2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Imagine seeing the state of the US and coming to the conclusion of wanting Trump to win as a way to "stick it to the libs" as the way to go.

Why not say you want Trump to lose to stick it to the racists, or the sexists, or the homophobes, or the transphobes, or the conspiracy theorists, or the anti-science knobheads, or the gun waving mentalists, or the armed "militias" plotting to kidnap or kill Democrats, or the ones trying to rig the election, or the people trying to take away women's rights, or the many, many other types of people that make up the Republicans.

No, ignore all that, and decide you want Trump to win, and therefore supporting and boosting all the above, because the left aren't welcoming to those bigots or those that support the bigots.

And then claiming to be "neutral".

It's like those that stay completely silent every time a black person gets killed by a cop, but as soon as a brick goes through a window of an innocent shop they suddenly can't shut the feck up and have to tell everyone how bad that is and how that's the real problem.
 
I just took the 4th off work and bought a bottle of good bourbon. I figure I’m not sleeping on the third and I’m gonna be blitzed either way. We should start an election night support group/drinking game thread.
 
shamans said:
Others are saying this too it must be me that got the wrong impression. I really can't believe it though I thought biden was strong and coherent and actually got trump cornered and triggered.

But I see everyone saying trump did well so im not sure.
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He didn't do well at all. It was just slightly less of a shit show than the first debate which is the lowest of low bars.

This was probably Trump's last chance of clawing back the deficit showing in the polls and he did nothing that would appeal to undecided voters.
 
Cheimoon said:
I read an article that Republicans in Pennsylvania have been saying that they might have PA Congress decide on the electoral college if they feel the election in the state has been too fraudulent or if results stay unclear for too long. Apparently, they have a constitutional right to do so and it's possible because the Reps have the double majority. What do people on here think is the actual chance this will happen in PA or elsewhere?

Crazy, btw, that for a long time now Reps have been the main culprits of voter suppression and gerrymandering, and now they're also the ones accusing the Dems of election fraud. What do the Dems ever respond to all that? I don't see much of that - but maybe that's my news filter. (Complaining isn't as newsworthy.)
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Do you have a link to this
 
Cheimoon said:
Do you have the link?
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In Pennsylvania, three Republican leaders told me they had already discussed the direct appointment of electors among themselves, and one said he had discussed it with Trump’s national campaign.

“I’ve mentioned it to them, and I hope they’re thinking about it too,” Lawrence Tabas, the Pennsylvania Republican Party’s chairman, told me. “I just don’t think this is the right time for me to be discussing those strategies and approaches, but [direct appointment of electors] is one of the options. It is one of the available legal options set forth in the Constitution.” He added that everyone’s preference is to get a swift and accurate count. “If the process, though, is flawed, and has significant flaws, our public may lose faith and confidence” in the election’s integrity.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/
 
Cheimoon said:
Thanks. That's fascinating - and scary given the possible real-life implications. There's lots of stuff I deeply dislike about the Canadian democratic process, but at least it's all well documented and regulated. (As far as I know. Any trapdoors I'm forgetting, @Dwazza?) Nothing like this! I think @WI_Red might rather take the whole two months until January off...
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I’m doing a Costco run tomorrow and Wisconsin Costco’s sell 1.5 L bottles of single malt, so this is doable.
 
WI_Red said:
I’m doing a Costco run tomorrow and Wisconsin Costco’s sell 1.5 L bottles of single malt, so this is doable.
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Better book regular doctor's appointments in advance as well, or stomach pumping sessions.
 
Cheimoon said:
Thanks. That's fascinating - and scary given the possible real-life implications. There's lots of stuff I deeply dislike about the Canadian democratic process, but at least it's all well documented and regulated. (As far as I know. Any trapdoors I'm forgetting, @Dwazza?) Nothing like this! I think @WI_Red might rather take the whole two months until January off...
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I live in Australia, turnout is 90%+ due to compulsory voting , elections are on weekends and our Electoral Commission is generally really good. I have run party stations for my labor (democrat) local candidate twice. There are obvious weaknesses in our system, but imo, the american voting system, EC and popular vote, is absolute hot trash. Removing the EC is not even close to enough for the US, they've got to have full reform of the electoral system.

i genuinely have no idea how that country functions politically. It is the most overly convoluted system i've ever seen and there is always a chance that your vote can be disenfranchised based off a number of factors completely outside the realm of electoral commissions.

Our Election day is probably one of the most fun days (politically) for the country. I actually feel sorry for how bad Americans have it politically.
 
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WPMUFC said:
Our Election day is probably one of the most fun days (politically) for the country. I actually feel sorry for how bad Americans have it politically.
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Well it’s all fun and games until results are announced and the Murdoch brainwashed electorate return Liberals to power. Can’t wait until ScoMo is re-elected.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
I must say that now (as someone neutral in all this) i really want Trump's win. I mean, he is a clown and i would never want him as my president but hypocrisy of left wing in USA is amazing. They call themselves liberals, democrats, tolerant, modern etc.. but they "attack" people who support Trump like those people are public enemies. Classic double standard. "You can think and do what you want but only if it is like we think and do."
This week Chris Pratt is abused on social media just because he doesn't want to give support to Biden. Wtf? Isn't main idea of liberals to accept and respect free thinking and free will?
What a hypocrisy
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I mean, society should be looking down upon racism, sexism and all that trump represents, really. It's a testament to their openness and stupidity that he got elected in the 1st place.
 
WPMUFC said:
I live in Australia, turnout is 90%+ due to compulsory voting , elections are on weekends and our Electoral Commission is generally really good. I have run party stations for my labor (democrat) local candidate twice. There are obvious weaknesses in our system, but imo, the american voting system, EC and popular vote, is absolute hot trash. Removing the EC is not even close to enough for the US, they've got to have full reform of the electoral system.

i genuinely have no idea how that country functions politically. It is the most overly convoluted system i've ever seen and there is always a chance that you're vote can be disenfranchised based off a number of factors completely outside the realm of electoral commissions.

Our Election day is probably one of the most fun days (politically) for the country. I actually feel sorry for how bad Americans have it politically.
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Really like the idea of compulsory voting.
 
WPMUFC said:
I live in Australia, turnout is 90%+ due to compulsory voting , elections are on weekends and our Electoral Commission is generally really good. I have run party stations for my labor (democrat) local candidate twice. There are obvious weaknesses in our system, but imo, the american voting system, EC and popular vote, is absolute hot trash. Removing the EC is not even close to enough for the US, they've got to have full reform of the electoral system.

i genuinely have no idea how that country functions politically. It is the most overly convoluted system i've ever seen and there is always a chance that you're vote can be disenfranchised based off a number of factors completely outside the realm of electoral commissions.

Our Election day is probably one of the most fun days (politically) for the country. I actually feel sorry for how bad Americans have it politically.
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I might be mistaken, but I think a key issue is that a lot of it is enshrined in the constitution in the US. (Including the huge gaps in the process.) That makes it very hard to enact meaningful change. If we'd want to change the electoral system entirely here in Canada, it'd just take a law. Same in the Netherlands. It's much easier to keep electoral systems up to date and fix issues that way.

(Not that they are anyway near perfect; I particularly hate Canada's first-past-the-post system. But its issues are on a very different level.)
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Well it’s all fun and games until results are announced and the Murdoch brainwashed electorate return Liberals to power. Can’t wait until ScoMo is re-elected.
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don't want to take this off topic, but i'd rather fix an influence problem (as in murdoch basically conning rubes into voting scomo) compared to having the US electoral system AND fox news.
 
calodo2003 said:
Oh, christ, I could only imagine the backlash from the right wing loons here who would claim their freedoms were being trampled by something as ‘commie’ as making everyone have to vote.
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You aren't forced to vote but you do have to show up and have your name ticked off - you can then spoil your ballot or make no mark on it or probably just walk out.
 
Carolina Red said:
He said he would transition the oil industry, which, judging by all the Exxon commercials I see of them promoting themselves as an “energy” company and touting their research in renewable energy, is something that the oil industry is already doing anyway.
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Seems like he's getting the worst of both worlds here. Already pissed off the people who need the oil industry to live, while signalling to people on the left that he's not serious about the problem, and generally appears either confused or weak. Looks significant to me.

Within minutes of the debate, where he said he wanted to transition away from the oil industry, Biden walked back his remarks with reporters. On Friday, his running mate Kamala Harris reaffirmed the ticket’s support for fracking. And two members of Congress from oil- and gas-rich areas immediately distanced themselves from the Democratic nominee.

So with only 11 days to go until the election, Biden and other Democrats are doing clean-up duty at precisely the wrong time.

“We're not getting rid of fossil fuels,” Biden told reporters after the debate. “We're getting rid of the subsidies for fossil fuels, but we're not getting rid of fossil fuels for a long time.”
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https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/23/biden-oil-pennsylvania-texas-432043
 
WI_Red said:
I just took the 4th off work and bought a bottle of good bourbon. I figure I’m not sleeping on the third and I’m gonna be blitzed either way. We should start an election night support group/drinking game thread.
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Last elections I dozed off only to wake up to the news media unofficially declaring Trump the winner. It's been a never-ending nightmare.
 
Brwned said:
Seems like he's getting the worst of both worlds here. Already pissed off the people who need the oil industry to live, while signalling to people on the left that he's not serious about the problem, and generally appears either confused or weak. Looks significant to me.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/23/biden-oil-pennsylvania-texas-432043
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It’s the elephant in the room they are probably hoping desperately to avoid; it is a lose-lose situation in this election.
 
The Likely Outcome:

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Joe-Mentum

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The "Poll MoE favour Trump" Race

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Hence my belief, that a trump victory now solely relies on successful lawsuits.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
It’s the elephant in the room they are probably hoping desperately to avoid; it is a lose-lose situation in this election.
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Yeah, that's what was so striking about the debate moment, he embraced it so casually that even Trump had a double-take. And I do think his lack of mental agility at this age left him a bit flat-footed on that, he didn't seem to know how to follow-up on it.

On the wider issue, I thought this raised an interesting question.

“Americans have a different consciousness about climate change than they did 12 years ago,” he said.

And for the first time, climate change polled as a top issue for Democrats during the primaries, which Mr. Leiserowitz called “hugely consequential.”

He also said Mr. Trump’s outspoken denial of climate science has helped bring attention to the issue. “Having a climate denier in chief who is out there saying it’s a Chinese hoax, all of that helps sharpen the distinction between the positions of the two parties,” Mr. Leiserowitz said.

Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who was an economic policy adviser to Senator John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign against Mr. Obama, said areas of agreement make poor rallying points. That year, both candidates not only believed that climate change was real and serious but had similar proposals to address it.

“I thought this would be a moment when the nation learned a lot about greenhouse gas emissions,” Mr. Holtz-Eakin said. But other than a handful of news articles, it was largely ignored.

“Issues become important when they’re a point of differentiation among the candidates,” Mr. Holtz-Eakin said. “What I finally realized in retrospect was, there was no point in talking about it because it doesn’t help you pick.”

In the 2020 election, the difference between the candidates could not be more stark.

Mr. Trump has disparaged climate science and installed climate change deniers in prominent positions at both the White House and environmental agencies. He has sought to roll back every federal regulation aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions, moved to make it easier for aging coal plants to keep operating and promoted greater oil and gas production.

During Thursday’s debate, Mr. Trump claimed he has “so many different programs” to address climate change but offered no solutions beyond an executive order he signed to support a World Economic Forum tree-planting initiative. He attacked renewable energy and said, falsely, that retrofitting buildings to make them energy efficient would shrink windows to tiny portals.

Mr. Biden called climate change an “existential threat to humanity.”
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Is it possible that because Trump has actively worked against climate change policy, that he's caused more people to embrace it as a critical issue? Whereas if you had a moderate Democrat who signalled they would do something about climate policy, many of these people would have looked at it as an issue that's being taken care of. We know that extreme weather events, protests and general public discussion about the increasing urgency will have contributed to the growing importance of climate change as an issue for many, but it doesn't seem outside the realms of possibility that Trump's extreme position on the issue has played a significant role too.

So the question becomes, is it possible that a president who actively works against climate change policy in the short term can indirectly drive more climate change policy in the medium term, than a president who wants to do something about climate change but in the end makes incremental and insufficient progress due to prioritising across-the-aisle deals over conviction-led policies? The ticking time bomb nature of it adds another dimension to that too.
 
WI_Red said:
I just took the 4th off work and bought a bottle of good bourbon. I figure I’m not sleeping on the third and I’m gonna be blitzed either way. We should start an election night support group/drinking game thread.
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I've just started a new job so I reckon I'll have to give this one a miss. Probably the best for my head/liver anyway :D
 
Pexbo said:
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i imagine there's likely some kind of nuanced position on this that i'm missing. However, this has to be absolutely devastating for Trump right? It's no secret the youth vote is heavily democratic, but those numbers mean their choice was already locked in and in huge numbers.

Yeah, the pandemic skews it higher on the "same time" metric for obvious reasons, but i think the bigger point is that those voters are cast.
 
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WPMUFC said:
i imagine there's likely some kind of nuanced position on this that i'm missing. However, this has to be absolutely devastating for Trump right? It's no secret the youth vote is heavily democratic, but those numbers mean their choice was already locked in and in huge numbers.

Yeah, the pandemic skews it higher on the "same time" metric for obvious reasons, but i think the bigger point is that those voters are cast.
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Just checked the data and of the ~4.7m votes cast in Michigan, 21% were in the 18-29 age bracket. So around 987,000 total. So we are looking at 15% of that total cast already whereas last time it was around 0.8% at this point.
Like you say, difficult to infer anything from that though. We could end up bitterly disappointed if long queues and bad weather ultimately leads to worse turn out on the day.
 
Wibble said:
He didn't do well at all. It was just slightly less of a shit show than the first debate which is the lowest of low bars.

This was probably Trump's last chance of clawing back the deficit showing in the polls and he did nothing that would appeal to undecided voters.
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Are there any of these left, if so how much difference can they make? In the UK news reporting there have been lots of interviews with supporters of each candidate, but very few with people who are undecided. According to most news broadcast in the UK, its suddenly become 'all over bar the shouting'?

It seems that all Joe Biden (the nice guy) has to do is to manage not to fall over on his way to vote. An exaggeration of course, but it does seem like a very low standard is in play, for the most powerful nation on earth to be choosing a President.

Perhaps any foreign powers who it is believed attempted to pervert the voting last time may not even bother this time, 'heads we win, tails they lose'!!
 
Maticmaker said:
Are there any of these left, if so how much difference can they make? In the UK news reporting there have been lots of interviews with supporters of each candidate, but very few with people who are undecided. According to most news broadcast in the UK, its suddenly become 'all over bar the shouting'?

It seems that all Joe Biden (the nice guy) has to do is to manage not to fall over on his way to vote. An exaggeration of course, but it does seem like a very low standard is in play, for the most powerful nation on earth to be choosing a President.

Perhaps any foreign powers who it is believed attempted to pervert the voting last time may not even bother this time, 'heads we win, tails they lose'!!
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Well when the alternative is the worst US president in modern times, maybe ever I don't know enough about American history to say for sure, then yeah any other option looks better because it would be better.
 
Suv666 said:
Reckon more than half of Ariana and Taylor's demographics are not even voting age.
Celebrity endorsements hardly matter imo. Cardi B and Ariana Grande championed Sanders cause too.
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Yes, that's the opinion of the polls too. Direct engagement is different from endorsement though, and there's no denying that Ariana helped crash the Florida registrations site. Even a 50-100k addition in Florida is huge. (And it was apparently FAR more than that, to the point the secretary of state had to extend voting registration by a day)

Maticmaker said:
It seems that all Joe Biden (the nice guy) has to do is to manage not to fall over on his way to vote. An exaggeration of course, but it does seem like a very low standard is in play, for the most powerful nation on earth to be choosing a President.
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Yep, he got lucky. Perfect storm for him. If it was Mitt Romney, Al Gore, or whoever, they'd be in the same position. Broken down it's pretty much a referendum on Trump, nothing more.
 
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