You've taken the bolded part out of context. I think most would agree that he looks better than a 17 year old Messi.
Lamine Yamal
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
Don't agree, teenagers were not exposed as much at this age in the past, especially at bigger clubs. I remember Ronaldinho, or maybe someone else, saying that Messi was one of the best players in training sessions at that age but he was being brought in slowly. Had Messi been given the same playing time as Lamal we might have been seeing the same impact.
Yamal has a pretty good supporting cast to be fair, but like Messi, he stands out as by far and away the most talented player.
One difference between the two is that outside of the boot pass Yamal uses, I don’t recall Messi ever doing it
When did this happen exactly - on a game of FIFA you played?
Messi turned 18 in June 2005 - he literally didn't even play against Real Madrid before that date.
Definitely looked like he was trying to shoot, the way he opened up his body to get the curl/bend on the shot...then it just looks like a mishit/scruff.
The goal though....pure filth.
Was a scuffed shot.
Messi played a 234 minutes over 9 games at age 17 not least because Barcelona did not need to play him regularly. Thing is, I watched Messi's games at age 18 when he was starting to become a regular AND he looks easily more talented than Yamal but also more raw therefore a higher ceiling.
I think he meant at age 18. The game in which Ronaldinho scored twice. Messi was the second best player on the pitch and truly did run rings around that Real Madrid side.
He wasn't. Messi is exactly 20 years older than Yamal, in 2004/2005 season he was still mainly playing for Barcelona B and got less than 10 games with the senior team that season, scoring one goal and 0 assists. Yamal in 2024/2025 is already a first-team player (and a star), on 12 goals and 17 assists so far and the season is far from finished.
Even 18 year old Messi, in 05/06 season, was not producing half as much as a year younger Yamal this year - 8 goals 5 assists in 25 matches, with much less minutes played than Lamine. His first truly great season was 06/07.
And that's just club football - the fact Yamal is a first-team player for Spain already and was one of their biggest stars in the Euros they won last year (before he even turned 17!) is incomparable to what Messi did with Argentina at his age.
Again, that obviously doesn't mean anyone in the right state of mind would claim Yamal is a bigger talent or will have a career comparable to Messi, but 17 yo Lamine is a much better player than 17 yo Messi, it's not even close.
Not only that, Yamal was 16 years old being one of Spain's top 3 players to win them the Euros. Downplaying the unprecedented stuff Yamal is doing at this age is pretty unfair.
How do you compare them when one hardly played at 17? At 17, Messi played only 234 minutes spread over 9 matches, at 18, Messi played 1416 minutes spread over 25 matches and he missed the 3 months of that season with injury. Comparesmd to this, Yamal is a veteran. But, having watched them both, i have no doubt that while Yamal is a true generational talent, Messi is still more talented but due to relative lack of experience much more raw. Even in his cameos at 17, he did produce some wonderful moments.
As far as I can see, the only 2 players better than Yamal at 17 - in terms of real world proof - were Pele and Maradona.
Taken in isolation with no extrapolation, that is Yamal’s company as of right now. It does not mean he will have exponential, equivocal growth to either, and as more of the greats enter the fray as uber performing teens, his competition will only get fiercer and more abundant. 18:18 compared to 19:19, for example, the likes of Ronaldo and Cruyff start to enter the fray and 20:20, Messi joins the party too.
All of the above is irrelevant in the here and now of 17:17; at this age, he is in one elite tier of two of the greatest players of all time and himself.
Taken in isolation with no extrapolation, that is Yamal’s company as of right now. It does not mean he will have exponential, equivocal growth to either, and as more of the greats enter the fray as uber performing teens, his competition will only get fiercer and more abundant. 18:18 compared to 19:19, for example, the likes of Ronaldo and Cruyff start to enter the fray and 20:20, Messi joins the party too.
All of the above is irrelevant in the here and now of 17:17; at this age, he is in one elite tier of two of the greatest players of all time and himself.
Dude, Yamal was one of the best players at the euros aged 16, and is Barcelona’s best player in a season where they are top of La liga (a position they gave up when he was injured) and cruising into the CL last 8. Who the bigger talent is at this stage of their careers isn’t a question at all, it’s clearly Yamal.
the question wasn't "who was more talented at 17", because for now we don't really know the ceiling of Yamal, so it's impossible to say who is more talented. I'm fine admitting Messi was the most talented ever, but that's only because he turned out to be a GOAT later on.
"who was a better player at 17" is another question and this one is pretty straightforward, Yamal is a more mature player, producing much more and being way more important for the club and national team than Messi at this age.
I'm not disputing that, Yamal has all the ingredients to be an all time great. But to say that he was more talented than Messi was at 17 is an insane claim. I could go with more productive, but that would discount Messi opposition's level as well as his own teams at the time.
It's not the only difference, Yamal is a natural wide forward. Messi was frustrated by the fact that he was kept on the right wing by Rijkaard. Then Guardiola recognized the damage Messi would cause if he played more centrally and the rest is history.
Yeah, I got that one wrong, he was 18 and not 17.
Did you see who was in the Barca A team in 2004-05 and wonder why he got so little game time? Also, Messi was injured for quite a long time during that season. A 17 years old Messi would walk into this current Barca team, that's not even debatable. The same goes for Argentina, just look at who he was competing with at the time.
I swear, you stats lovers do my head in. Zero context, only numbers.
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Mbappe was pretty good at 17 too.
Good, sure, but we’re looking at something absurd with Yamal. Might be the most talented player active.
Yamal is on track to beat the season Messi had in 06/07 (Messi’s third in the Barcelona first team which began when he was already 19)
It’s not an outrageous claim to say Yamal is doing better at 17 than Messi was at that age. In fact I’d say it’s hardly even controversial. Look at the numbers.
It’s not an outrageous claim to say Yamal is doing better at 17 than Messi was at that age. In fact I’d say it’s hardly even controversial. Look at the numbers.
I love Messi but that's pure revisionism. Argentina national team of 2004/2005, when Messi was 17/18, in competitive games fielded offensive players like Luciano Galletti, César Delgado, Andrés D'Alessandro, Luciano Figueroa - not necessarily world beaters. Messi didn't even make the bench then, his debut came in August 2005. Yamal at his age became a first-teamer in a much better national team (and that's not just my opinion, it's also proven by trophies) and benched better attackers than Messi in Argentina.
it's not about stats only, but I find it pretty absurd to downplay Yamal's exceptional maturity at such young age only because 'the eye test says 17 yo Messi was better' - very subjective and I disagree, and I disagree with a claim that he'd walk into this current Barça team at 17 yo. 04/05 Messi does not bench current Yamal, Lewandowski or Raphinia and for me it's not even debatable
Why do you keep making stuff up?
Pékerman was an absolute dunce of a national coach and he never gave Messi a real chance. A bit like Menotti with Maradona in 78, although he was a much better manager than Pékerman.
I'm not downplaying that, just contesting the fact that he is more talented than Messi was at the same age. Being more productive/mature at the same age is a fair debate.
Messi would absolutely walk into this Barca team either as a right winger, or more likely as a false nine or a ten, to get the best of both.
Just wondering how you can debate this when the numbers speak for themself?
Cool, good response.
Perhaps I'm just wondering why you're responding to people telling them their opinion is wrong, yet you can't even build a counter-argument without - on more than one occasion now - making something up that factually never happened?
I'm debating it because Messi didn't have the same amount of games at Yamal's age and people are spewing numbers without considering the club's situation at the time. I thought I made that clear, if not then that's on me.
In my opinion, Messi faced a much tougher level of competition at the time, especially at Barca, than Yamal ever did. That delayed his official entry into the fray.
The old adage if you’re good enough your old enough springs to mind. It’s a non argument, statistically and on the eye test, Yamal is better at 17 than Messi was, but I don’t think there’s even a remote possibility Yamal will be anywhere near what Messi was age 20.
I agree on the first statement about Pekerman, but disagree that the quality of that Argentine team was better than current Spain, for me no way.
And then, as I wrote above, it's quite impossible to talk 'who is more talented at the same age', is it the same as 'who shows more promise"? Such discussions are often marked with hindsight and revisionism so I don't think it's a fair debate, more of a decent topic for a chat over a pint or seven. Messi at 17 was a giant talent obviously, but it really wasn't so clear and certain he'd become a GOAT. It's not to downplay his talent - it was his exponential growth and consistency that made him the best, Yamal is yet to show that.
"who is more productive/mature/a better player at 17" is less subjective and for me there's no doubt 17 yo Yamal is streets ahead of 17 yo Messi. 17 yo Rooney was also a better player than 17 yo Messi - doesn't mean he was more talented though.
and the last statement is incorrect, 17 yo Messi is not benching Yamal on a right wing and he's not benching Lewandowski to take the false nine role, he had no fecking clue (nevermind the physical ability) about being a false nine role at 17.
Not when you have prime Ronaldinho as direct competitor.
Please don’t adopt this tone. It is uncalled for and will get you warned or threadbanned.
At age 16/17, Messi’s competition for the RW spot was quaresma and Luis Garcia. Barca signed raphinha to be their right winger and yamal has basically shunted him to the left.
Ronaldinho played on the left. Is there any article out there that says Messi wasn’t happy playing as a RW when he first broke through?
Sorry, I'll delete that post.
Despite how great Yamal has been this season Raphina has been slightly better, if they win the CL he will win the Balon d'Or.
You’d imagine one of — Harry Kane, Dembele, Raphinha, or Yamal.
Salah’s chances have probably been slashed following that crash and burn.
Yeah a lot is riding on the outcome of the CL in who gets it and there are quite a few candidates and possible winners. I don't think the CL has been this open in a while.
Right now it’s pretty close, will all depend on who is more decisive in the run in.
I agree he’s been marginally better but it’s a popularity contest after all, and Raphinia is criminally underrated.
I agree, don't know people get so wound up by that claim
It’s not just that; Yamal is a walking highlight reel in the way we identify true BPITW types to be. He’s more likely MotM as games get bigger and harder too.
I think I'd disagree with this to be honest even though Raphinha has been great, and I appreciate he has Yamal beat for G+A - but Yamal's overall level of play I think has been higher. He has Raphinha beat for pretty much every other metric otherwise (i.e. GCA / SCA, progressive passes + carries, successful take-ons etc).
But yeah Raphinha might be the one to win the Balon d'or if they do the double given G+A will be key to voting - especially given he's on 11 CL goals right now and potentially could match or break the season record if they do win the comp.
I don't see it. It's the same pass he's made a hundred times before. They're not even similar techniques.
If Barça win the league + potentially the CL, it would likely be to one of those 2 that would be worthy, but the voting might be split, and they would be mutually siphoning each other's votes (+ potentially some for Lewa as an end of career hommage, especially if he has a few big performances in the run in). Which would leave things finely poised for the real GOAT to win it...
Utterly brilliant. Delighted we already might have a future greatest of all time contender.