£150m

[dannyrhinos89]

Shaw - total waste of money seems to be made of glass, we should've signed Ricardo Rodriguez form Wolfsburg, would've been cheaper and he's a hell of a lot better also he is young still.

Rojo - just a squad player nothing special at all, would've preferred shawcross, he is far more confident, solid and more of a leader which is what we are missing in defence at the minute amongst other things.

Blind - probably the player that's impressed me most he isn't a world class player but his versatility will come in handy and for the price we paid I'm happy with him.

Herrera - we overpaid for him but he is arguably our best midfielder we have yet LVG doesn't give him many minutes which is beyond baffling. Needs to start more matches.

Di Maria - like Herrera we overpaid but he is a quality player when played in his proper position he is lacking support from our players and manager, you only have to see what damage he did at Madrid and for Argentina when we eventually/hopefully sign better players and get rid of the dross we will see a much better Di Maria.

Falcao - total flop, looks like he is running with lead boots, he is just past it now and there's no way we should even consider signing him. We wouldn't have needed to sign a new striker because I would've liked to keep welbeck and chicharito than bring him in.

 

[Sereques]

I guess Chelsea, City need six new proper players too.

 

[Sereques]

12 months or even two seasons, we still need more world class players to raise the standards and create more rivalry within the first eleven.

Remember signing Robin van Persie ? Instant jump of quality and outscoring City in 2012/2013.

The point is give the players we bought time to settle before you jump into conclusion that we need another six.

 

[Van Piorsing]

The point is give the players we bought time to settle before you jump into conclusion that we need another six.

It's not a conclusion. It's a fact and responsibility this club can't escape from this time. We need to continue raising standards by simply signing better players.

In case you didn't notice, we lack depth on both sides of the pitch defensively and offensively. We'll also say goodbye to at least three players in the summer. The so called settling in process has nothing to do with the matter of having squad able to reach success in England and Europe which we should aim already season ago with bigger and better group of players.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Why did everyone say Moyes saying he needed players was just an excuse and now after bringing in 6 players needing players is an excuse for LVG ?

 

[senorgregster]

Not sure why Van Gaal draws so much ire. We've been piss poor for years. I mean:

Mata
Fellaini
Obertan
Young
Kagawa
Zaha
Powell
Bebe
Obertan
Valencia
Jones
Smalling
Buttner

Some of our questionable signings over the years off the top of my head, hardly vintage stuff is it? Only De Gea and RVP stick out as good signings. If you want to go even further back then Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani don't look too great either.

I was thinking the same thing as I read through the thread and came to your post. Just looking over the last 10 years we have spent poorly on a lot of signings. There's a lot on the list that were very expensive for potential that has not materialized. Having said that, every single club has this problem. Sure you'll get the occasional pearl but most are misses.

Some are rating the players out of 10. Not sure if mentioned in the thread yet (still reading) but the ratings are based on so few performances with no consistency in the team. Its like we are in a perpetual pre-season where players are getting their fitness back.

For me, Shaw is like Smalling/Jones when we got them - unknown but with lots of potential. We have to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he does better than they have. I think our approach of signing players like him at these prices has to change because we are not getting good value.

Falcao - Simply not fit yet and impossible to know how good he can be at this stage. Who knows if he ever will be fit again. I'd love him to stay if we can get a half decent deal where it would be worth a gamble. I know I'd rather gamble 30M on him than say 27M on Shaw.

Herrara/Blind - Both look like excellent buys for me based on the few games where they have been fit. Time will tell if they can play consistently.

Di Maria - Had a great start and then injuries/playing out of position has thwarted progress. I think he will come good again as he gets full fitness and a run of games in the appropriate position.

Rojo - Done very well. Again, unclear if he is a long term prospect. I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling like I did when Rio/Vidic were on top of their game. To me this is by far our weakest link (yeah I know we don't let in many goals). Address this position and then in my mind we move from a rebuild stage into the tweak stage.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

Shaw - total waste of money seems to be made of glass, we should've signed Ricardo Rodriguez form Wolfsburg, would've been cheaper and he's a hell of a lot better also he is young still.

Rojo - just a squad player nothing special at all, would've preferred shawcross, he is far more confident, solid and more of a leader which is what we are missing in defence at the minute amongst other things.

Blind - probably the player that's impressed me most he isn't a world class player but his versatility will come in handy and for the price we paid I'm happy with him.

Herrera - we overpaid for him but he is arguably our best midfielder we have yet LVG doesn't give him many minutes which is beyond baffling. Needs to start more matches.

Di Maria - like Herrera we overpaid but he is a quality player when played in his proper position he is lacking support from our players and manager, you only have to see what damage he did at Madrid and for Argentina when we eventually/hopefully sign better players and get rid of the dross we will see a much better Di Maria.

Falcao - total flop, looks like he is running with lead boots, he is just past it now and there's no way we should even consider signing him. We wouldn't have needed to sign a new striker because I would've liked to keep welbeck and chicharito than bring him in.

Agree with this, we should have spent the money in a much better manner by bringing in players which instantly improved us. Only Di Maria and Blind have improved us and the rest just seem like a massive waste of money (Not sure about Shaw yet though).

IMO we should have signed Kroos, Vidal and Benatia, and in hindsight Sanchez and the money would be so much better spent and made our first 11 better than both Chelsea's and City's.

----------------------------------------De Gea------------------------------------
-----------Rafael--------------Smalling--------Benatia-------------Evra--------
------------------------------------Vidal-------Kroos----------------------------
--------------------Sanchez-------------Rooney/Mata--------------Welbeck/Mata---------
-------------------------------------------Van Persie-----------------------------

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The well documented sum of money we spent in the summer, which is an astonishing amount of cash.

Yes, there's supposed to be a bedding in period - Van Gaal himself talked about three months - but my worry is that, performance wise, we seem to be regressing.

Not one of our signings can be marked down as an unqualified success. I'm at a loss as to how we've spent such a fortune but gone no closer to resolving the long term problems.

Do you trust Van Gaal to go on another spending spree?

posts like this do bug me a touch.

Its alright saying we spent £150m but the amount of experience we lost.. Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs was far more damaging than £150m worth of talent can attone for.

We have lost leadership on the pitch. Van gaal has done well if you consider what he lost.

 

[soap]

Shaw - total waste of money seems to be made of glass, we should've signed Ricardo Rodriguez form Wolfsburg, would've been cheaper and he's a hell of a lot better also he is young still.

Rojo - just a squad player nothing special at all, would've preferred shawcross, he is far more confident, solid and more of a leader which is what we are missing in defence at the minute amongst other things.

To call a 19 year old a waste of money after a few months is extremely premature. You could be right about Rojo, his form so far is indeed that of a soquad player. time will tell, he's new to English football. Even if he turn out to be a squad player he didnt cost much. Shawcross though?! Admittedly I've not seen more than 3 or 4 games of his this season, unless he's improved tenfold then no way.

I agree with the rest. Genuinely wouldnt mind seeing Hernandez come back

 

[Getsme]

posts like this do bug me a touch.

Its alright saying we spent £150m but the amount of experience we lost.. Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs was far more damaging than £150m worth of talent can attone for.

We have lost leadership on the pitch. Van gaal has done well if you consider what he lost.

We lost leadership on the pitch, thats it.

 

[Feed Me]

posts like this do bug me a touch.

Its alright saying we spent £150m but the amount of experience we lost.. Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs was far more damaging than £150m worth of talent can attone for.

We have lost leadership on the pitch. Van gaal has done well if you consider what he lost.

Arguments like this do bug me a touch.

All four players in bold were getting towards the end of their fêted careers and you could argue that our reliance on the old stagers and failure to replace them had in fact left us in the mire. None of them were useful in arresting our slide to 7th in the table, so I'd suggest they were all fit for the scrap heap.

 

[Feed Me]

We lost leadership on the pitch, thats it.

Leadership - Ferdinand leaking our line ups to the press and Vidic ditching us mid season.

The likes of Giggs, Evra and the above mentioned duo were past it and the club was right to cut them adrift. Their experience has cost us because we'd kept them around when they should have been replaced.

 

[El-Manos]

Shaw - total waste of money seems to be made of glass, we should've signed Ricardo Rodriguez form Wolfsburg, would've been cheaper and he's a hell of a lot better also he is young still.

Rojo - just a squad player nothing special at all, would've preferred shawcross, he is far more confident, solid and more of a leader which is what we are missing in defence at the minute amongst other things.

Blind - probably the player that's impressed me most he isn't a world class player but his versatility will come in handy and for the price we paid I'm happy with him.

Herrera - we overpaid for him but he is arguably our best midfielder we have yet LVG doesn't give him many minutes which is beyond baffling. Needs to start more matches.

Di Maria - like Herrera we overpaid but he is a quality player when played in his proper position he is lacking support from our players and manager, you only have to see what damage he did at Madrid and for Argentina when we eventually/hopefully sign better players and get rid of the dross we will see a much better Di Maria.

Falcao - total flop, looks like he is running with lead boots, he is just past it now and there's no way we should even consider signing him. We wouldn't have needed to sign a new striker because I would've liked to keep welbeck and chicharito than bring him in.

That's where I stopped reading.

 

[Getsme]

Leadership - Ferdinand leaking our line ups to the press and Vidic ditching us mid season.

The likes of Giggs, Evra and the above mentioned duo were past it and the club was right to cut them adrift. Their experience has cost us because we'd kept them around when they should have been replaced.

Experience is only a good thing when the player can show it on the pitch, as you said, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic and Giggs could be the worst players on the pitch last season, and it was pretty obvious they were finished at United. However I feel we miss leadership on the pitch, especially at the back. I don’t blame our current players for this, I blame the management for not bringing someone in when it was an obvious weakness.

 

[Kidders]

I really don't get why fans get hung up about how much money is spent on players, 30 years ago players progressed through a kind of pyramid system, proper scouts (remember them ?) would indentify players and the best reached the summit in exchange for what ever their clubs could sell them for, introduce mass media coverage, TV contracts, sponsorship, players agents etc, and you have inflated fees and wages, United have always paid top dollar regardless of the era, we now live in the era where top dollar is beyond comprehension, I don't care how much a player costs or earns, I am more concerned about getting the right player, a United player.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Arguments like this do bug me a touch.

All four players in bold were getting towards the end of their fêted careers and you could argue that our reliance on the old stagers and failure to replace them had in fact left us in the mire. None of them were useful in arresting our slide to 7th in the table, so I'd suggest they were all fit for the scrap heap.

If by that you mean valid arguments then fine.

If you can't see the value of leadership on the pitch I am stunned.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

To call a 19 year old a waste of money after a few months is extremely premature. You could be right about Rojo, his form so far is indeed that of a soquad player. time will tell, he's new to English football. Even if he turn out to be a squad player he didnt cost much. Shawcross though?! Admittedly I've not seen more than 3 or 4 games of his this season, unless he's improved tenfold then no way.

I agree with the rest. Genuinely wouldnt mind seeing Hernandez come back

I guess it is yes but the point I was making is there were more experienced LBs available that are better than shaw and would cost half as much. The main one being Rodriguez he is absolutely quality and would've been a perfect replacement for Evra they're pretty much like for like but Rodriguez has more of an attacking game too. Last season he had 5 goals and 9 assists, this year so far he has 3 goals and 2 assists.

 

[Theonas]

When will fans learn that you can't go from an average team like we were last year to a winning machine that plays sexy football just by buying players? It is really getting tiring this over simplification of football. It is always the coach is shite or the players are not "world class". Someone mentioned unqualified success transfers but I am thinking how many in the entire of Europe could you say that about last summer? I can only think of Sanchez, Fabregas, Costa and Kroos. Yet every summer, all we keep hearing is that our problems are simply down to transfers. It's really time to wake up and understand that transfers of established stars complement a team, make it stronger but does not actually turn a team from shIte to great in 6 months.

 

[Ødegaard]

Shaw - total waste of money seems to be made of glass, we should've signed Ricardo Rodriguez form Wolfsburg, would've been cheaper and he's a hell of a lot better also he is young still.

Rojo - just a squad player nothing special at all, would've preferred shawcross, he is far more confident, solid and more of a leader which is what we are missing in defence at the minute amongst other things.

Blind - probably the player that's impressed me most he isn't a world class player but his versatility will come in handy and for the price we paid I'm happy with him.

Herrera - we overpaid for him but he is arguably our best midfielder we have yet LVG doesn't give him many minutes which is beyond baffling. Needs to start more matches.

Di Maria - like Herrera we overpaid but he is a quality player when played in his proper position he is lacking support from our players and manager, you only have to see what damage he did at Madrid and for Argentina when we eventually/hopefully sign better players and get rid of the dross we will see a much better Di Maria.

Falcao - total flop, looks like he is running with lead boots, he is just past it now and there's no way we should even consider signing him. We wouldn't have needed to sign a new striker because I would've liked to keep welbeck and chicharito than bring him in.

Wow wow wow.
You are calling Shaw, a 19-year old english international a total waste of money based on him being injured for a while for the first time in his career?
Clearly your love for Ricardo Rodriguez is making you much harsher (and jumping the gun) on Shaw. Not that there is anything wrong with rating Rodriguez of course.

Agree that Falcao has been a flop, and that Herrera should play more often and that Di Maria is not used correctly at the moment though.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

That's where I stopped reading.

A bit late I'd say..

 

[Speak]

When will fans learn that you can't go from an average team like we were last year to a winning machine that plays sexy football just by buying players? It is really getting tiring this over simplification of football. It is always the coach is shite or the players are not "world class". Someone mentioned unqualified success transfers but I am thinking how many in the entire of Europe could you say that about last summer? I can only think of Sanchez, Fabregas, Costa and Kroos. Yet every summer, all we keep hearing is that our problems are simply down to transfers. It's really time to wake up and understand that transfers of established stars complement a team, make it stronger but does not actually turn a team from shIte to great in 6 months.

You sound surprised.

Quite a few convinced themselves that it was all down to the manager last season. Once we got in some midfielders and a 'top' manager it would be pretty much sorted.

 

[Feed Me]

If by that you mean valid arguments then fine.

If you can't see the value of leadership on the pitch I am stunned.

Of course I see the value of leadership on the pitch, but I genuinely don't see that as a remotely pressing issue for United.

My argument in relation to the four players you mentioned is that they were all seriously on the wane in their last season and any leadership qualities they may have displayed were completely undermined by their lack of legs. We slipped to 7th in the league, an unparalleled failure for United in the Premier League era, so I'd argue that leadership wasn't as important an ingredient as you suggest.

What's more, in the case of Vidic, who jumped ship mid-season, and Ferdinand (allegedly), who spent all season leaking to the media, their actions hardly smacked of leadership. Both players have been average-to-bad at their new clubs, again exposing your leadership argument as a red herring. If you can't run anymore, leadership will achieve nothing in football. Having relics in an era when the game is as fast as it has ever been is doomed to fail.

The problem, in a nutshell, is the static and paceless nature of our play. Until LvG figures out a way to infuse some real tempo into our play, we're going to be a drag to watch.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Of course I see the value of leadership on the pitch, but I genuinely don't see that as a remotely pressing issue for United.

My argument in relation to the four players you mentioned is that they were all seriously on the wane in their last season and any leadership qualities they may have displayed were completely undermined by their lack of legs. We slipped to 7th in the league, an unparalleled failure for United in the Premier League era, so I'd argue that leadership wasn't as important an ingredient as you suggest.

What's more, in the case of Vidic, who jumped ship mid-season, and Ferdinand (allegedly), who spent all season leaking to the media, their actions hardly smacked of leadership. Both players have been average-to-bad at their new clubs, again exposing your leadership argument as a red herring. If you can't run anymore, leadership will achieve nothing in football. Having relics in an era when the game is as fast as it has ever been is doomed to fail.

The problem, in a nutshell, is the static and paceless nature of our play. Until LvG figures out a way to infuse some real tempo into our play, we're going to be a drag to watch.

On the pitch their ability was nowhere near their past standards. Unboubtably. Vidic in particular looked miles away from the beast we saw in 2008/2009 who made John Terry look like a Sunday league player.

I'm thinking more the influence in the dressing room and on the pitch. When the defense lost a bit of concentration, Vidic could shout and people would listen. If you had Smalling or Evans shouting at you, are you really going to listen as much?

We lost our captain, our vice captain, our vice vice captain and our vice vice vice captain. If that had no affect whatsoever on the team and didn't set us back at all then something is wrong. I think it's no coincidence van Gaal is targeting players described as 'Leaders' because it seems there's nobody on the pitch to kick us up the arses when standards slip. Rooney is labelled as the 'leader' type but I don't think he is quite as influential on his team mates as his past captains.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

Just saw this posted on MUST and didn't know where to put it.

One word stood out above all others …

We had a "philosophy" long before LvG rolled up

" data-width="466"


Wish people would've listened … how different things could've been!

 

[Sarni]

Why did everyone say Moyes saying he needed players was just an excuse and now after bringing in 6 players needing players is an excuse for LVG ?

It's not. Current squad is good enough to finish 3rd, with the addition of 3 more players that really should have been brought before now it ought to be good enough to challenge for the league.

The way people underrate our team is ridiculous.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not. Current squad is good enough to finish 3rd, with the addition of 3 more players that really should have been brought before now it ought to be good enough to challenge for the league.

The way people underrate our team is ridiculous.

I would say quite the opposite.

When Moyes took over everyone (including you?) was saying that the squad he took over was good enough to comfortably finish top four, even without any new additions.

Since then we've added Fellaini, Mata, Di Maria, Hererra, Shaw, Falcao and Rojo and we'll be fighting tooth and nail to cling onto a top four slot this season. In a season where all our top four rivals have had a disastrous start to their league campaign.

We're also at least two world class signings short of competing for the league next season, probably more. How does that tally with this idea that Moyes inherited an excellent squad, capable of finishing in the top four without any need for major investment?

Seems to me our squad is overrated far more often than underrated.

 

[Sarni]

I would say quite the opposite.

When Moyes took over everyone (including you?) was saying that the squad he took over was good enough to comfortably finish top four, even without any new additions.

Since then we've added Fellaini, Mata, Di Maria, Hererra, Shaw, Falcao and Rojo and we'll be fighting tooth and nail to cling onto a top four slot this season. In a season where all our top four rivals have had a disastrous start to their league campaign.

We're also at least two world class signings short of competing for the league next season, probably more. How does that tally with this idea that Moyes inherited an excellent squad, capable of finishing in the top four without any need for major investment?

Seems to me our squad is overrated far more often than underrated.

Moyes had a very good squad capable of finishing top 4, I stand by it. It wasn't weaker than Liverpool team that almost won the league, it was about as good as Arsenal's team as well and wasn't even far from Chelsea last season. City had a better team.

Our team right now should be good enough to comfortably finish 3rd and at a push should be able to compete for the league. Not when they're messed around with weird formations and players playing out of position, or a manager who tells them they're crap and should try and make it hard for Newcastle. Poor management is what has cost us these past 18 months. Ferguson would probably be winning the league at a canter with this lot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Moyes had a very good squad capable of finishing top 4, I stand by it. It wasn't weaker than Liverpool team that almost won the league, it was about as good as Arsenal's team as well and wasn't even far from Chelsea last season. City had a better team.

Our team right now should be good enough to comfortably finish 3rd and at a push should be able to compete for the league. Not when they're messed around with weird formations and players playing out of position, or a manager who tells them they're crap and should try and make it hard for Newcastle. Poor management is what has cost us these past 18 months. Ferguson would probably be winning the league at a canter with this lot.

Couldn't disagree more. Fergie last won the league despite the squad, rather than because of them. With important contributions from waning world class stars and nobody capable of taking their place. I disagreed with you last season and I think I've been proved right since. Nowt so blind as those who will not see...

 

[Sarni]

Couldn't disagree more. Fergie last won the league despite the squad, rather than because of them. With important contributions from waning world class stars and nobody capable of taking their place. I disagreed with you last season and I think I've been proved right since. Nowt so blind as those who will not see...

Far from it. I'll stand by the opinion that it's tactics and decision making which have cost us this season.

Rooney
Mata/Januzaj Herrera Di Maria
Blind Carrick/Fellaini
Shaw Rojo Smalling Rafael/Valencia
De Gea

It's an excellent team with hardly any glaring weaknesses.

 

[Godfather]

What's with the whole Rojo hate? Guy has been our best CB this season and ppl call him nothing more than a squad player

 

[bucky]

Far from it. I'll stand by the opinion that it's tactics and decision making which have cost us this season.

Rooney
Mata/Januzaj Herrera Di Maria
Blind Carrick/Fellaini
Shaw Rojo Smalling Rafael/Valencia
De Gea

It's an excellent team with hardly any glaring weaknesses.

It's hardly excellent. I'm with you that Moyes should have gotten us into top 4 with the squad he had, but nothing more. Van Gaal should be doing better than he is currently, but all things considered 3rd place is probably the most we can hope for this season.

 

[Sarni]

It's hardly excellent. I'm with you that Moyes should have gotten us into top 4 with the squad he had, but nothing more. Van Gaal should be doing better than he is currently, but all things considered 3rd place is probably the most we can hope for this season.

It's not worse than what Chelsea and City can put out there as their first team IMO.

 

[luckyspurs]

It's not worse than what Chelsea and City can put out there as their first team IMO.

Would take De Gea, Smalling and Di Maria over Courtois, Cahill and Willian, but apart from that Chelsea have better players in every position.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not worse than what Chelsea and City can put out there as their first team IMO.

Bloody hell. The delusion is strong is this one.

 

[itso 7]

I would say quite the opposite.

When Moyes took over everyone (including you?) was saying that the squad he took over was good enough to comfortably finish top four, even without any new additions.

Since then we've added Fellaini, Mata, Di Maria, Hererra, Shaw, Falcao and Rojo and we'll be fighting tooth and nail to cling onto a top four slot this season. In a season where all our top four rivals have had a disastrous start to their league campaign.

We're also at least two world class signings short of competing for the league next season, probably more. How does that tally with this idea that Moyes inherited an excellent squad, capable of finishing in the top four without any need for major investment?

Seems to me our squad is overrated far more often than underrated.

This is where things all went wrong for me because our squad, I still maintain it was good enough, was on a knife edge and decisions needed to be made to rid the team of it's inherent weaknesses before the pillar that was propping it began to buckle (an ageing defence). You look at teams like City, Real, Chelsea and Arsenal their defences aren't that much better than ours but it's either their midfield shields them well, their attack is so good that they can outscore the majority of their opponents or their managers devise a style of play that hides their individual weaknesses but we had a one man midfield whose weaknesses were being hidden by a strong defence for so long and something should have been done in the summer of 2013 to ensure that the midfield and defence's standard was raised up by a notch or two. The decision to do nothing about either for the windows that he had effectively cost Moyes his job. If he had gotten Strootman, Baines and Garay there is no way that team would have failed to reach top four, even with him at the helm.
The other thing that is dragging us down are decisions being made by our managers both in the windows and in the management of the squad. LVG has, at his disposal, a very potent attacking force by anyone's standard but he is actively looking to minimize it's impact because of a one off meltdown we suffered at Liecester four months ago. We know that when we have Herrera we create more, with Fellaini we are difficult to play against and that the RVP/Falcao combo hasn't given us that much joy and individually they aren't pulling up trees but why does our manager act like we can't have the two of Fellaini and Herrera in the same side and only look to play Rooney + one of Falcao/RVP upfront? The issues are too many to mention but whilst Moyes could be blamed for dithering around and/or being unlucky that his arrival coincided with that of Woodward, LVG has simply shot himself in the foot. These players under a manager who is not looking at the size of reputations or stuck on revitalising a dead formation which suits none of our top players is easily the third best in the Premiership.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Would take De Gea, Smalling and Di Maria over Courtois, Cahill and Willian, but apart from that Chelsea have better players in every position.

On this season's form, Di Maria's got no chance of getting in that Chelsea team and if Smalling did get picked ahead of Cahill it would be purely hypothetical, as he'd still spend most of the season out injured.

 

[Sarni]

Bloody hell. The delusion is strong is this one.

All right, I've probably forgotten Chelsea and City are supposed to be 10 times stronger than us. Hell, Chelsea's team was considered as good as ours or stronger by many on here even when they were finishing 15 odd points behind barely making top 4, all at full strength with a good manager.

 

[bosnian_red]

Would take De Gea, Smalling and Di Maria over Courtois, Cahill and Willian, but apart from that Chelsea have better players in every position.

Include Rooney in there but yeah I'd probably agree... With city I'd take Herrera/carrick/blind over fernandinho or Fernando or any midfielder bar toure too.
Still, its not a bad team at all if we put out the right players. One top center back and it'd be on par with a few title winning teams we've had.

 

[Sarni]

On this season's form, Di Maria's got no chance of getting in that Chelsea team and if Smalling did get picked ahead of Cahill it would be purely hypothetical, as he'd still spend most of the season out injured.

Spinning the argument so it looks good in your favour, eh? I never said that this team is as good as theirs in current form and shape, never even came close to it, I actually mentioned that I feel that our team would be competitive IF they'd been properly managed which hasn't been the case for the past 18 months. There's no way that Di Maria at his best wouldn't make Chelsea team (or any team in the world arguably), no matter how much you might not like him.

I don't think Costa is much better than Rooney at all, if he's better at all. I don't think a trio of Mata, Herrera and Di Maria is worse than a trio of Hazard, Oscar and Willian either. Fabregas is better than any midfielder we have but in Blind, Fellaini and Carrick we have players who can match Matic as well. A set of full backs in Shaw and Rafael, when they can stay fit, is every bit as good as what they have too IMO. Smalling and Rojo haven't played much together and they're probably not going to be as solid as Terry and Cahill in the short term but there's potential there. De Gea is better than Courtois.

You'd need all our players to be in good physical condition and top form for that to be anywhere near the case but personnel wise it's an excellent squad.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

All right, I've probably forgotten Chelsea and City are supposed to be 10 times stronger than us. Hell, Chelsea's team was considered as good as ours or stronger by many on here even when they were finishing 15 odd points behind barely making top 4, all at full strength with a good manager.

Ever since Chelsea won the lottery, they would usually have a best XI that was, man for man, better than ours but we were able to finish ahead of them because we had a brilliant manager, a deep squad and a spine of players that was as good as any other team around. So good that standards didn't drop signifcantly even when the rest of the XI wasn't up to scratch. Playing alongside the best players in the world can lift the performances of lesser lights. That's how Evans played a part in that amazing run of clean sheets when Ferdinand started getting problems with his back.

Where's that spine now? Where are these world class talents in their prime that the squad players can slot in alongside and raise their game? They've all got over the hill and/or left, that's what happened. Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra are the obvious losses but people are forgetting how heavily we relied on Giggs and Scholes for creativity, right up until the point they weren't physically capable of contributing any more. Then you had defensive stalwarts like O'Shea and Brown. Not the best around but seasoned pros you could always rely on to dig deep and steady the ship, defensively, when we were up against it. We've been crying out for that kind of defensive nous this season and last.

Right now, Rooney is arguably the only United player in his physical prime who is definitively of the quality required to win Premier League titles. Maybe Mata too? But god knows his star has waned since Mourinho found him surplus to requirements at Chelsea. There's not another player in our squad you can say that about. Which is a big fecking deal. Di Maria? Hopefully. Still has it all to prove and there's no reason he couldn't turn out more of an Ozil than a Sanchez (which is how it looks right now)

Buying the league's best striker (and having Carrick play out of his skin) managed to eke one last league title out of a squad that was blatantly deeply flawed. Those chickens have come home to roost now and even if you could name a best XI (I don't think you could) there would be major doubts over each player in that line up. To an extent where you'd be unsure about all but one of them (Rooney) being first XI in their given position for a title challenging team for the foreseeable future. Keep burying your head in the sand all you want and keep blaming the managers but - like it or not - you're supporting a club that has barely even started the huge overhaul required before we can even start to dream about winning the league again.