Thanks for the admonishment.
It's not nonsense (different perspective) but it's a distraction from the purpose of this thread.
2016/2017 Title race
- Thread starter Adisa
- Start date
It's not nonsense (different perspective) but it's a distraction from the purpose of this thread.
whoosh?It is nonsense though.
You're trying to downplay what United have done in the PL era and make out the PL now is infact the strongest we have ever seen - hence them struggling and the mighty Liverpool doing well (I presume).
It becomes nonsensical when you consider all Liverpool's previous triumphs were in an era that was pre PL and at a time of footballing dark ages when the game was much worse and the League dismally poor in quality.
For what it's worth the PL isn't the strongest it's been currently as @#07 has pointed out.
More teams are challenging, Leicester winning last season and the poor European displays all highlight this.
It's anyone's for the taking. No one is particularly impressive.
This weekend really demonstrated how much of an advantage Liverpool and Chelsea have without European football. Spurs, Arsenal, City, and United all looked quite sluggish in their matches. The margins are very, very fine at professional level and that quarter step behind a determined opponent can make a big difference.
Good point. Think we have seen this over the years. Don't think it's a coincidence that the European teams dropped points and the non gained them.
You've extrapolated an awful lot from a single line. Loads in fact. Far more than I intended. You've then dragged up Liverpool's history from nowhere. Way over the top.
Possibly speaks of your current disgruntlement. I didn't mean to push your buttons so significantly.
They are a bit touchy today mate.
Anyway as far as THIS years title race is concerned it's wide open.
I didn't fancy Liverpool for top 4 but hopeful we can make it (not confident), didn't fancy Tottenham either they are also going well at the moment.
Still think City are favourites, but it's far too early to judge.
Have you given any consideration to the fact that the so-called lesser teams in the Premiership are now so awash with cash that they are all some of the richest clubs in Europe now and can afford to get significantly better players? The league is stronger as a result.
Of course I'm disgruntled. My team lost yesterday 4-0.
What did you intend or expect in coming out with that tripe though?
It was a really poor post and not particularly well thought out.
100 per cent agree. That is why, despite yesterday's result, I am optimistic.
We have had a difficult run of games, which isn't even properly over with the City cup tie only 48 hours away, and we're only six points off top spot.
The other top teams are throwing points away left, right and centre. Its very possible that after the Burnley and Swansea games that we'll be right up there. We already would be if not for a once in a season mistake by Dea, something that won't happen again.
Today, the same media that wrongly anointed Man City a month ago, which wrote off Chelsea after Conte went down 3-0 at Arsenal, have decided we're out of it. The journalists been wrong so many times already, I don't see any reason to accept their verdict.
I am still confident that United will challenge for and win the league.
When this manifests itself in European competition I will believe it. Until then I won't buy the Sky Sports/BT Sports propaganda.
I think the League is very 2 two tier this season - more than ever even.
The obvious Top 6 & the rest. Southampton & Everton = best of the rest maybe, but I don't see them bridging the gap. The top 4 have all had 1 loss, 5th place Spurs are unbeaten. In that statistical context = a trend that projects forward Utd are relatively terrible & already well out of it. No one thinks Utd will finish lower than 6th though, do they?
Losses this season then
Man City - Tottenham
Arsenal - Liverpool
Liverpool - Burnley
Chelsea - Arsenal & Liverpool
Tottenham - (none)
Utd - City, Watford & Chelsea
So there you go, Top 6 losses to anyone other than each other = 2 from 54 games. not 54 really, you'd have to takeaway the '''games with other'' from the 54 figure really, but i can't be bothered to look properly, point is likely still valid isn't it?
The obvious Top 6 & the rest. Southampton & Everton = best of the rest maybe, but I don't see them bridging the gap. The top 4 have all had 1 loss, 5th place Spurs are unbeaten. In that statistical context = a trend that projects forward Utd are relatively terrible & already well out of it. No one thinks Utd will finish lower than 6th though, do they?
Losses this season then
Man City - Tottenham
Arsenal - Liverpool
Liverpool - Burnley
Chelsea - Arsenal & Liverpool
Tottenham - (none)
Utd - City, Watford & Chelsea
So there you go, Top 6 losses to anyone other than each other = 2 from 54 games. not 54 really, you'd have to takeaway the '''games with other'' from the 54 figure really, but i can't be bothered to look properly, point is likely still valid isn't it?
Game 36: Arsenal away
Game 37 :Spurs away
Although by then we could likely be trying to stop one of those winning the league.
Game 37 :Spurs away
Although by then we could likely be trying to stop one of those winning the league.
Top 6 will be City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham and United - probably. In which order I don't know.
They are a bit touchy today mate.
Anyway as far as THIS years title race is concerned it's wide open.
I didn't fancy Liverpool for top 4 but hopeful we can make it (not confident), didn't fancy Tottenham either they are also going well at the moment.
Still think City are favourites, but it's far too early to judge.
What have I said that isn't true though? He was talking rubbish and has been told exactly why. Don't see the problem.
As for this season United are 6 points off the top and arguably playing terribly.
I'm not that bothered by that just frustrated as if we were playing to the level these players are capable we would be walking it.
It's a shame Jose hasn't had longer with the squad.
Leicester are doing a pretty good job in European competiton so far.
One swallow and all that. If the Premier League is so competitive and so strong, why are English teams routinely troubled by so-called 'lesser' opposition? Since United stopped flying the flag for England, we have woefully underperformed in Europe. We're lucky the Champions League rules were changed to guarantee England four European Cup spots, because we were at risk of losing that fourth place due to our decreasing UEFA coefficient.
Mate stop being so dramatic. Its more likely to be the other way around. If we can get some momentum over the next month we'll be set for a good run coming up to Christmas.
There's a long, long way to go.
Not sure how long Mourinho has had with the squad is really relevant though, it's just a fact of the situation where you have had Moyes/LVG appointments that haven't worked out and you brought someone else in.
It happens at many clubs. If he stays you will possibly be more stable next year.
You have a lot of good players, at the moment it isn't working (for whatever reasons) - as it stands the league is wide open and It's a team game , so right now you are not capable of walking it based upon the performances so far.
None of the Liverpool fans on here fancied ourselves and most still don't.
It's as daft to talk about us winning it as much as it for United being out of it - it's still up for grabs and very early in the season.
Looking like the first four will be the top four and possibly in that order too. No European football is suiting you and Chelsea fine, especially since Chelsea changed their formation
Spurs are still up there but not exactly firing on all cylinders. Depends how long Kane and Alderweireld are out for, and whether Kane can return to the form of last season. Since the Euros started he's not done that well and Spurs can't really rely on Son to bail them out - especially with some tough fixtures coming up.
As for us, our 'best' team isn't known with changes happening from game to game. At previous clubs Mourinho mainly stuck to the same team with little rotation. To catch up we'll need to get full points/close to full points from the next four league games. Lot of them look easy on paper but so did facing Stoke at home when they were in the bottom 3 and we had beaten them for the past 36 years, and we were confident against Watford away too given they had lost to Arsenal and Chelsea just a couple of games earlier.
We'll have a better idea of how things are shaping up around Christmas but Liverpool and Chelsea seem to be benefiting the most and - Liverpool particularly - have a decent run of fixtures coming up.
We look as likely to drop more points than our rivals than we do gaining more.
We haven't even been in a title race in the last 3 years. It's blind optimism to think otherwise now.
There was a long long way to go in each our last 3 campaigns,we actually tend to have an even worse second half of the season .
Agreed, Christmas time is always a good indication of where it is all at.
No Europe is an advantage, but everyone wants to be in the Champions League - but yes it does help the league form. The Europa league certainly seems to have a negative impact as found last season. That said we nearly won it!
Assuming we lose Mane to the ACON it will be interesting to see how we do without him.
It's wide open and nobody as it stands can be over confident of where their team will finish.
Very true. Still very, very early days and lots can change. Especially with how tight it is at the top of the table.
The best thing about yesterday's result is that despite how awful it was, we are only 6 points off the top spot. Very bizarre really.
6 points over only 9 games is really quite a lot, that said this is all way too early.
It is and it isn't. Without doing any research, how many points did Chelsea have this time last season when it was all going tits up for them, and how many points off top spot were they? Wasn't it more? I seem to remember Chelsea's title hopes being written off by this time last season. I coule be talking total nonsense of course.
Seeing as Chelsea did nothing a better gauge might be Spurs who after 9 games last season had 14 points and mounted a challenge, the same as Utd have after 9 this.
If we win the title this season, I will eat your shit.
It's still only 6 points though. If we pull our shit together we could be 2-3 points off top after Christmas, or 15 if we don't. Bottom line is that despite our poor start, we are not in such a terrible position.
Still maintain the 3 best teams in the League are City, Arsenal & Chelsea. City have far and away the best squad in the League & will be 2nd at worst. Arsenal have solved their two biggest weaknesses CB & CF with Mustafi/Sanchez & have incredible midfield depth. Chelsea have stumbled upon a formation that works for them & are finally keeping cleans sheats.
United, Tottenham & Liverpool will battle it out for the last CL spot.
United, Tottenham & Liverpool will battle it out for the last CL spot.
Chelsea will be nowhere near.
This sounds all too familiar. Isn't this what was being said around all the time last season? "We are so crap yet we are only 3 points behind City etc blah blah we are so crap yet we are only 3 to 4 points behind 4th" and look what happened end of season. We finished in 5th and lost out to City on 4th place in goal difference. I can see why the bookmakers have originally priced us at 1.83 before the Chelsea game. It's 2.1 now btw. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch
Right now its still only a 1/4 of the season gone and its so compressed at the top its impossible to make any predictions. The trick is to stay within touching distance and with the way this league is going then you're always in with a chance - there won't be many weeks where all of the main 6 contenders win, so a win will almost always see you gaining ground on someone.
Whatever way it ends up at the top of the table two top class managers are going to have a lot of explaining to do to to their boards at the end of the season. Having said that perhaps only Conte would be under serious threat of losing his job if he is one of the two.
Whatever way it ends up at the top of the table two top class managers are going to have a lot of explaining to do to to their boards at the end of the season. Having said that perhaps only Conte would be under serious threat of losing his job if he is one of the two.
Obviously it is still early days and many things can happen over the course of a long season. I certainly wouldn't count United out or anything. But I think talk of being only six points off the top is kind of deceptive. The issue isn't just how many points you are behind, but that there are five teams that are 5-6 points ahead. It is arguably more likely to make up 10 points on one team than to make up 5-6 points on five teams. If you're chasing one team, there is a decent chance they implode for some reason (form, injuries, etc). If you're chasing five teams, in all likelihood at least 1-2 of them are going to have a very good season the rest of the way.
In sum, IMO you still have a legitimate shot at the title but your position is considerably worse than just being six points back.
We'll finish ahead of you, that much is certain. We battered two excellent teams in recent weeks while you lot were thoroughly outplayed by Boro at home & fluked a winner against Burnley. Your luck will run out soon enough.
Without denying that points made by the Optimistic Camp are valid, a run of form is a run a form, we will still win games & might improve (I certainly hope so anyway).
Utd have already lost 3 games out of 9, the others have barely lost that number ALTOGETHER. We are 6pts behind 3 teams is it? After not quite a 1/4 of the season. OK.
This equates to the Champions finishing on 84pts let's say, & Utd on 60pts. Not looking so good is it?
I don't think that will happen but blimey we need back to back wins & no more losing for a few games, extremely soon to be able to talk about being in this Title Race. (which we're not, imo). Top 4 is looking a job but we could do that, yes.
Utd have already lost 3 games out of 9, the others have barely lost that number ALTOGETHER. We are 6pts behind 3 teams is it? After not quite a 1/4 of the season. OK.
This equates to the Champions finishing on 84pts let's say, & Utd on 60pts. Not looking so good is it?
I don't think that will happen but blimey we need back to back wins & no more losing for a few games, extremely soon to be able to talk about being in this Title Race. (which we're not, imo). Top 4 is looking a job but we could do that, yes.
Certainly true, only thing to worry about is getting your form sorted now as it can't continue for much longer.
I'm not suggesting it will but if your form continues like this you will end up around 54ish points which is around four points above where Chelsea finished last year.
I see Utd sorting this out though, mourinho is too clever not to. Still think you're in the fight for top four but unrealistic to still think the title is possible.
This makes me feel happy!
This makes me sad!
I neither support or like Arsenal but they are a much better team than Chelsea as they amply demonstrated the other week.
Yup.
It's still doable, but the likelihood of turning the trend mid-season, and picking up 6+ points more than the five teams that have all looked and performed significantly better than we have this far, is quite small.