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Manchester United 4:0 West Ham United

Old Trafford

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Sun, 13 August 2017 @ 4:00pm BST
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    vi1lain said:
    Yes he had flashes of brilliance, but his problem is consistency over the course of a match.

    I haven't insulted him, or said he was terrible.
    Click to expand...

    I'd take Martial's flashes of brilliance over Lingard's consistency. Also being consistently bad is not something to be celebrated, but maybe that's just me.
     
    MadMike said:
    I'd take Martial's flashes of brilliance over Lingard's consistency. Also being consistently bad is not something to be celebrated, but maybe that's just me.
    Click to expand...

    If you think Lingard is consistently bad then yeah, it probably is just you.
     
    West ham have strengthened a lot so it won't be an easy match. We need to start quickly and score early to settle any nerves. Like someone said earlier we drew the corresponding fixture last season so it's the first test to see whether we have improved or not.
     
    Vaibhav Raj said:
    Classical case of selective memory. More effective than oRashford? The guy who was the sole reason we made it to the EL final? Did you miss his goals and assists at the later stages of the tournament?
    Click to expand...

    Before Zlatan got injured and he moved centrally what had he done for the team. He went for about 3 months without scoring a goal from the wing in the league. We are discussing what them two did in the league last season from the wing and Rashford didn't contribute enough from that position
     
    MadMike said:
    I'd take Martial's flashes of brilliance over Lingard's consistency. Also being consistently bad is not something to be celebrated, but maybe that's just me.
    Click to expand...

    Lingard wasn't consistently bad in pre-season though. :confused:
     
    Think it will be Rashford instead of Martial.
    Mourinho might want raw pace against Zabaleta.
     
    A "surprised Lingard" aside, today is also the battle of Martial vs Rashford.

    As of now, I think Jose marginally prefers Rashford to Martial. But I think Martial will start over Rash, among other factors, it's only a marginal preference, it's 1st game (yes every point is vital but it is still the 1st game), and Martial has more potential.
     
    vi1lain said:
    I think we have much better potential with Martial in the team, and I expect him to lock down a place in the first XI on the left hand side, especially with the World Cup next year.
    All he needs is one chance and he can carve through a defence like butter, but more often than not, that one chance comes after 4 or 5 occasions where he got it wrong previously.
    It's unfair to expect him to get it right every time, but I certainly expect him to have a higher success rate - that's what the world class players do.

    Now when he's fronting up against a defender, I hope he does something special, compare that with a Hazard/Bale/Ribery/Neymar etc where you're surprised if they don't do something special, that's the difference for me, he needs to be more consistent, he has the ability.
    Click to expand...
    Hmmm for me he is better in that 2 with Lukaku or by himself. The way Jose plays 433 doesn't do those wide forwards any favours. Although I'm sure if Jose played it deifferently Martial could certainly do something spectacular.

    On that comparison thing tho. Hazard,Ribery, Neymar and Robben fail quite often when they dribble inside and take shots on. Out of 5 probably 1 comes off for Hazard that something dangerous happens.
    Last year Martial and Rashford always had that statue blocking the space so I would never expect them to have as much goals as the likes of the others. However with Lukaku's movement and willingness to make selfless runs I'd expect more goals from the lot of them.

    However like I said Martial for me is better up top and I really expect to see more of this 352 but we'll see what happens but I don't think I could ever say Lingard had a better more productive pre season.
     
    flappyjay said:
    Before Zlatan got injured and he moved centrally what had he done for the team. He went for about 3 months without scoring a goal from the wing in the league. We are discussing what them two did in the league last season from the wing and Rashford didn't contribute enough from that position
    Click to expand...
    Okay. The discussion has very conveniently been windowed down to a particular period and particular competition. Fine. But did Martial pull up trees during that period? No? He was bad too. So the guy who is visibly more hard working, visibly more willing to put in a shift got trusted by the manager. What's the fuss about?

    Martial is more talented, yes. But, most probably is more inconsistent. At least that's what manager must have thought. We had a season to save and a few trophies to won. We were not playing 'let's get Martial back in form' trophy. So, when each match counted, the manager chose the option he was more confident in. No partiality here. Nothing to discuss.
     
    Leftback99 said:
    It will be interesting to see whether we go with 3 or 4 at the back as it could be a sign of whats to come for the rest of the season. Particularly if we go with 3 as we don't have the player for the left wing back yet.

    Don't see Martial starting as Mourinho doesn't seem to rate him despite him being the only player that can beat a man in the squad.

    Like last season i don't expect many goals.
    Click to expand...

    Yea indeed. Personally I would love 3-5-2, but do not think so IMO.
     
    The United Irishman said:
    No he wasn't. He kept losing the ball running into defenders and misplacing passes...It's easy to see why he isn't first choice under Mourinho.
    Click to expand...

    Look he got more goals and assists than those two guys combined in the league. So we would rather have guys who keep it safe and don't try things in order to stay in the team?
     
    Andersons Dietician said:
    Hmmm for me he is better in that 2 with Lukaku or by himself. The way Jose plays 433 doesn't do those wide forwards any favours. Although I'm sure if Jose played it deifferently Martial could certainly do something spectacular.

    On that comparison thing tho. Hazard,Ribery, Neymar and Robben fail quite often when they dribble inside and take shots on. Out of 5 probably 1 comes off for Hazard that something dangerous happens.
    Last year Martial and Rashford always had that statue blocking the space so I would never expect them to have as much goals as the likes of the others. However with Lukaku's movement and willingness to make selfless runs I'd expect more goals from the lot of them.

    However like I said Martial for me is better up top and I really expect to see more of this 352 but we'll see what happens but I don't think I could ever say Lingard had a better more productive pre season.
    Click to expand...

    I haven't seen enough quality out of Martial when he's played up top, to make claims based on hypothetical situations.

    And on the comparison - like I said I don't expect him to get it right every time, but his success rate needs to be higher, especially considering he has the potential to be one of the best in the world.
    The others I mentioned don't fail anywhere near as often as Martial does, and most importantly their respective teams can depend on those players week in, week out - we can't do that with Martial yet, and that's what frustrates me the most.
    If we're to challenge for the title he has to be reliable and dependent upon to put in great performances weekly.
     
    vi1lain said:
    I haven't seen enough quality out of Martial when he's played up top, to make claims based on hypothetical situations.

    And on the comparison - like I said I don't expect him to get it right every time, but his success rate needs to be higher, especially considering he has the potential to be one of the best in the world.
    The others I mentioned don't fail anywhere near as often as Martial does, and most importantly their respective teams can depend on those players week in, week out - we can't do that with Martial yet, and that's what frustrates me the most.
    If we're to challenge for the title he has to be reliable and dependent upon to put in great performances weekly.
    Click to expand...
    He was never given a chance to prove his reliability tho aloss tasked with really over the top defensive jobs that the players you mentioned aren't tasked with anything near the same.
    There is more to his form last year than just him Jose was as much to blame as anyone.
     
    I want to see a statement of intent from Jose of free flowing attacking football a we will score more than you attitude. Have I really just posted this or am I having a dream.
     
    Going with:


    ------------de Gea
    Valencia--Bailly--Jones--Darmian
    -------------Matic
    --------Herrera--Pogba
    Mkhitaryan---Lukaku---Martial

    I don't know why, he won't start.
     
    Mciahel Goodman said:
    Going with:


    ------------de Gea
    Valencia--Bailly--Jones--Darmian
    -------------Matic
    --------Herrera--Pogba
    Mkhitaryan---Lukaku---Martial

    I don't know why, he won't start.
    Click to expand...

    I think that's the closest thing to our objective best XI as things stand.

    Trouble is, I expect Jose with another one of this 'Surprise Lingard/Fellaini!' inclusions.
     
    Vaibhav Raj said:
    Okay. The discussion has very conveniently been windowed down to a particular period and particular competition. Fine. But did Martial pull up trees during that period? No? He was bad too. So the guy who is visibly more hard working, visibly more willing to put in a shift got trusted by the manager. What's the fuss about?

    Martial is more talented, yes. But, most probably is more inconsistent. At least that's what manager must have thought. We had a season to save and a few trophies to won. We were not playing 'let's get Martial back in form' trophy. So, when each match counted, the manager chose the option he was more confident in. No partiality here. Nothing to discuss.
    Click to expand...

    Ok let's play the hard workers again this season don't be surprised when we are the least scoring team in the top six again. Consistently putting in a shift can't be better than inconsistently producing the goods. But to each his own
     
    Just want to see us attack and score a few goals. I'm dreading looking at the lineup and Fellaini and Lingard are starting.
     
    Leftback99 said:
    It will be interesting to see whether we go with 3 or 4 at the back as it could be a sign of whats to come for the rest of the season. Particularly if we go with 3 as we don't have the player for the left wing back yet.

    Don't see Martial starting as Mourinho doesn't seem to rate him despite him being the only player that can beat a man in the squad.

    Like last season i don't expect many goals.
    Click to expand...
    Seems more of a reactive system from Mourinho, so if he feels West Ham could feature that way, like they did in their last travel to OT, he might be tempted. Although Lingard's underperformance limits his options to opt for that system, and you can see why he wants Perišić so much.
     
    Mciahel Goodman said:
    Going with:


    ------------de Gea
    Valencia--Bailly--Jones--Darmian
    -------------Matic
    --------Herrera--Pogba
    Mkhitaryan---Lukaku---Martial

    I don't know why, he won't start.
    Click to expand...

    This is pretty much what I am hoping to see too but Jose will likely pick Rashford or Lingard over Martial. I'd also have Smalling at CB as he has been looking good in pre season.
     
    Mciahel Goodman said:
    Going with:


    ------------de Gea
    Valencia--Bailly--Jones--Darmian
    -------------Matic
    --------Herrera--Pogba
    Mkhitaryan---Lukaku---Martial

    I don't know why, he won't start.
    Click to expand...
    I'll give you a reason why: if Mourinho wants Woodward to push for Perišić, featuring Martial and giving him a chance to shine might beat the purpose.
     
    AndyJ1985 said:
    Just want to see us attack and score a few goals. I'm dreading looking at the lineup and Fellaini and Lingard are starting.[/QUOTEo
    - ; authorities
    Click to expand...
    I don't think either will start tbh. But I do believe Fellaini will be another player that can take advantage of playing in a three with Matic holding.

    He's a lot more likely to get us a goal from midfield than Herrera is.
     
    Android1974 said:
    I'll give you a reason why: if Mourinho wants Woodward to push for Perišić, featuring Martial and giving him a chance to shine might beat the purpose.
    Click to expand...

    I don't think it's Mourinho vs Woodward on Peresic. It's Mourinho and Woodward vs Inter.
     
    Android1974 said:
    Seems more of a reactive system from Mourinho, so if he feels West Ham could feature that way, like they did in their last travel to OT, he might be tempted. Although Lingard's underperformance limits his options to opt for that system, and you can see why he wants Perišić so much.
    Click to expand...
    Probably but I think the sooner we find a system and close to first 11 and stick to it the better. Far too much chopping and changing of systems and personnel last season.
     
    Pexbo said:
    I don't think it's Mourinho vs Woodward on Peresic. It's Mourinho and Woodward vs Inter.
    Click to expand...
    So, basically, you're saying Mourinho could feature Martial to show Inter we don't need Perišić… Could also have no influence whatsoever, but I found it suspicious Mourinho didn't risk a third late substitution, that would be Martial, when we were battling against Real Madrid.
     
    Leftback99 said:
    Probably but I think the sooner we find a system and close to first 11 and stick to it the better. Far too much chopping and changing of systems and personnel last season.
    Click to expand...
    Maybe, but I could see Mourinho changing system week in week out, depending on adversaries.
     
    If Lingard plays and Martial doesn't I'm not expecting much.
     
    Garethw said:
    He caused Real more problems than anybody else. His miss was dreadful, but I'd definitely start him over Lingard and Martial today.
    Click to expand...
    Not true: Fellaini. I would start Martial, but I'm expecting Rashford.
     
    Android1974 said:
    I'll give you a reason why: if Mourinho wants Woodward to push for Perišić, featuring Martial and giving him a chance to shine might beat the purpose.
    Click to expand...

    And that's how a manager would think? It's not about getting the 3 points on the board and starting the season well. :wenger::wenger::wenger:
     
    Went with a 433, but I have a feeling Jose will go with a 4231

    De Gea
    Valencia Bailly Lindelof Darmian
    Pogba Matic
    Mata Mkhitaryan Rashford
    Lukaku

    Romero Smalling/Jones Blind Carrick Fellaini Lingard Martial
    ​
     
    Gandalf Greyhame said:
    I think Mourinho will be pissed off with Martial's camp for encouraging Inter/Spurs to make bids. It showed in the Super Cup, it'll show in lineup today. Rashford to start, Lingard as a sub. Martial won't even get an appearance.

    I hope I'm proved wrong, but if this happens, we should be concerned.
    Click to expand...

    Good post. The highlighted bit is something a lot of people miss. Before bids are made, clubs feel a player's camp first. If the vibes are encouraging, then they bid. Jose complained last season that Martial was listening too much to his agent who, according to Jose, was not advicing him well. What if this has not changed much? What if Martial's camp has been sending all the wrong signals all along? Jose is very big on loyalty. I doubt if he is such a poor observer of talent that he would not have noticed how immensely talented Martial is. Could it be that his problem with Martial is more of a perceived loyalty issue than a talent/ability one? He is known to often bench players who won't be staying long with the team. In the other, if this is not the case, then for whatever reasons, Jose simply does not rare Martial high and that would be a pity.

    My bet is on Martial leaving United this window or next Summer. I hope I lose the bet because I like him a lot as a player.
     
    Android1974 said:
    Not true: Fellaini. I would start Martial, but I'm expecting Rashford.
    Click to expand...

    The introduction of Fellaini really made a big difference, but I do think you are being a little harsh on Rashford. Aside from the Miss his dribbling caused Madrid a lot of problems.

    I have a feeling it will be Lingard that starts today though.

    I really wouldn't blame Martial if he wanted to leave if he keeps being overlooked for the inferior Lingard.
     
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Man of the Match

Nemanja Matic image Nemanja Matic 66% of 1271 votes

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Score Predictions

729,12,50
  • Man Utd win
  • West Ham win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 31% Man Utd 2:0 West Ham
  • 19% Man Utd 3:0 West Ham
  • 16% Man Utd 3:1 West Ham
  • 14% Man Utd 2:1 West Ham
  • 5% Man Utd 1:0 West Ham
  • 4% Man Utd 1:1 West Ham
  • 2% Man Utd 4:0 West Ham
  • 2% Man Utd 4:1 West Ham
  • 2% Man Utd 5:0 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 1:2 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 5:1 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 3:2 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 0:2 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 1:3 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 0:1 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 0:5 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 West Ham
  • 0% Man Utd 4:3 West Ham
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. West Ham
Possession
55% 45%
Shots
21 9
Shots on Target
5 1
Corners
11 1
Fouls
19 7

Referee

Martin Atkinson

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