2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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The thought that America is a democracy is bullshit. If it was then Bernie would be the runner against Trump and people would have a choice.
As it is, there's the pick between a known criminal liar that is rooted firmly in the pockets of big Corp and a complete imbecile.
Neither of which are going to be any different to each other once in office.
My opinion is, at least if it's trump it'll be funny.

So Democracy is only possible if your preferred candidate wins ? Interesting.
 
The thought that America is a democracy is bullshit. If it was then Bernie would be the runner against Trump and people would have a choice.
As it is, there's the pick between a known criminal liar that is rooted firmly in the pockets of big Corp and a complete imbecile.
Neither of which are going to be any different to each other once in office.
My opinion is, at least if it's trump it'll be funny.
Yeah, it'll be especially funny when someone makes fun of him twitter and the secret service throws them in a turbine. He's not just an imbecile, he's a racist, sexist, mentally disabled, volatile imbecile.
 
My opinion is, at least if it's trump it'll be funny.
I fear it won't be funny for long. The worst thing about him isn't even that he's
a racist, sexist, mentally disabled, volatile imbecile.
It's that he's a pure populist. IF he wins he faces a country of which ~51% expect completely unrealistic things of him, and ~49% who despise him. What do populist do when they can't deliver? They double down. He'll blame some group... Whether that'll be another country, a minority or those working for him (doubt it, but possible) won't matter, it'll get ugly quickly.
 
I fear it won't be funny for long. The worst thing about him isn't even that he's

It's that he's a pure populist. IF he wins he faces a country of which ~51% expect completely unrealistic things of him, and ~49% who despise him. What do populist do when they can't deliver? They double down. He'll blame some group... Whether that'll be another country, a minority or those working for him (doubt it, but possible) won't matter, it'll get ugly quickly.

He´ll also face a country where 99% of all MPs and the majority of civil/military servants are against him.
 
:lol:

@Americano Genuinely curious, waht does America first mean to you?

I can sum it up very plainly in one sentence: government that exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Hillary Clinton and people of her ilk are parasites upon the American people, selling our freedom to fatten their bank accounts and accumulate power.

More specifically, to me personally it means solving our own problems...

1. Government resources allocated to American citizens, not illegal aliens or migrants
2. Improve/eliminate trade deficit
3. Revive manufacturing and small businesses
4. Rebuild infrastructure
5. Energy independence/green energy (could be tied in to points 4 & 5)
6. Strong military and improved foreign policy, the threat of force needs to be back on the table
7. Racial & ethnic unity through prosperity and excellence (jobs, education, commerce)
8. Reduce national debt, attempt to run the government as a lean & effective business
9. Restore law and order, let the police and ICE enforce the laws to secure our cities and our borders
 
I can sum it up very plainly in one sentence: government that exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Hillary Clinton and people of her ilk are parasites upon the American people, selling our freedom to fatten their bank accounts and accumulate power.

More specifically, to me personally it means solving our own problems...

1. Government resources allocated to American citizens, not illegal aliens or migrants
2. Improve/eliminate trade deficit
3. Revive manufacturing and small businesses
4. Rebuild infrastructure
5. Energy independence/green energy (could be tied in to points 4 & 5)
6. Strong military and improved foreign policy, the threat of force needs to be back on the table
7. Racial & ethnic unity through prosperity and excellence (jobs, education, commerce)
8. Reduce national debt, attempt to run the government as a lean & effective business
9. Restore law and order, let the police and ICE enforce the laws to secure our cities and our borders

So you believe in govt. creating jobs, not the private sector? Are you claiming that it's govt. that's driven away manufacturing?
 
So you believe in govt. creating jobs, not the private sector? Are you claiming that it's govt. that's driven away manufacturing?

Big corporations and banks own the government > government do as the higher powers order them to do > Small business are fecked.

who signed all this free trade agreements? the private sector?

NOP! the government (by orders of the private sector titans)
 
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I can sum it up very plainly in one sentence: government that exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Hillary Clinton and people of her ilk are parasites upon the American people, selling our freedom to fatten their bank accounts and accumulate power.

What you're supporting is a government that serves a small fraction of the people and leaves the vast remaining majority hanging. A government that serves all the people would support broader access to health care (ie Obamacare), tuition free education (as championed by Sanders and now adopted by Hillary)
 
It´s funny you´d think someone like Trump would be the one to solving these problems. For one thing, Trump has always been into serving himself.

I can sum it up very plainly in one sentence: government that exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Hillary Clinton and people of her ilk are parasites upon the American people, selling our freedom to fatten their bank accounts and accumulate power.

More specifically, to me personally it means solving our own problems...

1. Government resources allocated to American citizens, not illegal aliens or migrants Trump has a well documented record of hiring Polish and Latino illegals in his constructions and casino and Mar-A-lago, and many migrant workers for his varied businesses. He is part of the problem, no solution.
2. Improve/eliminate trade deficit.
3. Revive manufacturing and small businesses. Much of the bullshit Trump "brand" has been outsourced or produced overseas. Again, he is part of the problem.
4. Rebuild infrastructure. Let´s see how well he does when he has to do this without the mob ties and cheap labor from foreigners, illegal or not
5. Energy independence/green energy (could be tied in to points 4 & 5) He is totally anti green energy and believes climate science is a hoax. Again, part of the problem.
6. Strong military and improved foreign policy, the threat of force needs to be back on the table. Many generals have broken rank and are supporting Clinton. Does´t seem like the military much likes Trump, and he has absolutely zero experience in anything military, except avoiding service, shitting on McCain´s military record and saying his personal Vietnam was fecking everything in sight without getting the clap.
7. Racial & ethnic unity through prosperity and excellence (jobs, education, commerce). Yeah, right, Trump will bring racial unity. He and his father have been sued for housing discrimination against minorities and his rhetoric and absolute support of the police and tough justice, same ol same ol will not fly with minorities. Have you seen his support with African Americans and Latinos?
8. Reduce national debt, attempt to run the government as a lean & effective business. How is he going to do this if you want stronger military and force brought back into the equation, plus you want prosperity through education and infrastructure rebuilt. Plus Trump has promised to lower taxes.
9. Restore law and order, let the police and ICE enforce the laws to secure our cities and our borders. Under Obama, our borders have been more secure than ever, and Mexican immigration and negative. Violent crime has also gone down. What law and order needs to be "restored."/QUOTE]
 
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So you believe in govt. creating jobs, not the private sector? Are you claiming that it's govt. that's driven away manufacturing?

Government regulations (EPA & OSHA for example) and taxes are just two things the government controls that affect the climate for starting businesses and manufacturing. Those can be tweaked favorably to encourage new businesses and new manufacturing.

The government doesn't create the jobs, it removes/modifies existing barriers to entry.
 
Government regulations (EPA & OSHA for example) and taxes are just two things the government controls that affect the climate for starting businesses and manufacturing. Those can be tweaked favorably to encourage new businesses and new manufacturing.

The government doesn't create the jobs, it removes/modifies existing barriers to entry.

Who do you think would facilitate number 4 on your above list - rebuilding infrastructure ?
 
Government regulations (EPA & OSHA for example) and taxes are just two things the government controls that affect the climate for starting businesses and manufacturing. Those can be tweaked favorably to encourage new businesses and new manufacturing.

The government doesn't create the jobs, it removes/modifies existing barriers to entry.

And what about the deregulation of banking, wall street practices and the private sector to, not only outsource jobs on a mass scale, keep wages and prosperity for the middle class low, income inequality on a never before seen scale, and in 2008, job loss on a seldom seen scale. It is also poisoning our country and population. This is a two edged sword, and one has to stop parroting this right wing deregulation philosophy as this miraculous cure.
 
Are you claiming that it's govt. that's driven away manufacturing?

Arguably, yes. There's only one reason why the west (Canada, Europe and the US) avoided environmental catastrophe in the 1990s and that is because we sent the vast majority of our manufacturing to other countries and initiated free trade agreements so those products could return to the markets they were destined to be consumed in with minimal penalty.

Throw in the lower wages for workers and business was more than happy to go along with this. All in all, it's been great for us, as long as one hadn't relied on a factory job.
 
And what about the deregulation of banking, wall street practices and the private sector to, not only outsource jobs on a mass scale, keep wages and prosperity for the middle class low, income inequality on a never before seen scale, and in 2008, job loss on a seldom seen scale. It is also poisoning our country and population. This is a two edged sword, and one has to stop parroting this right wing deregulation philosophy as this miraculous cure.

That's not a concern of the trickle down model that Americano is promoting. It's little more than a way for people who already have money to consolidate what they have and in the process widen the gap between the top two percent of earners and the lower 98%.
 
@Nobby style

The question asked of me was "what does 'America First' mean to you?". I said what it means to me. I doubt any leader could make all of that happen in one or two terms in office, or that any leader is in complete alignment to my view of what America First means.

Our federal government is too large, too involved in our lives, too ineffective, and too corrupt. It is a parasite that exists to increase its power and survival, to the detriment of the people it purports to serve.
 
I can sum it up very plainly in one sentence: government that exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Hillary Clinton and people of her ilk are parasites upon the American people, selling our freedom to fatten their bank accounts and accumulate power.

More specifically, to me personally it means solving our own problems...

1. Government resources allocated to American citizens, not illegal aliens or migrants
2. Improve/eliminate trade deficit. There's a trade deficit because there's more than a 40% gap in the savings rate of US vs. China. Get people to stop buying so much stuff and you'll have less of a deficit (you'll get a recession as bonus).
3. Revive manufacturing and small businesses. Contradictory, manufacturing is generally big business due to benefits of scale and high capital requirements.
4. Rebuild infrastructure
5. Energy independence/green energy (could be tied in to points 4 & 5)
6. Strong military and improved foreign policy, the threat of force needs to be back on the table. 10 aircraft carriers, 14 ballistic missile submarines, 20 stealth bombers, 139 non-stealth bombers, 1000+ fighter aircraft, 32 Army combat brigades with prepositioned equipment around the globe (i.e. there are more tanks than tank crews), and I could go on. The threat of force isn't on the table? You keep paying for all of that just to have a cool military movie every couple of years?

Plus, the lesson since Vietnam (and ignored in 2003) is that the indigenous crazies are way too committed to give in, even in the face of overwhelming force. You end up with your super military engaged in hopeless struggles (because there are no desirable political outcomes to strive for), which dull its ability to actually engage in the type of conflict its designed for (conflicts vs. nation-states that might actually pose an existential threat.)

The contradiction between Trump's brand of isolationism and a strong military is also curious. The US military is the size that it is because its strategic objective is to be able to fight two large conventional conflicts at once, in different ends of the globe, and win both (i.e. fight in Eastern Europe & Korea at the same time). If you're not going to support your allies anymore, and the new strategic objective were to be "protect the Continental US", you only need a fraction of current force because there are two immense oceans to each side of the country.

7. Racial & ethnic unity through prosperity and excellence (jobs, education, commerce)
8. Reduce national debt, attempt to run the government as a lean & effective business. Many businesses fail to run lean & effective. When someone figures out how to run the government like one, let me know.
9. Restore law and order, let the police and ICE enforce the laws to secure our cities and our borders
 
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The funniest bit is number 6 - "the threat of force needs to be on the table".

Against who precisely ?
 
Current US establishment started the whole Arab Spring fiasco which resulted in IS. I have no postive feelings towards american establishment.

Arab Spring was started because of Wikileaks and existing bad conditions on the ground in the ME.
 
Current US establishment started the whole Arab Spring fiasco which resulted in IS. I have no postive feelings towards american establishment.

Obama´s admin?

No destabilisation during Bush´s ill advised Iraq war? No worst middle eastern drought in 900 years? No Saudi exported Wahhabism? No wikileaks? Glad you got it all pinned on the current Obama admin? That was quick and easy.
 
Current US establishment started the whole Arab Spring fiasco which resulted in IS. I have no postive feelings towards american establishment.

So the answer is the more hawkish, more racist, more right wing alternative?

That makes absolutely no sense. It's a rebellious teenage pot-smokers attitude to complex governance.
 
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I can sum it up very plainly in one sentence: government that exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Hillary Clinton and people of her ilk are parasites upon the American people, selling our freedom to fatten their bank accounts and accumulate power.

More specifically, to me personally it means solving our own problems...

1. Government resources allocated to American citizens, not illegal aliens or migrants
2. Improve/eliminate trade deficit
3. Revive manufacturing and small businesses
4. Rebuild infrastructure
5. Energy independence/green energy (could be tied in to points 4 & 5)
6. Strong military and improved foreign policy, the threat of force needs to be back on the table
7. Racial & ethnic unity through prosperity and excellence (jobs, education, commerce)
8. Reduce national debt, attempt to run the government as a lean & effective business
9. Restore law and order, let the police and ICE enforce the laws to secure our cities and our borders

Threat of force needs to be back on the table :wenger: Iraq, Afghan, Syria come to mind. How many current examples do we need to show we mean business? 5 wars should do it? Any idea who to go to war with next?
Reduce debt and making the military stronger don't go together.
Rebuild infrastructure. Trump wants to do that? Sounds pretty much like big liberal government to me.
Energy independence: Same old BS statement every single cycle. People lap it up and it never goes anywhere.
Green energy: From a candidate who said global climate change is a hoax?
Unity and trump is an oxymoron. Divide and conquer may be a better term.
Revive manufacturing: I wonder which sectors? Will Trump start buying/using American?
 
I dont want to sound like a conspiracy nut.. but would anyone else in Clinton's position gotten away that easily with the whole Email nonsense?

The alternative would be Trump being handed the presidency and that cant be a good thing... I'm not really complaining... but it just feels a little dodgy.
 
So the answer is the more hawkish, more racist, more right with alternative?

That makes absolutely no sense. It's a rebellious teenage pot-smokers attitude to complex governance.

In fairness, if we are to take Trump's foreign policy speeches seriously, he comes off less hawkish than Hillary in many ways.

There's just not much reason to take anything he's said so far seriously.
 
I dont want to sound like a conspiracy nut.. but would anyone else in Clinton's position gotten away that easily with the whole Email nonsense?

The alternative would be Trump being handed the presidency and that cant be a good thing... I'm not really complaining... but it just feels a little dodgy.

Orrrr . . . would anyone besides a Clinton be hounded obsessively for years by this Benghazi or Email nonsense?
 
Orrrr . . . would anyone besides a Clinton be hounded obsessively for years by this Benghazi or Email nonsense?
Oh I'm sure any presidential candidate would.. Benghazi might be nonsense.. the email thing certainly is not. At least form what I understand.. It's been blown up into something bigger than it is.. but its not nothing.
 
Oh I'm sure any presidential candidate would.. Benghazi might be nonsense.. the email thing certainly is not. At least form what I understand.. It's been blown up into something bigger than it is.. but its not nothing.

Exactly. I mean, Donald has undeniable mob ties (plus about 10 other things as bad), yet if there´s any specific outcry, it doesn´t last for very long. Like Benghazi, this email grayness just goes on and on and onnnnnn
 
Hmmmmmmm Dwazza replying to questions asked to Americano. I smell a massive wum here. :lol:

Americano claiming to be all about America and the people first yet supporting Trump has to be one of the funniest things he has written. Surely nobody can believe Trump is for anyone but himself. The evidence is all there to the contrary.

The funniest bit is number 6 - "the threat of force needs to be on the table".

Against who precisely ?

Ze Germans Tommy!

And Iran of course. It's always Iran.
 
Hmmmmmmm Dwazza replying to questions asked to Americano. I smell a massive wum here. :lol:

Americano claiming to be all about America and the people first yet supporting Trump has to be one of the funniest things he has written. Surely nobody can believe Trump is for anyone but himself. The evidence is all there to the contrary.



Ze Germans Tommy!

And Iran of course. It's always Iran.

:lol: just a pet theory of mine, is all. I like to put it out there when I can.
 
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Government regulations (EPA & OSHA for example) and taxes are just two things the government controls that affect the climate for starting businesses and manufacturing. Those can be tweaked favorably to encourage new businesses and new manufacturing.

The government doesn't create the jobs, it removes/modifies existing barriers to entry.


Which specific EPA/OSHA regulations do you believe need to be tweaked?
 
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