They made mistakes in some of our big games too. Playing against Barcelona and City on a big european night, they might take the chances you give them
‘Elite’ hipster CBs vs Maguire & Lindelöf
- Thread starter sammsky1
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They made mistakes in some of our big games too. Playing against Barcelona and City on a big european night, they might take the chances you give them
Based on what?
from what I’m seeing this evening, he is very inconsistent and I get nervous for Napoli when he’s tackling or on the ball.
I know I am no authority mate, we are all football fans with different opinions and occasionally outrageous ones.
You know that thing where the definition of world class is vague? Perhaps elite is something like that.
My ideal elite is a Maguire with pace. That's my opinion though.
Think he's responding to me as a Chelsea fan, mate. That said, he would be a massive upgrade on Lindelof.
I just knew when I saw this thread, it will turn into shitting on our own players and bigging up hyped players from other clubs.
We’ve not bought a centre half in the past 15 years who had had such an immediate and important impact as Maguire. I think perhaps the only one I remember is Stam, who aside from his first couple of games slotted straight in, and that was 20 years ago.
That’s not to say he doesn’t have weaknesses, and lack of pace is very clear to see.
I think a proportion of our fans base are very harsh on Maguire. There are not many better CBs than him, and even fewer who have been available over the past 12 months, and probably none that have PL experience.
Is Koulibali actually better than Maguire though? I know this is one game, but my ... he looks horrible on the ball, 1 or 2 folks in the know (regarding the Italian league) here say he's been poor this season, and I think I remember something about Smalling having better numbers for the league season!
And it makes sense to ignore the past years when Maguire was the most wanted defender in England including Pep wanting to spend 60m+ on him.
Your garbage defense getting crushed by Arsenal and Bayern seems to have rustled your jimmies here.
Really? What I see said (and agree with) is that Lindelof has little pace (to recover) and is physically often meek. And I also don't see people salivating about Koulibaly's passing out of defense, but more that he's a powerhouse defender who is among the best in the world.
There is no way we're after an established centre back for mega money, but we seriously need an upgrade to better compliment Maguire. Maguire was massively overpriced, but he's now our captain and we'll need to augment the situation we have. That means, we simply have to have a defender next to him who is fast.
Two big name defenders having a bad game (not watching the Barca match) doesn't mean our defenders are all of a sudden much better. Come on.
This is such a laugable thread. Not in the fact that I'm going to say Koulibaly is better or worse than Maguire, but the fact that you're making this statement based on watching two matches.
This is what is wrong with the Twitter generation of football fans. Watch 1 or two matches and give opinions like they've seen them their whole career.
This is what is wrong with the Twitter generation of football fans. Watch 1 or two matches and give opinions like they've seen them their whole career.
The guilty are all showing up in droves!
You can take a sample size of the last 150-200 games to show that Varane and Koulibaly have been firmly ensconced in the top 5 centre-halves in the world over the last few years. A sample size of 1 isn’t very persuasive and smacks of the same knee-jerkery in the Van Dijk thread when it was gleefully bumped after he made his first error in 50 games.
Again I like him, his lack of pace though is my biggest worry and I think he will cost us goals against elite teams or prevent us from playing higher up the pitch.
You're seriously comparing Maguire at Hull and Leicester to Koulibaly who has been universally lauded as being among the best CBs in Europe? This is hilarious.
Not at all. I’ve stated my expectations for record fee type players. Turn up in big games. In fact these are the only games worth watching when making such an assessment.
Smalling had the best numbers out of CBs for pretty much the entire first half of the season and finished 2nd behind Godin. So its no surprise that Koulibaly is behind. So are 99% of the other CBs in the league
Sorry, which big games has Maguire shown up in and do they at all compare to a CL knockout tie vs. Barcelona? Given that he's a record fee type player.
You'll not find many supporting this opinion. Varane and Koulibali are among the very best at this moment in time. Varane is a World Cup winner and has won the European Cup on numerous occasions. Even with my Red coloured tints, I cannot agree Maguire or Lindelof is a patch on the two you mention. Unfair to judge these players on what you've seen over the last 2 days.
Good post!
One thing you have to take note of when comparing players, especially defenders, is that playing in Europe is not the same as playing in the Premier League. How many games do the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona have where the defence has to be switched on for 90 minutes?
Are Maguire and Lindelof elite? No but with the right players in front of them they can be good enough to win titles.
Are Maguire and Lindelof elite? No but with the right players in front of them they can be good enough to win titles.
It’s a stupid question when you know he’s never played in the CL.
I don’t think it’s unfair at all. These are the games you pay the big bucks for. Otherwise Liverpool were very harsh on Karius?
Clearly getting your knickers twisted here, as badly as Chelsea' defense.
One guy was Pep's first choice for a new CB and England's captain and large part of a successful WC run, other has never had anyone seriously bid for him
I think we can do far better than Lindelof but it's not as easy to find a top CB as people think.
I hear the same theme regarding attacking players in European leagues, namely that apparently it's easier for attacking players in foreign leagues compared to in the Premier League because the defending isn't as tight or to as high a level, and according to this point it's also easier to defend in foreign leagues as well?
Our matches vs top 6, and also our entire post lockdown sequence which were virtually all must win matches. HM and VL were outstanding during all these games.
Totally agree. People just want the hot new name to throw about without ever actually watching them play. Maguire is damn good and lindelof isn’t bad either, both are way underrated by our fans.
Someone who two-footed people before it was cool.
Exactly which is why this entire comparison is stupid. I understand being biased towards your own players but this is cringey on the level of the Herrera vs. Kante thread.
Yes because the only big game 3 time UCL and World Cup winner Varane has had in his career was yesterday against City and you happened to catch it! Brilliant spot!
So if Smalling outperformed Koulibaly over the course of a season, and Maguire for all his weaknesses (just one main one being the lack of pace really), improved our defence after replacing Smalling, how do we know Koulibaly is any better than Harry?
There's been a lot of that nonsense on the caf lately. Some here seem like they are waiting for bad games from opposing players to gloat about how overrated they are.
This OP could just as easily have been made on a rivals forum after Chelsea humiliated us in the FA Cup the other week.
Varane is a fantastic player, Koulibaly is a 7/10 defender like the names you mentioned and is 29 and is still unproven as far as big title winning games are concerned.
OP is doing Varane a disfavor by clubbing him with Koulibaly.
Using the fact that Pep considered bidding for him and ultimately decided he was overpriced as a point in Maguire's favour. This is maybe the hardest I've ever seen someone grasp at straws on this forum, and that's saying a lot.
The point is that if you turn on the TV and watch ONE game, there is always a possibility that a player might be having an off day. By virtue of a player having played 150-200 games at the very highest level, it makes it more likely that those bad performances you see are the exception rather than the rule, no? And certainly people who have watched someone play more than just a couple of times has more data and experience through which to make an informed evaluation, surely?
It’s a step up moving from Italy to the PL these days.
Koulibaly would be a huge risk to any PL team buying him, and has big flop written all over him.
Massive transfer fee, 3-4 year contract on big wages, new league at his age - and if he doesn’t work out will be very difficult to move on.
Yep. He was terrible. Like really really terrible. Like he had the yips.
I don't watch Madrid but I've seen a fair bit of Napoli this season. This isn't just one game - Koulibaly has been poor throughout the majority of the season.
So yes, you'd consider a league match vs. Bournemouth as being on the same level as a CL knockout tie vs. Barcelona? Just checking because that's preposterous.