FA Premier League

Manchester United 1:6 Tottenham Hotspur

Old Trafford

Kick-off
Sun, 4 October 2020 @ 4:30pm BST
Status

Closed

Discussion Your Lineup Prediction

  • Status
    Not open for further replies.
    RedNed77 said:
    His indecisive goalkeeping left us with a mountain to climb. That isn’t excusing Maguire or Shaw or a Bailly and doesn’t excuse our woeful midfield who were completely bypassed, but he has his part to share. A couple of TV saves doesn’t exculpate his mistakes, which helped put us on that back foot and led to this absolute disgrace of a performance.
    Click to expand...
    You've had one here pal
     
    1966 said:
    I don't have a subscription. What was the gist of it? I'm very interested!

    Kane's an excellent penalty taker, one of the best.
    Click to expand...

    Talked about two ways of training or taking pens, basically focusing on the keep (Jorginho) or independent of the keeper (Kane).

    Kane has a Johnny Wilkinson esq training program on pens, focusing on a repeatable and reliable process. Ball down. Seven steps back. 30 degree angle, pump legs, sprint, exhale before striking, keep hips open etc.
     
    Tapori said:
    Did you expect to finish top 3 last season?
    Click to expand...

    Well at the start that was the aim wasn't it? We'd had all the talk of the squad being word class but just held back by Jose and supposedly proven by the change in form when Ole took over. All the bad games were just fatigue people said.

    The turnaround was unexpected though and we did incredible to get 3rd. I think we should look across all elements to judge a manager rather than just the points during a purple patch because recreating that is tough.

    People made the mistake that the early form wasn't relevant because our late form was great. In truth they were both just the wildly fluctuating form of a poorly coached team.
     
    RedNed77 said:
    I felt he could have been quicker out to both of Spurs first two goals.
    Click to expand...

    First one: maybe, maybe not, there's no power behind Maguires header and De Gea might reach it first and he might not, when you 3 players right in front of you fighting for the ball it's a difficult call. Second one, agree
     
    Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
    You've had one here pal
    Click to expand...

    A good goalkeeper would have rescued Maguires shit job at shepherding the ball back to him for the first. A good GK would have mopped up the second coming off his line. DdG did neither. I’m being consistent here too, my main criticism of De Gea is how utterly wank his control of his area is and how destructive to our team his fear of coming off his line. He gets away with it a lot of the time, but it put us on the back foot today. Everybody else panicked and we got thumped. I wouldn’t put him as proximate cause for that display today as there were many factors, but he was one of them.
     
    These are the same players that went on that unbeaten run. Now they are crap. Maguire thinking of Jail, Pogba strolls from payday to payday and there are no leaders in sight. Embarrassing display.
     
    I'm beyond angry , it's just I new it was going to unravel , The board the owner, have not backed 1 manager since SAF, something tells me SAFs retirement we premature because he new the direction, Woodward and the Glazers were heading! They will sack Ole that's a given, there is there MO, get another manager in tell them a pack of lies, get a few good results get in 4th at least for money.

    The club is being run by idiots. Evra has been behind the scenes there and he knows it's a mess.
     
    Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
    Talked about two ways of training or taking pens, basically focusing on the keep (Jorginho) or independent of the keeper (Kane).

    Kane has a Johnny Wilkinson esq training program on pens, focusing on a repeatable and reliable process. Ball down. Seven steps back. 30 degree angle, pump legs, sprint, exhale before striking, keep hips open etc.
    Click to expand...
    Oh, that sounds good. It's always been very clear to me that there are two main schools of penalty taking, and I think it's clear that Kane is in the camp of "I don't give a feck what you do, I'm putting this where you won't get it even if you dive the right way" (see DDG today).

    Hell, I could probably describe Kane's process from memory. I think he takes exactly two sharp breaths before running, for example. But I'm much less familiar with other players, especially those who try to interact with the keeper.

    Coincidentally, I've been thinking about a similar thing a lot recently, but from a goalkeeping perspective. Specifically, whether waiting for the taker to kick and indicate a direction before moving or just diving at pseudorandom is the optimal strategy.

    Thanks for sharing. Did they have any conclusions on which technique is better? I have a hypothesis that the school of variation based on the keeper, which Kane obviously doesn't belong to, is actually more efficient. Unless your accuracy is utterly elite, like Kane, in which case you can afford to not pay attention to the goalkeeper because you can reliably beat a Neuer, Cech or DDG at full stretch on either side regardless.
     
    Last edited:
    Tapori said:
    Yes. It's symptomatic of the 7 years of his tenure. Back, Sack and crack and hope for top 4 and brand recognition to keep the coffers afloat to service debt and pay dividends whilst maintaining the hubris of finding yourself shredding SAF and Gill and Edward's legacy at every turn.

    It is Ed's fault that he found the credit lines to negotiate andleverage the deal that allowed teh Glazer's to buy

    It is Ed's fault that established players were treated appallingly (See Rio and Evra et al)

    It is Ed's fault that general re-enforcements among the backline especially, have not been sorted out in the past 10 weeks despite there clearly being a need.

    It is Ed's fault that this scenario repeats throughout the 7 years.

    It is Ed's fault that his nearest rivals all sorted out their transfers and pushed on leaving our squad and manager spinning plates. Let's compare Liverpool's board strategy over the same period shall we?

    It is Ed's fault that his bezzie mates from Bristol, deal with transfers so terribly and still do not allow footballing decisions to be made instead relying on value and deal making gleaned from their banking days and prioritizing sponsorship deals and manipulating the media as they remain detached and deluded because the Glazers lavish them with control after they helped them leverage debt upon the club.

    It is Ed's fault that he never properly backs managers over the long-term and instead always falters in nearly every substantial transfer strategy which his bezzie mates control the negotiations for.
    Click to expand...
    United had one of the largest net spends in the last 7 years.
    Ed has spent about 300ml on Defenders
    Moyes was not appointed by Ed
    Everyone was happy to see Moyes go and LVG come in.
    Everyone was happy to see LVG go and a lot were happy to see Mou come in
    Everyone was happy to see Mou go
    Ole is the only appointment that more a 50:50 split with the fans.
    Yes he hasn't signed ever player we were rumoured to sign but no club in the world provides no manager in the world with every player they want. Even City weren't able to give Pep, Sanchez when he wanted.
    You can blame Ed for helping the Glazers but inspite of the Glazers we have spent way more than most clubs and are far worse for it.
     
    mitchmouse said:
    maybe if you listened I'd bother.. but you won't. are you a tory MP by any chance? I've said a number of times that DDG uses his feet for to much and isn't brave enough. he was very slow for at least two of the goals and has been poor for about a year now

    Meanwhile everyone on Sky agrees it was a red card. If it had been a Spurs defender on rashford, I wonder what you'd be saying. but as I said, you don't want to listen
    Click to expand...

    Awesome, so you're still completely unable to back up any of the things you're spouting.

    It's great that everyone on Sky agrees, but unless they can actually refer to the rules and why it's a red card, then there's not much point in debating their personal feelings.
     
    UncleBob said:
    Awesome, so you're still completely unable to back up any of the things you're spouting.

    It's great that everyone on Sky agrees, but unless they can actually refer to the rules and why it's a red card, then there's not much point in debating their personal feelings.
    Click to expand...
    so you are a tory MP. Everyone else is wrong and you are right. Again, it seems you can't be bothered to read. maybe you should go and lie down in a dark room
     
    mitchmouse said:
    so you are a tory MP. Everyone else is wrong and you are right. Again, it seems you can't be bothered to read. maybe you should go and lie down in a dark room
    Click to expand...

    Let me guess, you used to be a psychologist at a semi-pro level.
     
    kiristao said:
    United had one of the largest net spends in the last 7 years.
    Ed has spent about 300ml on Defenders
    Moyes was not appointed by Ed
    Everyone was happy to see Moyes go and LVG come in.
    Everyone was happy to see LVG go and a lot were happy to see Mou come in
    Everyone was happy to see Mou go
    Ole is the only appointment that more a 50:50 split with the fans.
    Yes he hasn't signed ever player we were rumoured to sign but no club in the world provides no manager in the world with every player they want. Even City weren't able to give Pep, Sanchez when he wanted.
    You can blame Ed for helping the Glazers but inspite of the Glazers we have spent way more than most clubs and are far worse for it.
    Click to expand...
    Recruitment has been awful, the only decent signings have been Bruno, under Ole, Maguire until the last 3 games? Jose for IBRA, that was his best signing, and Matic, Moyes got Mata , LVG most probably was Di Maria, who ended up didn't want to come in first place. Spending has been on over priced players. Not the quality of them.
     
    UncleBob said:
    First one: maybe, maybe not, there's no power behind Maguires header and De Gea might reach it first and he might not, when you 3 players right in front of you fighting for the ball it's a difficult call. Second one, agree
    Click to expand...
    Agree, I've said it before, Henderson, is a big Unit, he fills the goal, looks intimidating just standing there, in the 2 cup games , the defenders look more confident he's behind. Maybe after international break, he gets a nod in premleague .
     
    RedNed77 said:
    A good goalkeeper would have rescued Maguires shit job at shepherding the ball back to him for the first. A good GK would have mopped up the second coming off his line. DdG did neither. I’m being consistent here too, my main criticism of De Gea is how utterly wank his control of his area is and how destructive to our team his fear of coming off his line. He gets away with it a lot of the time, but it put us on the back foot today. Everybody else panicked and we got thumped. I wouldn’t put him as proximate cause for that display today as there were many factors, but he was one of them.
    Click to expand...

    Clueless.
     
    Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
    Clueless.
    Click to expand...

    Not at all, I’m old enough to remember when we actually had good goalkeepers who had shot stopping (not to de geas level admittedly) and who commanded their area.

    The net result is Schmeichel and VdS pinched situations off earlier so it didn’t require a Hollywood save and the concomitant corner.

    Theyre aren’t many goalkeepers around who are good at that anymore, maybe Neuer who is aging now but they’re a dying breed. The drop off in quality of goalkeeping and what’s considered good these days is astounding.
     
    Untied said:
    Maguire would look much better if he had a keeper who's quick and agressive off his line behind him.
    Click to expand...

    Schmeichel is a pale imitation of his dad but was trained by him, I remember seeing him and his dad practicing in Bramhall Park most weekends when he was younger. He makes an attempt to control his area and come off his line, but lacks his dads physical presence and also suffers a bit from the narcissism that most modern GK’s suffer from in wanting saves for the highlights reel. It’s not a surprise that Maguire looked better in front of him than DdG though. Sadly Henderson seems to be from the same school of GK as DdG though so shits not likely to improve. Maybe Kovar might be the one
     
    Tapori said:
    Imagine watching the past 7 years and thinking that a managerial change will change deeper substantial issues.
    Click to expand...
    mitchmouse said:
    very true.. and I agree with gary. but really, Ole's time is up. Moyes, LVG and Jose would all be gone by Monday morning after that
    Click to expand...
    reddevil80 said:
    I wouldn't want anything to do with Utd at the moment, not with the puppet masters in charge right now.
    Click to expand...
    Untied said:
    Maguire would look much better if he had a keeper who's quick and agressive off his line behind him.
    Click to expand...


    We have been seeing this before ole and would continue to see it after. This Spurs team looks quite good under the past it Jose?

    Maguire was criminal but it is not his true level. And that's not the point. They all must do better.

    I've been saying it for some time but Lpool are dead. No way Mane can have another season without an injury. VVD is similarly criminal as Maguire. City seem to not be able to defend too. Chelsea, Arsenal also.

    We can have a proper fight for the top spots. It's not possible for a team to be as bad as we were tonight with 5he kind of players that we have
     
    Last edited:
    kiristao said:
    United had one of the largest net spends in the last 7 years.
    Ed has spent about 300ml on Defenders
    Moyes was not appointed by Ed
    Everyone was happy to see Moyes go and LVG come in.
    Everyone was happy to see LVG go and a lot were happy to see Mou come in
    Everyone was happy to see Mou go
    Ole is the only appointment that more a 50:50 split with the fans.
    Yes he hasn't signed ever player we were rumoured to sign but no club in the world provides no manager in the world with every player they want. Even City weren't able to give Pep, Sanchez when he wanted.
    You can blame Ed for helping the Glazers but inspite of the Glazers we have spent way more than most clubs and are far worse for it.
    Click to expand...

    Again, Ed is in charge of hiring the management and deciding budgets and negotiations. Our budgets and negotiations have been pss-poor when compared to our rivals.

    Ed described wanting to turn United into the "DisneyLand of Football." this should show you his thinking.

    Again compare and contrast with Bayern Munich's operations and Liverpool's net spend and Operations.

    Moyes was again let down by Ed in the market.
    LVG the base was divided.
    Not everyone was happy to see Mou go as many could see the very issues you are ignoring.

    Why have we spent "Way more..." could it be Ed's negotiating teams consisting of financier's with poor footballing network knowledge?

    When nearly every established club and agent hates dealing with our management team vs the previous CEO, the buck stops with Ed.

    When every transfer window brings panic, chaos, leaks and poor investments, at what point should the negotiating teams put in place by Ed take the blame?

    Actually, here's a question:

    What would it take or what would have to happen for you to blame Ed Woodward for mismanaging the club?

    Frankly, Ed Woodward has failed as a football CEO.

    As a corporate CEO he has succeeded in embodying the essence of modern managerialism. Poor performance, 0 accountability, poor people skills and an abject failure to understand anything other than a narrow metric of certain financial figures vs Dividend for shareholder returns and managing a leveraged debt.

    Still, at least he's not Freddy Shphard
     
    Only just seen the red card. Wow, there are professionals sat watching that and deciding that it’s a clear red. Lamela looks to see if the ref saw and then decides to hit the deck. Lots of stinking decisions this season already.
     
    Scarlett Dracarys said:
    I think I'll be okay. My boss will have nothing to say now :lol: :lol:
    Click to expand...

    Haha, right enough! Fair play to Villa. Not only for their result, but for doing what we previously believed impossible: Rendering a Liverpool fan speechless! You’re off the hook :drool:
     
    Santoryo said:
    Son is being ridiculously overrated in here, then again I'm not surprised given this place tend to do that in regard to opposition players, especially when we're about to face them.

    Son is a good player, nothing more, nothing less. The way he's talked about in here one might think we're about to deal with fecking Messi :lol:
    Click to expand...
    Saw this prior to the game, what an absolutely reeking take :lol:. Son is one of the best attackers in the league.
     
    Spurs have a better team, a better manager, better coaches, better planning, better administrators, a better recruiting system.
    I don’t understand why the Caf is so shocked at the scoreline. Deserved it.
     
    ghaliboy said:
    Saw this prior to the game, what an absolutely reeking take :lol:. Son is one of the best attackers in the league.
    Click to expand...
    I agree. I'd say that Kane + Son as a duo sits alone with Salah + Mane as the best in the league. The only reason Spurs aren't seriously challenging for every tournament they enter is because the team behind Kane and Son is, on average, nowhere near as good as those two. They're probably Spurs' only certifiably world class players ATM, unless Bale comes back strong.

    On Son specifically, he's a top 3 winger in the PL, one of the top 5 finishers in Europe (alongside Kane), and one of the best all-round forwards in Europe. In a poll of over 300 members on the largest Spurs forum, Kane and Son were the only players to get any votes in answer to the question "who is our most important player?" (Kane with approximately two-thirds and Son with the remaining third).

    I'd have Kane as Spurs' best and most significant player with Son very close behind (and I wouldn't argue much with anyone who put them the other way around). Then I'd have clear daylight between those two and any of their other players. The Harry Kane Team has become the Kane & Son Show.
     
    mitchmouse said:
    thats what souness said and also branded him as someone playing in Italy/Spain and diving
    Click to expand...
    It was a disgrace, which gave Spurs more momentum and impacted the result big time.

    Godfather said:
    You can give Ole whatever you like he will never be good enough. You can quote me on that
    Click to expand...
    Never is a strong word. I'm still in the give him more time camp, we played some beautiful football only a few months ago.

    glazed said:
    Sacking Ole would just be a PR exercise. But he's only there as a PR exercise so it would have some logic. And it would do no harm, if little good.
    Click to expand...
    The players love him thou, but he isn't an elite manager. We tried that with Van Gaal and Mourinho, so now I think the club are trying something different.

    We need a DOF to liase with scouts, the manager and board.
     
    Red4Life_#7 said:
    Never is a strong word. I'm still in the give him more time camp, we played some beautiful football only a few months ago.
    Click to expand...

    It is interesting how he goes on these amazing runs and then they collapse into disaster. My personal theory is that it took the other clubs a while to work out how to counter Bruno. Once they did, we reverted to type.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
Post-match discussion

Man of the Match

Bruno Fernandes image Bruno Fernandes 30% of 272 votes

Runners-up

Show more results

Player Ratings

2.8 Total Average Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 426 ratings.
Submit your ratings
View full results

Score Predictions

163,53,68
  • Man Utd win
  • Tottenham win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 27% Man Utd 2:1 Tottenham
  • 15% Man Utd 1:1 Tottenham
  • 12% Man Utd 2:0 Tottenham
  • 9% Man Utd 3:1 Tottenham
  • 8% Man Utd 1:2 Tottenham
  • 6% Man Utd 2:2 Tottenham
  • 4% Man Utd 0:2 Tottenham
  • 3% Man Utd 0:1 Tottenham
  • 3% Man Utd 3:0 Tottenham
  • 2% Man Utd 3:2 Tottenham
  • 2% Man Utd 1:0 Tottenham
  • 2% Man Utd 0:0 Tottenham
  • 2% Man Utd 1:3 Tottenham
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Tottenham
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 Tottenham
  • 1% Man Utd 4:2 Tottenham
  • 1% Man Utd 3:3 Tottenham
  • 0% Man Utd 4:0 Tottenham
  • 0% Man Utd 2:3 Tottenham
  • 0% Man Utd 0:3 Tottenham
  • 0% Man Utd 1:4 Tottenham
  • 0% Man Utd 0:4 Tottenham
Compiled from 284 predictions.
Show more results Score Predictions League Table

Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Tottenham
Possession
38% 62%
Shots
5 22
Shots on Target
2 8
Corners
2 4
Fouls
14 11

Referee

Anthony Taylor

Man Utd Lineup

Substitutes

Lineup Predictions League Table View your Lineup Prediction