2Pac vs Biggy

Both brilliant but I prefer Tupac personally, not by much though. 2Pacalypse is currently in the CD player in my car actually. Shame we didn't get to witness more from them both.

Yeah big time man. If only they had of kept out of the firing line til things eventually blew over with the feuding. If they were around now - they'd put the pretender likes of West etc.. firmly in their place.

Sadly, I dont listen to any of the new hip-hop / rap these days - i'm quite content to stick with the masters because that for me, is where hip-hop / rap sowed the seeds for generations & present-day fecks like West have undeservedly reaped the rewards :mad:
 
You have to feel Rap would (and should) be so much better than it currently is, imagine any other musical genre where the two biggest artists are killed within a year of each other - it would (and did) effectively begin the end. In my opinion anyway. Eminem was alright, until he decided the only thing worth talking about was his mum, which eventually gets boring. This is all very mainstream however.
 
I've perfectly memorized the "Triumph" song.The first verse from Inspectah Deck is just speechless
I don't think I'ver heard either 2pac or biggie get close to that technicality

I do understand what you are saying, but surely verses from Triumph, don't really mean much apart from being a very clever use of word play, metaphors etc.
Take a line like " I remember Marvin Gaye, used to sing ta me He had me feelin like black was tha thing to be" (keep your head up) says and means so much more to me. I think people relate can relate to tupac, its heartfelt. i suppose there's a connection on an emotional level.
I dont know many rappers/hip hop artists that have achieved this.
For all the bravado, there was a vulnerability to tupac that people could relate to.
 
With music loving, its not even a question of being older, its a fact of having a comparison from what you know is good & what you know is a poor immitation. I can see why 50+ year old men & women continuously only listen to Pink Floyd, The Who, The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zeppelin etc.. they compare the vibe there was bad then to whats around now & they dont want any part of the new breed of rock. I'm the same with Hip-Hop / Rap, with the exception (from the top of my head) of Dre's "2001" and Eminem's first two offerings during the "noughties"!
 
I do understand what you are saying, but surely verses from Triumph, don't really mean much apart from being a very clever use of word play, metaphors etc.
Take a line like " I remember Marvin Gaye, used to sing ta me He had me feelin like black was tha thing to be" (keep your head up) says and means so much more to me. I think people relate can relate to tupac, its heartfelt. i suppose there's a connection on an emotional level.
I dont know many rappers/hip hop artists that have achieved this.
For all the bravado, there was a vulnerability to tupac that people could relate to.

Nail on the head & reat quote too man :cool:

I felt the way he courted women in his lyrics was a huge risk because of the macho-gangsta attitude affiliated to rap, but it worked with blokes - making them think a little different & ladies loved that he came across as understanding of the shit they go through from men. He was such a well-balanced rapper - pleased everyone!

I love all types of rap / hip-hop, but to choose a particular song as my favourite would be completely impossible - in any style. "Triumph" is a masterpiece in its own right & "Keep ya head up" is too. They're both "different tunes for different moods" :)
 
Biggie was better. Both are overrated though. All IMO of course ;)

Give me some classic Nas, Jay or Eminem anyday of the week ahead of the other two.
 
Wu Tang Forever is a great album, despite more than half of it being shite. I don't even rate Triumph as one of the standout tracks.

A Better Tomorrow > *
 
I do understand what you are saying, but surely verses from Triumph, don't really mean much apart from being a very clever use of word play, metaphors etc.
Take a line like " I remember Marvin Gaye, used to sing ta me He had me feelin like black was tha thing to be" (keep your head up) says and means so much more to me. I think people relate can relate to tupac, its heartfelt. i suppose there's a connection on an emotional level.
I dont know many rappers/hip hop artists that have achieved this.
For all the bravado, there was a vulnerability to tupac that people could relate to.

I get you because maybe when you listen to me you're looking to be touched or you appreciate songs that touches you.
When I listen rap songs my prime focus is on the technical prowess of the artists, the rest comes as a bonus.
*technique+emotion=> great track
*technique+ not some much emotion=> good track
*emotion without real technique => still a good song but I don't like listening to them
 


Sorry RHD, each to his own and all that but that ain't hip-hop. Absolute fecking garbage in my opinion. Just sums him up for me does that vid, never rated Tupac never got into him and I never bought his records. Sorry man, I love ya and all that but that to me is a million miles away from the real thing. No offence fella but that's R'n'B you just posted there - and shite R'n'B too.

Love Biggie though, still got Ready To Die and a 12" press of Juicy on vinyl, I'll never sell those records.
 
Sorry RHD, each to his own and all that but that ain't hip-hop. Absolute fecking garbage in my opinion. Just sums him up for me does that vid, never rated Tupac never got into him and I never bought his records. Sorry man, I love ya and all that but that to me is a million miles away from the real thing. No offence fella but that's R'n'B you just posted there - and shite R'n'B too.

Love Biggie though, still got Ready To Die and a 12" press of Juicy on vinyl, I'll never sell those records.

Thats fair enough man, it wasnt a song that I was pointing to as reason to burn candles in homage tho. I was just showing the versatility of the man & the topics he covered. I happen to think its a cracking tune tho :p

I suppose if you never liked him when he was around then you're more than likely to dislike him the same with him being dead. Each to their own as you said :cool:
 
Thats fair enough man, it wasnt a song that I was pointing to as reason to burn candles in homage tho. I was just showing the versatility of the man & the topics he covered. I happen to think its a cracking tune tho :p

I suppose if you never liked him when he was around then you're more than likely to dislike him the same with him being dead. Each to their own as you said :cool:

Each to their own and I meant no offence mate.

It's still drivel though to me. Being 20 years in the DJing game I've had people come up to me all enthusiastic about him and that but I just don't get him. Maybe I was looking in the wrong places but it's just too commercial for me.
 
Must admit I like the older stuff. I loved an angry Ice Cube, for example. Just love aggressive hip hop.
 
I loved Predator and AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted - Bootleg and B Sides was a quality listen too. But he was never the same since. Lethal Injection was a step in the wrong direction. . then again I bet he didn't have much to be angry about. Nor would I with a few million in the bank. . .
 
Pac touched on real subjects though, racism, oppression, love etc dude had it all. Pac used to rhyme more syllables than Biggy but Biggy had a better flow.

Well, hmm, no...Maybe sometimes more syllables, but not necessarily good syllables...or even good rhymes. Which is sort of what it's all about when it comes to who was the better "rapper"

Biggie was easily the better rapper....easily. And as someone who absolutely despises gangster rap and everything it stands for, I have no sway with the "listen man, he was telling the truth and shit motherfecker yeah" brigade...I don't care. He was a dick in most of his songs (though there are some touching exceptions), and not a brilliant rhymer. Dead Prez tell "the truth" about racism (if you think paranoid revolutionary conspiracy rhetoric is the truth) but I can admire them as genuinely very good rappers. 2Pac, not so much, though he certainly had a big personality and a nice smile.
There's a bloke who lives down my street who shouts angrily about racism and poverty and everything thats shit in his life all day bloody long...I'm not gonna claim that makes up for his lack of outstanding talent though.

Never liked Pac, though he very clearly wasn't aimed at me. Biggie was a brilliant rapper at his best, but unfortunately crippled by the annoying presence of P.Diddly Doo. Still him by a country mile though.
 
Well, hmm, no...Maybe sometimes more syllables, but not necessarily good syllables...or even good rhymes. Which is sort of what it's all about when it comes to who was the better "rapper"

Biggie was easily the better rapper....easily. And as someone who absolutely despises gangster rap and everything it stands for, I have no sway with the "listen man, he was telling the truth and shit motherfecker yeah" brigade...I don't care. He was a dick in most of his songs (though there are some touching exceptions), and not a brilliant rhymer. Dead Prez tell "the truth" about racism (if you think paranoid revolutionary conspiracy rhetoric is the truth) but I can admire them as genuinely very good rappers. 2Pac, not so much, though he certainly had a big personality and a nice smile.
There's a bloke who lives down my street who shouts angrily about racism and poverty and everything thats shit in his life all day bloody long...I'm not gonna claim that makes up for his lack of outstanding talent though.

Never liked Pac, though he very clearly wasn't aimed at me. Biggie was a brilliant rapper at his best, but unfortunately crippled by the annoying presence of P.Diddly Doo. Still him by a country mile though.

How do you define what talent is, Pac made songs that touched people, he was a brilliant song writer contrary to what I'm reading on here. Breaking him down into some gangster rapper who was a dick in his songs makes me believe you have not heard alot of his material. He touched on so many topics
 
Each to their own and I meant no offence mate.

It's still drivel though to me. Being 20 years in the DJing game I've had people come up to me all enthusiastic about him and that but I just don't get him. Maybe I was looking in the wrong places but it's just too commercial for me.

Oh I know man - fret not kind Sir. He's not everyone's cup of tea - same with alot of hip-hop / rap artists :D

I love much of the 90's shit, other stuff I dont. Dont like all of Tupac or Biggies stuff either. The bling commercial stuff is what particularly puts me off & always has done. Sure a few tracks of Tupacs were commercial but so were Biggies too. The whole thing went commercial when Puffy got his hands on Biggie. It went all status, wearing bowlers & sitting on throwns. What a bunch of Mugsy Malone looking muthafukka's :mad:
 
2pac for me, the quality of his albums declined as his popularity grew late on and he became the deathrow poster child. a shame cuz me against the world is brilliant and R U Still Down is near perfect

to be fair to Biggie his body of work (unlike his actual body) is dwarfed by Pacs, though i guess that could also be an advantage as he never got the chance to 'fall off' which he certainly would have done - they all do

oh and GFK is miles better than both combined
 
Yes.

Cypress Hill's first album was quality too.

Temples of Boom is feckin wicked also....



Illusions Lyrics

[B-Real]
"Some people tell me that I need help
Some people can feck off and go to hell
God damn, why they criticize me
Now shit is on the rise so my family despise me
feck 'em! And feed 'em, cause I don't need 'em
I won't join 'em if I can beat 'em
They don't understand my logic
To my gat to my money and I'm hooked on chronic
I never wanted to hurt a nigga
Unless ya come flexin that trigga, I dig ya
That grave on the east side of towwwwn
Lay ya six feet undergrounnnnd
From man, to the dust to the ashes
All I remember tell me where the cash is
Clicl-clack, barrel at my dome
Give all your loot or you ain't goin home
But I ain't goin out with a bang
Wa da da dang, wa dada daa dang

[Chorus]
I'm havin illusions, all this confusion's drivin me mad inside
I'm havin illusions, all this confusion's feckin me up in my mind
I'm havin illusions, all this confusion's drivin me mad inside
I'm havin illusions, all this confusion's feckin me up in my mind

[B-Real]
Motherfeckers be drivin me up the walls
Hopin that I fall but they can lick my balls
Straight jacket, strap it
In a padded room when some punk niggaz can't hack it
Distracted from all reality
Now I'm let out on a minor technicality
(ahhh) They all fecked up now
Cause they let a nigga back on the streets somehow
I'm lookin for someone like me
Livin in my own world to my own degree
On the loose in the city lookin at the ho wit the big titties
Lookin at me and I feel shitty
A little tensed up gettin hot
Cause she looks like my girl who just smoked at the crack spot
I'm tryin to find ways to cope
But I ain't feckin round with the gauge or a rope

[Chorus]

[B-Real]
I'm havin illusions..
I'm havin illusions..
I'm havin illusions..
I'm havin illusions..
I'm havin illusions..
I'm havin illusions..
I'm havin illusions..
I'm havin illusions...."
 
Must admit I like the older stuff. I loved an angry Ice Cube, for example. Just love aggressive hip hop.

What rapper is better than Ice Cube? There are a few rappers with a richer voice or better flow, a few with virtuoso lyrics, and maybe one or two with more charisma. But no-one has all those qualities at the level Cube does. He's the Roy Keane of rappers, a top trump with everything in the nineties...
 
the thug life album is brilliant

Bury Me A G is one of my all time favourite tracks

Hold Ya Head from the Makaveli album too is great, the 3rd verse is haunting. He really didnt expect to last much longer, and he was right
 
What rapper is better than Ice Cube? There are a few rappers with a richer voice or better flow, a few with virtuoso lyrics, and maybe one or two with more charisma. But no-one has all those qualities at the level Cube does. He's the Roy Keane of rappers, a top trump with everything in the nineties...

The best? yeah, I'd go with that. As you said, what rapper's better? well, not many. Nas had fantastic style, I suppose - but for uplifting hip hop Ice Cube at his best and most aggressive can't be beaten. Dr Dre admitted that Cube was the brains behind NWA and all.

Me Wicked!

 






My favourite Biggie tracks. Ready to Die was an amazing album
 
How do you define what talent is,

In rapping? Lyricism and Worldplay mostly. It's poetry. What you get across is a big thing, but the "talent" comes in how you get it across, rather than just getting it across. It varies for different people though. For some things it's technical skill, for others insight. It's an irrelevant thing to discuss cos if you thought he got it across well, that's talent to you. To me it isn't significantly.

Pac made songs that touched people, he was a brilliant song writer contrary to what I'm reading on here.

No, he was a brilliant conveyor of things which touched people. Not a brilliant song writer (IMO of course)

Breaking him down into some gangster rapper who was a dick in his songs makes me believe you have not heard alot of his material.

I have. As I said there are some touching exceptions. His songs about women or his mum were actually very refreshing..He wasn't entirely a gangster no, but the vast wealth of "look how much of a thug I am" stuff is irksome to me and tarnishes his image..Biggie was just as a big a softie as Pac, but Pac's bigger allure came from his tough guy gangsterism IMO. Hit 'em Up is a pathetic poisonous song for example.

He touched on so many topics

But so do a lot of people. That doesn't make him any better at being a rapper (or a song writer as you rather eroniously put it) It gives him a good ear I suppose...a good social commentator. But it's quite clear Biggie was the better actual rapper...as far as actual rapping goes. 2 Pac's success came mostly from the Zeitgeist. He was an icon of the times and for certain people of those times, but as much (if not more) for who he was than what he said. Being the good looking, charming son of a black panther was a great little Page Ranking advantage (not Page Ranking in the cynical advertising way, in the way of it attracting people to him is what I mean)

Release both now as unknown artists, and Biggie would outstrip Pac in both sales and acclaim by the bucket load. In fact imagine Tupac looked like Biggie, and had his history, and the same would apply.
 
Biggie wasn't really 'by far' a better rapper, if you mean he talked more shit. Then yes, you are correct. Biggie was talking about the life 'Pac actually lived, ironically enough - whether Biggie was more technically astute - as has been said - is largely irrelevant. Johnny Mathis could sing better than Bob Dylan, who is more important?
 
You can't compare signing to writing. It's unequatable. Rapping involves creatively writing something, not just saying it.
 
It's funny you mention poetry because Pac actually wrote the stuff, he even wrote a movie script, he's as talented as they get:D
On Song writing,His classics are still touching people to this day, does that not mean he's a great song writer? I can listen to rappers spitting the most lyrical verses but if it doesn't have a clear message is it truly a great song? Not in my opinion.

I don't know, seems to be a bit of a contradiction for somebody to be able to get messages across touch people, have his songs being played over a decade after his death by the masses and not be seen as a great song writer. He wrote many beautiful songs.


I have. As I said there are some touching exceptions. His songs about women or his mum were actually very refreshing.He wasn't entirely a gangster no, but the vast wealth of "look how much of a thug I am" stuff is irksome to me
.

That's the thing, the whole gangster stuff was the exception in my opinion and not the other way round, most of his songs were songs were about real subjects. Being brought up in poverty, racism,love songs, tracks like this, you can tell he's the son a Panther.


Pac felt the racism around him, he used it to preach to the masses and not to sell records. It's not an image, it's how he truly felt. It's what was affecting him (he even won a case against being beaten up by cops for no good reason) and his people all the time and through his music was a way of getting it across to people. Listening to 2pac you could get a real insight of how bad it was in the black projects of America, which has not changed much till this day. He gave people who were suffering a voice.

How many rappers could come out with single's like Brenda has a Baby depicting the life of a young mother like Pac?


On song writing and lyrical ability it's subjective, so many rappers, especially underground ones have amazing ability with words but for me it's about being able to use your ability to get a true message across an touch people. To make songs with meaning, can you turn those metaphors, syllables to make a political message, to touch on poverty, racism, or to even make songs about love, family. For me,that's where alot of these amazing lyricist suffer the most and where Pac excelled.

I like to write songs for fun, but the hardest thing for me is actually getting them to have any meaning, so in that way Pac was a better song writer than Biggy whose lyrics couldn't touch people in the same way.

Pac made great songs! This made him a great song writer!
 
You can't compare signing to writing. It's unequatable. Rapping involves creatively writing something, not just saying it.

Yes but you suggest Biggie is the better rapper based on technicality, what I'm saying is, Johnny Mathis could sing better than Dylan, but Dylan was essentially changing music (especially folk) just like Tupac was changing rap much more than Biggie.
 
The best? yeah, I'd go with that. As you said, what rapper's better? well, not many. Nas had fantastic style, I suppose - but for uplifting hip hop Ice Cube at his best and most aggressive can't be beaten. Dr Dre admitted that Cube was the brains behind NWA and all.

Me Wicked!



Quality, haven't listened to that in years!

See that's exactly what I'm talking about. The fecker is unstoppable. Who else can do that?
 
I've finally realised why I don't consider hip-hop as good as other forms of music... subtlety. It generally lacks it.
 
Yes but you suggest Biggie is the better rapper based on technicality, what I'm saying is, Johnny Mathis could sing better than Dylan, but Dylan was essentially changing music (especially folk) just like Tupac was changing rap much more than Biggie.

If he was changing it, it certainly wasn't for the better. Hip Hop nowadays is a shadow of it's former self.

I agree with Spoony. Hip Hop is best when it's aggressive. feck all this r(ap) & b(ullshit).