2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

[Grinner]

The Communist parties are very much part of Indian parliamentary democracy. They are in power in 2 states and till a decade ago controlled about 10% of the seats in parliament. The tiniest one has a leader whom I follow on facebook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavita_Krishnan



I think the obvious size and enthusiasm in Bernie's crowds is because of the profile of his supporters - young and passionate - coupled with the fact that he holds his rallies on campuses. It's tougher to get the same response at a senior centre (or indeed hold a rally there) but they vote more regularly.

Young kids are also generally doing feck-all else during the day.

 

[Raoul]

This email thing just won't go away.

Can Obama just run again.

She's toast. Trump will skewer her with this for months and it will wind up being a bit of a self licking ice cream cone, since the government will continue to release more updates throughout the election season.

 

[berbatrick]

Young kids are also generally doing feck-all else during the day.

How dare you, I'm spending my time productively... *logs off redcafe*

 

[ravi2]

She's toast. Trump will skewer her with this for months and it will wind up being a bit of a self licking ice cream cone, since the government will continue to release more updates throughout the election season.

You think Hillary is toast?
I dont like her, but I cant see Trump beating her in a national election.

 

[Raoul]

You think Hillary is toast?
I dont like her, but I cant see Trump beating her in a national election.

She is not doing so well in the polls. She was trouncing him in most polls a month or two ago and he has more or less caught up with her - and now this.

This definitely gives Bernie more reason to continue challenging her as well.

 

[berbatrick]

The whole article is damning but it they even ripped apart her weak defence

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

So, to me the emails thing suggests an "I am above ze law" mentality. To attack Hildawg on this front opens up many other fronts if we view other things she's done through a similar lens. Not to mention the what ifs should she become president.

 

[berbatrick]

Other highlights:

The report concludes that Clinton’s use of a personal email account was “not an appropriate method.”

In June 2011, there were two hacking attempts on the Clinton email system in one day. There were warnings issued to senior State Department officials that hackers were targeting personal email accounts.

Some of the aides used their personal email accounts extensively for official business.

The package of emails turned over by Clinton was “incomplete.”

Another staff member who raised issues was told that their mission was “to support the Secretary, and instructed the staff never to speak of the Secretary’s personal email system again.”

 

[ravi2]

Other highlights:

At the end of the day, do you feel this will really considerably slow her down?
I get the impression she can buy her way out of just about anything.

 

[Grinner]

Oh emails, yeah that's a massive scandal alright.

Conspiracy to use an old hotmail account or something...

 

[Raoul]

Other highlights:

She apparently declined to be interviewed as well.

 

[PedroMendez]

Oh emails, yeah that's a massive scandal alright.

Conspiracy to use an old hotmail account or something...

it should be a massive scandal. She is incredibly lucky, that the republicans are idiots and the public accepts the "convenience" explanation.

 

[berbatrick]

At the end of the day, do you feel this will really considerably slow her down?
I get the impression she can buy her way out of just about anything.

This is by a Democrat administration, so I'm assuming there's some fire under the huge volume of smoke.

Edit: The FBI hasn't spoken yet. If they do it and are equally negative, I expect her to step down. I'm not sure the reputation of the Democratic party will be better than the sub-zero Republican ratings if that happens. It would also probably make this the single strangest US election ever.


Edit 2:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/bernie-sanders-no-use-clinton-email-report-223563

Even though the State Department inspector general concluded that Hillary Clinton violated the agency's records policies, Bernie Sanders' campaign is showing no signs that it will seize upon the latest revelations in her email scandal.

 

[berbatrick]

New NC poll:

If the candidates for President this fall were just Democrat Hillary Clinton and Republican Donald Trump, who would you vote for?
Hillary Clinton 43% Donald Trump 47% Not sure 9%

Q12 If the candidates for President next time were just Democrat Bernie Sanders and Republican Donald Trump, who would you vote for?
Bernie Sanders 48% Donald Trump 44% Not sure 8%

Q13 (Among Democrats) Would you be comfortable with Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee for President, or not?
Yes 79% No 16%
Q14 (Among Democrats) Would you be comfortable with Bernie Sanders as the Democratic nominee for President, or not?
Yes 51% No 38% Not sure 11%

What does this mean? I guess independents again...it's a risky GE strategy, low floor, huge ceiling.

Q18 In the last presidential election, did you vote for Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?
Barack Obama 46% Mitt Romney 46% Someone else / Don't remember 7%

Also means the poll is biased towards Dems since this is a state Romney won but they have sampled equally.

 

[Grinner]

it should be a massive scandal. She is incredibly lucky, that the republicans are idiots and the public accepts the "convenience" explanation.

Why should it be a massive scandal?

 

[unchanged_lineup]

it should be a massive scandal. She is incredibly lucky, that the republicans are idiots and the public accepts the "convenience" explanation.

Apologies if someone has asked already, but what was the benefit to her of doing this? Was it that she could delete evidence if she ever made a massive feckup? Or is there other motivation for doing it?

 

[Silva]

Apologies if someone has asked already, but what was the benefit to her of doing this? Was it that she could delete evidence if she ever made a massive feckup? Or is there other motivation for doing it?

Can avoid freedom of information requests I believe.

 

[berbatrick]

Why should it be a massive scandal?

The server was easier to hack (it did happen).
Her classified emails as SoS were supposed to be available to the government, which did not happen, she supplied them, but the list was not complete.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Can avoid freedom of information requests I believe.

Hmm ok, that if true could be seen as very valuable. Thinking legacy terms too, it often takes quite a while to get a request through. Perhaps she was thinking long term even, avoiding future impeachment.

 

[Grinner]

The server was easier to hack (it did happen).
Her classified emails as SoS were supposed to be available to the government, which did not happen, she supplied them, but the list was not complete.

That's it?

 

[berbatrick]

That's it?

Hacking of classified information is a pretty big deal IMO. It's the entire reason intelligence services exist.

 

[PedroMendez]

Why should it be a massive scandal?

Apologies if someone has asked already, but what was the benefit to her of doing this? Was it that she could delete evidence if she ever made a massive feckup? Or is there other motivation for doing it?

There is only one rational reason and that is to dodge accountability. She must have had very good reasons to take such a huge risk, considering that other high-level employees didn´t do similar stuff and are usually just fine. It fits well into the picture, that she deleted all "private" emails before she was handing over the data. Giving her the benefit of a doubt doesn´t make any sense.

Additionally, but that is only a minor issue:
“I think that in an age where so much information is flying through cyberspace, we all have to be aware of the fact that some information which is sensitive, which does affect the security of individuals and relationships, deserves to be protected and we will continue to take necessary steps to do so,” Clinton said."

When do you think she said that?

 

[Grinner]

Hacking of classified information is a pretty big deal IMO. It's the entire reason intelligence services exist.

It's a load of shite and nobody sane really cares about it.

 

[Raoul]

We will find out soon enough when the FBI reveal more on what they found.

 

[ravi2]

It's a load of shite and nobody sane really cares about it.

I agree, her supporters won't be put off by that one bit.

 

[berbatrick]

@InfiniteBoredom @Grinner @Raoul @ravi2

I went through the Sanders subreddit and....almost nothing! The consensus seems to be that he shouldn't get involved while the press is negative, let Trump and Hillary trade insults, and wait for the FBI's verdict. TBH given their feelings towards Hillary I expected pitchforks aimed at Bernie for not attacking immediately. Having said that the CTR memo doesn't seem to have a very strong defence.

I didn't expect anything from this but I think the findings today mean the FBI might act. In that case I do hope her ego doesn't stand in the way. It would be suicidal if he won by superdelegate switching, and even without that I expect a hit on all Dem numbers including his. And Trump gets a readymade attack line of Bernie finishing 2nd in a 1-horse race.*



*My words, I'm sure Drumpf has the best ones.

 

[berbatrick]

@Grinner

https://theintercept.com/2015/08/12/hillary-clinton-sanctity-protecting-classified-information/

 

[barros]

Illegal immigrants don't go protesting.

Why not? They drive, they go to schools, have babies in the hospitals without paying a dime and 99% don't pay taxes.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Too bad Biden couldn't run due to family reasons.

I reckon at this point he'd be favorite to be the next President.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I didn't expect anything from this but I think the findings today mean the FBI might act.

No they won't.

Non compliance with record procedure /= criminal act.

Bet on it

Edit: it's Harry the Shill, but still...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-with-true-independents/?ex_cid=story-twitter

Why not? They drive, they go to schools, have babies in the hospitals without paying a dime and 99% don't pay taxes.

Albuquerque isn't a sanctuary city anymore, so obviously they are fecked if they go protesting and get into a biff with the police.

Common sense.

 

[ravi2]

Too bad Biden couldn't run due to family reasons.

I reckon at this point he'd be favorite to be the next President.

If Biden were to run, it would be his race to lose imo.

 

[barros]

It's a load of shite and nobody sane really cares about it.

If the Chinese or Russian got the hand of some emails then she's done

 

[MrMarcello]

Maybe he could change his name to Barry and be two presidents.

Weren't the conservatives certain he was going to anoint himself as king?

 

[Raoul]

Not good.

 

[MrMarcello]

Those polls that ask Sanders/Trump vote don't take into consideration that few attack ads have come from the GOP. Trump and the GOP would have field day against Sanders. He's already been used by some of the "ghost" GOP candidates in ads attacking opposition GOP candidates. It would get worse when he's the sole focus.

Americans are deathly afraid of socialism and all the other nonsense (and yes, I'm aware that socialism already exists). They'd go off his (I) status and fringe politics, injecting scaremongering on a massive scale. It would be quite effective IMO, seeing as how a portion of the country reacts to nonsense. They'd likely fear his democratic socialist platform more so than Hillary's emails and ilk.

Those poll numbers would soon change, and likely not in Sanders favor. If he's winning by ~5% without being attacked, he'd be fecked IMO. I'm sure Bernie fans will find reason to not believe in this likely reality.

Hillary will certainly need to find a VP that stirs up interest, say Castro or Warren. Castro could ride (hopefully a successful eight years of) Hillary and be the obvious POTUS candidate in 2024. Perhaps a young Barack Obama in the making.

VP Biden, please run.

 

[berbatrick]

Those poll numbers would soon change, and likely not in Sanders favor. If he's winning by ~5% without being attacked, he'd be fecked IMO. I'm sure Bernie fans will find reason to not believe in this likely reality.

His current lead is 11%, and he is leading in all swing states and in fecking Utah.
I, a Bernie fan, have made countless posts that I expect most of his lead to go, but not all of it. His lead over Trump has been bigger than hers' since polling started. The worst poll I have seen recently started is Sanders +4 (it has Hillary -2). There is a single poll out of the 30 taken since 2016 started that has Trump beating Sanders (Trump + 1, 15th Feb)

I'm not as afraid of his socialist label since he has been described daily in every media outlet as "self-proclaimed democratic socialist. But Hilary ran a good smear about taxes rising for the middle class due to single-payer healthcare and they could just focus on the taxes part. And then you add the honeymoon in the USSR and that looks scary. Enough to wipe out a 10 point lead? I'm not sure.


Parachuting in Biden will, and I guarantee this, make sure any Dem-leaning independents (Bernie's base) all stay home.

 

[MrMarcello]

His current lead is 11%, and he is leading in all swing states and in fecking Utah.
I, a Bernie fan, have made countless posts that I expect most of his lead to go, but not all of it. His lead over Trump has been bigger than hers' since polling started. The worst poll I have seen recently started is Sanders +4 (it has Hillary -2). There is a single poll out of the 30 taken since 2016 started that has Trump beating Sanders (Trump + 1, 15th Feb).

Hillary was 59-34 over Trump in July 2015. Attack ads and her other crap have hurt. Give the GOP a full summer to drive fear into the nation and I'd wager Sanders numbers drop considerably and quickly. 11 points can vanish quickly when a nation becomes immersed in fear.

Shittiest group of POTUS candidates ever assembled.

 

[berbatrick]

Shittiest group of POTUS candidates ever assembled.

I'm not American and I'm very young but I do follow politics in India, US and random other countries; I can honestly say Bernie is the best potential leader (not as a candidate but as a president) I have seen.

 

[Raoul]

Those polls that ask Sanders/Trump vote don't take into consideration that few attack ads have come from the GOP. Trump and the GOP would have field day against Sanders. He's already been used by some of the "ghost" GOP candidates in ads attacking opposition GOP candidates. It would get worse when he's the sole focus.

Americans are deathly afraid of socialism and all the other nonsense (and yes, I'm aware that socialism already exists). They'd go off his (I) status and fringe politics, injecting scaremongering on a massive scale. It would be quite effective IMO, seeing as how a portion of the country reacts to nonsense. They'd likely fear his democratic socialist platform more so than Hillary's emails and ilk.

Those poll numbers would soon change, and likely not in Sanders favor. If he's winning by ~5% without being attacked, he'd be fecked IMO. I'm sure Bernie fans will find reason to not believe in this likely reality.

Hillary will certainly need to find a VP that stirs up interest, say Castro or Warren. Castro could ride (hopefully a successful eight years of) Hillary and be the obvious POTUS candidate in 2024. Perhaps a young Barack Obama in the making.

VP Biden, please run.

Bernie's numbers may come down a bit if he faced Trum0p, but I don't think the attacks on him would stick.

 

[MrMarcello]

Bernie's numbers may come down a bit if he faced Trum0p, but I don't think the attacks on him would stick.

Dunno. They'd bring up his vote against the Amber Alert system and vote against criminalizing computer-generated child pornography (his stance was on the grounds of civil liberties (from my limited understanding) but we all know how political smearing works and its effectiveness with the irrational minded).

They'd run ads on his Trotskyist SWP work in 1980, a group that called for abolishing the military budget, and his 1985 trip to Nicaragua. His wife's attempt to defraud the Catholic Church on a land deal and her subsequent 200k payment parachute from Burlington College while he's fighting for financial integrity. Note: Trump might want to be cautious on bringing colleges into the frame with his own legal issues ongoing, then again most citizens seemingly do not give a shit about facts.

Finally, they would go after his policy proposals, and again, facts seemingly do not matter to a sizeable portion of the voting public, a portion that carries a massive deciding factor.

I'd vote for him simply to keep the GOP out of the WH, but (like Clinton) not because I support him or believe he's the best person for the position. I certainly don't echo the sentiment berbatrick above stated about him being the best potential leader he's seen, something I find bizarre. That was Pres Obama in my generation (based on potential leading up to) although Pres Clinton was the best of my generation in terms of actual presidency. I certainly do not see Sanders in their stratosphere of potential/actual.