FC Copenhagen 4:3 Manchester United

mu4c_20le · Nov 8, 2023

The Dane said:
Why Amrabat and not Mount. I don’t get it. At least Mount can bring the ball forward.

Got to defend the draw

JinnerJamie · Nov 8, 2023

Need Bayern to pull their finger out and do us a favour

Yagami · Nov 8, 2023

Oscar Bonavena said:
Commentator asking Savage what it's like to play with 10 men.......cnut was usually the one that was sent off!

Agila Dathi · Nov 8, 2023

Oscar Bonavena said:
Commentator asking Savage what it's like to play with 10 men.......cnut was usually the one that was sent off!

DomesticTadpole · Nov 8, 2023

Oscar Bonavena said:
Commentator asking Savage what it's like to play with 10 men.......cnut was usually the one that was sent off!

InspiRED · Nov 8, 2023

Oscar Bonavena said:
Commentator asking Savage what it's like to play with 10 men.......cnut was usually the one that was sent off!

Bobski · Nov 8, 2023

Is Scott showing more for the ball or are they more willing to pass it to him? Seems to have got the ball in tight spaces much more often tonight.

Pickle85 · Nov 8, 2023

We desperately lack creativity in the middle of the park

mu4c_20le · Nov 8, 2023

Rooney is going to come on and score. You just know it.

Plant0x84 · Nov 8, 2023

So who comes off our bench to score the winner? Will it be Antony, Mount or Martial?

RedDevilQuebecois · Nov 8, 2023

Irrational. said:
The Copenhagen manager looks like a painter and decorator that fecks off mid-job after taking your money.

Superunknown · Nov 8, 2023

Oscar Bonavena said:
Commentator asking Savage what it's like to play with 10 men.......cnut was usually the one that was sent off!

Jazz · Nov 8, 2023

Oscar Bonavena said:
Commentator asking Savage what it's like to play with 10 men.......cnut was usually the one that was sent off!

ErikElevenHag · Nov 8, 2023

RedDevilQuebecois said:
Their opinions are also matching what Preben Elkjær and Michael Laudrup said on Danish TV. Most former players don't see that as a red at all.

Only people with some form of agenda would think it's a red. It was clearly an accident, which can happen on a football pitch. Its incredibly harsh, but why would we expect anything else this season?

ScarleyUtd · Nov 8, 2023

We need to go for it a bit more here, keeping passing it back to the centre backs isn't going to get any momentum going.

Mike Smalling · Nov 8, 2023

Both our midfielders scared of turning with the ball to progress it. We’re not gonna create a lot.

Alex99 · Nov 8, 2023

A-man said:
Really? Where were the other 5 in this first half? It was a clear red.

Rashford was the only player that tried to shield the ball that half?

The outcome is what's decided this, and that shouldn't be the case.

CloneMC16 said:
When you shield the ball and your studs go into someone's ankle, that's given as a red. That definitely does not happen dozens of times a game.

That's a blatant red (in the current year) and I'm shocked at so many people saying it's not.

No it isn't.

Here are the reasons a referee can issue a red card:

Sending-off offences

A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off:

denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)

denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)

serious foul play

biting or spitting at someone

violent conduct

using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s)

receiving a second caution in the same match

entering the video operation room (VOR)

Rashford didn't deny a goal or obvious goal-scoring opportunity, didn't bite or spit, didn't use offensive language, didn't receive a second yellow, and didn't enter the video operation room.

That leaves us with it being either violent conduct or serious foul play.

Here's the definition of violent conduct:

Violent conduct
Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.

And it clearly wasn't that.

So that leaves serious foul play:

Serious foul play
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

Firstly, it wasn't even a tackle or challenge. He had possession of the ball and was shielding it. However he was challenged by the opponent.

Secondly, as I pointed out, that exact motion to shield the ball will happen many times a match. The only way it "endangers the safety of an opponent" is if an opponent is simply incredibly unlucky in how their own challenge positions their leg in relation to the player shielding the ball. It's a massive, massive stretch to try and fit shielding the ball into this definition of serious foul play.

It's there to stop players flying into tackles and then going "I won the ball" after glancing it slightly. Not punish a player because an opponent happened to stick his leg under their studs.

As for the rest of it, it wasn't "excessive force or brutality" and it wasn't a lunge.

Drifter · Nov 8, 2023

Containing and hoping for an opening

amolbhatia50k · Nov 8, 2023

Struggling to get ball out of defence. Also they’re getting past our attackers and midfield too easily

Who's Kissing Cameras? · Nov 8, 2023

Pickle85 said:
We desperately lack creativity in the middle of the park

We have 10 men.

RedDevilQuebecois · Nov 8, 2023

Oscar Bonavena said:
Commentator asking Savage what it's like to play with 10 men.......cnut was usually the one that was sent off!

Dayum!

Walters_19_MuFc · Nov 8, 2023

Wonder if its worth going 432, with the full backs getting forward?

Hojlund Martial
Mount Amrabat Bruno
Reguilon Maguire Varane Pellistri
Onana

El Zoido · Nov 8, 2023

Alex99 said:
Rashford was the only player that tried to shield the ball that half?

The outcome is what's decided this, and that shouldn't be the case.

No it isn't.

Here are the reasons a referee can issue a red card:

Rashford didn't deny a goal or obvious goal-scoring opportunity, didn't bite or spit, didn't use offensive language, didn't receive a second yellow, and didn't enter the video operation room.

That leaves us with it being either violent conduct or serious foul play.

Here's the definition of violent conduct:

And it clearly wasn't that.

So that leaves serious foul play:

Firstly, it wasn't even a tackle or challenge. He had possession of the ball and was shielding it. However he was challenged by the opponent.

Secondly, as I pointed out, that exact motion to shield the ball will happen many times a match. The only way it "endangers the safety of an opponent" is if an opponent is simply incredibly unlucky in how their own challenge positions their leg in relation to the player shielding the ball. It's a massive, massive stretch to try and fit shielding the ball into this definition of serious foul play.

It's there to stop players flying into tackles and then going "I won the ball" after glancing it slightly. Not punish a player because an opponent happened to stick his leg under their studs.

As for the rest of it, it wasn't "excessive force or brutality" and it wasn't a lunge.

Great post, and quite definitively puts to bed the idea that it should be a red card.

Roboc7 · Nov 8, 2023

Mike Smalling said:
Both our midfielders scared of turning with the ball to progress it. We’re not gonna create a lot.

Very noticeable they just want to pass backwards, it’s not good enough.

Ayoba · Nov 8, 2023

Need mount on for garnacho

2 man midfield · Nov 8, 2023

Block Harry

mu4c_20le · Nov 8, 2023

Get Garnacho off

Hester_manc · Nov 8, 2023

Roony coming on for Copenhagen - and that is bad news for us. He is 17 years old super talent.

KD6-3.7 · Nov 8, 2023

gaffs said:
A pitch invader.
3 goals
A sending off
And a guy nearly dying in the crowd!

Oh that explains it then. I turned the match on as Højlund scored his second. Just assumed it was down to more VAR nonsense.

Pickle85 · Nov 8, 2023

Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
We have 10 men.

Wow, thanks for that insightful update. I'm not sure how that invalidates what I said. Or are you delighted with our middle of the park creativity?

Walters_19_MuFc · Nov 8, 2023

Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
We have 10 men.

Other than tonight, that's not really made a difference.

Who's Kissing Cameras? · Nov 8, 2023

Pickle85 said:
Wow, thanks for that insightful update. I'm not sure how that invalidates what I said. Or are you delighted with our middle of the park creativity?

No, we are shite. Clearly creative in the first 40 mins however.

gaffs · Nov 8, 2023

doomy20 said:
So much whiners on here, it’s red in 10 out of 10 cases. Pen is „soft“ but also ok.

Problem is the collapsing, no need to collapse after a red card against Kopenhagen

I agree.

Nor were we playing like Brazil 70 before the sending off.

RedSky · Nov 8, 2023

Yeah, we're losing this game.

tomaldinho1 · Nov 8, 2023

Assuming Bayern beat Gala, a draw could be ok given the situation

ArjenIsM3 · Nov 8, 2023

RedSky said:
Yeah, we're losing this game.

Obviously.

Ayoba · Nov 8, 2023

No way Rooney is 17!! Looks at least 25 :lol:

DJ Jeff · Nov 8, 2023

RedSky said:
Yeah, we're losing this game.

Only question is will it be 3-2 or 4-2

Licha-Vidic · Nov 8, 2023

amolbhatia50k said:
Struggling to get ball out of defence. Also they’re getting past our attackers and midfield too easily

People were attacking Spurs, with how they played on Monday with 9 men.

Dazzmondo · Nov 8, 2023

Bringing on their wonderkid Roony

Champions League Group A

FC Copenhagen 4:3 Manchester United

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Shame we’re aren’t more like Brighton

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Just in case anyone missed it. I don't like Mount.

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