Kobbie Mainoo (out)

[cpresc]

I can't shake the feeling that if we get a big offer for Mainoo this summer and turn it down, we're going to come to regret it in a few years.

He's a very talented young player but his lack of mobility is a pretty major limiting factor in any side playing a double pivot in midfield. Mainoo's at his best in the opposition half which leaves you wide open on the counter. We saw this time and time again under Ten Hag.

Further, he doesn't really work as one of the attacking midfielders in Amorim's 3-4-3 either because whilst he's exceptional at retaining possession in tight spaces, he's not got great acceleration and isn't a creative powerhouse either.

I think the issue with Mainoo is that whilst he's very talented, we'd essentially have to build the team around nullifying his physical limitations or else we're going to leave massive gaps in the centre of the pitch which will completely prevent us from winning games on a consistent basis. With that in mind, I'm not so sure it'd be sensible for us to be turning down a huge offer for him this summer that could give us the leeway to bring in two or three players.

Sounds like Pogba

 

[Hammondo]

He’s done loads more than Yoro, what are you talking about

Yoro looks a better prospect.

 

[G97]

It's funny, I had a lengthy argument in the Zirkzee thread trying to justify that 100k p/w is an appropriate salary for a rotation CF for United (maybe a touch overpaid but whatver) and the other poster's line we'd need to subsidize his wage by 50%+ to send him off on loan to PL clubs because they couldn't afford that wage.

Anyway, this was during the Zirkzee low point and he has since turned it around. I doubt people would still make that claim now. I agree that about 100k p/w is appropriate for Mainoo easily.

Steady.
Guys not even in the Netherlands squad. A team where their main striker is one of our worst players post Ferguson

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Sounds like Pogba

It's going to sound like I've got a real downer on Mainoo when I say this, and I really don't, but I honestly don't think he's as big a talent as Pogba was.

Again, that isn't meant to be a criticism of Mainoo but more a reflection of just how good Pogba was when he was young. He was a phenomenally talented midfielder and, whilst he lacked a bit of mobility as well, he was also a more gifted athlete than Mainoo I think.

 

[Hammondo]

It's going to sound like I've got a real downer on Mainoo when I say this, and I really don't, but I honestly don't think he's as big a talent as Pogba was.

Again, that isn't meant to be a criticism of Mainoo but more a reflection of just how good Pogba was when he was young. He was a phenomenally talented midfielder and, whilst he lacked a bit of mobility as well, he was also a more gifted athlete than Mainoo I think.

But Mainoo could have a better mentality. If he doesn't improve his stamina and passing then it's done either way.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

But Mainoo could have a better mentality. If he doesn't improve his stamina and passing then it's done either way.

Quite possibly. To be clear, I have no issues with Mainoo's personality. He seems like he's got a great head on his shoulders. I never really disliked Pogba either; I thought, at times, he was treated quite unfairly.

I do think, though, that Mainoo's physical limitations aren't something he'll overcome as easily as some in here are suggesting though. I think for me, the bigger worry isn't so much his stamina but the fact that he isn't very fast. I think it's pretty rare that a midfielder with such a lack of pace flourishes in a double pivot unless they're big and strong.

 

[Hammondo]

Quite possibly. To be clear, I have no issues with Mainoo's personality. He seems like he's got a great head on his shoulders. I never really disliked Pogba either; I thought, at times, he was treated quite unfairly.

I do think, though, that Mainoo's physical limitations aren't something he'll overcome as easily as some in here are suggesting though. I think for me, the bigger worry isn't so much his stamina but the fact that he isn't very fast. I think it's pretty rare that a midfielder with such a lack of pace flourishes in a double pivot unless they're big and strong.

He would need to be more like scholes, or he needs to be more like iniesta (I'm not saying as good as them, just those types). I don't think he has close to what he needs to be scholes, but he also needs to improve to be iniesta and move to a 10.

 

[Posh Red]

It's going to sound like I've got a real downer on Mainoo when I say this, and I really don't, but I honestly don't think he's as big a talent as Pogba was.

Again, that isn't meant to be a criticism of Mainoo but more a reflection of just how good Pogba was when he was young. He was a phenomenally talented midfielder and, whilst he lacked a bit of mobility as well, he was also a more gifted athlete than Mainoo I think.

That’s hardly a huge criticism.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

That’s hardly a huge criticism.

Absolutely - it wasn't meant as one. I just know that Pogba's not always particularly popular amongst United fans.

 

[buckooo1978]

If we can't come to an agreement on contract we should sell. Simple as that.

hopefully we can come to an agreement and we have some breathing room as he has 2 years so maybe not a huge rush on this.

Get the feeling Ratcliffe's United will be much more prudent with wages across the board.

 

[Sandikan]

I said 30k a year!

haha, now I know you're about 70 years out!

 

[Borussia Teeth]

So, people think he's only worth a salary of £40-50k pw but people also think he has a transfer value of £60-70m???

Doesn't add up to me

 

[Smores]

So, people think he's only worth a salary of £40-50k pw but people also think he has a transfer value of £60-70m???

Doesn't add up to me

I doubt anyone is paying £70 million for Mainoo, that's probably the value we'd consider selling though.

Besides transfer value means very little, that's about potential of a youth player. His contract shouldn't reflect what he might become in 5 years, it should reflect what he's delivering today and in the near future. I'd give him a small bump and say perform and you'll get another bump next season. If they want to feck around he can stay on his current salary.

 

[Marwood]

I can't shake the feeling that if we get a big offer for Mainoo this summer and turn it down, we're going to come to regret it in a few years.

He's a very talented young player but his lack of mobility is a pretty major limiting factor in any side playing a double pivot in midfield. Mainoo's at his best in the opposition half which leaves you wide open on the counter. We saw this time and time again under Ten Hag.

Further, he doesn't really work as one of the attacking midfielders in Amorim's 3-4-3 either because whilst he's exceptional at retaining possession in tight spaces, he's not got great acceleration and isn't a creative powerhouse either.

I think the issue with Mainoo is that whilst he's very talented, we'd essentially have to build the team around nullifying his physical limitations or else we're going to leave massive gaps in the centre of the pitch which will completely prevent us from winning games on a consistent basis. With that in mind, I'm not so sure it'd be sensible for us to be turning down a huge offer for him this summer that could give us the leeway to bring in two or three players.

I think you're drawing lots of conclusions about a teenager.


He isn't a creative powerhouse. Who was at 18/19? Probably a handful if players over the last thirty years.

Far too much is made of his pace and athleticism as well. In a functioning team where players compliment each other his physicality is fine.

All players except a few have limitations and need other players to provide what they can't.

Patience is needed. You're expecting the almost impossible from a player his age.

 

[Hammondo]

I think you're drawing lots of conclusions about a teenager.


He isn't a creative powerhouse. Who was at 18/19? Probably a handful if players over the last thirty years.

Far too much is made of his pace and athleticism as well. In a functioning team where players compliment each other his physicality is fine.

All players except a few have limitations and need other players to provide what they can't.

Patience is needed. You're expecting the almost impossible from a player his age.

Creative powerhouse? He's basically not creative at all, 1 assist in the pl total.

He can't last 90 mins properly in the pl, that's pretty poor.

 

[userman]

He’s done loads more than Yoro, what are you talking about

One could argue that Yoro looks like a greater prospect though, and/or a better fit to our style of play right now at least..
It makes good sense with parity between the two I would say. They're the same age and if we renew Mainoo to 2029(+1) like Yoro's contract, it's in the cards that another renenwal with further improved terms will follow in a few seasons if he developes as we all hope. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Marwood]

Creative powerhouse? He's basically not creative at all, 1 assist in the pl total.

He can't last 90 mins properly in the pl, that's pretty poor.

Pointing out he isn't a creative powerhouse shouldn't even be in the discussion. He's a teenager. It'd be insane for him to already be at that level.

Reminder. At his age Scholes and Beckham hadn't made or had only just made their debuts.

Perspective has been lost by a few.

 

[Brophs]

He’s had a bad season, which hasn’t been helped by the leaking of his contract demands, but this is still the same guy who absolutely bossed it for England in the Euros at 19. He’s quality. He has his flaws, but show me young player that doesn’t.

Don’t let dickwits like Ratcliffe convince you that selling guys like Mainoo makes any sort of sense.

 

[Oranges038]

I think you're drawing lots of conclusions about a teenager.


He isn't a creative powerhouse. Who was at 18/19? Probably a handful if players over the last thirty years.

Far too much is made of his pace and athleticism as well. In a functioning team where players compliment each other his physicality is fine.

All players except a few have limitations and need other players to provide what they can't.

Patience is needed. You're expecting the almost impossible from a player his age.

People have unrealistic expectations of him and pretty much everyone young player. Overhyped or written off too quickly, there doesn't seem to be anything in between..

 

[Hammondo]

Pointing out he isn't a creative powerhouse shouldn't even be in the discussion. He's a teenager. It'd be insane for him to already be at that level.

Reminder. At his age Scholes and Beckham hadn't made or had only just made their debuts.

Perspective has been lost by a few.

That's fair enough but didn't scholes score in his debut? Twice?

Anyway it's not really about age as it is talent, and he's not showing that much.

 

[Marwood]

That's fair enough but didn't scholes score in his debut? Twice?

Anyway it's not really about age as it is talent, and he's not showing that much.

That's a crazy statement.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He’s had a bad season, which hasn’t been helped by the leaking of his contract demands, but this is still the same guy who absolutely bossed it for England in the Euros at 19. He’s quality. He has his flaws, but show me young player that doesn’t.

Don’t let dickwits like Ratcliffe convince you that selling guys like Mainoo makes any sort of sense.

I have no problem with that. Just look at the recent academy graduates and there’s a really bad pattern of characters there from Januzaj, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford, Greenwood. Garnacho’s definitely been made some transgressions aswell.

Our academy is the pride of the club, that doesn’t mean though that because your an academy graduate that your sacred.
If you’re not pulling your weight or upholding the values of the club you should expect to get axed.

 

[Brophs]

I have no problem with that. Just look at the recent academy graduates and there’s a really bad pattern of characters there from Januzaj, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford, Greenwood. Garnacho’s definitely been made some transgressions aswell.

Our academy is the pride of the club, that doesn’t mean though that because your an academy graduate that your sacred.
If you’re not pulling your weight or upholding the values of the club you should expect to get axed.

You seem to be arguing against something I haven’t said.

I’m also curious in what way Mainoo isn’t upholding the values of the club.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Pointing out he isn't a creative powerhouse shouldn't even be in the discussion. He's a teenager. It'd be insane for him to already be at that level.

Reminder. At his age Scholes and Beckham hadn't made or had only just made their debuts.

Perspective has been lost by a few.

OK yes, "creative powerhouse" was the wrong way to phrase it. @Hammondo is correct - the better way to have phrased it would've been to say that he simply isn't a creative player.

My point in saying that he's "not a creative powerhouse" was simply that he's not creative enough to play as one of the wide forwards in our system, given that he also lacks the explosive speed to really trouble defenders by running in behind. Again, I admit that my wording was clumsy, but I maintain entirely that the point behind it is sound.

 

[Orange Tree]

I would love to see him make it here, far from the finished product, but the potential is there. Still, if we can't come to agreement, then sell.

Hopefully we can use the money and invest in other talented young players.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

People have unrealistic expectations of him and pretty much everyone young player. Overhyped or written off too quickly, there doesn't seem to be anything in between..

Everything I've said so far has nothing to do with my expectations of Mainoo (I think he's a very talented player and have said as much multiple times) and everything to do with the fact that I don't see a role for him in the team. Furthermore, I think his physical limitations (primary among those his lack of pace) pretty considerably limit the ways that you can effectively set the team up when he's in it, and I'm not convinced that it's going to be simple for him to overcome them.

Basically, my position is that a transfer for Mainoo could end up being beneficial for all parties. I'm not convinced he fits in our system but I think he's a very talented young player with lots of potential if he's played in a team that suits him.

 

[Oranges038]

Everything I've said so far has nothing to do with my expectations of Mainoo (I think he's a very talented player and have said as much multiple times) and everything to do with the fact that I don't see a role for him in the team. Furthermore, I think his physical limitations (primary among those his lack of pace) pretty considerably limit the ways that you can effectively set the team up when he's in it, and I'm not convinced that it's going to be simple for him to overcome them.

Basically, my position is that a transfer for Mainoo could end up being beneficial for all parties. I'm not convinced he fits in our system but I think he's a very talented young player with lots of potential if he's played in a team that suits him.

He's still only 19 ffs, he's probably one of the most technically gifted footballers to come through the Utd academy in a long time.

Give the lad a chance to grow his game, the physical and mental side of his game and see if he can adapt to different roles.

 

[Hammondo]

That's a crazy statement.

I know a lot of others disagree, but imo what he is good at is something we rarely get at United, which makes it look a bit better than it is.

 

[Hammondo]

You seem to be arguing against something I haven’t said.

I’m also curious in what way Mainoo isn’t upholding the values of the club.

Mainoo seems to have a good attitude. I can't imagine what the criticism there would be.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

He's still only 19 ffs, he's probably one of the most technically gifted footballers to come through the Utd academy in a long time.

Give the lad a chance to grow his game, the physical and mental side of his game and see if he can adapt to different roles.

I don't dispute Mainoo's technical ability. It's exceedingly rare to find a player who's as adept in tight spaces as Mainoo.

My concern with him is that his physical limitations aren't something I think he'll be able to overcome easily at all. The stamina point is less of a concern to me because that is something I think he'll improve. What bothers me is that he's completely lacking in pace, and to be honest I don't suddenly think he's going to develop that. I cannot think of a player who was slow at 19 who grew to be really fast. Likewise, he's also very unlikely at this point to grow to the point where he's big enough that the lack of quickness becomes less of an issue.

If our squad was in a much better place, I think I'd agree with you that we might want to take the chance and see how he develops. Unfortunately, with so many improvements being needed right now, I don't think we have that luxury.

 

[Spoony]

You seem to be arguing against something I haven’t said.

I’m also curious in what way Mainoo isn’t upholding the values of the club.

Need excuses to sell him and fund the next waster. It's mental how quickly this place turns on players.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Need excuses to sell him and fund the next waster. It's mental how quickly this place turns on players.

I think this wording implies something needlessly sinister going on here. @Hammondo can correct me if I'm wrong here but the point that both of us are making here is that Mainoo has limitations that render him somewhat unsuitable to the style of football that Amorim is going to want to implement at United, and further that these limitations are exceedingly difficult to overcome.

I really should stress at this point that I have NOTHING against Mainoo as a player or person. I think he's a very talented young player who seemingly has a great head on his shoulders. I'm simply not convinced he fits with the system we're trying to build towards.

 

[AjaxCunian]

I think this wording implies something needlessly sinister going on here. @Hammondo can correct me if I'm wrong here but the point that both of us are making here is that Mainoo has limitations that render him somewhat unsuitable to the style of football that Amorim is going to want to implement at United, and further that these limitations are exceedingly difficult to overcome.

I really should stress at this point that I have NOTHING against Mainoo as a player or person. I think he's a very talented young player who seemingly has a great head on his shoulders. I'm simply not convinced he fits with the system we're trying to build towards.

You haven't said much wrong, not sure what the other posters are on about. Just because he is 19 doesn't mean he can still be the next Messi. In his recent years, he hasnt been known as a creative player fit to play as a CAM. He did produce a bit more in the youth levels but that was as a midfielder.

He isn't fast, explosive or creative enough. Neither does he have great finishing/shooting, he will still develop into a fantastic player. He was great for England at the Euro's, it seems he plays better in a midfield 3 than a midfield 2. This isn't about turning on him.

 

[Oranges038]

I don't dispute Mainoo's technical ability. It's exceedingly rare to find a player who's as adept in tight spaces as Mainoo.

My concern with him is that his physical limitations aren't something I think he'll be able to overcome easily at all. The stamina point is less of a concern to me because that is something I think he'll improve. What bothers me is that he's completely lacking in pace, and to be honest I don't suddenly think he's going to develop that. I cannot think of a player who was slow at 19 who grew to be really fast. Likewise, he's also very unlikely at this point to grow to the point where he's big enough that the lack of quickness becomes less of an issue.

If our squad was in a much better place, I think I'd agree with you that we might want to take the chance and see how he develops. Unfortunately, with so many improvements being needed right now, I don't think we have that luxury.

I don't get this obsession with his speed. He's got an average top speed of 28/30 kmph. That's fine, it's acceleration over the first 5 or 10 yards that is more of an issue than his overall speed. That can be improved on, along witht his endurance and ability to maintain high intensity running over longer periods.

It's not a luxury to give a kid a chance to develop his potential, Utd have already invested years into his development, he's been a standout player at times and had already gone to an international and been one of Englands better players.

Why not give him more chances to develop into a better player?

He's probably never going to rack up 20 goals and assists a season, but he can be just as important as someone who does. I'm not saying he'll be as good as Iniesta. But there was a player who rarely clocked much more than 10 to 12 g/a per season, he wasn't particularly fast but he was as important to Barcelona as Xavi and Messi were.

 

[RedSky]

Pretty clear that if we want to be able to turn this club round part of that is stopping giving our young players insane wages based on a few months of form.

We will at some point need to make an example of a player and if that's Mainoo then so be it.

 

[Marwood]

OK yes, "creative powerhouse" was the wrong way to phrase it. @Hammondo is correct - the better way to have phrased it would've been to say that he simply isn't a creative player.

My point in saying that he's "not a creative powerhouse" was simply that he's not creative enough to play as one of the wide forwards in our system, given that he also lacks the explosive speed to really trouble defenders by running in behind. Again, I admit that my wording was clumsy, but I maintain entirely that the point behind it is sound.

You've barely seen him play as a 10 in this system.

I think you're majorly jumping the gun by judging a teenager but on top of that you've at least got to give him a chance in a role before deciding he can't play it.

I think his finishing is good, he's obviously very good in tight spaces, can beat players in congested areas. His decision making in the offensive third is good.

A lot of stuff suitable for the 10 spot.

I know a lot of others disagree, but imo what he is good at is something we rarely get at United, which makes it look a bit better than it is.

You said he hasn't shown much talent. That's quite different from the above.

You don't play CM at 18 for United and England without showing much talent.

 

[Hammondo]

You've barely seen him play as a 10 in this system.

I think you're majorly jumping the gun by judging a teenager but on top of that you've at least got to give him a chance in a role before deciding he can't play it.

I think his finishing is good, he's obviously very good in tight spaces, can beat players in congested areas. His decision making in the offensive third is good.

A lot of stuff suitable for the 10 spot.



You said he hasn't shown much talent. That's quite different from the above.

You don't play CM at 18 for United and England without showing much talent.

No what I said is the same, I am saying he hasn't shown that much talent, it just appears that way because its something we often lack.


He has played for us and England due to a huge lack of competition. I imagine next season we will have another player for our first 11 instead.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

You seem to be arguing against something I haven’t said.

I’m also curious in what way Mainoo isn’t upholding the values of the club.

Selling Mainoo for 70m does make some sense though if you take you emotions out of it.
Mainoo isn’t a key player for us, he’s a back-up for now and 70m for a squad player is a very good opportunity considering our financial situation.

He’s clearly got potential but if he’s not going to fit the system going forward then getting what we can for him now is better than keeping him around as his value deteriorates.

Look at the names I mentioned before, there were points during their time with us where a majortiy of fans would have considered them unsellable (all but Lingard at least). In every single one of those cases though, in hindsight, we’d be laughing if we’d have got big money for them whilst their stick was at their peak.

Mainoo has done no wrong yet, and there’s nothing at this time (apart from his alleged contract demands) that tells us he’ll be an issue in the future. But there’s clearly been an issue festering in the club with bad characters, even in the academy ranks, and it needs to be rooted out.

Player power is clearly seen as one of the main issues at the club by Ineos and the management and you can tell by their statements and actions that they won’t accept it anymore.

Good I say.

 

[Posh Red]

I disagree with the assertion that he ‘doesn’t fit the system’. No one can know that at this stage of the project and at this stage in his development.

 

[Escobar]

Selling Mainoo for 70m does make some sense though if you take you emotions out of it.
Mainoo isn’t a key player for us, he’s a back-up for now and 70m for a squad player is a very good opportunity considering our financial situation.

He’s clearly got potential but if he’s not going to fit the system going forward then getting what we can for him now is better than keeping him around as his value deteriorates.

Look at the names I mentioned before, there were points during their time with us where a majortiy of fans would have considered them unsellable (all but Lingard at least). In every single one of those cases though, in hindsight, we’d be laughing if we’d have got big money for them whilst their stick was at their peak.

Mainoo has done no wrong yet, and there’s nothing at this time (apart from his alleged contract demands) that tells us he’ll be an issue in the future. But there’s clearly been an issue festering in the club with bad characters, even in the academy ranks, and it needs to be rooted out.

Player power is clearly seen as one of the main issues at the club by Ineos and the management and you can tell by their statements and actions that they won’t accept it anymore.

Good I say.

No one will pay us 70m for him. He would not move for more than 40-50m.