2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Raoul said:
In Warren's case, she is polling fourth so it would make sense for her to see things out until Super Tuesday. If someone is polling at below 5%, then yes, the difference between bowing out now and 11 days from now would be negligible.
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My dude, you are so close. In spite of the millions of donations and volunteers, she is still polling at 4th place. She won one freakin county in Iowa. The whitest of states where someone like her should be thriving. Which tells you all you need to know about her electability and how much of her hype was media created and white liberals behaving exactly like you'd expect them to. For her to hang on even longer, it only means that she wants to stay in the race just to malign sanders all the way till ST and hope for some powerplay that works in her favor. It is actually more telling of her supporters and how disposable their value system is and what they actually stand for.
 
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Florida Man said:
I didn't even know that. Makes sense. Weird for Mormons to be for Republicans since their model is to help their church members financially as much as possible if I remember correctly
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Well, Utah recently decriminalized polygamy driven by Republicans. Who says Dems only decriminalize marijuana for the votes? They should have done it all states to win this bitch
 
Revan said:
I am not saying that he cannot be a two-term president. I am saying that he won't be a two-term president, while Democrats to hold both the Senate and the House during the second term.

Simply, because the last time this happened was during Truman. Since then, there has not been a unified government during the second term of a president (but quite often there has been during the first term). Which is why I think that the best chance for radical changes would be during his first term, not during his second.
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Who holds the house and senate is not really that relevant if the bloke in charge is considerably to the left of all of them. Sanders winning the presidency is only the first part of the plan. The movement only succeeds if it can force politicians to vote for his ideas or they'll be voted out.

You're right to see it as a long shot. It's also the only chance this particular planet has.
 
Revan said:
I am not saying that he cannot be a two-term president. I am saying that he won't be a two-term president, while Democrats to hold both the Senate and the House during the second term.

Simply, because the last time this happened was during Truman's presidency. Since then, there has not been a unified government during the second term of a president (but quite often there has been during the first term). Which is why I think that the best chance for radical changes would be during his first term, not during his second.
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Ah ok, I misread. I think that depends on how much Justice Democrats take seats in Congress. 2018 has already shown us a trend towards Blue so we'll have to see. Like Trump, Bernie would also be an unorthodox President so in these times, it's really difficult to predict how it turns out. And I say this because we're in new times.
 
entropy said:
My dude, you are so close. In spite of the millions of donations and volunteers, she is still polling at 4th place. She won one freakin county in Iowa. The whitest of states where someone like her should be thriving. Which tells you all you need to know about her electability and how much of her hype was media created and white liberals behaving exactly like you'd expect them to. For her to hang on even longer, it only means that she wants to stay in the race just to malign sanders all the way till ST and hope for some powerplay that works in her favor.
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I'm sorry but this 'only to malign Sanders' bullshit needs to be fecked off for good. You win your states my good sir and you don't have to bitch about others, and Papa bernie is doing just fine. I just don't understand why white people like Red Dreams malign Warren now. IF she isn't a threat, keep her on your side and get her endorsement for feck sake
 
Florida Man said:
Ah ok, I misread. I think that depends on how much Justice Democrats take seats in Congress. 2018 has already shown us a trend towards Blue so we'll have to see. Like Trump, Bernie would also be an unorthodox President so in these times, it's really difficult to predict how it turns out. And I say this because we're in new times.
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There's just no reason why we shouldn't we optimistic about Bernie SAnders instead of moaning about what he could do. Republicans do that with Trump and he's a serial sex offender for feck sake
 
fishfingers15 said:
I'm sorry but this 'only to malign Sanders' bullshit needs to be fecked off for good. You win your states my good sir and you don't have to bitch about others, and Papa bernie is doing just fine. I just don't understand why white people like Red Dreams malign Warren now. IF she isn't a threat, keep her on your side and get her endorsement for feck sake
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I sort of agree but we are entitled to call out her hypocrisy. Gotta keep em honest.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Who holds the house and senate is not really that relevant if the bloke in charge is considerably to the left of all of them. Sanders winning the presidency is only the first part of the plan. The movement only succeeds if it can force politicians to vote for his ideas or they'll be voted out.

You're right to see it as a long shot. It's also the only chance this particular planet has.
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Florida Man said:
Ah ok, I misread. I think that depends on how much Justice Democrats take seats in Congress. 2018 has already shown us a trend towards Blue so we'll have to see. Like Trump, Bernie would also be an unorthodox President so in these times, it's really difficult to predict how it turns out. And I say this because we're in new times.
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I don't think it matters at att what senators/representatives Democrats choose. I think it is close to impossible that the government will have a Democrat president in his second term, a democratic controlled senate and a democratic controlled House. If Sanders gets a second term, GOP will get at least one of the chambers. It has been like this since Nixon, so I don't see why this time it will be different.


@DiseaseOfTheAge, I don't believe ina Messiah figure and the only chance the planet has etc. I hope he wins (now that Liz is not doing well and Yang is out), but at the end of the day, he is another career politician millionaire who will have limited power. People who are expecting drastic changes are gonna get disappointed.
 
Revan said:
I don't think it matters at att what senators/representatives Democrats choose. I think it is close to impossible that the government will have a Democrat president in his second term, a democratic controlled senate and a democratic controlled House. If Sanders gets a second term, GOP will get at least one of the chambers. It has been like this since Nixon, so I don't see why this time it will be different.


@DiseaseOfTheAge, I don't believe ina Messiah figure and the only chance the planet has etc. I hope he wins (now that Liz is not doing well and Yang is out), but at the end of the day, he is another career politician millionaire who will have limited power. People who are expecting drastic changes are gonna get disappointed.
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You're basing it off of the typical centrist Democrat who are spineless, not progressives. You can't compare someone like Bill Clinton and Obama to Bernie Sanders as they're virtually worlds apart.

Drastic changes have occurred many times in US history. Who's to say it doesn't happen again? I think you're underestimating the impact of the youth in all this.
 
Florida Man said:
You're basing it off of the typical centrist Democrat who are spineless, not progressives. You can't compare someone like Bill Clinton and Obama to Bernie Sanders as they're virtually worlds apart.
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I think he is much better than them, but at the end, he won't be able to make radical changes. Those happen only in a revolution, and despite him calling this a revolution, it is not.

If Mitch controls the senate, he will be a president of executive orders. Good luck financing Medicare for all and co in that scenario.

He is not Messiah, because Messiah does not exist. Him being to the left of virtually everyone in the Senate (and the vast majority on the House) will make extremely hard for him to govern, let alone make extreme changes.
 
Revan said:
I think he is much better than them, but at the end, he won't be able to make radical changes. Those happen only in a revolution, and despite him calling this a revolution, it is not.

If Mitch controls the senate, he will be a president of executive orders. Good luck financing Medicare for all and co in that scenario.

He is not Messiah, because Messiah does not exist. Him being to the left of virtually everyone in the Senate (and the vast majority on the House) will make extremely hard for him to govern, let alone make extreme changes.
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Elaborate on what you mean as revolution. His platform is definitely revolutionary the way I see it. It doesn't have to involve some extreme measures where it becomes violent, which is how revolutions are often perceived.

I think their plan of primary-ing every opponent who is a roadblock to M4A has some merit. I think you underestimate his supporters. If you're thinking about this as Bernie coming in to solve everything himself, then you are misinterpreting his campaign. But we'll have to see.

Other than arguably RD, no one is perceiving him as a Messiah. His slogan is literally, "Not Me, Us". Any rational supporter understands that meaning.
 
Revan said:
@DiseaseOfTheAge, I don't believe ina Messiah figure and the only chance the planet has etc. I hope he wins (now that Liz is not doing well and Yang is out), but at the end of the day, he is another career politician millionaire who will have limited power. People who are expecting drastic changes are gonna get disappointed.
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That's fair but unless you have an alternative plan to save the planet then your concerns about our tendency to see Sanders as our Lord and Saviour are not really relevant.
 
There's no moderate way to save the world from climate change. The only way is with bold action. Banning straws and merely reducing some oil use ain't gonna cut it. So either you're with it or you feck it.
 
I love Joe Biden but he would lose the election because the Trump machine will make it all about Joe and Hunter and Ukraine. The waters have already been muddied with Trump escaping impeachment, he will proclaim he is completely innocent and will turn the idiot electorates attention to the Bidens and they will fall for it.
 
Ramshock said:
I love Joe Biden but he would lose the election because the Trump machine will make it all about Joe and Hunter and Ukraine. The waters have already been muddied with Trump escaping impeachment, he will proclaim he is completely innocent and will turn the idiot electorates attention to the Bidens and they will fall for it.
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You may see Biden in a Sanders administration as Sec. of State if it is a brokered convention and his delegates were needed.
 
Florida Man said:
Elaborate on what you mean as revolution. His platform is definitely revolutionary the way I see it. It doesn't have to involve some extreme measures where it becomes violent, which is how revolutions are often perceived.
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Something that is not achieved by political means and is not bounded by democratic rules.

Florida Man said:
I think their plan of primary-ing every opponent who is a roadblock to M4A has some merit. I think you underestimate his supporters. If you're thinking about this as Bernie coming in to solve everything himself, then you are misinterpreting his campaign. But we'll have to see.
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It is actually you who are overestimating his supporters. At the end of the day, he is polling in mid-twenties in Democratic primaries. Around 1/3 of people who vote identify themselves as Democrats. So, he has support from around 1/12 of voters.

The second point, primary-ing sounds like a great idea, until you actually think about it for around half a second. Let's say Joe Manchin doesn't support M4A. Bernie primaries him. The most likely result is that Manchin easily wins the primary. The second most likely result is that GOP walks the race against some other Democratic nominee who wins the primary. Or you know, Manchin loses the primary and joins GOP. Does anyone think that a left-wing Democrat can win in a -40 state?

Primary-ing Dems who don't think that Bernie is the Messiah sounds like a wonderful idea to give the Senate and the House to GOP, limit his ability to efficiently govern and essentially make the 2024 elections very easy for GOP.

Florida Man said:
Other than arguably RD, no one is perceiving him as a Messiah. His slogan is literally, "Not Me, Us". Any rational supporter understands that meaning.
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Yes. He is a populist career politician, of course the slogan is not gonna say 'Me'. Trump's slogan was 'Make America Great Again' not 'Make Trump Great'. Point is, slogans don't matter (too much). And while I believe that Bernie has good intentions and would definitely want to see a Bernie presidency, I don't expect miracles. It is gonna be somewhere between 'him having his hands tied' and 'incremental improvement'. After 4 years of Bernie presidency, there won't be Medicare For All, there will still be college debts, and global warming will still be a serious problem. It is real life, not a fantasy story when the good guy wins and everything becomes good forever.
 
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DiseaseOfTheAge said:
That's fair but unless you have an alternative plan to save the planet then your concerns about our tendency to see Sanders as our Lord and Saviour are not really relevant.
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Bernie does not have a plan (that can work) for global warming too. No one has, we are all screwed.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
So you're opposition here is that you're blackpilled and we all should be?
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Not really, but I also think that having some dose of realism helps. A lot of Bernie bros seem to have lost any sense of realism.
I can have a discussion in good faith about GW (there is also a thread about it), but the short story is that no president won't be able to solve the issue in this political climate. You need to have the Senate and the House with you, and even then, it is only the US. China, for example, emits 1/3 of total emitted carbon, what can Bernie do about it?

If the issue will be solved, it will be solved if we reach the point (soon) on producing clean energy (I also count nuclear energy there) that costs less than fossil energy.
 
Florida Man said:
There's no moderate way to save the world from climate change. The only way is with bold action. Banning straws and merely reducing some oil use ain't gonna cut it. So either you're with it or you feck it.
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And you certainly can't change it with self-proclaimed capitalists at the helm. That is just a sick joke.
 
Raoul said:
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@Ramshock

To elaborate.

The Rust Belt as I predicted the last time was the path to victory for Trump.
If the Democrats are to win, they must win the Rust Belt. Certainly not lose MI, PA and WI.

There are only two genuine candidates. Sanders and Biden.

Bloomberg is a Republican in all but name. And he is a racist and sexual predator.
Warren has no original thought and has rightly earned the Snake moniker. Completely untrustworthy person.
Klobachar was always running for the VP spot. She is a no mark senator and has totally lost many votes with her performance.
Pete will eat any shit that comes his way. He was pushed by the DNC, even illegally in Iowa, to stop Sanders momentum in the first two states.

Biden's message of 'beating Trump' is so weak and is a repeat of Hillary, except he is a lot weaker candidate.
But he was Obama's VP and the last representative of a dying breed. The Blue Collar politician. But identity politics is fading.

Giving Biden a senior cabinet position will be a unifying gesture. He has experience and whatever he does will be tightly controlled by Sanders.

If Sanders does not win the first ballot, I am certain Obama will broker a deal similar to what I said.
 
Revan said:
Not really, but I also think that having some dose of realism helps. A lot of Bernie bros seem to have lost any sense of realism.
I can have a discussion in good faith about GW (there is also a thread about it), but the short story is that no president won't be able to solve the issue in this political climate. You need to have the Senate and the House with you, and even then, it is only the US. China, for example, emits 1/3 of total emitted carbon, what can Bernie do about it?

If the issue will be solved, it will be solved if we reach the point (soon) on producing clean energy (I also count nuclear energy there) that costs less than fossil energy.
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Gotcha. You're hoping for a magic wand to save us.
 
It's the year two thousand man, you can't expect the Messiah to still travel on sandals. He's driving that magic electric car and streaming sermons through Prime.
 
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