If Di Maria is calculating enough he should blame this all on LVG and say he loved the club and fans but slate Van Gaal. Most of our fans would lap it up.
I think he has good reason to criticize LvG, though not blame him for everything. Clearly LvG did not help Di Maria to find his best form or encourage him to perform, and in the end, he benched him for Young...
Young played well, so it's not my intention to disparage him, but you should play your star players in the end, even when they hit a rough patch. A big part of the Di Maria failure was indeed LvG.
It's a sad end for both Di Maria and United here. United could still use a player of his qualities, Di Maria could have elevated himself to a superstar here, rather then a second banana. It's not incredibly surprising though, as the writing was on Di Maria's 'letter' to Real Madrid fans at the very beginning of the season. He didn't want to leave Madrid, he was forced out.
The bottom line is, he was never comfortable to be in Manchester in the first place. His family wasn't comfortable moving here, and he didn't have a burning professional desire to be here either. I have great respect for family, and I can understand if moving from Madrid to Manchester could be a huge culture shock to a Latin family. But ultimately, if Angel Di Maria believed that moving to United would be the next big step in his career and 'HAD' to be done, I think his family would have supported him. I believe they didn't because he himself was not comfortable in Manchester.
It seems clear to me, from both the letter Di Maria wrote to Real Madrid fans, and the media speculation that his ideal landing place was Paris, that he was hoping for a move to PSG. There is nothing wrong with that, PSG has become a massive club with a big future. I can understand Di Maria and his family would feel more comfortable in an environment that is a lot more similar to that of Latin America and Madrid, but I wish he had fought a little harder to make it here, both on and off the field. In the end, though I don't think that was his intention at all, I feel Di Maria used United to get a move to PSG and net Real Madrid a big payday in the process. He wanted the money, the glamour, the status of a superstar and he'd hoped PSG would give that to him, but they couldn't last year, so he took United instead, who could offer that. Unfortunately he was never prepared to fight for that.
So now what? I said the moment United signed Di Maria we overpaid a boatload. We did. But now, people are saying he's a scrub with no backbone, which is also untrue. Di Maria is a talented player, but he is never a primary superstar. He doesn't, and never has scored enough goals, he doesn't have the mentality, the ego, to dominate a team and make it his. He is and will remain a secondary player in my opinion, but a brilliant one at that. That's why he worked so well at Real with a personality like Ronaldo there, and I think he will work at PSG with Ibra as well. We will sell him at a loss while getting little from him during the season, and I believe, he will do very well for PSG. Our loss, but who is blame?
So who do we blame? Angel Di Maria? Louis van Gaal? Ed Woodward? Probably a bit of everyone, sure. Di Maria should have had a bit more 'backbone' as some people have said, some professional pride that will make you do good by the club who believed in you. LvG though should have recognized that Di Maria would not have worked as well at United as he did at Real. That Di Maria was a fantastic addition as a secondary player, not a primary player, but maybe even more importantly, recognizing what position he would be successful in. He never found that spot for him, in in truth, made things even more difficult for Di Maria then necessary on the field. Then Ed Woodward. I feel he just wanted a marquee signing with no regard for whether it fit the team in any way, because he hasn't got a clue about football. It's Ed I'm most critical of because a football man would have seen immediately, Di Maria's obvious discomfort at joining United, would have figured the move would not end well, because in the end, Di Maria never really wanted to be here. It's Ed Woowards job to (as well as LvG) to make these kind of decisions. They failed.
I think Di Maria made a huge mistake in joining United, where he and his family were not comfortable to be. But more damningly, LvG and Woodward failed to recognize this. Di Maria is an amazing player (though not worth what we paid him) but ultimately, a secondary player, while we were looking for a primary superstar.
All your points make sense individually, but it doesn't on the whole hold up for me. Allow me to add my own SWAG* to this.
The fundamental problem is that Di Maria lacked the constitution--maybe the wisdom. He started out well. He looked noticeably focused at his unveiling, like he had a real sense of intent about him. He started the season murdering it. Yeah, he would take chances that didn't work out (usually shooting) but he wowed everyone with his crossing and medium range passing through the air. He did things we aren't used to seeing he looked the part. He had the skill, confidence and verve we expect of top United players.
We were tickled at how we got him. Rumor was he left Real after receiving a letter telling him they expected him to put their interests first and not risk further injury by playing in the World Cup final. He tore up the note. Not much longer he pulled on a United shirt and looked around Old Trafford with narrow eyes.
It's hard to land much better than he did: club status, league status and wage. He was in prime position to step up as a player.
Again, he started like he would...then he wilted. A run of bad form, some personal issues off the field, some injuries and finally an extended spell out of the team. People deal with stuff like this all the time--in and out of football.
The break in was undoubtedly traumatic. That sucks. If that happened to me, I'd be wrought over how my family would recover. Alone is an entirely different matter. Regardless, he had the means to cope. Hire security and therapy. Whatever. Figure it out if you want to. If you dont, just quit.
The cultural adjustment is only as hard as your comfort zone is small. I don't feel like he was some poor, ignorant refugee who'd found himself in a bizarre and cruel land. People make it out like he woke up like Fry in Futurama. He just looked around and said, "this is too much".
Ultimately he looked around again. He wasn't narrow-eyed this time. Rather, he was tired and scared. He quit, simply quit. Allet thathe ambition and desire evaporated. He wilted.
Should Woodward have seen this? With what little we know, that'd probably be harsh. There'd have been inherent cynicism if he had. A club like United should be in for available world class players. Maybe he wasn't the most needed player out there, but given his ability he was worth getting. United could afford him; the frugal days are of another era.
Could Van Gaal have done better? Probably. He seems to have a record of falling out with those that don't both for and fully adopt his methods. It's so comprehensive and thorough that we are still using "philosophy" as the nebulous catch all for this. It seems Di Maria didn't fit into this, but we won't know for a while--if ever. We're not hanging out on this forum because we kick it with Van Gaal when we aren't drinking with Ferguson.
For me Di Maria has the most fault in this. I can't get to thinking his failure was ordained by others. It's time for him to go. He showed why he would have been great for United and why he just won't.
All your points make sense individually, but it doesn't on the whole hold up for me. Allow me to add my own SWAG* to this.
The fundamental problem is that Di Maria lacked the constitution--maybe the wisdom. He started out well. He looked noticeably focused at his unveiling, like he had a real sense of intent about him. He started the season murdering it. Yeah, he would take chances that didn't work out (usually shooting) but he wowed everyone with his crossing and medium range passing through the air. He did things we aren't used to seeing he looked the part. He had the skill, confidence and verve we expect of top United players.
We were tickled at how we got him. Rumor was he left Real after receiving a letter telling him they expected him to put their interests first and not risk further injury by playing in the World Cup final. He tore up the note. Not much longer he pulled on a United shirt and looked around Old Trafford with narrow eyes.
It's hard to land much better than he did: club status, league status and wage. He was in prime position to step up as a player.
Again, he started like he would...then he wilted. A run of bad form, some personal issues off the field, some injuries and finally an extended spell out of the team. People deal with stuff like this all the time--in and out of football.
The break in was undoubtedly traumatic. That sucks. If that happened to me, I'd be wrought over how my family would recover. Alone is an entirely different matter. Regardless, he had the means to cope. Hire security and therapy. Whatever. Figure it out if you want to. If you dont, just quit.
The cultural adjustment is only as hard as your comfort zone is small. I don't feel like he was some poor, ignorant refugee who'd found himself in a bizarre and cruel land. People make it out like he woke up like Fry in Futurama. He just looked around and said, "this is too much".
Ultimately he looked around again. He wasn't narrow-eyed this time. Rather, he was tired and scared. He quit, simply quit. Allet thathe ambition and desire evaporated. He wilted.
Should Woodward have seen this? With what little we know, that'd probably be harsh. There'd have been inherent cynicism if he had. A club like United should be in for available world class players. Maybe he wasn't the most needed player out there, but given his ability he was worth getting. United could afford him; the frugal days are of another era.
Could Van Gaal have done better? Probably. He seems to have a record of falling out with those that don't both for and fully adopt his methods. It's so comprehensive and thorough that we are still using "philosophy" as the nebulous catch all for this. It seems Di Maria didn't fit into this, but we won't know for a while--if ever. We're not hanging out on this forum because we kick it with Van Gaal when we aren't drinking with Ferguson.
For me Di Maria has the most fault in this. I can't get to thinking his failure was ordained by others. It's time for him to go. He showed why he would have been great for United and why he just won't.
Well I agree with you too. He signed him after all.
Where we seem to disagree is the idea that the positions Di Maria was asked to play are a key factor in his failure. It's chicken and egg really. He started off in his "best" position and I think none of the subsequent shifting around would have happened if he hadn't been such a lightweight in a position/league which has such an emphasis on physicality.
Well, define key. Without being too Blair about it, I'd say they were significantly contributory. And I don't think it's a chicken and egg situation at all - neither LVG's use of him or Di Maria's ineffectiveness necessarily caused one another, but both contributed to his failure to really kick on here.
And while you may have a point about his never being cut out for PL midfielding, that doesn't do much for the decision to take him off the wing and put him up front. He may not have been a midfielder, and he may initially have struggled on the wing (in, it should be noted, a team that at that time was struggling far worse in a number of other positions), but he was clearly a better winger than a striker. So, again, you have to lay at least some of the blame at LVG's door.
Since I highly doubt you totally absolve LVG of all responsibility, we're presumably just arguing over the degree. I think Di Maria was disappointing but not unforgivably so for his first season, especially given the personal disruption. I still remember a time when it was widely and genuinely accepted that any player's first season would be a slow one. Remember how Silva looked weak and slow and out of his depth for almost an entire year when he first joined City, and everyone just sort of nodded, and said 'season to settle in, probably', and he went on to be consistently the best attacking midfielder in the league season after season?
So yes, he's clearly giving up too soon, when this season could easily have become a not-uncommon blip at the start of a successful run with us. But just because he's wimping out early doesn't mean his unremarkable start was particularly egregious or entirely his own fault.
1.We dropped him for the second half of the season, he was the first person on the team sheet in the first half of the season, up until that game against Arsenal in March.
2.We are not discarding Di Maria, he is leaving us for his preferred option, it is really that simple - nothing to cry about, clubs treat players like that all the time, we did however discard the likes of RVP,Rafael,Anderson and co.
3.I have NEVER acknowledged the season Di Maria had with us as a good season, talk less of a great one, and i never called him a regular starter... he was average,sometimes disappointing but he still managed to rack up 13 assists and 4 goals which helped us get CL football.
4. Di Maria was very much in our plans for next season before the reports about his move to PSG started gathering steam so i don't know what you're on about.
I'll never understand people who go searching through peoples post history, really fecking sad in my opinion. If you need to do that to try and win an argument then your argument is severely lacking substance in the first place. Did I not earlier in this very thread say that it's Human nature for 'the narrative to change'? I probably then focused on the positives since he was our player and now he isn't, I'll do the opposite.
I didn't for one second think he wouldn't get a second season here, but say what you like, LVG doesn't fancy him (and with hindsight I can certainly see why not) and he's being discarded to the only bidder. If we'd have wanted him to stay he would 100% have stayed as per his lengthy contract, but since we didn't... Adios comadreja!
I agree, I am guilty of calling him a pussy, but would never insult anybody about their appearance, mind you I am shocked he can even walk , what with having no backbone.
Calling him a pussy etc is fine. It's an attack on the way he's been behaving during the past year but the appearance is something he can't really help can he.
Calling him a pussy etc is fine. It's an attack on the way he's been behaving during the past year but the appearance is something he can't really help can he.
And while you may have a point about his never being cut out for PL midfielding, that doesn't do much for the decision to take him off the wing and put him up front. He may not have been a midfielder, and he may initially have struggled on the wing (in, it should be noted, a team that at that time was struggling far worse in a number of other positions), but he was clearly a better winger than a striker. So, again, you have to lay at least some of the blame at LVG's door.
Since I highly doubt you totally absolve LVG of all responsibility, we're presumably just arguing over the degree. I think Di Maria was disappointing but not unforgivably so for his first season, especially given the personal disruption. I still remember a time when it was widely and genuinely accepted that any player's first season would be a slow one. Remember how Silva looked weak and slow and out of his depth for almost an entire year when he first joined City, and everyone just sort of nodded, and said 'season to settle in, probably', and he went on to be consistently the best attacking midfielder in the league season after season?
So yes, he's clearly giving up too soon, when this season could easily have become a not-uncommon blip at the start of a successful run with us. But just because he's wimping out early doesn't mean his unremarkable start was particularly egregious or entirely his own fault.
How many games did LvG play him as a striker? 2, at most 3? His logic for using di Maria in the 'Robben role' was clear - he wanted more pace upfront along with stretching the pitch. He did have great success by using Robben as the second striker; clearly, there was no harm trying di Maria especially when RvP and Falcao were piss poor. Also- it seemed more of a free role to me (just like Robben had in the WC)
Its not as if the manager carried on with ADM as the striker when he saw him not doing as well. He accepted that the experiment was not working and reverted him back to the wings. For most of the season, he was played in the wings or in midfield (where he was often lightweight).
LvG could certainly have done better by putting a consoling arm around the player - but to my mind, 'playing out of position' was only partly to blame. Ultimately, di maria was played in the wings/midfield for most of the season which is his role
Come on dawg. Owen is a legend just for scoring a late winner against Shitty in front of the Stretford end. Valencia had a bad season, never a disgrace or a lack of effort.
All your points make sense individually, but it doesn't on the whole hold up for me. Allow me to add my own SWAG* to this.
The fundamental problem is that Di Maria lacked the constitution--maybe the wisdom. He started out well. He looked noticeably focused at his unveiling, like he had a real sense of intent about him. He started the season murdering it. Yeah, he would take chances that didn't work out (usually shooting) but he wowed everyone with his crossing and medium range passing through the air. He did things we aren't used to seeing he looked the part. He had the skill, confidence and verve we expect of top United players.
We were tickled at how we got him. Rumor was he left Real after receiving a letter telling him they expected him to put their interests first and not risk further injury by playing in the World Cup final. He tore up the note. Not much longer he pulled on a United shirt and looked around Old Trafford with narrow eyes.
It's hard to land much better than he did: club status, league status and wage. He was in prime position to step up as a player.
Again, he started like he would...then he wilted. A run of bad form, some personal issues off the field, some injuries and finally an extended spell out of the team. People deal with stuff like this all the time--in and out of football.
The break in was undoubtedly traumatic. That sucks. If that happened to me, I'd be wrought over how my family would recover. Alone is an entirely different matter. Regardless, he had the means to cope. Hire security and therapy. Whatever. Figure it out if you want to. If you dont, just quit.
The cultural adjustment is only as hard as your comfort zone is small. I don't feel like he was some poor, ignorant refugee who'd found himself in a bizarre and cruel land. People make it out like he woke up like Fry in Futurama. He just looked around and said, "this is too much".
Ultimately he looked around again. He wasn't narrow-eyed this time. Rather, he was tired and scared. He quit, simply quit. Allet thathe ambition and desire evaporated. He wilted.
Should Woodward have seen this? With what little we know, that'd probably be harsh. There'd have been inherent cynicism if he had. A club like United should be in for available world class players. Maybe he wasn't the most needed player out there, but given his ability he was worth getting. United could afford him; the frugal days are of another era.
Could Van Gaal have done better? Probably. He seems to have a record of falling out with those that don't both for and fully adopt his methods. It's so comprehensive and thorough that we are still using "philosophy" as the nebulous catch all for this. It seems Di Maria didn't fit into this, but we won't know for a while--if ever. We're not hanging out on this forum because we kick it with Van Gaal when we aren't drinking with Ferguson.
For me Di Maria has the most fault in this. I can't get to thinking his failure was ordained by others. It's time for him to go. He showed why he would have been great for United and why he just won't.
Completely agree.
First, foremost and always blame yourself, no matter the circumstances no matter who else was involved. Own what you do and be responsible.
“I hope things go well and that we can win many titles. I know PSG won everything last season and every title and that is important for a big club.
“They reached the quarter-finals of the Champions League, so my objective is to arrive in Paris and help them through the quarter-final barrier, which they have struggled to do in the past two seasons.
“I will try to do the best I can to help the club reach those objectives and pass the barrier of the quarter-finals of the Champions League.”
I hope that we meet PSG in the quarter finals of the CL – he probably won't be playing for them by then as he will be on compassionate leave having realised that Paris life is no more secure or idyllic than life in Cheshire, and his wife will no doubt have identified Milan as a better family base for the following season – just saying, I'd like to play them!
I hope that we meet PSG in the quarter finals of the CL – he probably won't be playing for them by then as he will be on compassionate leave having realised that Paris life is no more secure or idyllic than life in Cheshire, and his wife will no doubt have identified Milan as a better family base for the following season – just saying, I'd like to play them!
Dream on!
EDIT: Guess I'd better qualify that as I'm not normally so abrupt and abrasive. I don't think either of the statements made above are as 100% clear cut as you think based on the fact that they edged out an average Chelsea in last years round of 16 CL knockout stage* and that they beat us this year in pre-season. You cannot draw parallels to league performances as the leagues are … leagues … apart! * and went on to lose 1:3 and 0:2 in the next stage (albeit to a fantastic Barca)
I think he has good reason to criticize LvG, though not blame him for everything. Clearly LvG did not help Di Maria to find his best form or encourage him to perform, and in the end, he benched him for Young...
Young played well, so it's not my intention to disparage him, but you should play your star players in the end, even when they hit a rough patch. A big part of the Di Maria failure was indeed LvG.
He was largely crap for us but it was an anomaly I guess. His performances last season aren't a good predictor for his performances at PSG. I think we could beat any team, inlcuding Barcelona, but the chance would be relatively small. For some reason people underrate PSG, they are very very strong, surely a top 5 team in the world right now.
He was largely crap for us but it was an anomaly I guess. His performances last season aren't a good predictor for his performances at PSG. I think we could beat any team, inlcuding Barcelona, but the chance would be relatively small. For some reason people underrate PSG, they are very very strong, surely a top 5 team in the world right now.
More likely the previous season was an anomaly. Last season seems to be much more in keeping with his career as a whole.
I do think PSG are a strong team fwiw. A lot stronger than us last season but hopefully the gap will be closed by the end of this transfer window. A lot will depend on how much longer Ibra can maintain his previous level now he's aged 33. Despite the result (and subsequent hysteria on here) I think we were evenly matched in pre-season.
I come in here and the first thing I see on top of the site is ADM just passed his medical. Makes me sick. Can we please just erase this player out of our history. fecking rat.
I'll never understand people who go searching through peoples post history, really fecking sad in my opinion. If you need to do that to try and win an argument then your argument is severely lacking substance in the first place. Did I not earlier in this very thread say that it's Human nature for 'the narrative to change'? I probably then focused on the positives since he was our player and now he isn't, I'll do the opposite.
More likely the previous season was an anomaly. Last season seems to be much more in keeping with his career as a whole.
I do think PSG are a strong team fwiw. Stronger than us, right now. Although a lot will depend on how much longer Ibra can maintain his previous level now he's aged 33.
I think ADM never was at Madrid as bad as he was at United. He was quite good for Benfica and this was the reason why Madrid bought him. He was generally good to excellent at Madrid. I expect him to be excellent for PSG, their style of play would give him more freedom. And maybe, just maybe, his wife would be more happy in Paris.
Good point about Ibra. I don't know whether they are so dependent on him, they were great against Chelsea after he was red carded but that's a very inconclusive evidence.
I think ADM never was at Madrid as bad as he was at United. He was quite good for Benfica and this was the reason why Madrid bought him. He was generally good to excellent at Madrid. I expect him to be excellent for PSG, their style of play would give him more freedom. And maybe, just maybe, his wife would be more happy in Paris.
Up until the season before last he was never particularly highly rated. A player who flattered to deceive. Basically what we saw in a United shirt. Productive but flaky as feck.
If his performances on the pitch really are linked to exactly how happy his wife is with the area they live then, well, PSG may well end up regretting taking such a pussy off our hands. Compare and contrast with dedicated professionals like Evra and Vidic who put up and shut up, never letting their spouse's moaning stop them from delivering for the team.
Yeah AdM doesn't come out of this well at all (the cnut! ),but I agree with that. LvG needs to take some responsibility.
Signed as the most expensive British transfer - what do we do? Play him in several positions and hardly ever in the "1 position" which resulted in us having to fork out that amount of money.
When you're paying that much for a player, you should be willing to do whatever it takes to accommodate them in their favorable position.
But yeah, he also needs to take blame for not having the bottle or fight in him. Good riddance.
They eked past Chelsea and were knocked out in the next round. It is hardly that much of a step up to PSG. The evidence is inconclusive for your argument IMO. They need to do better than sneaking past Chelsea once to be elevated genuinely being a 'step up'.
I would only feel resigned to being defeated against three teams in the CL this season and PSG are not one of them.
He was highly rated. Madrid paid a very large fee (at the time) after his outstanding performances for Benfica saw Maradona claim that he would be 'the next Argentinian superstar'. He actually scored some outrageous goals for Benfica and Fergie tried to sign him as well.
I know everyone is p!ssed off with the situation but that's not a good enough reason to write him off as a rubbish player. I am very disappointed he's gone he is a top class player and it is concerning why such a player chose to leave within 12 months of joining, I would hope it's because of personal reasons rather than professional, you don't sign a lucrative long term contract for a record fee just to leave in 12 months.
People are saying he's mentally weak, but watching his performances with Madrid and Argentina in previous seasons he never showed any signs of this, works his socks off, willing to play in numerous positions, determined and willing to try and make things happen all the time. It just doesn't make sense there has to be more to it then just getting scared because of an attempted burglary, these things happen in Rosario, Lisbon and Madrid.
You caught him , dxadel, did you change your name voluntarily?
