Harry... he's backtracking out of the twilight zone.
"I never said that", you've been arguing it for the last hour mate.
"I never said that", you've been arguing it for the last hour mate.
“United don’t even fancy it” - Carragher
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The Everton game didn't demonstrate that we should be less adventurous it's that our GK and defenders shouldn't make a mess of things when called upon.
None of those goals came about because of counter attacks for example.
I specifically mentioned those games because they are recent and there isn't a good reason not to have won them.
Sheffield United = Bottom of the league and had this record before we played them. Played 19, Lost 16, drawn 2 and Won 1.
Everton = Winning 2 - 0 and generally outplaying them.
If you dont think being able to win these two games should be a given, then we really have no chance winning anything.
I would have had issue with Carragher if our manager didn't come out and say similar stuff.
As much as we can say, no one expected us to challenge for the title at the beginning of the season, this might be true for fans and pundits, however if this is, and was the attitude of our Manager and players, it unacceptable. What Ole said is indefensible and embarrassing, as players and staff at a club like united, you should be aiming for the tittle, that should be the mentality, anything but the title should be disappointing.
We got ourselves top of the league, are now second, how Ole can laugh off the suggestion that a tittle challenge should be expected is wrong, even Roy Keane who has been his avid supporter said " if you don't have the belief that you can do it, there's a good chance you won't do it" and was disappointed with the comments.
Carragher is right, we are bottling it, regardless of the expatiation at the start of the season, no one expected Leicester city to finish in the top 4 at the start of last season, but for a good period of it they were 3rd, it is right to say they bottled it by not finishing in the top 4.
As much as we can say, no one expected us to challenge for the title at the beginning of the season, this might be true for fans and pundits, however if this is, and was the attitude of our Manager and players, it unacceptable. What Ole said is indefensible and embarrassing, as players and staff at a club like united, you should be aiming for the tittle, that should be the mentality, anything but the title should be disappointing.
We got ourselves top of the league, are now second, how Ole can laugh off the suggestion that a tittle challenge should be expected is wrong, even Roy Keane who has been his avid supporter said " if you don't have the belief that you can do it, there's a good chance you won't do it" and was disappointed with the comments.
Carragher is right, we are bottling it, regardless of the expatiation at the start of the season, no one expected Leicester city to finish in the top 4 at the start of last season, but for a good period of it they were 3rd, it is right to say they bottled it by not finishing in the top 4.
Personally I think Ole was just doing a Mourinho, when he said we weren't considering us title challengers to take pressure of the players. Of course our players are aiming for the title, it just that our squad and manager might not be good enough to pull it off.
It's an incredible narrative.
Liverpool and City are far superior teams to United according to everyone. But this season Liverpool and City will get far less points than last season because it's an unusual season with a difficult schedule leading to far more upsets with smaller teams taking points off the top sides.
So, what an opportunity for United. Their "best opportunity" to win the title. Yet, when United (who had a harder schedule than Liverpool and similar to City) drop points against weaker teams it's not due to the tough schedule. It's because they "don't fancy it".
Then to top it off there's "poor Liverpool" and their injuries. Van Dijk is a huge loss - of course he is. But Gomes, Matip and Jota is hardly the worst injury crisis ever. Why did they let Lovren go without sufficient cover?
United have been without Jones all season and Bailly for most of it. Cavani missed lots of the season through the late start, injuries and the crazy ban. Last season they missed some if their best players for at least half of the season.
United are having a great season, far better than anyone expected, especially after coming into the season at a huge disadvantage. They've been poor in the last few weeks but overall the signs of progress are there for all to see.
Liverpool and City are far superior teams to United according to everyone. But this season Liverpool and City will get far less points than last season because it's an unusual season with a difficult schedule leading to far more upsets with smaller teams taking points off the top sides.
So, what an opportunity for United. Their "best opportunity" to win the title. Yet, when United (who had a harder schedule than Liverpool and similar to City) drop points against weaker teams it's not due to the tough schedule. It's because they "don't fancy it".
Then to top it off there's "poor Liverpool" and their injuries. Van Dijk is a huge loss - of course he is. But Gomes, Matip and Jota is hardly the worst injury crisis ever. Why did they let Lovren go without sufficient cover?
United have been without Jones all season and Bailly for most of it. Cavani missed lots of the season through the late start, injuries and the crazy ban. Last season they missed some if their best players for at least half of the season.
United are having a great season, far better than anyone expected, especially after coming into the season at a huge disadvantage. They've been poor in the last few weeks but overall the signs of progress are there for all to see.
Yes they were behind the pecking order, but as you say they were young is only natural that they got better. Still that doesn't change the fact that we had a very similar squad in quality than today. At least performance wise. The whole "this squad is built for the future" for me is just an excuse.
How can I come to that conclusion? Simply because we haven't. Thats not an opinion thats a fact. Yes we still can do it this season but our current trend is to end up with 74 points. Thats why I argue the progress is not clear to see.
Why Mourinho spending more than Ole has anything to do with it? Ole inherited that squad, it was his decision to "rebuild". I honestly ask, what has Ole done differently to the managers before him that this is a rebuild and the others were not?
I mean all the managers sold and bought a similar quantity of players, but still Ole's time here has been labeled as a "rebuild". I think the only difference is that other managers didn't call it a rebuild, while Ole has say it time and time again. Besides that I think Ole has done pretty much the same as the other managers, ship out players he didn't wanted and bring new players.
It has to do because we did exactly that we signed defensive players and still havent solved our defensive problems.
Great ain’t it, United have a chance this year because Covid happened so city and Liverpool are not as good because of it. Silly United not taking advantage of something that only affected last years top two
Completely agree, De Gea has become a liability. But as you say he's continued to make those mistakes because Ole allows him to by playing him.
City are miles ahead what we can produce. Leicester have probably a better game plan than us. Think we would still need 3 top players and a bit of luck in terms of injuries to match City
Is he talking from personal experience?
In the next few years we'll have to replace the entire backline to stand a chance. The midfield will still need reinforcement, someone to take the place of Fred or McT and provide a better football than we have now (I'll say Fred). Maybe one of the youth players will step up. Depending on whether Martial decides to wake up and act his age, we'll need one or two title winning centre forwards. We'll then need capable replacements for 3 or four positions. I'd say this is our best chance to go for it. City, Liverpool and Chelsea will come out stronger next season, and teams like Leicester and Everton could get better.
Oh please shut up, so hypocritical.
This is you on Ole’s thread performance:It’s still mid season FFS!!
Because you are talking about Ole spending first without having clear understanding why he needed to spend those money in the first place as Mourinho spent on ageing Matic which needs to be replaced now, Lukaku which we sold because the player wanted to leave means we lost the teams quality after we sold him so it makes sense to spend the money to buy new attack, and more players that are declining from Mourinho regular players era.
There are 1 keeper, 4 back four and 1 DM in defense plus squad depth players. Not 2 or 3 players. Do you understand now?
It's amazing how many of these ex-liverpool perennial losers from the past 30 years are now experts in winning titles just because the club managed to win something since they all retired.
If we didn't fancy it this year then I guess you never fancied it at any point in your career then did you eh Jamie
Gobshite
If we didn't fancy it this year then I guess you never fancied it at any point in your career then did you eh Jamie
Gobshite
I very much doubt the Owners would be happy with a top 4 finish over finishing top.
This whole narrative that this forum has that the owners are happy with a top 4 finish is laughable. Why does the CAF believe this? It has nothing to do with financials because we've spent close to a billion in transfer fees. You can't NOT be happy with the amount of money spent.
No he didn't.
“We’re not talking about winning titles,” Solskjaer told Sky Sports after the game.
“We’ve come a long way, this team. We shouldn’t even be considered as title-chasers.
“That’s one for you [the media] – we’ve got to be better as a team and let’s see where we end up. Going forward, we need to stop conceding easy goals.
That's what he said. He's deflecting the for pressure of being title contenders.
Ole does not, not want to win the title, how preposterous do you think that sounds? A Man Utd Legend wanting Man Utd to NOT want to win the title?
Don't be so silly, the players definitely want it. They definitely want it, look at how the squad was after the Villa game. This is the most "together" I've seen the squad in a long time. Each and every single player seem to want.
So publicly throwing them under the bus is the way to go? Worked out well for CAF favourite Mourinho didn't it?
In private he'll be telling the players exactly what they need to hear.
Well the team talk has always been, as it should be, to take each game as it comes and to only focus on the game that's in front of you. Nothing changes, regardless if you're top, bottom or mid-table. Always take each game as it comes. You don't want the players to think they've achieved something when they haven't. Going for it is a risk in itself as you could get over confident and start to lose more than you win. So take each game as it comes and keep doing what you're doing to get you to top of the league.
Well done blowing that strawman down.
What a load of bollocks.
Carragher would say anything to rock the boat.
Every manager should take note now, you have to tell the press your going to win the league, so you can actually win it.
Ranieri must have done that, oh no he did the opposite.
Ole has managed the press brilliantly I must say and whatever he says has purpose.
It’s a long way to go yet, we might come up short but we will definitely be going for it, as long as our players know that’s all that matter.
A lot of our fans are so spoilt.
That may very well be true but what if the scousers hit those daft heights for points again, that is why I think we have missed a real opportunity this season and could look back on it with serious regret.
I want us to do that more than anything but can see our toy story puppet peddling out the hard to do business in this COVID affected market line again in the summer and we will start next season short of even half of what we need.
Harry... he's backtracking out of the twilight zone.
"I never said that", you've been arguing it for the last hour mate.
It was an interesting discussion if nothing else. I reckon we showed him the light mate.
Mate, you need to learn to read before you're going to show anyone the light.
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Alright, pal. I wasn't being entirely serious. It's nothing personal.
Okay, sorry if I misjudged you there.
Then we haven't done well enough in the next few years. They aren't in such a better position than us any more, so if we can't match their progress in the next few years then we aren't doing well enough.
No worries
Incidentally this is another thread by this particular OP designed to spread negativity across this forum. Its all he does here
I don't think we ever believed we could win.
We should have gone to Anfield with more ambition when they were on a downward spiral.
We should have gone to Anfield with more ambition when they were on a downward spiral.
Firstly I say that building a team for the future when its used as an excuse to dont ask for results. I mean for the future when buying players such as Diallo and Pellestri. I do think he is building a team for the future, I dont think that should be stated as an excuse to lower expectations, hope I have explained myself clear there.Oh please shut up, so hypocritical.
It’s still mid season FFS!!
Because you are talking about Ole spending first without having clear understanding why he needed to spend those money in the first place as Mourinho spent on ageing Matic which needs to be replaced now, Lukaku which we sold because the player wanted to leave means we lost the teams quality after we sold him so it makes sense to spend the money to buy new attack, and more players that are declining from Mourinho regular players era.
There are 1 keeper, 4 back four and 1 DM in defense plus squad depth players. Not 2 or 3 players. Do you understand now?
Secondly did Ole spent on a replacement for Matic? Unless you consider Bruno or VDB replacements for Matic then he havent.
Lukaku wanted to leave because he lost his place as a starter here, clearly because Ole didnt fancy him. It wasnt a case of Lukaku wanting to leave just because.
There are 1 keeper, 4 back four and 1 DM. Ole bought the most expensive CB in history and the second most expensive fullback. While bringing a left back as a squad option and Henderson who would be starting in most PL clubs. I think that's about enough to ask for a solid defense. Its not like Shaw or Lindelof are total feck ups. Shaw is between the best in his position and Lindelof while not being great is an average defender at least. We should be able to do a job with the squad we got.
Well feck me sideways, who knew just wanting it the most wins you the league, all that money wasted.
he has never won a title. By what right does he judge us?
we unfortunately have owners that are unwilling to spend the money the club itself is generating - we’ll as a result aways be struggling vs clubs with free spending owners like City and Liverpool.
we will fight all the same. Because we are Utd. Let’s go.
we unfortunately have owners that are unwilling to spend the money the club itself is generating - we’ll as a result aways be struggling vs clubs with free spending owners like City and Liverpool.
we will fight all the same. Because we are Utd. Let’s go.
I’m not sure the players believe we are really in a title race. I don’t think any of them besides DDG have been in this position before? We are desperate for a winner at the base of midfield to drive the team on.
Its not about him saying we going to win the title, no one would say that, but to say we shouldn't be considered and should have never been considered in the title race when you sitting second on the Table and were top of it only weeks ago, is showing a serious lack of ambition, especially after dropping points in the manner we did. He was basically was saying what Carragher said, we weren't going for it. Jesus, Moyes was condemned when he came up with similar shit statements, and rightly so.
People should stop this nonsense that fans are spoilt wanting a team of Man United's stature to be going for league titles. Am sure everyone knows we not entitled to winning trophies every year, but surely teams like Manchester United, Chelsea, Man City, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona should be having a go at titles, and fans expect and should expect that they do so, that's not being spoilt.
Roy Keane has criticized Ole's statements, Rio has come out and said we choked and that it's indefensible being on top of the league like we were and not going for it, am sure they are spoiled and trying to rock the boat as well. Carragher might be a deplorable cnut, but that doesn't make him wrong to say what is obvious, and besides he is paid to give his views.
Speaking of Carragher , it has yet to be explained how he kept his job at Sky after being filmed deliberately spitting on children, while others were sacked for far, far less.
I keep seeing this from a lot of people, that somehow we're overachieving and exceeding expectations. And that's baffling to me: just how low were your expectations to begin with?
I mean, we are on course for 74 points, we crashed out of our CL group after winning the first two games, and lost to the first decent team in the League Cup. It's just about on par. If we finish with 80+ points in the end and win something, then we can say we exceeded expectations. For now? No way.
Our league position skews it somewhat, it takes no consideration into us being just 2 points ahead of Leicester and just 6 points ahead of David Moyes’ West Ham.
I’d say we’re on course for my expectations with consideration to the points total.
Champions League was under par, no question, and 74 points is just about acceptable progress for me although considering how poor we were in the first half of last season, to only beat that points total by 8 points is something of a disappointment. It’s certainly not what our second half of the season form promised.
Next season there will be no excuses though, I will be fully expecting a title challenge and a good Champions League run, anything else and we need to look elsewhere for someone to take us to that next level.
Agree with you, 80 points and silverware is exceeding expectations. Lot of spin going on here though.
I don't really get the absolute Liverpool love on here, 'we don't fancy ourselves the way Liverpool do' - they've just lost to Brighton and Burnley at home after weak performances and got battered by City yet reading Caf you'd think they are the most amazingly wonderful team that's ever played in this league. It used to be Chelsea a decade ago, then City, now Liverpool - doesn't matter how they play, they are the most wonderful team in the world.
Cant believe people agreeing with carragher. He's spouting nonsense to deflect away from his underperforming liverpool team. The players and ole definitely believe they are in one and we are in one. Why do you think the players were "celebrating" with bailly when he blocked that last minute shot against villa. Ole is not going to admit it on camera obviously to not place unnecessary pressure on the players. It is just we screwed up the last 4 four games and city have gained an advantage. They are still the team to beat of course but we are silently behind hoping to take advantage. Carra is talking rubbish.
Exactly. We went 9-5-0 after lockdown, playing some really good stuff. Compared to that, this season has been a bit of a step backwards. Understandable to an extent with the mad schedule and we are definitely stronger than we were in the first half of last season but it's far from overachievement as of now.
Clearly there is no middle ground to be had between throwing players under the bus and lying down, rolling over and having your tummy tickled whilst you tell people we have no business challenging for the title.
We played 9 games post-lockdown, going 6-3-0. However, during that run we had a relatively easy schedule, where the best team we faced was Tottenham. I don't think you could realistically expect the team to reproduce quite that over a whole season, or for that matter the weirdly exceptional record we had against top teams last season, before as well as after Bruno arrived.
But I agree with your general point that ~75 points is a reasonable expectation, and 75-80 a reasonable aim. When pundits and others speak of us doing better than expected, that only makes sense in terms of table position, which certainly is better than expected. But that's due to the relative failure of others, not overperformance from us.
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