2022 World Cup Qatar thread

stevoc said:
Commendable but it seems like they could have done just a bit more.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...grant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022
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Yeah, they could have come up with hyperbolic titles in their own media outlets. Again, it says 6500 workers have died - no where does it say while constructing the stadium sites. Doesn't even mention how many were construction workers. Again, propaganda by the west to tell us how bad Russia, China and all of the middle east is.
 
snk123 said:
Yeah, they could have come up with hyperbolic titles in their own media outlets. Again, it says 6500 workers have died - no where does it say while constructing the stadium sites. Doesn't even mention how many were construction workers. Again, propaganda by the west to tell us how bad Russia, China and all of the middle east is.
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Read the article.
 
snk123 said:
Yeah, they could have come up with hyperbolic titles in their own media outlets. Again, it says 6500 workers have died - no where does it say while constructing the stadium sites. Doesn't even mention how many were construction workers. Again, propaganda by the west to tell us how bad Russia, China and all of the middle east is.
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What other types of workers are dying in their thousands in Qatar?

Also does it matter if they were actually working on stadiums for the World Cup?

You said Qatar has done a lot for the conditions of workers or have they just slightly improved conditions for workers on the stadium projects but ignored the rest?
 
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The Boy said:
Is that you Emir?
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OK. I only want to keep to football topics and not get into
justsomebloke said:
I'm not strongly in either camp, for my part. I'm really pissed about the decision to award the tournament to Qatar, for a number of reasons, but ultimately I look forward to the football. I think an excellent way of avoiding such predicaments would be for FIFA to show some fecking judgment, and avoid awarding major tournaments to countries that make zero sense as hosts from a footballing, political or human rights perspective.

I don't think what the Norwegians and Germans are doing is an empty gesture. But without being overly cynical, there might be an element here of doing something like this partly because it helps avoiding the more extreme alternative, which is to boycott the tournament altogether.

fun fact: Norway and West Germany were, if I remember correctly, the only European countries who chose to boycott the 1980 olympics in Moscow over the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
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Bin FIFA
snk123 said:
Yeah, they could have come up with hyperbolic titles in their own media outlets. Again, it says 6500 workers have died - no where does it say while constructing the stadium sites. Doesn't even mention how many were construction workers. Again, propaganda by the west to tell us how bad Russia, China and all of the middle east is.
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Well I agree this is misleading as it doesnt state specific deaths on World Cup Stadiums . This is 156. However, 6500 deaths = around 10 deaths a week which is an appalling statistic
 
MikeeMike said:
Qatar has 14 (FOURTEEN) footbll clubs and US women would beat their national team if allowed to play football.
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Mrs Smoker said:
Hehe, good one. Maybe u12.
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This is the kind of racist, ignorant BS that you can expect.

Qatar are the current Asian Cup champions in which Australia, Japan, Iran, China, South Korea and other countries participated.
 
MikeeMike said:
Well I agree this is misleading as it doesnt state specific deaths on World Cup Stadiums . This is 156. However, 6500 deaths = around 10 deaths a week which is an appalling statistic
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It really is not if you discard the article. In UK a population of 70million - there were around 700,000 deaths in 2020 - a death rate of 10. Even if we make it 15,000 deaths instead of 6500 in 10 years in Qatar, it comes down to, 1500 deaths a year. In a country with a population of 3 million, it is a death rate of 1%.
 
Acrobat7 said:
He is definitely working for Qatar‘s PR department.
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I wish I was - apparently they pay a lot. But sadly for you I detest these Arab regimes more than others. They are blood sucking, worker exploiting self entitled morons who were handed a fecking lottery (read: oil) and have never had to work hard for anything their entire lives. They are racist c**** who exploit workers from South Asia, treat them like slaves and think money can buy everything - hence their corruption.

BUT! That is also UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait etc. all of them. AND U.S, U.K have been involved in more heinous crimes against humanity.
So what I don't get is the selective outrage supposedly on human rights when Saudi Arabia continues to bomb the shit out of Yemen, Syria, aided by the U.S.

And what you guys don't get is that this is also a political agenda to move the world cup away from Qatar (which UAE and allies want) - If the reason was actually human rights, then it wouldn't be so selective.
 
snk123 said:
It really is not if you discard the article. In UK a population of 70million - there were around 700,000 deaths in 2020 - a death rate of 10. Even if we make it 15,000 deaths instead of 6500 in 10 years in Qatar, it comes down to, 1500 deaths a year. In a country with a population of 3 million, it is a death rate of 1%.
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That comparison might work better if the entire 70m population of the UK were working age construction workers.

It's 6,500 deaths (that they know of) out of 2,000,000 presumably fairly young and healthy migrant construction workers.

So off the top of my head that must be 10-12 deaths per week or 550-620 deaths per year in the last 10 years. As opposed to 40 construction related deaths in the UK last year. From a pool of around 1m construction workers.

Now my rough numbers may be off but its still shockingly high for so many to be dying each year in Qatar.

And I must admit I always find it very crass that these discussions inevitably degenerate into numbers games when we're discussing people losing their lives here.
 
snk123 said:
It really is not if you discard the article. In UK a population of 70million - there were around 700,000 deaths in 2020 - a death rate of 10. Even if we make it 15,000 deaths instead of 6500 in 10 years in Qatar, it comes down to, 1500 deaths a year. In a country with a population of 3 million, it is a death rate of 1%.
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111 per year in UK
650 per year Qatar - All migrant workers.
 
snk123 said:
It really is not if you discard the article. In UK a population of 70million - there were around 700,000 deaths in 2020 - a death rate of 10. Even if we make it 15,000 deaths instead of 6500 in 10 years in Qatar, it comes down to, 1500 deaths a year. In a country with a population of 3 million, it is a death rate of 1%.
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That's an impressive amount of fallacy to cram into such a short post. "Death rate" is the percentage of a population who dies in a year. What you are providing is a number of annual deaths, ie, the number of people who die for all reasons. Note in this regard that 700,000 is not 10% of 70 million, but 1%.

This is something that is a) totally different to a number for people dying of work-related accidents and b) is in itself wholly irrelevant to the issue of work safety and labor standards.

But since you bring it up, annual deaths in Qatar is in the area of slightly above 2,000. Which rather does put a figure of 6,500 deaths in the construction sector into perspective.
 
snk123 said:
I wish I was - apparently they pay a lot. But sadly for you I detest these Arab regimes more than others. They are blood sucking, worker exploiting self entitled morons who were handed a fecking lottery (read: oil) and have never had to work hard for anything their entire lives. They are racist c**** who exploit workers from South Asia, treat them like slaves and think money can buy everything - hence their corruption.

BUT! That is also UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait etc. all of them. AND U.S, U.K have been involved in more heinous crimes against humanity.
So what I don't get is the selective outrage supposedly on human rights when Saudi Arabia continues to bomb the shit out of Yemen, Syria, aided by the U.S.

And what you guys don't get is that this is also a political agenda to move the world cup away from Qatar (which UAE and allies want) - If the reason was actually human rights, then it wouldn't be so selective.
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But Qatar does the same thing. Why are you dissembling outrage at the rest of the GCC and chosen to exculpate Qatar, one of the worst countries on the planet in terms of human rights? Moreover, you compound your fallacious reasoning by accusing the respondents in this thread of being selective, failing to spot that this is exactly what you're doing in the process.
 
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snk123 said:
This is the kind of racist, ignorant BS that you can expect.

Qatar are the current Asian Cup champions in which Australia, Japan, Iran, China, South Korea and other countries participated.
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Mainly due to the unprecedented neutralisation that other countries in that area don't engage in. When Qatar has been handing out citizenships like flyers and when its national football team consists of really talented south Americans wearing a Qatari national team shirt, i surely don't have to point out that there isn't much to be proud of, and there's a reason the Qatari football federation's approach has been criticized heavily for the past decade and a half or so.

All of this doesn't address the real issue here: migrant deaths as a result of negligence when it comes to their safety.
 
justsomebloke said:
That's an impressive amount of fallacy to cram into such a short post. "Death rate" is the percentage of a population who dies in a year. What you are providing is a number of annual deaths, ie, the number of people who die for all reasons. Note in this regard that 700,000 is not 10% of 70 million, but 1%.

This is something that is a) totally different to a number for people dying of work-related accidents and b) is in itself wholly irrelevant to the issue of work safety and labor standards.

But since you bring it up, annual deaths in Qatar is in the area of slightly above 2,000. Which rather does put a figure of 6,500 deaths in the construction sector into perspective.
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Well said . Defending the obvious shocking disregard for human rights is bad enough but blatent posting of false statistics is crass.
 
justsomebloke said:
That's an impressive amount of fallacy to cram into such a short post. "Death rate" is the percentage of a population who dies in a year. What you are providing is a number of annual deaths, ie, the number of people who die for all reasons. Note in this regard that 700,000 is not 10% of 70 million, but 1%.

This is something that is a) totally different to a number for people dying of work-related accidents and b) is in itself wholly irrelevant to the issue of work safety and labor standards.

But since you bring it up, annual deaths in Qatar is in the area of slightly above 2,000. Which rather does put a figure of 6,500 deaths in the construction sector into perspective.
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That's an impressive amount of bias to cram as well. I provided the annual deaths and an estimate of annual deaths in Qatar. Because, surprise surprise, the Guardian article DOES NOT say that the deaths are "work related". Maybe it's too difficult for some to understand with their racist, political agenda.

Also, death rate is per 1000 people so UK death rate is 10 and Qatar's death rate is 1. I didn't say 10%.

Again, where the feck does the article say that the 6500 deaths are from the construction sector? Why do people have to make up stuff from their respective arses to suit their agendas?
 
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MikeeMike said:
Well said . Defending the obvious shocking disregard for human rights is bad enough but blatent posting of false statistics is crass.
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Obvious? The Qatar government says: "only 20 per cent of expatriates from the countries in question are employed in construction, and that work-related deaths in this sector accounted for fewer than 10 percent of fatalities within this group."

Why is it obvious? Why should we believe one and not the other? I'm all for an independent investigation into this - but to just come up with figures and imply 6500 people, all died while constructing stadiums (even when the article doesn't even claim that) is more crass, racist and blatant ignorance.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
But Qatar does the same thing. Why are you dissembling outrage at the rest of the GCC and chosen to exculpate Qatar, one of the worst countries on the planet in terms of human rights? Moreover, you compound your fallacious reasoning by accusing the respondents in this thread of being selective, failing to spot that this is exactly what you're doing in the process.
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Not at all, I'm all for raising this issue - having independent observers look into the process (which they should have been from day one) and making sure that human rights are given priority.

My only issue is with jumping the gun and asking for the WC to be moved away from Qatar after everything has been done - because that clearly reeks of a political agenda driven by UAE/Saudi Arabia.
 
This World cup can feck off as far as I am concerned.
Everything about it is rotten to the core.
 
snk123 said:
That's an impressive amount of bias to cram as well. I provided the annual deaths and an estimate of annual deaths in Qatar. Because, surprise surprise, the Guardian article DOES NOT say that the deaths are "work related". Maybe it's too difficult for some to understand with their racist, political agenda.

Also, death rate is per 1000 people so UK death rate is 10 and Qatar's death rate is 1. I didn't say 10%.

Again, where the feck does the article say that the 6500 deaths are from the construction sector? Why do people have to make up stuff from their respective arses to suit their agendas?
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So you are quoting a figure for UK deaths pr. 1,000, and the comparing that with a figure for Qatar deaths pr. 100? (ie, "1%"). Let me put that in a simpler way for you: UK and Qatar has the same death rate - roughly 1%, or roughly 10/1,000.

Or at least, that would be the case if the figures you quoted for Qatar had been correct, which of course they weren't, even though you arrived by a circuitous route to the right death rate. The annual deaths in Qatar can be found by anyone with google. They are slightly above 2,000 per year.

None of this however has anything to do with the figure 6,500, which pertains to the number of South Asian migrant workers who have died in Qatar during the last ten years. That's all.

I agree actually that the figure in itself appears to be interpreted by some rather more dramatically than there is really apparent cause for. Given the time period and high proportion of migrants in the Qatari population, it's not a huge figure, if I understand its basis correctly. At the very least, you'd need more and better analysis to see it as indicating a vast and excessive number of construction sector deaths.

The working conditions documented in the Amnesty report is rather more the point for me.

Oh, and why don't you drop the the "racist and political agenda" nonsense. It's just silly.
 
snk123 said:
Obvious? The Qatar government says: "only 20 per cent of expatriates from the countries in question are employed in construction, and that work-related deaths in this sector accounted for fewer than 10 percent of fatalities within this group."

Why is it obvious? Why should we believe one and not the other? I'm all for an independent investigation into this - but to just come up with figures and imply 6500 people, all died while constructing stadiums (even when the article doesn't even claim that) is more crass, racist and blatant ignorance.
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I didn’t state that figure. I said that “Well I agree this is misleading as it doesnt state specific deaths on World Cup Stadiums . This is 156.”
 
Premier League reveals 2022/23 season dates and Qatar World Cup break

Premier League 2022/23 season to start on 6 August 2022 and finish on 28 May 2023; Mid-season break between November 14 and December 26 in order to accommodate World Cup; Standalone FA Cup final weekend to be retained
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https://www.skysports.com/football/...022-23-season-dates-and-qatar-world-cup-break

So the players should get a couple of decent preseason breaks. But that August to May calendar looks really packed. Especially when you include that energy sapping jaunt to the desert.
 


So, the Danish FA comes out with actions related to the World Cup in Qatar. Can't really decide if these are meaningful or mostly worthless posturing to appease the critics. Humans rights messages in place of sponsors might be a slight annoyance to the regime, but since it is only on training kits it won't get that much attention I guess.

Anyway, it is better than nothing. Hopefully other nations follow or go even further.
 
Dante said:
So the players should get a couple of decent preseason breaks. But that August to May calendar looks really packed. Especially when you include that energy sapping jaunt to the desert.
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The amount of football that players have jammed in ever since the first lockdown is actually quite mad.
 
Mike Smalling said:


So, the Danish FA comes out with actions related to the World Cup in Qatar. Can't really decide if these are meaningful or mostly worthless posturing to appease the critics. Humans rights messages in place of sponsors might be a slight annoyance to the regime, but since it is only on training kits it won't get that much attention I guess.

Anyway, it is better than nothing. Hopefully other nations follow or go even further.
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Pointless action for me. They need to grow a pair and boycott the thing if they care that much.

Edit - It is however better than what most nations will do so fair enough.
 
All countries and players should boycott the whole thing. It was clear the whole thing was a farce from the outset.

But we all know they won't. They'll all go and play, be good boys and say how great it was.
 
Mike Smalling said:


So, the Danish FA comes out with actions related to the World Cup in Qatar. Can't really decide if these are meaningful or mostly worthless posturing to appease the critics. Humans rights messages in place of sponsors might be a slight annoyance to the regime, but since it is only on training kits it won't get that much attention I guess.

Anyway, it is better than nothing. Hopefully other nations follow or go even further.
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How many countries would need to boycott in order for FIFA to scrap it's biggest event?

I think people are grossly underestimating this number and think if England/Brazil opt out, it'll create this domino effect. In reality, you'll find other countries willing to take their place. I'd anticipate Qatar applying diplomatic pressure behind the scenes as well.
 
Mike Smalling said:


So, the Danish FA comes out with actions related to the World Cup in Qatar. Can't really decide if these are meaningful or mostly worthless posturing to appease the critics. Humans rights messages in place of sponsors might be a slight annoyance to the regime, but since it is only on training kits it won't get that much attention I guess.

Anyway, it is better than nothing. Hopefully other nations follow or go even further.
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Abstaining from commercial activities and relinquishing place on shirts for humanitarian, openly critical against Qatar agencies is quite big if you ask me and surely makes some in Doha rather annoyed. Wouldn’t call it meaningless - imagine if it was ten teams, not one, with a message on their shirts clearly hinting at inhuman practices in Qatar. We’re talking about stuff that will be seen by over a billion people, surely not a good look for the hosts and surely raising some awareness, even if it would not change a thing there.
 
Red Star One said:
Abstaining from commercial activities and relinquishing place on shirts for humanitarian, openly critical against Qatar agencies is quite big if you ask me and surely makes some in Doha rather annoyed. Wouldn’t call it meaningless - imagine if it was ten teams, not one, with a message on their shirts clearly hinting at inhuman practices in Qatar. We’re talking about stuff that will be seen by over a billion people, surely not a good look for the hosts and surely raising some awareness, even if it would not change a thing there.
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It won't change anything...Denmark isn't a big team, the impact won't be big.
In order for this to be a big deal, Germany,Italy,France,Brazil, Argentina,England, and Netherlands are needed....and i don't see any of these teams releasing an statement against Qatar, considering that the countries do/have businesses/commercial deals with Qatar.
It's easier to point what countries don't do businesses with Qatar than to point the ones who do.

What's has been done, has been done.

Qatar WC is gonna happen anyway, because money talks.
 
Wolf1992 said:
It won't change anything...Denmark isn't a big team, the impact won't be big.
In order for this to be a big deal, Germany,Italy,France,Brazil, Argentina,England, and Netherlands are needed....and i don't see any of these teams releasing an statement against Qatar, considering that the countries do/have businesses/commercial deals with Qatar.
It's easier to point what countries don't do businesses with Qatar than to point the ones who do.

What's has been done, has been done.

Qatar WC is gonna happen anyway, because money talks.
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Out of those I can only see Germany or the Netherlands doing something similar. France and England have too many economic interests in the Persian Gulf.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
Mainly due to the unprecedented neutralisation that other countries in that area don't engage in. When Qatar has been handing out citizenships like flyers and when its national football team consists of really talented south Americans wearing a Qatari national team shirt, i surely don't have to point out that there isn't much to be proud of, and there's a reason the Qatari football federation's approach has been criticized heavily for the past decade and a half or so.

All of this doesn't address the real issue here: migrant deaths as a result of negligence when it comes to their safety.
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I know this post was a long time ago, but that's a myth, the 2019 Asian cup winning team had no South American players. There were however, 2 Algerians and 2 Sudanese that came through the Qatar aspire academy and were given nationality and one Portuguese centre back. Of those 5 'Non Qataris' only 3 started in the 3-1 win against Japan in the final.

I also find it a bit ironic that you would use that as an example especially when only 5 of the starters in the world cup winning French team were actually French.

Or are only Europeans allowed to take advantage of the skills of immigrants ?
 
the_cliff said:
I know this post was a long time ago, but that's a myth, the 2019 Asian cup winning team had no South American players. There were however, 2 Algerians and 2 Sudanese that came through the Qatar aspire academy and were given nationality and one Portuguese centre back. Of those 5 'Non Qataris' only 3 started in the 3-1 win against Japan in the final.

I also find it a bit ironic that you would use that as an example especially when only 5 of the starters in the world cup winning French team were actually French.

Or are only Europeans allowed to take advantage of the skills of immigrants ?
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5 players born not in Qatar, and only one of them coming through the Qatari academy, as algerian Boualem Khoukhi did his formative years in his country.
Even the sub french-algerian Karim Boudiaf did his formative years in France, not in Qatar.

Bar Umtiti(born in Cameroon), all french XI starters were born in France.
 
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