Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Berbaclass]

There's only really about half a dozen people who still back him or at least want him to prove everyone wrong.

But you're right. Radio silence for a day or two... and then they dust themselves down and go again.

This is a forum, where people are entitled to their opinions.

Why would anyone not want him to prove everyone wrong by the way? Surely that means we would be a successful team, which is what we all want.

 

[pocco]

I agree if there are no viable alternatives to hang fire for now yes.

The tweet doesn't say that, just that we basically can't afford to sack him. Which is becoming a common theme with us also not being able to pay too much to get Ashworth in for this summer.

 

[pocco]

This is a forum, where people are entitled to their opinions.

Why would anyone not want him to prove everyone wrong by the way? Surely that means we would be a successful team, which is what we all want.

Because that's just a fantasy?

 

[pocco]

Let's just say that this is the truth of the matter - we can't afford to sack him and hire somebody else, and we think it's just the structure that has let him down. In that case, next season is a write off too, as the structure isn't going to be in place.

So when do they give him a new deal? Because by this logic, he will need another 2 years before we can start to judge.

And how about really putting their money where their mouth is and briefing the press with something positive about him, like they think he's a world class manager and the man to lead us to success?

I think I know why they aren't doing this (because it's bollocks, basically. They are trying to keep the peace until summer in my opinion). But to those that do believe in all of this, don't you think they should actually be putting their full weight behind him if they genuinely believe he's the man to take us forward? I'm telling you now, going into next season with Ten Hag, in his last year, has 'circus' written all over it yet again.

 

[Berbaclass]

The tweet doesn't say that, just that we basically can't afford to sack him. Which is becoming a common theme with us also not being able to pay too much to get Ashworth in for this summer.

No, it mentions multiple factors including money, lack of available options and INEOS sympathising with the lack of a proper executive structure.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Because that's just a fantasy?

And you being wrong about him is impossible ?

 

[Berbaclass]

Because that's just a fantasy?

It's not though is it? It's a possibility. I didn't comment on the likelihood of it occurring.

 

[pocco]

No, it mentions multiple factors including money, lack of available options and INEOS sympathising with the lack of a proper executive structure.

Is there an article to go with that tweet from the aggregator? The 'lack of available options' is clearly wrong, you don't need to be in football to recognise that.

 

[pocco]

And you being wrong about him is impossible ?

It's a fantasy because he's never done it before. Turning us around would have us challenging for titles, but what evidence do we have that he can do this? Hope, that is all.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

This is a forum, where people are entitled to their opinions.

Why would anyone not want him to prove everyone wrong by the way? Surely that means we would be a successful team, which is what we all want.

Yeah, but he didn't prove anyone wrong. These people invested a lot of time and effort into defending him. It's become personal. They don't want to look foolish.

I don't like seeing mediocrity rewarded, which is why I'm done with ten Hag. You can't reward this season.

I had serious doubts after the Sevilla games last season. It's only gotten worse since then.

I've actually never been proven wrong by a manager once I'm done with them. I was done with Mourinho around the time of his Sevilla rant. I was done with Ole after the Demba Ba goal in Istanbul. Ole managed to survive just over a year. ten Hag has also survived just over a year since I wrote him off.

Hopefully INEOS bin him and start a new era. We'll see.

 

[Berbaclass]

Is there an article to go with that tweet from the aggregator? The 'lack of available options' is clearly wrong, you don't need to be in football to recognise that.

Of course there is yes. He's quoting Craftons piece in the Athletic mate.

That's a matter of opinion though right? Of course, there are managers available. Ones that fit what we want to do? Maybe not.

 

[hobbers]

We could have beaten City in last years final if not for a few errors. Also he got the team to the final

He also got the team to concede 16 goals vs City in 5 games and win 1 in the last 7 games in all comps. Against Sheffield.

 

[Shinjch]

Yeah, but he didn't prove anyone wrong. These people invested a lot of time and effort into defending him. It's become personal. They don't want to look foolish.

I don't like seeing mediocrity rewarded, which is why I'm done with ten Hag. You can't reward this season.

I had serious doubts after the Sevilla games last season. It's only gotten worse since then.

I've actually never been proven wrong by a manager once I'm done with them. I was done with Mourinho around the time of his Sevilla rant. I was done with Ole after the Demba Ba goal in Istanbul. Ole managed to survive just over a year. ten Hag has also survived just over a year since I wrote him off.

Hopefully INEOS bin him and start a new era. We'll see.

This is big, get a letter sent to Sir Jim and I'm sure he will do the right thing now.

 

[stevoc]

I mean they're not. They even caveat it's the play "for now". There was nothing clickbait about it.

Apart from the click baity Tweet.

We've done this before? Are you referring to the time I suggested you research about the veto system and you didn't bother doing so?

Ten Hag has a veto. DoF had a veto. Ten hag wanted a say in strategy. If you agree with this much (you should given its very widely reported), then you should be able to understand how Ten hag did not have sole control, and he never said that it was only him controlling it.

He had an element of control with that system, yes. I think where you've fallen over is insinuating an element of control equals complete and unanimous control.

No, must have been someone else. I'm referring to the time we had this conversation almost verbatim and I asked you to provide links or quotes that confirm your interpretation and you never replied. Are there any?

And you should be able to understand if you read my posts that at no point have I claimed Ten Hag has sole or unanimous control. So I've no idea why you are trying to put words in my mouth and then arguing against an opinion that doesn't exist.

But given his quotes on the matter and the players we've signed. He obviously asked for and was given control in identifying targets.

Us landing on players who were affiliated with him points to the structural failing (non existent DoF and scouting pedigree being communicated on the shortlist).

Oh we just happened to land on a load of Dutch, ex Ajax and ex Ten Hag players.

What are the chances eh...

 

[Berbaclass]

Yeah, but he didn't prove anyone wrong. These people invested a lot of time and effort into defending him. It's become personal. They don't want to look foolish.

I don't like seeing mediocrity rewarded, which is why I'm done with ten Hag. You can't reward this season.

I had serious doubts after the Sevilla games last season. It's only gotten worse since then.

I've actually never been proven wrong by a manager once I'm done with them. I was done with Mourinho around the time of his Sevilla rant. I was done with Ole after the Demba Ba goal in Istanbul. Ole managed to survive just over a year. ten Hag has also survived just over a year since I wrote him off.

Hopefully INEOS bin him and start a new era. We'll see.

We're talking future tense not past tense.

He still has the opportunity to turn things around and make us successful. You can disagree on the likelihood of that happening, sure, but that is a fact at present.

 

[Born2Lose]

Sometimes I wonder how some fans fail to see through the obvious ineptitude of ten Hag. He might have been successful at Ajax, but the Eredivisie is nowhere near EPL standards. Remember Spurs who beat Ajax in the UCL semifinal was practically brushed aside by Liverpool in a one-sided final.
Giving ten Hag another season is akin to wasting another year, we need to get rid now. Infact I support an interim coach facing Guardiola in the FA cup final (to give us a winning chance.) Ten Hag has gotten everything wrong at Manchester United, everything. From tactics to game management, from Ronaldo to Garnacho.
Ten Hag lacks good tactical nous, and this is only eclipsed by his unbelievably poor man management skills. It's time to let go, anybody would do at this moment. I suggest Carrick comes in on the interim, he wouldn't do a worse job than ten Hag.

He was the majority of internet fans choice, he was going to show Ole up as a "caretaker" and now he's showing he's just as lost and naive.

I cannot fathom how anyone can see a future with him between the favouritism of players, his petty interactions with the press, the goal difference and excuses about injuries when he's responsible for most of them.

 

[stevoc]

Bienvenue à Nice.

Maybe. Again we’ll see.

I just think you’re deluded in your expectations this early on into a rebuild. I’m not saying long term that should be our aspiration but even the next 2 years back to back CL qualification would be great progress.

Well to be fair we're 2 years into this current rebuild. With a 60% squad turnover and the best part of £450m spent I don't think top 4 is that big an ask, so no I don't think I'm being deluded.

Especially as Ten Hag wasn't hired to make us a top 4 side. We already were and probably could have kept treading the waters of CL qualification under Ole if he hadn't tried to push us to the next level which was beyond him. Erik was hired to have us challenging for the title by year 3 or 4.

Do you see that happening?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

We're talking future tense not past tense.

He still has the opportunity to turn things around and make us successful. You can disagree on the likelihood of that happening, sure but that is a fact at present.

What is success to you?

ten Hag absolutely could improve next season. It would be pretty much impossible not to.

I don't ever see him winning The PL or CL though. For those reasons, it's best to move on. It would be one thing to be miles off either while generally playing well, but we are awful at least 75% of the time.

 

[stevoc]

Jesus

The fecking Athletic are clickbait now?

You guys are really trying to bend the narrative now.

The Tweet wasn't an Athletic article though.

 

[Berbaclass]

Well to be fair we're 2 years into this current rebuild. With a 60% squad turnover and the best part of £450m spent I don't think top 4 is that big an ask, so no I don't think I'm being deluded.

Especially as Ten Hag wasn't hired to make us a top 4 side. We already were and probably could have kept treading the waters of CL qualification under Ole if he hadn't tried to push us to the next level which was beyond him. Erik was hired to have us challenging for the title by year 3 or 4.

Do you see that happening?

We were it's about to be scrapped.

 

[Berbaclass]

The Tweet wasn't an Athletic article though.

Which is the tweet you are referring to?

 

[Berbaclass]

What is success to you?

ten Hag absolutely could improve next season. It would be pretty much impossible not to.

I don't ever see him winning The PL or CL though. For those reasons, it's best to move on. It would be one thing to be miles off either while generally playing well, but we are awful at least 75% of the time.

Being a consistent challenger for titles. Winning some now and then also.

 

[hobbers]

He still has the opportunity to turn things around and make us successful.

And objectively what do you think the chances of him doing that are, if he is allowed to carry on?

What are the chances he arrests the collapse and we become a potential CL side again? [5%]

And what are the chances he turns us into a team that can compete for titles? [0.0001%]

 

[Sarni]

We could have beaten City in last years final if not for a few errors. Also he got the team to the final

We also beat them in the league last year. We are nothing like the team we were last year now though, we've played them twice this season and were probably their easiest fixture of season in both games.

 

[stevoc]

We were it's about to be scrapped.

I'm all for that actually as it's been an unmitigated disaster. Everyone in influential positions overseeing it should be scrapped too. Arnold and Murtagh are already gone.

 

[Berbaclass]

And objectively what do you think the chances of him doing that are, if he is allowed to carry on?

What are the chances he arrests the collapse and we become a potential CL side again? [5%]

And what are the chances he turns us into a team that can compete for titles? [0.0001%]

Genuinely don't know to be honest. 20-25% maybe but that's a pretty arbitrary guess.

I think he can do good things with the right squad.

 

[Berbaclass]

I'm all for that actually as it's been an unmitigated disaster. Everyone in influential positions overseeing it should be scrapped too. Arnold and Murtagh are already gone.

Not against that yeah.

 

[hobbers]

I think he can do good things with the right squad.

Why

 

[Berbaclass]

Why

Ajax and parts of last season when we had out key players in place.

 

[VP89]

Apart from the click baity Tweet.



No, must have been someone else. I'm referring to the time we had this conversation almost verbatim and I asked you to provide links or quotes that confirm your interpretation and you never replied. Are there any?

And you should be able to understand if you read my posts that at no point have I claimed Ten Hag has sole or unanimous control. So I've no idea why you are trying to put words in my mouth and then arguing against an opinion that doesn't exist.

But given his quotes on the matter and the players we've signed. He obviously asked for and was given control in identifying targets.



Oh we just happened to land on a load of Dutch, ex Ajax and ex Ten Hag players.

What are the chances eh...

It sound like it is you, let's start by first answering the question from my previous post.

Do you agree that the system was Ten Hag had a veto, joint with the DoF and had an element of control, not sole control? Let's start there.

 

[hobbers]

Ajax and parts of last season when we had out key players in place.

We lost 7-0 with all the key players in place.

And yeah he looked better at Ajax with the right squad in place. Just like De Boer did. Or Gerrard at Rangers and Bodgers at Celtic.

 

[NLunited]

So why did he bring in Martinez who is small and not pacey?

He is aggressive and amazing on the ball.

 

[Berbaclass]

We lost 7-0 with all the key players in place.

And yeah he looked better at Ajax with the right squad in place. Just like De Boer did. Or Gerrard at Rangers and Bodgers at Celtic.

Yes, there is no denying that the Liverpool game was awful which is why I said parts of last season. We lack the athleticism to really go toe to toe with the big sides like City/Liverpool and even Arsenal now.

 

[NLunited]

In retrospect, it seems to me that Ten Hag was at fault in each and every fight he had with players! He is stubborn, he has some ideas but he cannot adapt them to the actual players he has available, he cannot really understand who has what talent, and he has favorites. All these are serious deficiencies, especially for a top manager. As a top manager, you have to understand what each one of your players can do and cannot do, and somehow find a way to inspire them to perform at 100%.

For example, we don't really know what exactly happened between Sancho and ETH. But we know that last year ETH was constantly using his boy Antony on the right, despite the fact that he was not performing. And then in the summer, he tried Sancho as a striker. Perhaps Sancho told him "Mister, I am not a striker". Why ETH did not try Antony as a striker? Antony has been useless on the right. But of course for ETH "Antony is unstoppable", so he has to play in his favorite position. Naturally, Sancho was upset that ETH so blatantly prefered to play an inferior player. This does not mean that Sancho does not have deficiencies. But it certainly means that ETH is not good at managing.

We know exactly what went wrong with Sancho. He has himself to blame.

BTW he was tried as a false nine because we had no striker.

 

[2mufc0]

Out the door the day after the final please.

 

[Lay]

Out the door the day after the final please.

I hope so. Win or not, he ain't it.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

It's a fantasy because he's never done it before. Turning us around would have us challenging for titles, but what evidence do we have that he can do this? Hope, that is all.

To me , the next 2-3 seasons are not about challanging for title’s, it’s about manoeuvring the club in the longer term to be able to challange. Sounds like there could be a serious gutting of the squad and in how the club is gonna be doing things.

So whatever manager we have, it’s gonna be about working with the new structure. Not just that, they ain’t gonna be getting the kind of players needed next season to be pushing for top honors. I’m not saying we can’t win cups but I don’t see us being serious challengers for the two major trophies for awhile.

If ETH was kept on, in my view , however good or bad he does (short of getting relegated), shouldn’t have a major impact on the clubs longer term plans.

With regards to whether he “can recover” from this season, well I don’t see why not. He showed in season 1 that he can do well for months at least. He also showed he can recover from issues with players as Ronaldo made the first half of his first season very difficult.

All this said, I am trusting that he’s not just kept simply because it suits INEOs. That while this season hasn’t been good enough , that they factored in all other stuff and felt he’s a decent manager to have right now for where we are in their process.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Ajax and parts of last season when we had out key players in place.

It's been pointed out that there were many terrible performance and/or results from January onwards last season. The team has been out form twice as long as it was in form under him. The team is getting worse the longer it spend time with him. We've had very few midweek commitments since December, yet somehow got worse after more time on the training ground and bigger gaps between games. We started to concede even more shots on our goal too. It's actually crazy how bad things have gotten.

Our away record vs the top 10 was awful last season. It's only gotten marginally better this season.

ten Hag's h2h record vs the best coaches in the league is poor. It's one of the biggest reasons why we should bin him. Coaches with inferior squads and less resources get the better of him regularly.

PL head to head record

Pep:
4 games
1 win
3 losses
-7 GD

Klopp:
4 games
1 win
2 draws
1 loss
-6 GD

Arteta:
3 games
1 win
2 losses
-1 GD

Emery:
4 games
3 wins
1 loss
+2 GD

Ange:
2 games
1 draw
1 loss
-2 GD

Howe:
3 games
1 draw
2 losses
-3 GD

Moyes:
4 games
2 wins
2 losses
+1 GD

Poch:
2 games
1 win
1 loss
0 GD

Iraola
2 games
1 draw
1 loss
-3 GD

De Zerbri:
2 games
2 losses
-3 GD

Frank:
4 games
2 wins
1 draw
1 loss
-2 GD

Conte:
1 game
1 win
+2 GD

Potter:
2 games
1 draw
1 loss
-1 GD

He only has a good record against Emery and Conte who is long gone.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

He only has a good record against Emery and Conte who is long gone.

Ten Hag hates men with hair transplants

 

[sdb4884]

If he gets to stay on it's a massive setback given all the positive vibes off the field we've been receiving.