement right, but clubs don't need to ride a manager until a complete collapse. Some have discovered that (Bayern, Madrid, Chelsea very clearly see that), others wait for the collapse.
In other news..
"It is understood that Managing director Richard Arnold has cancelled all appointments today [Monday] to hold talks with Joel Glazer. [@JamieJackson___] #mufc"
"It is understood that Managing director Richard Arnold has cancelled all appointments today [Monday] to hold talks with Joel Glazer. [@JamieJackson___] #mufc"
There’s no style to turn away from, it’s a shambles on and off the ball. Ole has built nothing on the pitch just wasted loads of time. What manager is going to come in and play the same way?, you can’t continue on from this dross.
What has he changed about the culture other than talking about it a lot?. The players don’t work hard, even likes of Mctominay are just jogging around, people don’t track back, we tackle less than any other team. It’s rotten and there’s loads of work to be done to get rid of this rot that’s been allowed to set in.