Shaw - 4/10
Blind 7/10
Di Maria 4/10
Falcao 3/10
Rojo 7/10
Herrera 6/10
Would anyone drastically change that?
Blind 7/10
Di Maria 4/10
Falcao 3/10
Rojo 7/10
Herrera 6/10
Would anyone drastically change that?
£150m
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With the added benefit of not having lost the third best footballer in the world..
Players who are supposed to be "world class" like Di Maria and Falcao should be able to seamlessly slot into a side and thrive. Shaw has an excuse in my eyes since he's 19 and this is a huge step up for him but the other players we bought have played in some of the best or biggest clubs in Europe and they look hopeless at times.
Since SAF left both managers have not covered themselves in glory and none of the players we brought in for total sum of over £220m can be labelled as a success or it's doubtful the majority of them even deserve to be in the starting eleven.
We have spent money really badly and the main problem is it's been on players we didn't need or don't play in their best positions, when you look at the other players we could have bought and how far we are from having a well balanced and successful team it is actually hard to take in. I don't think any team has ever spent that amount and ended up in such a mess.
We have spent money really badly and the main problem is it's been on players we didn't need or don't play in their best positions, when you look at the other players we could have bought and how far we are from having a well balanced and successful team it is actually hard to take in. I don't think any team has ever spent that amount and ended up in such a mess.
Mourinho has a track record of spotting deficiencies in his squad and rectifying them.
In comparison, our summer business was scattergun.
Astonishingly, £150m and six players later, I don't think we plugged one of the key holes, which is piss poor.
Shaw, Blind, Rojo, Herrera and Di Maria will all, in time, prove to be very successful signings.
Falcao won't be here beyond this season.
Falcao won't be here beyond this season.
Definitely. But then after Madrid, Mourinho wouldn't 'okay' signing Shaw because the club want him. He'd need assurance that his more senior target would be signed instead.
It would have required the manager to remain at the centre of all transfer dealings. And it doesn't seem the club want to operate that way any more.
Last season Moyes overhauling the scouting- and the iPads didn't help - brought much derision. Towards the end Fergie's record in the market began to slip and the last two managers haven't stepped up, so perhaps the need to overhaul recruitment wasn't such a laughing matter.
In what way?
In the case of Shaw, or other similar young players like Herrera, what's the point in the club signing them as ones for the future if LvG doesn't fancy them?
May as well have opted for the senior pro options instead - Luis and Fabregas.
Our spending hasn't even been bad. Five out of eight of the signings look like they'll be considered successes based on what they've shown so far (not including Origi in our signings). £40m was spent badly (Lovren, Lambert, Balotelli).
Shaw - 5/10
Blind - 8/10
Di Maria - 5/10
Falcao - 3/10
Rojo - 5/10
Herrera - 5/10
I think Shaw, Blind and Di Maria will be really good players for you long term though and I think Herrera will end up as a decent enough squad player for you too.
The club's wanted Shaw and Herrera for years.
They aren't bad players, but they, ideally' (especially when they cost so much) need to be the manager's pick. Okaying them is one thing. Knowing their game properly and having a plan for them is another thing.
I could not imagine Mourinho coming here and 'okaying' Shaw and Herrera at nearly £60 million. No way.
Not sure why Van Gaal draws so much ire. We've been piss poor for years. I mean:
Mata
Fellaini
Obertan
Young
Kagawa
Zaha
Powell
Bebe
Obertan
Valencia
Jones
Smalling
Buttner
Some of our questionable signings over the years off the top of my head, hardly vintage stuff is it? Only De Gea and RVP stick out as good signings. If you want to go even further back then Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani don't look too great either.
Mata
Fellaini
Obertan
Young
Kagawa
Zaha
Powell
Bebe
Obertan
Valencia
Jones
Smalling
Buttner
Some of our questionable signings over the years off the top of my head, hardly vintage stuff is it? Only De Gea and RVP stick out as good signings. If you want to go even further back then Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani don't look too great either.
Fergie's record in the market, post Ronaldo, was borderline negligent to be perfectly honest.
I'd have to agree with most of that. Think Shaw could be a little higher, but with his injuries it's more difficult to justify.
We bought what was available to us, no CL cost us a few players imo.
People also forget players need time to bed in, Shaw, Herrera, and Di Maria will probably be flying next season, Blind is what he is (calm if limited), Rojo is no worse than our other CB's, and Falcao will come good if he stays, so he didn't do much wrong imo, other than not buying that non existent top CB, or two.
I really don't give a shit that you're to LVG what nahelai was to Moyes. It has been awful so far this season, no other way around it.
And after 150m of money spend, we are - at best - only marginally better than last season.
I think our attitude towards agents hurt us the most in his latter years. Pogba and Hazard definitely spring to mind.
The lad you've bought at RB hasn't made much of an impression and Can has had a 'meh' impact so far. Lallana has been hit and miss like Di Maria, though he didn't cost as much. The LB has been lively apart from a few brainfarts, while Markovic is starting to get to grips with things. Definitely a mixed bag overall.
In terms of how you've rated our players, Blind should be a 6 or 7 and I'd go a touch higher for Rojo. I honestly don't think it's possible to rate Shaw and Herrera due to a mixture of injuries and very strange man management.
We won't see the best of Di Maria until this ridiculous experimentation with his position ends.
Di Maria if a bit erratic at times on another day could have had an assist, and goal, he was at least looking to play the ball forward so i'd put him on 6/10, Falcao also a little harsh as the service was terrible, Blind overrated.
I think the thing about Sir Alex was that, at worst, the player wasn't as good as he hoped, but he knew enough about them to know how to use them within the squad. At worst they still had the mentality he was after and had value in that way.
Same could be said of Wenger. That's the beauty of having a manager who controls almost all of the transfer dealings. At the moment we seem to be mixing manager picks with PR signings and long term targets all in one.
Too right, because if the manager doesn't want them, they shouldn't come.
Disappointed that 'hard line' LvG didn't make more of a fuss to make sure he got the players he wanted.
It has been as crap as our signings.
Agree with this. I think tat Herrera is our best midfielder but for whatever reasons, Van Gaal seems to not rate/like him. Which is kind of weird considering that he is good on everything. Someone mentioned today that Herrera seems to make some risky passes and that might be the reason.
Anyway, only Blind so far has been a success. The others have been from poor to bad.
Your spending is geared towards a plan. The players fit within the profile of the style you want, and being able to develop to improve together. Ours is muddled. Shaw is one for the future, Di Maria is our marquee signing to get back to the top level, Falcao was a statement, Blind and Rojo came to prominence in the World Cup and Herrera was identified by the previous managers, cost a lot and while looks a good players it's fair to say he wasn't that well known.
With all due respect to Sir Alex his judgement of players deteriorated severely in his latter years and he relied more on his man management skills than focussing on building an actually structured team. He went years ignoring midfield and he's on record saying he bought Young to replace Giggs, that's just crazy. The latter years under SAF were weird, we played really poor stuff but his mere presence was monumental.
Exeter 0-0 Manchester United
Howard, Phil Neville, Brown, Pique, Spector,Eagles (Ronaldo 63), Djemba-Djemba, Jones, Miller (Scholes 63),Bellion (Smith 76), Richardson
Cambridge United 0-0 Manchester United
De Gea, Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Blind (Shaw - 86' ), Carrick, Fellaini (Herrera - 67' ), Januzaj, Di María, Falcao, Wilson (van Persie - 67')
And I thought that game was bad...
Howard, Phil Neville, Brown, Pique, Spector,Eagles (Ronaldo 63), Djemba-Djemba, Jones, Miller (Scholes 63),Bellion (Smith 76), Richardson
Cambridge United 0-0 Manchester United
De Gea, Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Blind (Shaw - 86' ), Carrick, Fellaini (Herrera - 67' ), Januzaj, Di María, Falcao, Wilson (van Persie - 67')
And I thought that game was bad...
Yeah, that's all true.
I didn't this summer, i don't know.
See my post in the Liverpool thread if you want to continue the discussion.
I think your best midfielder is Carrick by a country mile. I agree with others though that it's harsh to judge Shaw at this point.
I disagree with this statement. I don't think our signings have been crap at all, I think we simply didn't buy in positions we desperately needing reinforcing (except CM of course). The players we have brought in has made us stronger, but the issue is that while we improve one part of the squad, it then highlights the weakness of another area. Hopefully this can be addressed in the Summer when/if we make CL football. I also think that we've relied on our younger players in the squad stepping up and being first team players and frankly they don't cut it.
Jones is a very good defender but his distribution is terrible. Rafael is a very good right back but his injury history makes it impossible to pencil him down long term. Januzaj for whatever reason simply hasn't stepped up this Season, be that slacking in training or not being in form, who knows. Jones and Rafa were meant to be rocks in our first team while Januzaj was our bright light. I think it's a combination of a Manager trying to get used to a new league, a group of new signings adjusting to a new league and a group of current squad players simply under performing.
I don't think it's as simple as saying "the manager is crap" or "our signings are crap". It's a combination of factors and I think United need to accept that short term we're going to struggle. Patience is the key for me and I think we need to play the long game and stick with the manager and his vision.
Herrera 5/10? Whenever he's played he's been brilliant and has changed a lot of games for us this season. Too harsh on Shaw in my opinion, he's struggled at wing back and hasn't been anything special going forward but he's an awesome defender.
I reckon Rojo has improved lately and will be a good player in the long run.
Give Jose the other 150 million runs away
Even if some of this squad improve and step we need a RB, at least one centre half, at least one midfielder, at least one winger and a striker which is unbelievable given we have spent so much money.
Well, I think that only Blind has really been a success so far. I think that on the right infrastrucure all players would have been playing much better (bar Rojo who I haven't seen much before and hasn't ever convinced me for us) but for whatever reasons it isn't happening. It is unexplainable why Herrera isn't playing, Shaw has been overpayed by quite a lot but isn't performing as good as last year, Di Maria looks more like a 6m player rather than a 60m and Falcao, the less we talk the better.
Now, it is very possible that some (all) of them might improve and ultimatelly be good signings. As it is possible, that it won't happen. But so far, they have performed below any acceptable level.
Completely disagree about Jones, never rated him. He also looks the least intelligient player I have ever seen.
Agree about Rafa's injury but I think that going into the new season with only 2 full backs, one heavily injury prone while the other a new signings who is only 18 years old was quite a bit madness. And then, when they're fit he anyway prefers Valencia or Young.
After years of ridiculous underinvestment.
I think his rating has been based on how players have performed so far, not in how they would have performed if LVG played them more or how they will perform in the future.
Frankly speaking, if Herrera cannot displace Fellaini in the lineup (be it because of his fault or because of the manager) it is a poor signing by definition. I mean, he cost 30m or so. And Fellaini is playing ahead of him. Felaini.
Fellaini cost 30 million or so as well.
Well yeah, but most of people thought back then that it was an extremely bad signing. And I think that most of posters here wanted him out in the summer.Fellaini cost 30 million or so as well.
Just to imagine that after we spend around 150m in midfield on the last 18 months, we still aren't much better in that department than we were back then. Depressing!
Blind - Think he's excellent when playing as DM. As LB/LWB his attacking play lets him down.
Shaw - He's excellent as a LB, defensively sound. But his attacking play simply isn't there (but this was the same issue at Southampton).
Herrera - He makes us tick, not sure why he isn't playing much.
Di Maria - Being played all over the place, needs to go back to his Real Madrid starting position before we start to see him recovering his form.
Falaco - No service, has missed a few chances he should have put away.
Rojo - Thought he was going to be an awful signing, but he reminds me of a young Vidic. He'll be a brilliant CB for us imo.
But if we look at the above, then look at our choices for wide players you'll then see the issue:
- Blind (not good as a LWB)
- Shaw (his attacking play isn't good enough)
- Valencia (he's awful)
- Young (he's our best wide player which says it all)
- Rafael (injured)
- Di Maria (can't play as a WB)
So you now understand the issue we have. I think LvG probably regrets not buying in a new RWB, but we don't know his long term goal at United. He may see 3-5-2 as a short term answer to get us into the top 4 before being able to change formation by bringing in the players he wants. Being out of the CL hurt our Summer spending imo, being in the CL is very important to bring in the top quality signings. I just think we need to realise that this season is a work in progress and accept that we won't be seeing vintage United. If we're still playing the same way next Season then I think Van Gaal can have criticism thrown his way, but i'm being realistic and trying to appreciate that at the end of the day finishing top 4 is far more important than playing good football. As long as we finish top 4, Van Gaal has my backing, if we fail and we still play terrible football next season, then i'll be growing hugely frustrated.
Blind and Herrera have been good.
Shaw hasn't had a run yet.
ADM keeps getting played out of position.
We are massively over complicating the formation and starting XI every week. Why can't we go back to what we had at the start of the season now everyone is fit??
Shaw hasn't had a run yet.
ADM keeps getting played out of position.
We are massively over complicating the formation and starting XI every week. Why can't we go back to what we had at the start of the season now everyone is fit??