I'm still not sure why you want Nintendo to fail, but I guess that's just you.
Oh and you are saying Nintendo can't financially compete to make a decent new console, well maybe that makes the DS relevant to this conversation after all.
Not looking good for the Wii is it?
- Thread starter WeasteDevil
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
I'm still not sure why you want Nintendo to fail, but I guess that's just you.
Oh and you are saying Nintendo can't financially compete to make a decent new console, well maybe that makes the DS relevant to this conversation after all.
Point A: PS2 didn't have any real contenders for its crown at that point so why are you comparing the PS2 sales to this situation?
Point B: Perhaps you should contact Sony and tell them to price their machine down and then perhaps they'd blow Mircrosoft out of the water next time eh?
Point C: Nintendo saw the opportunity to launch a new market which they've done successfully. It must have been a good idea considering both Sony and Microsoft are now playing catchup.
Point D: The market is still there, but I'd say the Wii is on its last legs. It's pretty much sold all the consoles it can. Microsoft and Sony will take over.
Point E: Can't argue against that. But they're in limbo between machines at the momment.
Point F: Pure conjecture. As a United fan you should know that you can never write a team/company off. Lets wait and see what Nintendo have up their sleeves with their next console before writing them off eh?
Point G: I'd agree with that. As someone close to the industry the Wii is never really considered due to its poor hardware. However, it's all dependant on the game and the target audience they're shooting for. Party games = Wii. Serious gaming = Xbox360/PS3. Theres a market for both and party games have surprisingly good sale figures. God knows why because the majority of them are shit
Point A: PS2 didn't have any real contenders for its crown at that point so why are you comparing the PS2 sales to this situation?
Point B: Perhaps you should contact Sony and tell them to price their machine down and then perhaps they'd blow Mircrosoft out of the water next time eh?
Point C: Nintendo saw the opportunity to launch a new market which they've done successfully. It must have been a good idea considering both Sony and Microsoft are now playing catchup.
Point D: The market is still there, but I'd say the Wii is on its last legs. It's pretty much sold all the consoles it can. Microsoft and Sony will take over.
Point E: Can't argue against that. But they're in limbo between machines at the momment.
Point F: Pure conjecture. As a United fan you should know that you can never write a team/company off. Lets wait and see what Nintendo have up their sleeves with their next console before writing them off eh?
Point G: I'd agree with that. As someone close to the industry the Wii is never really considered due to its poor hardware. However, it's all dependant on the game and the target audience they're shooting for. Party games = Wii. Serious gaming = Xbox360/PS3. Theres a market for both and party games have surprisingly good sale figures. God knows why because the majority of them are shit
Good post. Just proves my point that situations like this can be twisted depending on what side of the argument you are.
I'm still not sure why Weaste dislikes Nintendo so much, but I've got a feeling it's to do with their name not starting with a S and ending with a Y.
Well, there's a shock. Once again no answer
I've given you answers, it's simply not the answer that you want. Wii sales in both software and hardware are taking a nosedive. The main 3rd parties are pulling out of the system. Nintendo is now starting to lose money, and is different to the other two in that it doesn't have any other businesses to prop it up, so it's now eating into its cash reserves. This then forces their hands into releasing a successor to Wii long before the other two are ready to move.
So what happens? If they do not have a unique selling point, they will at best be releasing a Wii2 with around the same technical prowess as XB360 and PS3, or at least in that ballpark. They then have to get 3rd parties involved, because they cannot support the machine on their own. If the machine has a normal GPU, then maybe they can persuade the 3rd parties to port the XB360 and PS3 games to the new Nintendo machine. If not, the 3rd parties will tell Nintendo quite frankly that they are making enough of a buck selling their XB360 and PS3 games, onto consoles where it has been made clear that there is not going to be any shift to something new for quite some time, and can't be arsed having to go through the rigmarole of getting their development teams to learn a new (or probably in Nintendo's case overclocked old) architecture that doesn't easily fit.
So, the Wii shelves in the game shops will be of an ever decreasing size, and the shelf for the new console will have two Nintendo made games sat on it.
I don't dislike Nintendo, I love Nintendo for what they are in terms of their core software. So there's another stupid comment that you have made.
Do you just skip entire posts on purpose? Once again you've answered none of my relevant points in this area and continue to go around in circles.
You are like the lone man in a heatwave insisting to others that the rain is coming soon. Then 2 months later when it drizzles, you claim to be right all along.
As stupid as using words like "doomed" and phrases like "shot it's load way too soon"?
As stupid as ignoring questions you don't want to answer, and brushing anything off as irrelevant that you don't want to debate?
As stupid as basing this latest round of complete tosh based on sales of one game - one that isn't even the same on the Wii as it is on the other systems?
As stupid as overlooking total game sales, because even with the global recession and drastic drops, it still outdoes your favourite machine?
PS2 had the Dreamcast release before it. Gamecube wasn't really that different to XB360 and PS3 launch windows. I'm comparing the PS2 sales in this situation because it is the best selling console in history, and the Wii has up to now slaughtered it if you align their launches. The difference is that PS2 had legs.
It can be argued that they should have released a PS2+ if you like, but it's a different argument. PS3 was over-engineered and carried technologies for the benefit of Sony as a whole, rather than just the gaming division. PS4 will come out of the gate very cheap.
Nobody denies that, however they created a new market. It's a shame that they didn't pay enough attention to the old one.
I don't think that the Wii market is dead, it's just slowing down very rapidly.
Yes, the losses could be down to what they are spending in R&D.
Well we know that Sony is only just about making money on a 250 quid PS3, so to get in that ballpark, they will be selling a new machine around that price without losing money on the hardware. If they want to go above XB360 and PS3, the price will be higher. They are asking around $300 for the 3DS in Japan I think.
Point G: I'd agree with that. As someone close to the industry the Wii is never really considered due to its poor hardware. However, it's all dependant on the game and the target audience they're shooting for. Party games = Wii. Serious gaming = Xbox360/PS3. Theres a market for both and party games have surprisingly good sale figures. God knows why because the majority of them are shit
New market, but now the 3rd parties can port those titles backwards with Move and Kinect, you can't port COD the other way.
It has shot its load way too soon, you can see that comparing it to the PS2. It's on a drastic decline.
You don't want to debate, you simply want to take the thing off at all sorts of tangents. Maybe you should shut your mouth and leave the thread if you don't like the facts?
You're a fool because you keep bringing PS3 into this, when it has nothing to do with the PS3 which hasn't even hit mass market price yet. All you can do is try to make out that I have a PS3 agenda here, rather than actually debating the issue at hand, and that is that Wii in terms of hardware and software is taking a nose-dive, which leads to Nintendo's hand being forced.
The thread is based on the problem with 3rd party support for the Wii, and was made long before any sales figures for FIFA 11. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if the game is the same or not, it's a major franchise, and it just sold 8,000 to almost a million in comparison. It sold basically what the PS2 version sold, and I think this is the last year the PS2 will get a FIFA. Why should EA bother? I know, lets go and make another fitness game, no another dancing game, to compete with the masses of similar games that already exist, I'm sure they are thinking that!
With Wii Sports bundled with every machine it will. But again you miss the point that it's not about machines, it's about markets. Add XB360 and PS3 together, and it becomes a different thing.
...and here we are, full circle yet again.
The only thing that could possibly make this more boring now is if we started arguing in the bond issue thread.
You still have yet to tell me why you don't work for Nintendo, seeing as you think you see their future and it's one they didn't know about. I bet they'd pay you handsomely for telling them things like this!
Then again, maybe not since you were predicting from the off that the Wii was just a gimmick anyway
Xbox 360 comes bundled with at least 1 game too. Normally the game thats best selling. I bought my Xbox360 with GTA4. Its sound business sense to sell the console with at least 1 game attached, nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone does it. So thats a void argument.
If Sony don't do it then they're bloody idiots frankly.
...and here we are, full circle yet again.
The only thing that could possibly make this more boring now is if we started arguing in the bond issue thread.
You still have yet to tell me why you don't work for Nintendo, seeing as you think you see their future and it's one they didn't know about. I bet they'd pay you handsomely for telling them things like this!
Then again, maybe not since you were predicting from the off that the Wii was just a gimmick anyway
Admit it, you love these arguments don't you?
Mine came with a crappy Blu-ray film!
The Wii is starting to lose it's grip in Japan and the US. It'll be interesting to see what they do with their next console. The 360 and PS3 now have Kinect and Move (I've yet to get move, not interested in motion gaming and I think it's way over-priced) so they're going to have to come up with something different to those two again. If they try to compete they'll be blown out the water. Literally.
Hasn't the PS3 sold more than the Wii in Japan this year? I'm fairly sure I read an article the other week.
Yes, and XB360 is outselling it in the US.
I'll go one better, I'll even admit to agreeing most of what you are saying!
However, I still find it very amusing that the very month you started this thread, the Wii outdid the PS3 in all areas. Again.
Oh great, Elvis is here. This'll go well.
I won't be here long, I have to leave soon.
Well you've got about three pages of spasticity from last night to catch up on. Unless you've got Weaste on Ignore, in which case it was a healthy debate
Sony really do have a habit of fecking their fans in the head
Elvis, i'm thinking that nintendo will go down the 3d route next. We've experimented with a simple 3d shader in Crysis and it works nicely. The advantage of using a shader is it allows you to simply design the game as normal then simply click "3d settings: yes" in the menu, no more work involved. So as a feature, its very cost effective to add in.
Its how Nintendo can then develop that into a gameplay feature to push along the interaction of the Wii. Call it intuition, but I have a feeling that Nintendo are going to surprise alot of people with their next console. More so than when the Wii was first released.
I'll go one better, I'll even admit to agreeing most of what you are saying!
However, I still find it very amusing that the very month you started this thread, the Wii outdid the PS3 in all areas. Again.
November will be an interesting month for sure. GT5 ought to shift a hell of a lot of consoles.
Sony really do have a habit of fecking their fans in the head
Elvis, i'm thinking that nintendo will go down the 3d route next. We've experimented with a simple 3d shader in Crysis and it works nicely. The advantage of using a shader is it allows you to simply design the game as normal then simply click "3d settings: yes" in the menu, no more work involved. So as a feature, its very cost effective to add in.
Its how Nintendo can then develop that into a gameplay feature to push along the interaction of the Wii. Call it intuition, but I have a feeling that Nintendo are going to surprise alot of people with their next console. More so than when the Wii was first released.
Meh, again 3D gaming much like 3D television doesn't really bother me. You're N64 thread inspired me to download an emulator for that and the snes and I've honestly had more fun playing through some of the older games than I have playing a lot of the more modern ones. I just wish it went back to the games rather than the graphics/3D/online etc.
If it outsells the Wii, do you think Weaste's head will explode?
I like the fact that Nintendo seem to keep coming back and innovating. People thought the PSP would kill the DS, Nintendo had an inferior machine with strange touch screen controls, but it has proved succesful.
They did a similar thing with the Wii against the PS3/Xbox, an inferior machine with waggle controls and it has proved succesful.
Now they have the 3DS on the horizon with a 3D screen and no need for glasses and what looks like graphical capabilities beyond the Wii. They are incorporating movies into the design and if they can get a broadband tv service going with the likes of sky then you could potentially have portable 3D tv with no need for glasses.
If they have a new home console in the wings then I'm sure it will be innovative and will capture a large market share. They can't compete with Sony and Microsoft in terms of subsidising expensive graphical and hard drive capabilities, but they seem to be outsmarting them (at least short term) when it comes to capturing the public's imagination and money.
They did a similar thing with the Wii against the PS3/Xbox, an inferior machine with waggle controls and it has proved succesful.
Now they have the 3DS on the horizon with a 3D screen and no need for glasses and what looks like graphical capabilities beyond the Wii. They are incorporating movies into the design and if they can get a broadband tv service going with the likes of sky then you could potentially have portable 3D tv with no need for glasses.
If they have a new home console in the wings then I'm sure it will be innovative and will capture a large market share. They can't compete with Sony and Microsoft in terms of subsidising expensive graphical and hard drive capabilities, but they seem to be outsmarting them (at least short term) when it comes to capturing the public's imagination and money.
Gotta say, I shared your opinion on 3d gaming/tv until I actually gave it a go. Then I realised that its actually very, very good.
What I and many other people would love, is to have a WoW style game, in 3d with an interactive fighting system. Now that would be very fun. Espically if you could split screen.
Imagine doing that in your living room heh.
Why do you keep bringing portable systems into this? This isn't about portable systems!
By expanding the market. They have totally failed in the old market.
Again, you are back on about portables. The reason that 3D screen works is because only one person can see it, as, well, it's a portable. Movies and TV on the move didn't shift the PSP, it flopped in the mobile phone market, and now you are talking about 3D movies and TV on the move? Again, this isn't about portables.
What exactly are they going to do to innovate? As for the bolded part, they have not cut into that at all, it's bigger than it ever was. That's why the argument is about markets, not machines.
The only point I can be bothered to pick up on now is this whole expanded market and market share thing.
Although they still outsell the PS3 and total sales are way above in both hardware and software terms, why are you so sure that this is in any way bad for Nintendo? As i've asked you a number of times before, what makes you so sure that Nintendo rather than being forced to, actually had a gameplan in the event this all happened last year? (which is when I would have thought it would start to slide myself, this year has proved me wrong though!). They aren't stupid and although they've started making some losses, it's recession probably coupled with increased R&D and manufacturing costs (remember they have new hardware out early next year) that has hit them.
In terms of market share, which you are talking, surely they have plenty to be heading into another generation with? I mean whether you want to try to separate the markets or not, the Wii has sold nearly the same and the PS3 and 360 combined. That is an important point.
Although they still outsell the PS3 and total sales are way above in both hardware and software terms, why are you so sure that this is in any way bad for Nintendo? As i've asked you a number of times before, what makes you so sure that Nintendo rather than being forced to, actually had a gameplan in the event this all happened last year? (which is when I would have thought it would start to slide myself, this year has proved me wrong though!). They aren't stupid and although they've started making some losses, it's recession probably coupled with increased R&D and manufacturing costs (remember they have new hardware out early next year) that has hit them.
In terms of market share, which you are talking, surely they have plenty to be heading into another generation with? I mean whether you want to try to separate the markets or not, the Wii has sold nearly the same and the PS3 and 360 combined. That is an important point.
I don't understand why people are thinking that GT5 is going to do a COD or Halo and sell a zillion out of the gate, it's never done that. It's a slow burner due to its target demographic.
Actually I lied, I'll pick up on this one too.
Why are you asking people to speculate on what they are going to do? Are you saying that there's nothing left to innovate, or that Nintendo haven't got it in them to do so?
What if they do make a machine specifically for some sort of 3D (without the need for a special telly) that is about as powerful as the current gen (which is cheaper to do now than four years ago)? They'd be hitting the market well before any new Sony/M$ machine. Would you put it past them to do something like that?
I'm interested in what you think, partially of course. Put the little Sony mental block in your back pocket for a bit, and throw some ideas out here.
I was just talking about innovations by Nintendo. For years consoles have been about improved graphics. Nintendo realised that there was a different way forward by altering the control interface, rather than getting involved in a graphics war.
This has paid off for them with the DS and Wii, regardless of shelf life.
I mentioned the portables because I think they are part of the trend Nintendo seems to have taken. Would they have launched the Wii if people had shied away from the untraditional controls of the Ds?
You say that tv and movies on the move flopped in the mobile phone/psp market. Now that Apple have introduced it in the Ipod and Ipad, the casual crowd that you're adamant Nintendo produce for might just lap it up. Especially with 3D as a gimmick!
If Nintendo hadn't outsmarted Microsoft and Sony, then why have they both jumped on the motion bandwagon? They're trying to snatch the new customer base that Nintendo have created, if your argument about the Wii is correct then it's too late because the consumers have got bored with waving their arms at the tv.
PS3 specific fans, whether you can see it or not, are a vastly different breed to even those on the PS2. You all want GT5 to beat Forza and M$ so much that I very much doubt it's going to do anything less than shift rapidly!
I'm not saying it'll hit Halo sales out of the gate, but we have all been waiting for this game for 6 years remember.
The thing is 3rd party market share for 3rd party games that are not shovelware or copymii. Look again at those numbers, on XB360 alone, 3rd parties sell more, and make more. Just Dance is selling gangbusters, but how many of those type of games can a platform support?
Unless Nintendo put in a Direct X 9 class GPU in their next machine, which will come soon, porting again becomes a total headache. The big 3rd party stuff that they have ported to Wii in the main doesn't sell, so they will not bother when they make so much money from XB360 and PS3.
Look at Need For Speed, Criterion haven't made the Wii version, they can't. So EA in their wisdom gets another developer to do it. God knows what it will come out like, or how similar it will be, but for EA's sake, I hope that it sells more than 8,000 copies in its first week.
Yes, yes, yes. You are of course right about 3rd party, but we've been through this and it doesn't answer my point.
For me it's going to be a bit longer
I remember just after I first got it, doing the license tests 'which really are one of the best things about it' and trying to do that Nurburgring lap to finish. fecking hours I wasted on that bastard.
Don't think I ever got over 60% completion. Think I had over 300 cars and apart from a couple of R34's not many were the same. Loved the Amuse GT1 so easy to drive.
But alas for a different thread.
Something to rile Lambs up a little more....
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23621978&postcount=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23621978&postcount=1
I've just bought a ps3, declined the playstation move for an extra £15 but tbh I see it a bit too gimicky like the wii itself...I can't see what wii can offer that others can't now
Having had a nerdbox for about 5 years the ps3 takes some getting used too...it feels like a better piece of kit but the interface has a few minor annoyances (when it gives me a message off a friend it's tiny in the right corner and it's easy to miss for e.g.) On the plus side I like the browser, wireless card, bluray etc
Oh yeah back on topic ...Wii's had it
Having had a nerdbox for about 5 years the ps3 takes some getting used too...it feels like a better piece of kit but the interface has a few minor annoyances (when it gives me a message off a friend it's tiny in the right corner and it's easy to miss for e.g.) On the plus side I like the browser, wireless card, bluray etc
Oh yeah back on topic ...Wii's had it
The old model is built like a tank. Shame that they had to change it to cut costs. When you pick it up the sheer weight of it says, "hello, I'm serious".