What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

golden_blunder said:
No way are we gonna sell or release that number of players, not in a million years.
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Not in abot 13years more like.....which along with our poor recruitment actually expandig the problem is why we are in the position we have been
 
jesperjaap said:
Not in abot 13years more like.....which along with our poor recruitment actually expandig the problem is why we are in the position we have been
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Don’t get me wrong I don’t disagree with the players as such but it’s unrealistic for any team, never mind United, to dump so many players in one go
 
The Villa-City match shows just how important a Rodri/Luiz is to a team. City looked like a midtable team without him and that's even with the robot up front. Our central midfielder is the most important position we need to nail down.
 
PoTMS said:
The Villa-City match shows just how important a Rodri/Luiz is to a team. City looked like a midtable team without him and that's even with the robot up front. Our central midfielder is the most important position we need to nail down.
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Villa also showing it's not as difficult as we make it look to recruit a midfield. Tielemans and Kamara were free easy transfers to make.
 
Martín Zubimendi and Todibo in Jan would be dream scenario with Casimero and Varane , going to Saudi for a decent fee. Potentially Sancho out would free up some fund but most likely a loan is what will happen. In the Summer new right back, left sided centre back, striker and box to box midfielder. Depending on Onnana form a new GK. potentially a new right winger the never ending problem position for this club.
 
Leftback99 said:
Villa also showing it's not as difficult as we make it look to recruit a midfield. Tielemans and Kamara were free easy transfers to make.
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Oh but it is in the system we play. They need to hold the midfield by themselves, be able to take off the CB's and progress the ball, drop in and become a second/third CB when needed, be able to play with back to defender, be able to break the press, be able to pass and keep possession, be able to recover quickly with pace when our press is broken. We should have got Rice. Not sure who fits that now and I mean really top class players. I'd go for Zubimendi but he's a risk and probably end up at Barca
 
UpWithRivers said:
Oh but it is in the system we play. They need to hold the midfield by themselves, be able to take off the CB's and progress the ball, drop in and become a second/third CB when needed, be able to play with back to defender, be able to break the press, be able to pass and keep possession, be able to recover quickly with pace when our press is broken. We should have got Rice. Not sure who fits that now and I mean really top class players. I'd go for Zubimendi but he's a risk and probably end up at Barca
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Then it's a daft system if the player to fit it is so rare. I was saying get Rice for years. I quite like Onana at Everton from the little I've seen but he'd be expensive now.
 
Yes but loo
golden_blunder said:
Don’t get me wrong I don’t disagree with the players as such but it’s unrealistic for any team, never mind United, to dump so many players in one go
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Well it is what we need, not what we will do as the thread title.

No I dont expect all opf them to go. However look at the transfer dealings of Mourinho and Guardiola in there early days at CIty and CHelsea, loads of players were off loaded.

I am not a fan of Guardiolas personally, not jsut because of CIty. One of the things I do really like about him though is his ruthlessness in the transfer market regarding offloading players, if they dotn fit what he wants, he has no problem axing them Ronaldhino, Hart....doesnt matter if big names or even star players. That is something we need here for sure in the transfer market and we really should be looking to move on a significant number of the players I mentioned...especially a lot of the big names on high salaries I feel
 
there's no question or doubt that if you don't have at least ONE guy in the CM that's willing to get stuck in and do the donkey work....you can not win in the premier league

Casemiro was like the first part of his time here last season....we need Amrabat to step up now that he's had time to adjust to the league PLUS get healthy to bring that physical presence to the midfield alongside Scott or Mainoo
 
We need a 2 CM’s, a RW, a RB and a CB, as well as a Striker to help Hoijlund.
 
We need a goalkeeper that can keep the goal, and a CDM with engine and grit. That would go a long way, ideally a striker and a classy RW also.
 
Leftback99 said:
Then it's a daft system if the player to fit it is so rare. I was saying get Rice for years. I quite like Onana at Everton from the little I've seen but he'd be expensive now.
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Yeah definitely should have got Rice,trouble was Erik couldn't see past signing Onana and Mount. He also probably didn't expect Casemiro to fall off
 
GK: Onana (Last Chance)
RB: Pedro Porro / RB
LB: Shaw / Malacia
RCB: Todibo / Maguire
LCB: Martinez / LCB
DM: Mainoo / Casemiro
CM: Mount / Eriksen
CM: Bruno / Hannibal
RW: Amad / RW
LW: Mitoma / Garnacho
ST: Toney / Hojlund
 
Get tobido

then give palace and Brighton money take Anderson olise eze, mitoma and Ferguson

also I think chiesa be a good shout but why would he come here atm
 
If we're signing Dutch players, we should at least try to go all out to sign the good ones:

RB: Frimpong/Mazraoui
DM: Weiffer
RW: Xavi Simons

Hopefully let go of Dalot, Amrabat, Van de Beek and Sancho.
​
 
Start with rebuilding the midfield, it's an embarrassing collection of misfits.

I still think the midfield 3 of Matic, Herrera and Pogba has been the best combination of technical ability, intelligence and work ethic (I do use that term loosely with Pogba in the same sentence) we've had in midfield since Fergie retired.
 
Ten hag mistake was not deciding to build from the back from the get go, all the money wasted on mount, Antony and hojlund would have served better building the best back line possible and obviously not signing a hapless keeper like onana, then we should have focused on midfield, then attack, there is no point signing a shiny new striker if he starved of supply because the fullbacks/midfield are low quality
 
RedUnited86 said:
Start with rebuilding the midfield, it's an embarrassing collection of misfits.

I still think the midfield 3 of Matic, Herrera and Pogba has been the best combination of technical ability, intelligence and work ethic (I do use that term loosely with Pogba in the same sentence) we've had in midfield since Fergie retired.
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Rebuild? The concept of a midfield is alien to the people at Carrington. We should start with teaching them what a midfield is first.
 
Garnacho Hojland
Bruno

Mjebri maino
Amrabat​

more balance in midfield and our wingers don’t do crap besides rashford, so let’s play narrow up front with garnacho making the width on the left, Shaw inverting in and Dalot putting in those crosses from the right (he’s been the most competent).

just saw a random video of Take Kubo, he’s scoring goals on the right (5) but only one assist, only 22 but i imagine he’ll cost us a fortune.

Play compact and quick on the break with Fernandes feeding those two and enough legs in the midfield with those 3,

If we play this version of 4-3-3 we are better off. We should sign another young promising striker, hope to god Mount can actually cover for Bruno and sign another imposing creative CM.

wish we signed trippier when it was linked, but a RB with that creativity and a starting CB.

i would prioritize there
 
First we need a competent keeper as Onana is a disaster and lacks basic gk skills. Then we need a starting RB and a backup RB, a RCH and LCH. The LCB can be a young prospect where's the RCB should be a starter. We need a LB to cover for Shaw, this is the least of the requirements as we gave Malacia.
I'd keep Casamiro as he's vital to act as a mentor to Mainoo, they would be amazing together. I believe we should be integrating in Gore and buying another midfielder to play the 6/8 position. We need to buy Evan Ferguson to complement Hojlund and act as an alternative option. We need to buy a RW with a Right foot who can go down the line, not an inverted winger, give Amad a chance.


Squad replacements over the next few transfer windows.

New starting Gk
LCH & RCH - (possibly 2 RCB, depending on sales).
2 RB.
LB, not urgent.
2 Midfielders if Gore is given his chance we only 1 midfielder, if not we need 2.
1 CF - Ferguson
1 RW.

Get rid.
Onana
Dalot and wan Bissaka
Lindelof
Varane
Van de Beek
Evans - join as a coach
send back Regullion, Ambarat
Eriksen
Pellistri
Hannibal
Antony
Martial
Rashford
Sancho
 
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We need an elite manager. It doesn't matter what players you buy if the manager isn't up to it.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Doesn’t matter what manager you bring in if the players aren’t up to it.
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Brighton, Villa and Newcastle had objectively worse players than us and their managers have turned them into dominant teams. Everton have pretty much the same team as they had under Lampard and they're miles better under Dyche.
 
What we "need" right now 20 December 2023 -- are the following:
  • Injured players to return to full fitness ASAP
  • Players who are deemed physically fit but are suffering from a psychological malady, such as Rashford, to deal with their shit and return to duty like men ASAP
  • Our keeper to get over it and start playing like a seasoned professional and not a pale shadow of a 19 year David De Gea
  • And our manager to be tactically more astute against every upcoming opponent
Yes of course we need to bring in a striker and all that, but realistically we're not bringing in a truckload of new players until the summer, and even then we're probably looking at only 2-3 new players tops.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Brighton, Villa and Newcastle had objectively worse players than us and their managers have turned them into dominant teams. Everton have pretty much the same team as they had under Lampard and they're miles better under Dyche.
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Yeah but even for their previous coach they did the basic of actually running about and dropping in to offer passing options. Something our players just don’t do because they are lazy and think they are better than they actually are. You might fix that with a new coach for a while but we keep seeing the same old pattern time and time again and that isn’t down to coaching choices.

Rather bin half the squad or more before we bring in a new manager. But if we have to bin the manager could we do it at the same time as binning at least 75% of the squad.
 
Gk, creative central midfielder, right winger, striker.
Basically same shit which we needed before we spent 400 mil under ETH.
 
Think it's obvious that EtH is a lame duck until new owners are ensconced so I'll start with Thiago Motta who's doing fantastic things with a pretty middling team on paper. Think Zhirkzee for €40mn wouldn't be terrible business. Nice to see a number 9 that's also a footballer.
 
We are out of Europe and the Carabao Cup, so only have the PL and FA Cup to service, and by the end of the January window it may just be the PL, who knows...

Priority number #1 should be trimming down the squad considerably, to cut the deadwood, free up wages and provide a pathway for youth players into the first team.

In our history a strong academy typically results in a strong first team. Let's give the kids opportunity.

By only playing one match per week, we can look to find some consistency on the pitch with our first choice players spending more time in training together and lining up with similar XIs game on game, instead of heavy rotations, which will build chemistry.

Team for the remainder of 23/24 season:

SENIOR / BENCH / YOUTH

GK: Onana - Bayindir/Heaton - Vitek

RB: AWB - Dalot - Nolan
RCB: Maguire - Evans - Kambwala
LCB: Martinez - Shaw - Bennett
LB: Reguilon - Malacia - ???

DM: Amrabat - Mainoo - Oyedele
CM: Mount - Hannibal - Gore
AM: Fernandes - Shoretire - Hansen

RW: Antony - Amad - Forson
LW: Garnacho - Pellistri - Mejia
ST: Hojlund - Rashford - Hugill


For Sale/Out of Squad:

D: Varane, Lindelof
M: Van de Beek, McTominay, Casemiro, Eriksen
F: Martial, Sancho


The reality is we probably won't be able to shift out 8 players in January, but the more we can clear out, the better.

The new CEO has a reputation for streamlining the squad, and Ratcliffe has noted he wants to focus on the academy, which is what we need tbh.

Trim the fat, get the core playing together for 6 months and bolster that in the summer.
 
PezzDogg95 said:
We are out of Europe and the Carabao Cup, so only have the PL and FA Cup to service, and by the end of the January window it may just be the PL, who knows...

Priority number #1 should be trimming down the squad considerably, to cut the deadwood, free up wages and provide a pathway for youth players into the first team.

In our history a strong academy typically results in a strong first team. Let's give the kids opportunity.

By only playing one match per week, we can look to find some consistency on the pitch with our first choice players spending more time in training together and lining up with similar XIs game on game, instead of heavy rotations, which will build chemistry.

Team for the remainder of 23/24 season:

SENIOR / BENCH / YOUTH

GK: Onana - Bayindir/Heaton - Vitek

RB: AWB - Dalot - Nolan
RCB: Maguire - Evans - Kambwala
LCB: Martinez - Shaw - Bennett
LB: Reguilon - Malacia - ???

DM: Amrabat - Mainoo - Oyedele
CM: Mount - Hannibal - Gore
AM: Fernandes - Shoretire - Hansen

RW: Antony - Amad - Forson
LW: Garnacho - Pellistri - Mejia
ST: Hojlund - Rashford - Hugill


For Sale/Out of Squad:

D: Varane, Lindelof
M: Van de Beek, McTominay, Casemiro, Eriksen
F: Martial, Sancho


The reality is we probably won't be able to shift out 8 players in January, but the more we can clear out, the better.

The new CEO has a reputation for streamlining the squad, and Ratcliffe has noted he wants to focus on the academy, which is what we need tbh.

Trim the fat, get the core playing together for 6 months and bolster that in the summer.
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Completely agree with the ‘Trim the fat’ sentiment and how that should be a bigger priority for the rebuild. I don’t think those 8 departures can all or should all happen in Jan, but over Jan and the summer quite possibly.

Whether we bring in new faces in Jan I guess will depend on who we are able to shift, who is available out of our targets, and whether we even have money to spend…

Assuming we can shift at least one player on for decent money to give us room to make additions, I’d like to see something like below done in Jan:

Outs:
Sancho >> Loan (or Saudi)
Van de Beek >> Loan
Martial >> Sold £0
McTominay >> Sold £30m

In:
Andre Trindade £30-35m
Guirassy? Zirkzee? M.Leonardo? £15-25m
 
RedUnited86 said:
Start with rebuilding the midfield, it's an embarrassing collection of misfits.

I still think the midfield 3 of Matic, Herrera and Pogba has been the best combination of technical ability, intelligence and work ethic (I do use that term loosely with Pogba in the same sentence) we've had in midfield since Fergie retired.
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Agreed, a midfield rebuild is needed. I think its time to move on with Bruno, Mount, Eriksen, Casemiro, Mctom, VDB.

Replacing them with Zubimendi (as a Rodri role) - Thuram (B2B) and Wirtz (CAM) would be a great start. Its really not that damn hard to fix.
 
Red_Orchestra said:
Agreed, a midfield rebuild is needed. I think its time to move on with Bruno, Mount, Eriksen, Casemiro, Mctom, VDB.

Replacing them with Zubimendi (as a Rodri role) - Thuram (B2B) and Wirtz (CAM) would be a great start. Its really not that damn hard to fix.
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Well, again, it sort of is. Would you like me to explain why?
 
UTAretro said:
Well, again, it sort of is. Would you like me to explain why?
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Please do then I'll tell you why it's actually possible in this case if management is realistic about the fees or possible pay off in some cases .
Only issue would be moving Mount but I don't think we need to sell him just yet and Buying Wirtz .
 
------------------------ Onana -----------------------

----- Todibo -------- Varane -------- Martinez --

----------- Mainoo ----------- Casemiro -----------

----------- Amad --------------------- Mount ---------

Frimpong ---------- Hojlund ----------------Shaw

I would like to see something like this i future, with all players back from injuries and one transfer window to do the job. Setup is very similar to what Leverkusen is currently playing and I think we have some players with personalen to play that way, alongside with some key signings to make.

Obvious transfer targets would be RCB who is comfortable defending the right side channel in 1v1 situations (Jean-Clair Todibo) and very attacking right wing back (Jeremie Frimpong or Pedro Porro). Bonus signings will be someone who will replace Casemiro long term (Exequiel Palacios) and rotation option for Martinez (Fran Medina).

Although I think Hojlund would have better service with these four players around him than he is currently having, I would also look for someone to share minutes with him up front. Bringing back Mason Greenwood would also help to the attacking part of the team.

Ideally we will all of the sudden, with a few right signings, have a solid group of players with also interesting options to bring something different from the bench: Garnacho, Bruno, Eriksen, Dalot, Antony, Rashford etc.

I know there is nothing that warrants starting Mount ahead of team's captain Bruno, but that would be my personal choice as I trust Mount more to work in some structured setup than Bruno.
 
gajender said:
Please do then I'll tell you why it's actually possible in this case if management is realistic about the fees or possible pay off in some cases .
Only issue would be moving Mount but I don't think we need to sell him just yet and Buying Wirtz .
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Well, football transfers aren’t simple. You can’t just say in a transfer window “Right, let’s sell Bruno, Mount, Eriksen, Casemiro, McTominay, Van Der Beek” - because it doesn’t work like that.

Real transfers aren’t like playing Football Manager. For a transfer to work, you need a lot of moving pieces to slot together simultaneously.

Specifically:

1) You need a buying club who is willing to match the selling club’s valuation of the player.

2) The buying club must be willing to offer an acceptable contract to the player, including signing on fees, bonuses and length of contract. This will generally exceed their current deal. With Manchester United already paying some of the largest wages in the world, few clubs can afford to match their wages. In reality this means Manchester United will be paying a percentage of the player’s wages after his transfers to a new club.

3) The club must be able to work with the player’s agent and representatives, pay their fees, and have a good working relationship to make the deal happen. Some are easier to work with than others.

4) There has to be incentive for the player to move clubs. They have a legally binding contract and don’t have to go anywhere if they don’t want to. You can’t force say Christian Eriksen to move to a smaller club and take a pay cut/shorter contract than his existing one unless he and his agent opt to do that. For obvious reasons, this is uncommon in older players.

5) The players you’ve listed have very low resale value. Bruno Fernandes, Mason Mount and Scott McTominay are the only players mentioned who could potentially command decent fees. If there is a buying club who wants them. And if they can take on their wages and afford the transfer valuation.


“Zubimendi (as a Rodri role) - Thuram (B2B) and Wirtz (CAM)”

The three players you’ve listed above are in form, in demand players who are going to be expensive in both wages and transfer fees.

Florian Wirtz alone is likely to be £90m+, Zubimendi is said to have a €60m release clause, and Thuram is not happening any time soon for a multitude of reasons.

Despite Ratcliffe’s takeover, you are still beholden to FFP and balancing the books. It’ll be one or two new additions maximum with minimal outgoings.

I hope this has helped. Real life football isn’t like FIFA or Football Manager.
 
UTAretro said:
Well, football transfers aren’t simple. You can’t just say in a transfer window “Right, let’s sell Bruno, Mount, Eriksen, Casemiro, McTominay, Van Der Beek” - because it doesn’t work like that.

Real transfers aren’t like playing Football Manager. For a transfer to work, you need a lot of moving pieces to slot together simultaneously.

Specifically:

1) You need a buying club who is willing to match the selling club’s valuation of the player.

2) The buying club must be willing to offer an acceptable contract to the player, including signing on fees, bonuses and length of contract. This will generally exceed their current deal. With Manchester United already paying some of the largest wages in the world, few clubs can afford to match their wages. In reality this means Manchester United will be paying a percentage of the player’s wages after his transfers to a new club.

3) The club must be able to work with the player’s agent and representatives, pay their fees, and have a good working relationship to make the deal happen. Some are easier to work with than others.

4) There has to be incentive for the player to move clubs. They have a legally binding contract and don’t have to go anywhere if they don’t want to. You can’t force say Christian Eriksen to move to a smaller club and take a pay cut/shorter contract than his existing one unless he and his agent opt to do that. For obvious reasons, this is uncommon in older players.

5) The players you’ve listed have very low resale value. Bruno Fernandes, Mason Mount and Scott McTominay are the only players mentioned who could potentially command decent fees. If there is a buying club who wants them. And if they can take on their wages and afford the transfer valuation.


“Zubimendi (as a Rodri role) - Thuram (B2B) and Wirtz (CAM)”

The three players you’ve listed above are in form, in demand players who are going to be expensive in both wages and transfer fees.

Florian Wirtz alone is likely to be £90m+, Zubimendi is said to have a €60m release clause, and Thuram is not happening any time soon for a multitude of reasons.

Despite Ratcliffe’s takeover, you are still beholden to FFP and balancing the books. It’ll be one or two new additions maximum with minimal outgoings.

I hope this has helped. Real life football isn’t like FIFA or Football Manager.
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Who should United look at getting then? That’s the actual question
 
I think a left back like Tierney would be useful to challenge Shaw. Shaw has been missing too often this season and it has impacted us badly.
 
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