“United don’t even fancy it” - Carragher

[POF]

If we hadn't fecked around we'd have won the league. Even the previous leeds game we pissed away points and who can forget sheffield, west brom, palace and everton ? Its actually scandalous how we've pissed away the title.

What a ridiculous post. Prior to the Leeds game was the first time all season where United had a midweek off. Every other week of the season they have played weekend, midweek, weekend. Not to mention 4 games in 8 days coming up. This is on the back of no pre season. Having games where the team is not at their best is inevitable with a schedule like that.

It's been an incredible effort by Ole and the team to produce the season they have. Liverpool "the best EPL team ever" couldn't handle it yet United broke club records this season.

All of that despite a shambolic summer transfer window where the only signing anywhere close to a first choice starter was a 34 year old free agent.

6th to 3rd to 2nd and a European final would be an incredible improvement, all while reducing the average age of the squad and the wage bill.

They will need a good transfer window to even think of challenging next season. Unfortunately, it's far from certain that they will have one.

 

[SmashedHombre]

We’ve been unlucky and had some bad decisions cost us points but we’ve also been cowardly in our setup against the big teams. It’s probably my biggest complaint against Ole and it’s been the same in Europe.

We’ve lost the least amount of games this season - 4 with 3 of those coming in our first 6 games! We’ve just drawn too many due to an element of fear, I think. Frustrating, but City have been better than us tbf.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If we hadn't fecked around we'd have won the league. Even the previous leeds game we pissed away points and who can forget sheffield, west brom, palace and everton ? Its actually scandalous how we've pissed away the title.

In hindsight, it would have been very difficult for us to have won the league this season given that City had to win about 13 in a row to pull away.

That said, I agreed with Carra at the time, and I stand by that. We seemed to be trying to run away from the responsibility of fighting for the title. Before we got to the top, we were giving it far bigger talk, and then when we got there, we tried to avoid the conversation altogether. I said in January that the only way I could see this team winning the league this season is if they won it on the last day. They seem far more comfortable chasing than showing authority and leading. Hopefully next season we go out front-footed from August. I have full faith in Ole though, and back him to bring it home next year.

Man city proves them-selves this season that they are one of the best team/squad in Europe by reaching to final UCL. Their squad is more matured with winning mentality already built years ago and very strong squad depth to be able to compete and playing twice a week.

 

[redrobed]

‘Don’t even fancy it’ and yet we still won the league if you don’t count teams that have spent more money than us/bought our league. He doesn’t seem to realise he’s only insulting his Liverpool.

 

[Champagne Football]

Win the Europa, and finish 2nd, and Ole has greatly exceeded expectations. Before we signed Bruno, there was a feeling that we needed a complete squad overhaul and a new world class manager in charge.

Ole has been brilliant. We're 2 more big signings away from challenging for major trophies. Anyone who thinks we blew the league by playing pussy tactics, is not living in reality.

 

[Pow]

You should have gone for them at Anfield. They were there for the taking.

 

[Rozay]

Man city proves them-selves this season that they are one of the best team/squad in Europe by reaching to final UCL. Their squad is more matured with winning mentality already built years ago and very strong squad depth to be able to compete and playing twice a week.

Look, Man City deserved to win the league, nobody is disputing that, certainly not me. People have come throwing insults and whatever - my own point is simple: I would have liked United to unapologetically pursue the title. Whatever the cards, whatever the relative strengths of the squads, however tough the schedule was - that may well be true. What is also true is despite all that, we found ourselves at the top of the table around halfway and we immediately started, in my opinion, sending the wrong message out. The message that we just want to ‘improve’ rather than compete. ‘Nobody’s thinking about the title’ in every press conference. I didn’t like it.

There is always security in ‘tomorrow’. Today is today. Leicester found themselves at the top of the league when they didn’t expect it in August. Yet there they were, and didn’t hide from it. David Moyes has been consistent with the message he has put out regarding his West Ham team, a team that survived relegation by the skin of their teeth last season, by saying that we want to finish in the top 4. Why would he not say that when he finds himself 4th? The idea that he should be saying that, despite being 4th halfway through the season, that he just hopes his team finish in the top 10 is one I don’t agree with. Liverpool and Chelsea have no more right to 4th than them. By all means, if they beat them they beat them - but at least let them have to do it on the actual pitch first.

Whatever we thought our plans were, we saw that they Liverpool and City who we had just granted superiority over us didn’t seem that intent on taking it. I think the players are let off the hook and told failure is okay when the constant message is that they are not expected to win, and progress for them is just progress. It isn’t just Ole. Gary Neville came on Sky Sports every week saying ‘look, I’m sure most United fans don’t believe they can win it’. This is while we were top, several points ahead of City. If we don’t believe we can win it, who should believe they can? The team in 4th?

It played out how it played out, that is aside from my point. My own point was that I didn’t like our attitude, and I do think that we found ourselves in the awkward position of first and didn’t really know how to move. It was as soon as we went top that we started wobbling. As soon as City put some points between us, our performances picked up again from a safe place. If these players keep getting told that the squad down the road is much better than theirs, that their own expectation is just to move forward - I think it is only natural that they don’t approach the job like winners. Next season, I just hope the message is different from the beginning. Not only in private, but in public. Let there be an accountability of expectation. Let the players know that they will not be praised just for coming second, it will be seen as a disappointment. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen. We came second plenty under Fergie. But we always knew what our target was and were under no illusion that second was not a disappointment.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Look, Man City deserved to win the league, nobody is disputing that, certainly not me. People have come throwing insults and whatever - my own point is simple: I would have liked United to unapologetically pursue the title. Whatever the cards, whatever the relative strengths of the squads, however tough the schedule was - that may well be true. What is also true is despite all that, we found ourselves at the top of the table around halfway and we immediately started, in my opinion, sending the wrong message out. The message that we just want to ‘improve’ rather than compete. ‘Nobody’s thinking about the title’ in every press conference. I didn’t like it.

There is always security in ‘tomorrow’. Today is today. Leicester found themselves at the top of the league when they didn’t expect it in August. Yet there they were, and didn’t hide from it. David Moyes has been consistent with the message he has put out regarding his West Ham team, a team that survived relegation by the skin of their teeth last season, by saying that we want to finish in the top 4. Why would he not say that when he finds himself 4th? The idea that he should be saying that, despite being 4th halfway through the season, that he just hopes his team finish in the top 10 is one I don’t agree with. Liverpool and Chelsea have no more right to 4th than them. By all means, if they beat them they beat them - but at least let them have to do it on the actual pitch first.

Whatever we thought our plans were, we saw that they Liverpool and City who we had just granted superiority over us didn’t seem that intent on taking it. I think the players are let off the hook and told failure is okay when the constant message is that they are not expected to win, and progress for them is just progress. It isn’t just Ole. Gary Neville came on Sky Sports every week saying ‘look, I’m sure most United fans don’t believe they can win it’. This is while we were top, several points ahead of City. If we don’t believe we can win it, who should believe they can? The team in 4th?

It played out how it played out, that is aside from my point. My own point was that I didn’t like our attitude, and I do think that we found ourselves in the awkward position of first and didn’t really know how to move. It was as soon as we went top that we started wobbling. As soon as City put some points between us, our performances picked up again from a safe place. If these players keep getting told that the squad down the road is much better than theirs, that their own expectation is just to move forward - I think it is only natural that they don’t approach the job like winners. Next season, I just hope the message is different from the beginning. Not only in private, but in public. Let there be an accountability of expectation. Let the players know that they will not be praised just for coming second, it will be seen as a disappointment. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen. We came second plenty under Fergie. But we always knew what our target was and were under no illusion that second was not a disappointment.

Look mate, you need to understand that this squad is pretty much about the same squad as last season squad. You can't expect a massive jump of development in the player's mentality or attitude. If anything the fact that we managed to pull lot of come backs from losing position reflects the improvement of the player's mentality & attitude and now for the first time after 4x failures, we are in final of EL. Another sign of progress. '

Good enough, no.
Sign of progress of development & improvement that can lead us to win major trophies in the future with the same squad, yes.

It's madness to even compare it under Fergie era because they have developed the winning attitude for years. We lost the attitude and Ole is trying to build that attitude and mentality again from scratch. Man City has much more experienced and matured squad in term of winning mentality this season, that's why they were able to pull that 15 wins in a row and stay strong mentally while we couldn't.

Next season would be the fair season to expect us to challenge the league in my opinion as we have shown improvement this season.

 

[rotherham_red]

What a ridiculous post. Prior to the Leeds game was the first time all season where United had a midweek off. Every other week of the season they have played weekend, midweek, weekend. Not to mention 4 games in 8 days coming up. This is on the back of no pre season. Having games where the team is not at their best is inevitable with a schedule like that.

It's been an incredible effort by Ole and the team to produce the season they have. Liverpool "the best EPL team ever" couldn't handle it yet United broke club records this season.

All of that despite a shambolic summer transfer window where the only signing anywhere close to a first choice starter was a 34 year old free agent.

6th to 3rd to 2nd and a European final would be an incredible improvement, all while reducing the average age of the squad and the wage bill.

They will need a good transfer window to even think of challenging next season. Unfortunately, it's far from certain that they will have one.

Spot on mate, I agree with every word. And it provides the one thing that's been missing from this debate: context. This squad finished 6th 2 years ago and many of the key players from it (if not all of them) have been sold or sidelined. To expect this same set of players to get to the stage of a title challenge without proper investment in the squad (and by that I mean at the very least two proper first teamers and not £20m punts on kids and squad players) then top 4 is about as good as we can hope next season.

 

[Mickson]

We’ve been unlucky and had some bad decisions cost us points but we’ve also been cowardly in our setup against the big teams. It’s probably my biggest complaint against Ole and it’s been the same in Europe.

We’ve lost the least amount of games this season - 4 with 3 of those coming in our first 6 games! We’ve just drawn too many due to an element of fear, I think. Frustrating, but City have been better than us tbf.

We have also been incredibly lucky sometimes. It evens out. That we will finish second is fair and there is no need to cry about lost points, we haven't been on City's level.

 

[Bubz27]

Don’t even fancy it’ and yet we still won the league if you don’t count teams that have spent more money than us/bought our league.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the whole didn't fancy it schtick but stuff like what you're saying feels so small time. Very Liverpool and alternative league table like.

On topic, I don't know about fancying it or not. I do feel we didn't truly believe we could this year. Maybe winning a trophy this year and a good 2nd place finish gives us that belief.

Ole was strange when we went first as well. We were first and he said we weren't in a title race. Then the week after we lost and went second and he said we're in a title race and we're not going to let City run away with it. Was all a bit weird.

 

[abailey123]

3 games cost us a genuine title challenge - Sheffield United, West Brom and Everton.
It’s been a hell of an effort from our lads this year though when let’s face it, City have the better squad on a whole.
Let’s finish the season strong keeping city honest and win a trophy and I think everyone will be delighted.

 

[justsomebloke]

We didn't push for the win enough in certain games. Our away performance at the Emirates is just one example.

We should have went for the win at Anfield too, but we went into that game giving them far too much respect.

Okay. You do think this is because we "didn't fancy the title", that the manager and the players would not have liked to win the Premier League, and haven't tried their best to win as many games as possible, and that we would if only they got around to wanting it.

Have fun discussing imaginary problems. I'm out of here.

 

[POF]

3 games cost us a genuine title challenge - Sheffield United, West Brom and Everton.
It’s been a hell of an effort from our lads this year though when let’s face it, City have the better squad on a whole.
Let’s finish the season strong keeping city honest and win a trophy and I think everyone will be delighted.

You'd think that, wouldn't you?!

 

[snk123]

We didn't play our strongest team against Leeds. That I agree with - we could have won the game had we played Pogba and Cavani.
Also, we started substituting players like Tuanzebe and Fosu Mensah against Leipzeig at 80 odd minutes because Ole thought we couldn't come back from 3-0 down.

For all the winning mentality and never give up attitude Ole had as a player - I think he needs to transfer it better to the players with his decisions as a manager

 

[crossy1686]

You'd think that, wouldn't you?!

Fecking nailed it, just wait for the moaners at the end of the season who have all forgotten what they would have settled for at the start of this campaign.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Look, Man City deserved to win the league, nobody is disputing that, certainly not me. People have come throwing insults and whatever - my own point is simple: I would have liked United to unapologetically pursue the title. Whatever the cards, whatever the relative strengths of the squads, however tough the schedule was - that may well be true. What is also true is despite all that, we found ourselves at the top of the table around halfway and we immediately started, in my opinion, sending the wrong message out. The message that we just want to ‘improve’ rather than compete. ‘Nobody’s thinking about the title’ in every press conference. I didn’t like it.

There is always security in ‘tomorrow’. Today is today. Leicester found themselves at the top of the league when they didn’t expect it in August. Yet there they were, and didn’t hide from it. David Moyes has been consistent with the message he has put out regarding his West Ham team, a team that survived relegation by the skin of their teeth last season, by saying that we want to finish in the top 4. Why would he not say that when he finds himself 4th? The idea that he should be saying that, despite being 4th halfway through the season, that he just hopes his team finish in the top 10 is one I don’t agree with. Liverpool and Chelsea have no more right to 4th than them. By all means, if they beat them they beat them - but at least let them have to do it on the actual pitch first.

Whatever we thought our plans were, we saw that they Liverpool and City who we had just granted superiority over us didn’t seem that intent on taking it. I think the players are let off the hook and told failure is okay when the constant message is that they are not expected to win, and progress for them is just progress. It isn’t just Ole. Gary Neville came on Sky Sports every week saying ‘look, I’m sure most United fans don’t believe they can win it’. This is while we were top, several points ahead of City. If we don’t believe we can win it, who should believe they can? The team in 4th?

It played out how it played out, that is aside from my point. My own point was that I didn’t like our attitude, and I do think that we found ourselves in the awkward position of first and didn’t really know how to move. It was as soon as we went top that we started wobbling. As soon as City put some points between us, our performances picked up again from a safe place. If these players keep getting told that the squad down the road is much better than theirs, that their own expectation is just to move forward - I think it is only natural that they don’t approach the job like winners. Next season, I just hope the message is different from the beginning. Not only in private, but in public. Let there be an accountability of expectation. Let the players know that they will not be praised just for coming second, it will be seen as a disappointment. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen. We came second plenty under Fergie. But we always knew what our target was and were under no illusion that second was not a disappointment.

great post. completely agree

 

[crossy1686]

We didn't play our strongest team against Leeds. That I agree with - we could have won the game had we played Pogba and Cavani.

Maybe we could have, but we could have won the league if we didn't concede 4 against Everton under Fergie to draw. Splitting hairs and hindsight is always 20/20. The manager always trusts the team he has put out to win the game, if they let him and themselves down it's on them.

 

[snk123]

Maybe we could have, but we could have won the league if we didn't concede 4 against Everton under Fergie to draw. Splitting hairs and hindsight is always 20/20. The manager always trusts the team he has put out to win the game, if they let him and themselves down it's on them.

Yes, but you should always expect the opponents to drop points and play your strongest team. Ole didn't expect City to drop points at all and hence played James, Rashford and Greenwood as a front three when Cavani and Pogba had been in red hot form.

City could have dropped more points against Villa as well - at that particular moment, we should have been trying to get as close to them as possible - not drop 2 silly points.

 

[Ole's screen]

Yes, but you should always expect the opponents to drop points and play your strongest team. Ole didn't expect City to drop points at all and hence played James, Rashford and Greenwood as a front three when Cavani and Pogba had been in red hot form.

City could have dropped more points against Villa as well - at that particular moment, we should have been trying to get as close to them as possible - not drop 2 silly points.

Dude we were 10+ points behind them. Its not like it was a 5-6 point gap. On one hand people get on Ole's back for not rotating enough, but if he does rotate and play a very similar team to that which beat them 6-2 earlier in the season, he's not playing the best team and doesn't really wanna win.

Maybe we should look at the fans life with that level of hindsight. "Oh you didn't get the big promotion this year? Well you just didn't want it."

 

[crossy1686]

Yes, but you should always expect the opponents to drop points and play your strongest team. Ole didn't expect City to drop points at all and hence played James, Rashford and Greenwood as a front three when Cavani and Pogba had been in red hot form.

City could have dropped more points against Villa as well - at that particular moment, we should have been trying to get as close to them as possible - not drop 2 silly points.

Didn't we have a midweek game? These players can't play twice a week for the last 6 weeks or whatever it's been, they need a rest at some point. There's no point in having a squad if you just play the same 11 players every game.

Ole gets massive amounts of shit for playing Rashford and Bruno all the time but without them we're toothless. People need to decide what they want

 

[passing-wind]

This is ultimately Solskjaer's biggest question mark his capacity to win the biggest competitions. Even winning the Europa isn't enough of a merit as Jose achieved exactly the same feat and it stood for nothing objectively assessing his time here.

I credit Ole with doing mostly everything else right recruitment, culture, attitude and the harmony amongst the team cannot be faulted and they are very important aspects concerning the players. But if in the next 24 months after further investment the team are still somewhat weak willed in challenging and going for honours Ole should be replaced and rightly so.

Though I know Lampard was underachieving given his post and it's not really comparable to where Ole is now, one aspect that Abramovic nailed on is the displacement of sentimentality in reference to seasonal objectives. Either in the 22/23 season the club must clearly distinguish what the goals are and if it's to win titles that should be Solskjaer's purpose no matter anything else.

 

[snk123]

Didn't we have a midweek game? These players can't play twice a week for the last 6 weeks or whatever it's been, they need a rest at some point. There's no point in having a squad if you just play the same 11 players every game.

We had a game a week ago before Leeds (Sunday) and then had a game on Thursday. You just don't play James, Greenwood and Rashford together, drop Pogba and expect to get a result if you're serious about closing the gap on the league leaders.

 

[Ole's screen]

We had a game a week ago before Leeds (Sunday) and then had a game on Thursday. You just don't play James, Greenwood and Rashford together, Pogba and expect to get a result if you're serious about closing the gap on the league leaders.

Why do you keep ignoring that we've beaten tons of teams including Leeds with that lineup? You can say that about every team that loses a match. Why can't you play James, greenwood, and Rashford. Two of them are very good forwards and one is a pace merchant who presses well.

Maybe Pogba could have played the game, maybe he couldn't. But to say because he didn't play we weren't serious about winning is ridiculously simplistic and kinda signifies a pointless sort of hate.

 

[Rozay]

Look mate, you need to understand that this squad is pretty much about the same squad as last season squad. You can't expect a massive jump of development in the player's mentality or attitude. If anything the fact that we managed to pull lot of come backs from losing position reflects the improvement of the player's mentality & attitude and now for the first time after 4x failures, we are in final of EL. Another sign of progress. '

Good enough, no.
Sign of progress of development & improvement that can lead us to win major trophies in the future with the same squad, yes.

It's madness to even compare it under Fergie era because they have developed the winning attitude for years. We lost the attitude and Ole is trying to build that attitude and mentality again from scratch. Man City has much more experienced and matured squad in term of winning mentality this season, that's why they were able to pull that 15 wins in a row and stay strong mentally while we couldn't.

Next season would be the fair season to expect us to challenge the league in my opinion as we have shown improvement this season.

I don’t necessarily expect better from the squad, but I must say, I did expect a little better from Ole. Regardless of our plans at the beginning of the season, or whatever schedule we had decided that would be right for us to challenge for the league - we found ourselves at the top THIS season, not next season. Ole, as a man who understands as well as anyone that this club isn’t about second place - I thought he would come out swinging and talking it up as if this was normal rather trying to at least publicly run away from it. That’s my only grievance.

You also don’t get to pick when you are ready. David Moyes likely thought it would be later on that West Ham may get here. Leicester find themselves in the top 4, despite not being part of the ‘Big 6’. If you feel that is where you belong, you will show it in your approach when you get there. For me, United’s gave me the impression, when they were first, that they felt they belonged in second place. And of course, City said okay then.

I don’t think our players are lesser than any in the league. I do think they have been made to feel that by literally everyone involved in the game, and have started to believe it a bit. They need to shed this underdog attitude, this is Manchester United. But we keep telling them ‘don’t worry, you still need a few players, you’re doing great now’, meanwhile City need a striker but get on with it, need a better left back but get on with it.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against us finishing second this year. But I do feel it is hard to just flick a switch and expect these players to REALLY believe it when they have been made to feel lesser for so long. I personally think we have the squad to win the league now, but some players are not winners and are not doing enough. But they are capable. Liverpool put a few players from Southampton and here and there together and won everything, yet we keep waiting on the perfect squad before we can say we are ready to try. Our players are better than people give them credit for, I think.

 

[snk123]

Why do you keep ignoring that we've beaten tons of teams including Leeds with that lineup? You can say that about every team that loses a match. Why can't you play James, greenwood, and Rashford. Two of them are very good forwards and one is a pace merchant who presses well.

Maybe Pogba could have played the game, maybe he couldn't. But to say because he didn't play we weren't serious about winning is ridiculously simplistic and kinda signifies a pointless sort of hate.

That's up for a separate debate but even if you think that is a good trio to play... you have to consider the situation as well.
Rashford was injured/out of form. Greenwood was playing well as a left winger and James hadn't played in a long while.

Whereas we had Cavani on form, Pogba in red hot form on the left and we decided to rest them needlessly.

 

[NZT-One]

Fecking nailed it, just wait for the moaners at the end of the season who have all forgotten what they would have settled for at the start of this campaign.

It really puzzles me to see that line all so often... I mean, football isn't that difficult that we have to simplify things so much and are obliged to stick to predictions we made almost a year ago... We can adapt. All this "expecting to challenge and a Top4 place" was done with assuming having to battle Chelsea with their big investment and Liverpool coming from a title winning season plus ManCity. Nobody would have assumed, that Liverpools looses a lot of players through injury and completely loosing it, Chelsea not starting so well and having a new manager midway through the season. Even City didn't really come out of the startblocks firing from all cylinders until January... The teams battling were/are Leicester, Westham and Aston Villa. So why is it seemingly so difficult to grasp for some people, that a few people are a tad disappointed how things turned out?

United has been relatively injury-free this year. We were scoring goals, even if we didn't play brilliantly, had a good defense, City going deep in the CL and us going deep with not over challenging draws - you could surely make a case for this year being a very good chance to go for the title considering all factors.
That doesn't necessarily mean we have been bad or made mistakes - far from it, what we achieved is admirable and even the way we play these days is awesome. But how we handled going top of the league and just not turning up to fight for it, was disappointing. All the talk about City's squad being so much better - of course that's correct. But it was also more or less the case last year. And the year before and Liverpool challenged them pretty well. This year, we were on top - so it is explicitly not the case, that they were a run-a-way champion, we couldn't reach. It wasn't even a case of the challenge being to big for us just yet and losing the big games. It was not turning up against Sheffield and Westbrom... And even there, we haven't been unlucky or the opponent having a great day - no we just didn't do enough.

We got our act together later. In a very very convincing way and I am very much looking forward to next season for that reason. But we shouldn't be so insecure, to just cut discussions about potential areas to take a lesson from, just by prancing "but nobody would have expected...". Lets imagine, we aren't upgrading the squad significantly or we do but the competition does as well - there is a chance we reach a similar position next year so every lesson we can take, should be taken.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against us finishing second this year. But I do feel it is hard to just flick a switch and expect these players to REALLY believe it when they have been made to feel lesser for so long. I personally think we have the squad to win the league now, but some players are not winners and are not doing enough. But they are capable. Liverpool put a few players from Southampton and here and there together and won everything, yet we keep waiting on the perfect squad before we can say we are ready to try. Our players are better than people give them credit for, I think.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

The size of City's squad and they had a 2 week winter covid break to regroup and go on the run they did.

If it wasn't for an oil state buying a football club, United probably would have been champions this season.

Ole is doing a great job, hopefully he can clinch the Europa so he can kick on again next season.

 

[Ole's screen]

I don’t necessarily expect better from the squad, but I must say, I did expect a little better from Ole. Regardless of our plans at the beginning of the season, or whatever schedule we had decided that would be right for us to challenge for the league - we found ourselves at the top THIS season, not next season. Ole, as a man who understands as well as anyone that this club isn’t about second place - I thought he would come out swinging and talking it up as if this was normal rather trying to at least publicly run away from it. That’s my only grievance.

You also don’t get to pick when you are ready. David Moyes likely thought it would be later on that West Ham may get here. Leicester find themselves in the top 4, despite not being part of the ‘Big 6’. If you feel that is where you belong, you will show it in your approach when you get there. For me, United’s gave me the impression, when they were first, that they felt they belonged in second place. And of course, City said okay then.

I don’t think our players are lesser than any in the league. I do think they have been made to feel that by literally everyone involved in the game, and have started to believe it a bit. They need to shed this underdog attitude, this is Manchester United. But we keep telling them ‘don’t worry, you still need a few players, you’re doing great now’, meanwhile City need a striker but get on with it, need a better left back but get on with it.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against us finishing second this year. But I do feel it is hard to just flick a switch and expect these players to REALLY believe it when they have been made to feel lesser for so long. I personally think we have the squad to win the league now, but some players are not winners and are not doing enough. But they are capable. Liverpool put a few players from Southampton and here and there together and won everything, yet we keep waiting on the perfect squad before we can say we are ready to try. Our players are better than people give them credit for, I think.

I think the Players did really believe honestly. I remember the spirit after one of the games in January when we saw out a win and everyone jumped on Bailly. I think the team genuinely believed then. But then Pogba got injured and we lost to Sheffield and threw away 2 points to Everton and thats when the team lost belief in the title chances and decided to just consolidate 2nd and go all out for the EL. I think if City had shown a more mortal run of form dropping a couple more games along the way the belief would have come back and we would have been still in and I bet Ole would have come out swinging too. But they didn't, and at that point Ole was right to say the title is gone as he'd have looked stupid talking about a title race sitting 8-10 points behind when City are looking so unlikely to drop 10 points over the course of the season let alone us being able to make that gap up.

 

[RuudTom83]

But you can easily argue that City's sloppy performances in the Prem the last few weeks is largely down to the Prem being wrapped up.

IF United had won a few more games then sure it would be closer, but I'd fully expect City to have been sharper to due to the added pressure United would hypothetically have added.

Would of, could of, should of...its irrelevant in the end.

 

[snk123]

It really puzzles me to see that line all so often... I mean, football isn't that difficult that we have to simplify things so much and are obliged to stick to predictions we made almost a year ago... We can adapt. All this "expecting to challenge and a Top4 place" was done with assuming having to battle Chelsea with their big investment and Liverpool coming from a title winning season plus ManCity. Nobody would have assumed, that Liverpools looses a lot of players through injury and completely loosing it, Chelsea not starting so well and having a new manager midway through the season. Even City didn't really come out of the startblocks firing from all cylinders until January... The teams battling were/are Leicester, Westham and Aston Villa. So why is it seemingly so difficult to grasp for some people, that a few people are a tad disappointed how things turned out?

United has been relatively injury-free this year. We were scoring goals, even if we didn't play brilliantly, had a good defense, City going deep in the CL and us going deep with not over challenging draws - you could surely make a case for this year being a very good chance to go for the title considering all factors.
That doesn't necessarily mean we have been bad or made mistakes - far from it, what we achieved is admirable and even the way we play these days is awesome. But how we handled going top of the league and just not turning up to fight for it, was disappointing. All the talk about City's squad being so much better - of course that's correct. But it was also more or less the case last year. And the year before and Liverpool challenged them pretty well. This year, we were on top - so it is explicitly not the case, that they were a run-a-way champion, we couldn't reach. It wasn't even a case of the challenge being to big for us just yet and losing the big games. It was not turning up against Sheffield and Westbrom... And even there, we haven't been unlucky or the opponent having a great day - no we just didn't do enough.



Couldn't agree more.

We got our act together later. In a very very convincing way and I am very much looking forward to next season for that reason. But we shouldn't be so insecure, to just cut discussions about potential areas to take a lesson from, just by prancing "but nobody would have expected...". Lets imagine, we aren't upgrading the squad significantly or we do but the competition does as well - there is a chance we reach a similar position next year so every lesson we can take, should be taken.

Top post.

 

[Vidyoyo]

But you can easily argue that City's sloppy performances in the Prem the last few weeks is largely down to the Prem being wrapped up.

IF United had won a few more games then sure it would be closer, but I'd fully expect City to have been sharper to due to the added pressure United would hypothetically have added.

Would of, could of, should of...its irrelevant in the end.

Yes, it's such an obvious point that's being lost right now.

People who think Pep would be rotating this much for the CL if he weren't in pole position are silly.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Fecking nailed it, just wait for the moaners at the end of the season who have all forgotten what they would have settled for at the start of this campaign.

It's all very well winning the tinpot trophy and finishing 2nd, but Ole didn't even try to solve the problems in Gaza and the middle East.
He's a coward.

 

[snk123]

Yes, it's such an obvious point that's being lost right now.

People who think Pep would be rotating this much for the CL if he weren't in pole position are silly.

Which means City would probably had more injuries to key players as well so nothing is for certain except the fact that we should have gone for wins in a few games and given our all for the title regardless of what City were doing.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Which means City would probably had more injuries to key players as well so nothing is for certain except the fact that we should have gone for wins in a few games and given our all for the title regardless of what City were doing.

And if we'd have really gone for it, perhaps we'd have had more injuries too?

This is all hypothetical and getting silly. Particularly because I don't believe our squad is good enough to win the title.

 

[r3idy]

Look mate, you need to understand that this squad is pretty much about the same squad as last season squad. You can't expect a massive jump of development in the player's mentality or attitude. If anything the fact that we managed to pull lot of come backs from losing position reflects the improvement of the player's mentality & attitude and now for the first time after 4x failures, we are in final of EL. Another sign of progress. '

Good enough, no.
Sign of progress of development & improvement that can lead us to win major trophies in the future with the same squad, yes.

It's madness to even compare it under Fergie era because they have developed the winning attitude for years. We lost the attitude and Ole is trying to build that attitude and mentality again from scratch. Man City has much more experienced and matured squad in term of winning mentality this season, that's why they were able to pull that 15 wins in a row and stay strong mentally while we couldn't.

Next season would be the fair season to expect us to challenge the league in my opinion as we have shown improvement this season.

Bang on the money here and totally agree.

When Ole came onboard he referenced a vision on when he believed the team would mature into proper consistent contenders and to achieve that it would take two or three major summer windows to do it. There is two ways to get on par with city to challenge. Overspend and fast track it with experienced pro's. We tried that under Jose and that didn't work out, or you go for the long haul and look at what you have, what's their potential and when will they mature into players who are physically ready to dominate games not for five minute spells but for 20, 30, 40, 60 minute spells. Get out the 'deadwood' realise that not every single transfer will come off and add to the depth and quality when the opportunity arises. These owners are not going to spend £200m / £300m every summer to overtake City, it's a fools game as they simply would not get the return

Pretty much every dominant sporting team regardless of the sport, knows when to refresh the team, sell players who are just beyond their peak to maintain that cycle. Would not be suprised one bit to see a Lewandoski leave now and Bayern take a year of pain but have the recruit in to last them five or six years. Liverpool the same with Salah or Mane, Utd with Pogba. Fergie was the master of breaking up teams. Our issue has been really poor recruitment to have consistency. Moreover it's not workable to keep buying three to five players and selling three to five players. From a team dynamic, it's not workable

We have one of the youngest squads by average age in the Prem, probably even younger if you take out Matic and Mata. We are 2nd in a shitty season and we are finding some level of consistency more so than any team bar City. On our way to a European final and the players attitude is night and day compared to any time since Fergie left. A lot more ticks than crosses in my book. Agree next season should be another season of progress, When the opportunity arises, we should be giving teams a good mauling and we need to be winning more games against 'low block' anti football teams.

 

[Galactic]

We are never good enough to win the league this year. Next year though, if we don’t seriously challenge for the title, Ole have to go, unfortunately.

 

[SER19]

I totally understand people's frustrations. The Sheffield United and Everton home results should have been 5 points and we really would be right in the mix. The most freak result in years and a 95th minute equaliser after stoppage time. On the other hand, those 2 shocks were essentially all that stood between us and going toe to toe despite guardiola having had many more years than solskjaer to build his own team, and solskjaer taking over at a way worse point that guardiola did at City.

The trajectory is clear and i think Solskjaer should be trusted with another window and next season to go to next level. Sancho would be a huge addition

 

[Red Royal]

I totally understand people's frustrations. The Sheffield United and Everton home results should have been 5 points and we really would be right in the mix. The most freak result in years and a 95th minute equaliser after stoppage time. On the other hand, those 2 shocks were essentially all that stood between us and going toe to toe despite guardiola having had many more years than solskjaer to build his own team, and solskjaer taking over at a way worse point that guardiola did at City.

The trajectory is clear and i think Solskjaer should be trusted with another window and next season to go to next level. Sancho would be a huge addition

In addition to that the away gave versus Palace was extremely lacklustre.. we really should be a bit closet to Citeh.

 

[croadyman]

I think the Players did really believe honestly. I remember the spirit after one of the games in January when we saw out a win and everyone jumped on Bailly. I think the team genuinely believed then. But then Pogba got injured and we lost to Sheffield and threw away 2 points to Everton and thats when the team lost belief in the title chances and decided to just consolidate 2nd and go all out for the EL. I think if City had shown a more mortal run of form dropping a couple more games along the way the belief would have come back and we would have been still in and I bet Ole would have come out swinging too. But they didn't, and at that point Ole was right to say the title is gone as he'd have looked stupid talking about a title race sitting 8-10 points behind when City are looking so unlikely to drop 10 points over the course of the season let alone us being able to make that gap up.

Yeah it was that bad run of form between scousers away in mid January and Palace away in early March which totally did for us in regards to challenging for the league this season. The poster makes a good point that Utd naively probably believed that City would also drop some points in this period too but unfortunately for us that never materialised at all. You have to feel that the Pogba injury against Everton also really flattened us and genuinely think with him we hold on plus beat WBA & Palace too.