RedRocket9908
Full Member
A tactic that leaves your midfield wide open and allows the opposition 20-30 shots at goal per game is a crazy tacticHardly crazy tactics... looks shit when players don't follow instructions though granted
A tactic that leaves your midfield wide open and allows the opposition 20-30 shots at goal per game is a crazy tacticHardly crazy tactics... looks shit when players don't follow instructions though granted
It is perfectly normal for any organisation that invests £1.3 billion into a business to review all existing management positions with an open mind and without bias and so it is no surprise that they have looked at various options in fact it is re-assuring. This does not mean they necessarily doubted ETH, it is just what you do when you invest huge sums of money into a business unless you are an idiot.I've happy to give INEOS plenty of rope and plenty of time, but there are a lot of moving parts as we build this new structure so it's a little early to declare that they know so much of the situation when they've barely got their own people in to overlook things. They also had enough doubts over ETH to talk to other managers, even if they (logically) decided none of them offered enough for us to make a change.
I do expect us to do better next season, maybe much better. Because it'll be harder to repeat this season, because it will help if we suffer less injuries and because hopefully we'll now be able to make better signings and that ETH will be able to focus more on the coaching. However, that's kind of the big issue. His coaching has not been very impressive for a while now.
But its not the tactic as the piece sets out, the players not following the instructions causes the gapA tactic that leaves your midfield wide open and allows the opposition 20-30 shots at goal per game is a crazy tactic
He couldn't tell them to push up?But its not the tactic as the piece sets out, the players not following the instructions causes the gap
Could be because they see progress behind the scenes that is not yet apparent on the pitch. SAF came 12th and 13th but there was enough progress (that was not apparent to the "Fergie Out' brigade), to convince the board that he was the best person to take the club forward.My only question is why other managers at United weren’t given the time ETH was granted? What did ETH do that warranted more patience?
Some things could change: tactics aren’t set in stone. We will probably stick to the overall strategy though.Any chance ETH changes tactics a little bit next season? Let say we sign Branthwaite, could he then use Martinez as an inverted LB similar to Ake at city and then play Branthwaite LCB. We’d still probably need a RCB aswell though.
You obviously did not read the articleHe couldn't tell them to push up?
Instead of standing there in silence, shaking his head and grinding his teeth.
Compare that with how Pep/Klopp etc are on the touchline - constant instruction, especially when the tactics aren't being followed.
Nah I just want us to act like the big club that we are and be ruthless. Madrid and the other giants don't put up with mediocrity. We do the opposite and we reward it.I'm not. I'm just saying people like you want to be right, so if he starts to do good you will never admit Ineos were right to keep him.
Tbh I blame Ten Hag too, why didn't he go onto the pitch and drag the players into the position he wanted..You obviously did not read the article
He is giving a lot of instruction on the touch line, the media does not show it. During games at least one half you can see the managers in the background.He couldn't tell them to push up?
Instead of standing there in silence, shaking his head and grinding his teeth.
Compare that with how Pep/Klopp etc are on the touchline - constant instruction, especially when the tactics aren't being followed.
It is clear you dont understand the context of those big clubs right?Nah I just want us to act like the big club that we are and be ruthless. Madrid and the other giants don't put up with mediocrity. We do the opposite and we reward it.
You're taking 1 article in the Athletic as more reliable than what we watched for the whole season. If it was literally the case of players ignoring instructions then what were they doing in training all week? Monday to Friday they were doing exactly what Ten Hag, pushing up high and being compact as a team, and then on Saturday the defenders decided to feck it off and drop back 20 yards? If that's really the case then it's amazing how it wasn't drilled into them for a whole season.But its not the tactic as the piece sets out, the players not following the instructions causes the gap
The question for me is moreso , what progress would be acceptable this season had he gone all pragmatic and we did better consistently in the league but maybe still just about squeezed 4th or just missed out? I really don’t think we miss out financially an awful lot on CL when player wage drop is factored in along with that we don’t regularly get much further then QFs at a push.What about the way we won FA Cup signals progress though? Genuine quesition. I don’t think our Liverpool and City wins were that different to how we’ve beaten big sides numerous times in the past.
Argurably the best coach in the world at the moment adopts a very regimented way of playing.The obvious flaw when you fill your team with successful proven players. Tends to be the reason why these Dutch managers regimented football only works in the Eredivisie with junior players where they dominate the league with young[er] players who are at the highest level of their career presently.
I'm not buying that. Had they joined a year earlier, I don't think they would have gone and talked to other managers at the end of 2022/23.It is perfectly normal for any organisation that invests £1.3 billion into a business to review all existing management positions with an open mind and without bias and so it is no surprise that they have looked at various options in fact it is re-assuring. This does not mean they necessarily doubted ETH, it is just what you do when you invest huge sums of money into a business unless you are an idiot.
AgreedI'm guessing
No because the manager has repeatedly said itYou're taking 1 article in the Athletic as more reliable than what we watched for the whole season. If it was literally the case of players ignoring instructions then what were they doing in training all week? Monday to Friday they were doing exactly what Ten Hag, pushing up high and being compact as a team, and then on Saturday the defenders decided to feck it off and drop back 20 yards? If that's really the case then it's amazing how it wasn't drilled into them for a whole season.
I could believe more that Ten Hag just decided that he'd rather half the team do what we wants for the better in the long run and just accepted the defenders were incapable, it made for a lot of dreadful performances but there may be benefits in the long run, rather than him actively instructing them to do one thing every week and them going out and not doing it with the same then repeated the week after.
Mata was signed because he could be signed, was a high profile name and would look good for Woodward after the Fellaini debacle, not for any other reason. Woodward was in charge for a decade. A decade of squad mismanagement that all our manager had to endure and publicly defend because you can’t go around saying your employers are muppets and it won’t exactly help you get another job at another club.The one irrefutable conclusion out of that article is that the old regime didn’t know what the feck they were doing, but we all knew that.
Reading about how they bought Mount because he is ‘versatile’ is just comical, it’s Mourinho and Fred all over again. Even the fanbase (well, at least half of it) knew that it didn’t address any of our issue and none of us make a living out of football.
I'd be way more concerned at the idea of players dictating what tactics they want to play.Reading that some senior players were unhappy with Erik's playing style but were basically told to shut up when they spoke up about it is quite concerning, its no wonder there was dissent in the dressing room if this was happening.
I honestly haven't heard him repeatedly say it, you might be right, but I just don't believe that if he's telling them to do it every week and they're working on it in training that the defenders are actively doing the opposite in games with no consequences and nothing changing.No because the manager has repeatedly said it
None of that applies to Ten Hag though because he had a veto on all transfers. We signed the players he wanted.Mata was signed because he could be signed, was a high profile name and would look good for Woodward after the Fellaini debacle, not for any other reason. Woodward was in charge for a decade. A decade of squad mismanagement that all our manager had to endure and publicly defend because you can’t go around saying your employers are muppets and it won’t exactly help you get another job at another club.
Just annoys me when people presume signings are simply “manager wants Anthony , he gets Anthony”. There’s so much more to a signing , how you get there, how/why they are identified, why you overpay and how it didn’t work out then simply “manager”. With United the manager position has effectively been a human shield for glazers/woodward and general club dysfunction.
Pep? Absolutely. But even he has seasoned players who question the absolutism of his football. Tends to end up with them out on by their ears too.Argurably the best coach in the world at the moment adopts a very regimented way of playing.
If the players were failing to follow his instructions why didnt he take any action to resolve that instead of continuing with the same thing every game up until Wilcox ordered him to change to the 4-2-2-2?But its not the tactic as the piece sets out, the players not following the instructions causes the gap
Daley Blind, Tadic, Schöne were hardly young players. It was a mix of experience and youth, a club tactical identity and good coaching on top.The obvious flaw when you fill your team with successful proven players. Tends to be the reason why these Dutch managers regimented football only works in the Eredivisie with junior players where they dominate the league with young[er] players who are at the highest level of their career presently.
Hard to have consequences when you don't have many defenders to pick from, and he has said it repeatedly after games that players did not follow instructionsI honestly haven't heard him repeatedly say it, you might be right, but I just don't believe that if he's telling them to do it every week and they're working on it in training that the defenders are actively doing the opposite in games with no consequences and nothing changing.
Although ETH is not blameless. The people using that article to bash him don’t get the point. Most managers would fail under those circumstances.That article reflects badly on the players and the people above ETH. Have sympathy for him.
Blind was born and bled in Ajax football. Schone grew up and played his entire career in Dutch football too. Tadic is fair, but again — all three of those players* — Ajax was the highest level they’d played at their careers at that point. That manager was the most proven manager they’d played under.Daley Blind, Tadic, Schöne were hardly young players. It was a mix of experience and youth, a club tactical identity and good coaching on top.
Technical directors don’t dictate tactics or line-ups. Wilcox is working on a playing strategy that will be the blueprint for the whole academy + first team. It sure as hell isn’t Ten Hag’s false nine narrow low block system.If the players were failing to follow his instructions why didnt he take any action to resolve that instead of continuing with the same thing every game up until Wilcox ordered him to change to the 4-2-2-2?
Why were the senior players not listened too when they spoke up about being unhappy with the playing style?
The fact we continued to play a tactic and style that the players were unhappy with and couldnt play fo so long is 100% on the manager.
OK, I do think that we have toBlind was born and bled in Ajax football. Schone grew up and played his entire career in Dutch football too. Tadic is fair, but again — all three of those players* — Ajax was the highest level they’d played at their careers at that point. That manager was the most proven manager they’d played under.
I also didn’t say this was an absolute rule. Just that it tends to go that way. It’s a lot easier to be so specific on details and have such a heavy focus on tactical instructions when players are younger, impressionable, and haven’t had experiences of real success elsewhere. I don’t think that’s a controversial comment.
Is it possible to be such a way elsewhere and succeed? Well, yeah, it’s just harder and you will find yourself coming into situations (at times) like the ones ten Hag found himself with the likes of Varane and Casemiro.
* Blind aside as he’d played for us, but again see caveat that he played at Ajax since he could kick a ball.
Agreed, but the players we sign must fit that system. No more hodgepodge of players who don’t really fit the way he wants to play being signed in the same window.OK, I do think that we have to
continue to go in that direction. And we are.
‘We can’t do it here’ is bollocks. We will do it.
Sir Alex himself said we need to give managers time. Since then we have had Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick and now Ten Hag. That is 6 managers in 11 years.Nah I just want us to act like the big club that we are and be ruthless. Madrid and the other giants don't put up with mediocrity. We do the opposite and we reward it.
Well it's even worse if it's coming from Ten Hag, wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.Agreed
Arguably Dalot. That's it. Every other player in the squad had their job made significantly harder because of the tactics.How many people in the first 11 did his tactics actually suit last season, I can't think of many