League Cup 3rd Round

Manchester United 0:1 West Ham United

Old Trafford

Kick-off
Wed, 22 September 2021 @ 7:45pm BST
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    SuperiorXI said:
    We play on Saturday so it should be a mix of mostly first teamers and backup options. You can bet West Ham will be taking this seriously especially after the manner in which we just beat them.
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    What, we got done out of 2 stonewall penalties and they got gifted theirs and fecked it up? What 'manner in which we beat them', exactly? They were lucky not to lose 4-1, the cnuts.
     
    Adnan said:
    Amad is injured and i'm doubtful Mejbri features. Liverpool on the other hand are expected to hand a debut to 16 year old Kaide Gordon tonight according to reports and Klopp's assistant Ljinders is quoted as saying it's more important to show the kids a clear pathway to the first team than winning the competition.

    It seems they're using the competition to give opportunities to a few of their younger players.
    Click to expand...
    You can do that against Norwich though. Probably play the entire U18s and give a good account of themselves.

    West Ham are a whole different ball game. Their bench against us was full of experience. If we genuinely want to progress in this competition then a decent side with the strength in depth must be fielded.
    Of course Elanga, Shoretire could figure
     
    SuperiorXI said:
    We play on Saturday so it should be a mix of mostly first teamers and backup options. You can bet West Ham will be taking this seriously especially after the manner in which we just beat them.
    Click to expand...
    I doubt it. They also have 2 games a week and hardly have the deepest squad. They have Leeds away on Sat( winnable game). What do you think Moyes will prioritise?
     
    Inigo Montoya said:
    You can do that against Norwich though. Probably play the entire U18s and give a good account of themselves.

    West Ham are a whole different ball game. Their bench against us was full of experience. If we genuinely want to progress in this competition then a decent side with the strength in depth must be fielded.
    Of course Elanga, Shoretire could figure
    Click to expand...
    It's not just Norwich though, Klopp has given a debut to a 16 year old fullback against Wolves in the FA Cup in recent years and last year he selected two teenagers in his back 4 against Arsenal in the Carabao Cup.

    And Ljinders is quoted as saying 'it's more important to bring in the youth than even win the competition' There was a time under Fergie when some in the media referred to the League Cup as the 'worthless Cup'
     
    Adnan said:
    It's not just Norwich though, Klopp has given a debut to a 16 year old fullback against Wolves in the FA Cup in recent years and last year he selected two teenagers in his back 4 against Arsenal in the Carabao Cup.

    And Ljinders is quoted as saying 'it's more important to bring in the youth than even win the competition' There was a time under Fergie when some in the media referred to the League Cup as the 'worthless Cup'
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    The media did. SAF never ever chose a team he didn’t think could win a match be it League Cup or otherwise. How many times did he win it? 4 and two losing finalists.

    All this about throwing the game because we have other priorities is bollocks and I don’t give two shits what Liverpool think. They are playing a crap championship side, we’re not! As for Liverpool bringing through youth nonsense. We’ve given far more opportunities to kids than they have
     
    Inigo Montoya said:
    The media did. SAF never ever chose a team he didn’t think could win a match be it League Cup or otherwise. How many times did he win it? 4 and two losing finalists.

    All this about throwing the game because we have other priorities is bollocks and I don’t give two shits what Liverpool think. They are playing a crap championship side, we’re not! As for Liverpool bringing through youth nonsense. We’ve given far more opportunities to kids than they have
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    Klopp isn't throwing the game either because he's selecting players who he thinks can win the the game aswell. Last year against Arsenal he fielded two teenagers in his backline and the game was goalless in normal time with Arsenal winning on pens.

    I couldn't give a shit about the Carabao Cup and would rather see us field a few young players who are showing the potential to become first team players which will help in their development IMO.
     
    I'd certainly take winning this cup over another season of nothing. So I'm hoping we don't go out in our first round and at home. So I'm wanting Ole to go quite strong but rest the likes of Ronaldo, Bruno and Shaw.
     
    Adnan said:
    Klopp isn't throwing the game either because he's selecting players who he thinks can win the the game aswell. Last year against Arsenal he fielded two teenagers in his backline and the game was goalless in normal time with Arsenal winning on pens.

    I couldn't give a shit about the Carabao Cup and would rather see us field a few young players who are showing the potential to become first team players which will help in their development IMO.
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    You're ignoring the main issue though which is the bloated first team squad. I'm counting 24 first team outfield players (excluding the likes of Amad, Elanga, Mejbri, Mengi). Even in a pure B team there would be several first teamers missing out before we even get to the youngsters.

    We're happy to keep duds around forever (Jones, Bailly, Mata, Martial etc.) which obviously has a knock-on effect. Those duds will automatically steal game time from youngsters. It's daft to use Klopp's situation as a direct comparison because he doesn't have our squad depth and on top of that he has 4-5 players unavailable. A couple of kids are bound to get into his rotated cup team by default.

    The question is why we dish out new contracts to undeserving players? And why do we pay them so high wages that they'd rather rot on the bench here than find a team where they'll actually get some game time? First and foremost we need a ruthless transfer/contract policy if we want to see more young players get a proper chance.
     
    Samid said:
    You're ignoring the main issue though which is the bloated first team squad. I'm counting 24 first team outfield players (excluding the likes of Amad, Elanga, Mejbri, Mengi). Even in a pure B team there would be several first teamers missing out before we even get to the youngsters.

    We're happy to keep duds around forever (Jones, Bailly, Mata, Martial etc.) which obviously has a knock-on effect. Those duds will automatically steal game time from youngsters. It's daft to use Klopp's situation as a direct comparison because he doesn't have our squad depth and on top of that he has 4-5 players unavailable. A couple of kids are bound to get into his rotated cup team by default.

    The question is why we dish out new contracts to undeserving players? And why do we pay them so high wages that they'd rather rot on the bench here than find a team where they'll actually get some game time? First and foremost we need a ruthless transfer/contract policy if we want to see more young players get a proper chance.
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    I'm not ignoring the bloated squad at all and it's due to that very reason I believe some of the younger players haven't been given the opportunity that they should've got. But you can't just put that down to the board and the manager has to also take some responsibility aswell.
     
    Adnan said:
    I'm not ignoring the bloated squad at all and it's due to that very reason I believe some of the younger players haven't been given the opportunity that they should've got. But you can't just put that down to the board and the manager has to also take some responsibility aswell.
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    He can choose to use Hannibal instead of Mata or Elanga instead of someone else. It's entirely up to him so I don't get the "we have a big squad". Does it say in Mata's contract that he must play? Not that I get why he got a new contract in the first place but it seems surreal that we just seem to hand out new contracts and playing time to deadwood for no apparent reason. City and Liverpool played plenty of youngsters tonight without bragging about how much they give youth a chance. United certainly won't do the same and I doubt we will see some champagne football regardless. Ole has talked a lot about giving youth a chance but he seems to have given up on that completely in the last 1-2 seasons.
     
    Mickson said:
    He can choose to use Hannibal instead of Mata or Elanga instead of someone else. It's entirely up to him so I don't get the "we have a big squad". Does it say in Mata's contract that he must play? Not that I get why he got a new contract in the first place but it seems surreal that we just seem to hand out new contracts and playing time to deadwood for no apparent reason. City and Liverpool played plenty of youngsters tonight without bragging about how much they give youth a chance. United certainly won't do the same and I doubt we will see some champagne football regardless. Ole has talked a lot about giving youth a chance but he seems to have given up on that completely in the last 1-2 seasons.
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    I agree mate. Klopp could've easily have played Jota over 16 year old Kaide Gordon tonight but he didn't. So we can blame the board for a lot of things but they don't force Ole to only select the more established players. I hope Elanga at least gets a chance.
     
    Adnan said:
    I'm not ignoring the bloated squad at all and it's due to that very reason I believe some of the younger players haven't been given the opportunity that they should've got. But you can't just put that down to the board and the manager has to also take some responsibility aswell.
    Click to expand...
    Adnan said:
    I agree mate. Klopp could've easily have played Jota over 16 year old Kaide Gordon tonight but he didn't. So we can blame the board for a lot of things but they don't force Ole to only select the more established players. I hope Elanga at least gets a chance.
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    The manager also has to take his fair share of the blame obviously. Mata's extra year is on Ole imo. Yes he might be a professional guy and good in the dressing room but on the pitch he's a waste of time. Any minutes he plays this season should've gone to the youngsters.

    But any manager (apart from LVG) would love to have as many players as possible. Klopp would've probably preferred to keep the likes of Ings, Lovren, Ibe, Brewster etc. if he could and money wasn't an issue. After all he has kept Ox and Origi and they've been non-existent for years. Managers are hoarders and sometimes you need the board/DOF to tell you "look this guy isn't offering us anything, we won't give him a new contract". That should have been done with the likes of Jones, Bailly and Mata.

    Jota has started all their games bar one this season because of Firmino's injuries. So why on earth could Jota 'easily have played' if the point is to rotate players? Milner would've played tonight if he hadn't been a last minute replacement for TAA at the weekend. If Milner, Thiago, Elliot and Firmino all were available, would the 16 year old have started? Probably not. Klopp could've also given minutes to Balagizi but he chose to sub on Henderson instead, why did he go for the more established player when the game was done and dusted at 3-0?

    I just don't get this constant mentioning of what Klopp is doing when the context is entirely different. Klopp started all of his first team players who were short of minutes (Gomez, Konate, Jones, Ox, Minamino, Origi, Tsimikas, Keita) tonight. He didn't have anyone else available from the first team squad who needed minutes. That meant he could use the final two spots to experiment. Compare that to Ole who has 11-12 first team players in need of minutes. It's a lazy argument to keep mentioning Klopp's selection of a 16 year old when he didn't have one other first teamer in need of game time on the bench.
     
    Samid said:
    The manager also has to take his fair share of the blame obviously. Mata's extra year is on Ole imo. Yes he might be a professional guy and good in the dressing room but on the pitch he's a waste of time. Any minutes he plays this season should've gone to the youngsters.

    But any manager (apart from LVG) would love to have as many players as possible. Klopp would've probably preferred to keep the likes of Ings, Lovren, Ibe, Brewster etc. if he could and money wasn't an issue. After all he has kept Ox and Origi and they've been non-existent for years. Managers are hoarders and sometimes you need the board/DOF to tell you "look this guy isn't offering us anything, we won't give him a new contract". That should have been done with the likes of Jones, Bailly and Mata.

    Jota has started all their games bar one this season because of Firmino's injuries. So why on earth could Jota 'easily have played' if the point is to rotate players? Milner would've played tonight if he hadn't been a last minute replacement for TAA at the weekend. If Milner, Thiago, Elliot and Firmino all were available, would the 16 year old have started? Probably not. Klopp could've also given minutes to Balagizi but he chose to sub on Henderson instead, why did he go for the more established player when the game was done and dusted at 3-0?

    I just don't get this constant mentioning of what Klopp is doing when the context is entirely different. Klopp started all of his first team players who were short of minutes (Gomez, Konate, Jones, Ox, Minamino, Origi, Tsimikas, Keita) tonight. He didn't have anyone else available from the first team squad who needed minutes. That meant he could use the final two spots to experiment. Compare that to Ole who has 11-12 first team players in need of minutes. It's a lazy argument to keep mentioning Klopp's selection of a 16 year old when he didn't have one other first teamer in need of game time on the bench.
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    You've mentioned Mata which you confess was on Ole but Donny Van de Beek who has been severely under used is also on Ole, because according to the players agent he would've also moved on loan to Everton until Solskjaer intervened and put a stop to that. Solskjaer was also reported to have wanted to keep Dan James even after the club bought Ronaldo but the decision was taken out his hands if the reports are anything to go by. He also wants to keep Lingard when IMO many other managers would've sidelined Lingard a long time ago.

    I'm not sure if every manager is a hoarder like you put it. If a manager wants to constantly hoard players then I don't believe that manager is thinking about giving the young players much of a chance. That's his (Ole) prerogative and he can do as he pleases but let's not make excuses here.

    'Klopp would've probably liked to have kept the players' you mention is a assumption because none of those players were good enough for the way he wants his team to play and neither did he buy those players but rather he inherited them. He's also won the Champions League and league title with the likes of Origi and Chamberlain in his squad so it's understandable why he may want to keep them considering he's won the two biggest prizes in club football whilst being a coach in England.

    Klopp is starting 16 year olds which should be noted and many other managers would easily select a established player ahead of a 16 year old. But the reason he started him is simple, because he's a huge talent and Klopp and his assistant Ljinders have both gone on record and said they would create a pathway for the most talented youth players which balagizi quite clearly isn't IMO . He doesn't just throw any young player into the first team which you quite clearly don't understand IMO from reading your post.

    Again you fail to understand that Klopp has created conditions to give the youth players a chance which I've explained above. He's used the domestic cups to give youth players a chance. And I'm not saying we should make wholesale changes and bring in a whole team of youth players, but it would be nice to see one or two players like Elanga or Hannibal given a opportunity like Klopp gave to youngsters Gordon and Bradley in their 3-0 win away to Norwich.
     
    Telles & Cavani have only just returned so I presume they will start on the bench with a view to bringing both of them on at some stage in the game. I’d keep Varane in the starting XI as I simply don’t trust a Lindelof & Bailly CB partnership as we saw towards the end of last season. AWB is suspended next week against Villarreal in the CL so he will have his rest night then. I’d have Ronaldo on the bench just in case we do need him.


    Starting XI:

    Heaton

    Wan-Bissaka - Lindelof - Varane - Dalot

    Van De Beek - Matic

    Sancho - Lingard - Elanga

    Martial​

    Subs: Henderson, Bailly, Telles, McTominay, Mejbri, Ronaldo, Cavani

    Score Prediction: Manchester United 2-0 West Ham United
     
    God i hate games like this because in an ideal world you would like to experiment with the League Cup, but at the same time i dont think we have a chance of the League or Champs League, so what do you do?.

    I dont know but i'd like to see Cavani, Sancho, and Donny get a start in this.
     
    Henderson
    Dalot Bailly Lindelof Telles
    McT VdB
    Mata Lingard Sancho
    Martial

    Bank on it.
     
    Henderson
    Dalot Bailly Lindelof Telles
    Matic VdB
    Diallo Lingard Sancho
    Martial​
     
    We will surely play the team B. Remember they worked on something during the international break and have the closed-door game as well. It’s the perfect opportunity to show it.
     
    Would love it if someone could PM me streaming sites that work all of my links are gone.
     
    Imagine getting so worked up because Klopp played a couple of youngsters and it’s people’s belief that we won’t.

    The match hasn’t begun yet and the craziness begins. Was so glad I missed the match day thread when I went to the game Sunday
     
    DDG
    Dalot - Lindelof - Maguire - Shaw
    Matic - van de Beek
    Pogba
    Sancho - Greenwood - Lingard
    ​
    I would really like to see that team.
     
    We are all gonna be surprised when we see Ronaldo starting. And less surprised when we see him scoring another brace.
     
    Would be nice to see Elangaga feature at some point. He’s always impressed in the limited senior squad showing. With his pace and pressing, he can take the Dan James profile in the squad.
     
    DWelbz19 said:
    Would be nice to see Elangaga feature at some point. He’s always impressed in the limited senior squad showing. With his pace and pressing, he can take the Dan James profile in the squad.
    Click to expand...
    Would be nice to spell his last name right.
     
    Henderson
    Dalot - Lindelof - Bailly - Telles
    Matic - Pogba
    VDB
    Sancho - Greenwood - Lingard

    If we get and early lead swap VDB for Pogba and play him deeper. Make Lingard play CAM and bring Elanga for LW.​
     
    DWelbz19 said:
    Would be nice to see Elangaga feature at some point. He’s always impressed in the limited senior squad showing. With his pace and pressing, he can take the Dan James profile in the squad.
    Click to expand...
    Any relation to lady gaga. I”ll get my coat now
     
    Phil Jones will come off the bench today and will be given the captain's armband by Maguire.
     
    Adnan said:
    It's not just Norwich though, Klopp has given a debut to a 16 year old fullback against Wolves in the FA Cup in recent years and last year he selected two teenagers in his back 4 against Arsenal in the Carabao Cup.

    And Ljinders is quoted as saying 'it's more important to bring in the youth than even win the competition' There was a time under Fergie when some in the media referred to the League Cup as the 'worthless Cup'
    Click to expand...
    Appart from the guy who got injured, who is featuring regularly from the academy for them ?
    We have Rashford, Greenwood, McTomminay, with Lingard on the bench as well and Pogba if we can count him. Many youngsters got their debut and featured under Ole as well.

    So I don’t think it’s pertinent to criticize the club about that when we are the big club with the most academy graduates in the team.
     
    Sassy Colin said:
    What, we got done out of 2 stonewall penalties and they got gifted theirs and fecked it up? What 'manner in which we beat them', exactly? They were lucky not to lose 4-1, the cnuts.
    Click to expand...

    Ronaldo missed that guilt edged opportunity and Bruno hit the post. On another day we could have ripped them.
     
    Really hope Noble starts for them and gets sent off, that and United win would really make my week!
     
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Post-match discussion

Man of the Match

Donny van de Beek image Donny van de Beek 38% of 229 votes

Runners-up

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Player Ratings

5.5 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 237 ratings.
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Score Predictions

218,16,17
  • Man Utd win
  • West Ham win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 25% Man Utd 2:0 West Ham
  • 24% Man Utd 2:1 West Ham
  • 10% Man Utd 3:1 West Ham
  • 9% Man Utd 3:0 West Ham
  • 8% Man Utd 1:0 West Ham
  • 6% Man Utd 3:2 West Ham
  • 5% Man Utd 1:1 West Ham
  • 4% Man Utd 1:2 West Ham
  • 2% Man Utd 4:0 West Ham
  • 2% Man Utd 4:1 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 0:2 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 5:0 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 1:3 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 0:1 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 0:5 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 2:3 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 5:1 West Ham
Compiled from 251 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. West Ham
Possession
61% 39%
Shots
27 9
Shots on Target
6 3
Corners
7 5
Fouls
4 6

Referee

Jonathan Moss

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