Well you said they might get someone from abroad, I was just using that.A better player for £20M than an England international with the experience he has, I’d like someone to show me those players.
l know how the ‘market’ works, one part is not selling at a lower price than you think your asset if worth. They offer £20M we seem to want £40M so let’s try at least to get them or someone to £30M.
You think he’s worth £20M or less, I think more, let’s see if/what he goes for.
And if it were up to others, we would just keep all of our deadwood sat on the bench taking up both squad and salary space because we expect unrealistic transfer fees.If up to some on here we’d let half the squad go for free just because they’re on high wages.
He was a terrible transfer for someone trying to win the league or aspires to. This is west ham we're talking about, he will instantly be the most senior player and best defender at their club.Even if he drops his salary to 150k/week, at 4 year contract, he will cost them 30m in wages. Add 30m in salary and he would cost them 60m, with 0 resale value and after he has become 30.
For context, we got him when he was better, and in these 4 years he cost us 80m in transfer fee and 40m in wages so 120m. If we get 30m from him, he would have cost us 90m. While he was 4 years younger.
Now let’s be real. He is considered a unanimously terrible transfer. Getting a 4 years older version of him for 33% cheaper is also a terrible transfer. It does not make much sense from other club’s POV.
The faster we learn that he is not an asset but it is a liability the better.
It’s a business, you don’t just give assets away. The club have made many stupid decisions on contract extensions and salaries over the last 10 years, it’s going to take a while sort it all out.And if it were up to others, we would just keep all of our deadwood sat on the bench taking up both squad and salary space because we expect unrealistic transfer fees.
So we agree on £30M, you’d just rather blink first and sell cheap. Hold out a bit, never take the first offer.Well you said they might get someone from abroad, I was just using that.
It's irrelevant what price we put on him, if we don't sell him that doesn't mean him value is higher, just means we decide it's not worth selling him.
I don't know what he's worth, we will find out. I think somewhere around 30 is most likely, but if we don't sell, we are screwing ourselves.
I'm fine with holding out a bit, but at some point we are playing with fire.So we agree on £30M, you’d just rather blink first and sell cheap. Hold out a bit, never take the first offer.
I'm not suggesting we just give him away. 26-28m (his amortization value) would be acceptable in my view. I seriously doubt there'll be other suitors considering his wages.It’s a business, you don’t just give assets away. The club have made many stupid decisions on contract extensions and salaries over the last 10 years, it’s going to take a while sort it all out.
I don’t think £30M is unrealistic for Maguire, McTominay I’d take the same to be honest, may squeeze someone for £35M.I'm not suggesting we just give him away. 26-28m (his amortization value) would be acceptable in my view. I seriously doubt there'll be other suitors considering his wages.
I agree that the club have made stupid decisions. If we start handing out more realistic contracts then we should be in a better negotiating position in terms of future sales. However, we should not be trying to squeeze unrealistic fees for likes of Maguire (and McTominay). If we scare West Ham away we'll be stuck with both.
He won't be on the bench. He is 6th choice CB.
Exactly, it's mad that this has become a wild take in this thread.I don’t think £30M is unrealistic for Maguire, McTominay I’d take the same to be honest, may squeeze someone for £35M.
Yep, thats what I was thinking too.I'd have been happy if he was let go for free, never mind a couple of millions.
He'd be a sensible buy for some midtable side, given that they don't plan on playing a high defensive line.
And if the buying club makes United pay some of the wages, of course.
Just make it happen for crying out loud.
why would he just keep occupying space in our squad, and on such wages?
He'll have no problem doing so as is his right.
We should be miffed if that happens, and will have ourselves to blame.
We will get £30m for him eventually. For all the shit we give him he will instantly be the best defender in a team like West Ham.
He's miles better on the ball than both of them and better in the air. In other defensive stats there's hardly anything in it. Aguerd and Maguire would be a very good balanced pairing.Just to reiterate what I said last night, statistically across all measures he'd be no.2 at West Ham behind Aguerd and in front of Zouma, though on both counts the difference isn't drastic.
It'd be a solid 3 though that'd allow Moyes to not need to buy a 6 this summer.
As a 2 defensive unit, he costs too much versus the improvement made, the wage increase and the fact we have a limited, albeit decent sized budget.
An extra 5-10m on Maguire means we probably don't have the money for our first choice midfielder...and that is *far* more important this season.
Feels more fans need to understand this. He’s a costly transfer over the duration of the contract and West Ham’s bid is with that in mind. It’s either that or is losing out because we’ve subsidised the wages.Even if he drops his salary to 150k/week, at 4 year contract, he will cost them 30m in wages. Add 30m in salary and he would cost them 60m, with 0 resale value and after he has become 30.
For context, we got him when he was better, and in these 4 years he cost us 80m in transfer fee and 40m in wages so 120m. If we get 30m from him, he would have cost us 90m. While he was 4 years younger.
Now let’s be real. He is considered a unanimously terrible transfer. Getting a 4 years older version of him for 33% cheaper is also a terrible transfer. It does not make much sense from other club’s POV.
The faster we learn that he is not an asset but it is a liability the better.
This notion is also false but repeated enough to become legion. If he goes there, he will be their best defender at certain aspects, but definitely reliant on his partner for that what he lacks. Zouma is worth so much to West Ham because he is eclectic, mobile and athletic - he can be set briefs and can execute them, which affords flexibility and gives them a variable defensive line, if they do choose. Maguire does not and he will not be better at handling rapid, mobile attackers in open space than Zouma, so this notion he just goes there and is their best defender outright is a fantasy.We will get £30m for him eventually. For all the shit we give him he will instantly be the best defender in a team like West Ham.
It's going to be £25m plus add-ons probably. I would take that. There's not fecking way we're getting £40m. If we do, then i would be very happy to be wrong. They would be out of their mind to offer that.
Yeah, it’s not like I don’t want to get higher value for him but it’s not the reality of the market. McT holds a bigger value and can fetch 30-40m if the right offer comes in, but Maguire - it’s either sell him now or pretty much free next year.That's how I see it. And I suspect that everyone know that you are right but people are also stuck with the price that we paid or the price that someone else paid for a totally different player in a totally different context. I don't mind the idea of trying to get more but 20m is a good starting point.
If United offered 20m to West Ham for the current version of Maguire, people wouldn't be happy, they would question the club's scouts, Murtough, Fletcher and ETH.
Have we really got to the point where we're overrating Zouma over Maguire? Zouma doesn't handle rapid, mobile attackers as it is, hence why they came 14th. Aguerd is their best defender currently and he's average on the ball and not fantastic in the air. Maguire has been part of far better teams than West Ham and played better than any of their defenders. I don't like Maguire and he has obvious flaws, but he is better than Zouma will ever be.This notion is also false but repeated enough to become legion. If he goes there, he will be their best defender at certain aspects, but definitely reliant on his partner for that what he lacks. Zouma is worth so much to West Ham because he is eclectic, mobile and athletic - he can be set briefs and can execute them, which affords flexibility and gives them a variable defensive line, if they do choose. Maguire does not and he will not be better at handling rapid, mobile attackers in open space than Zouma, so this notion he just goes there and is their best defender outright is a fantasy.
You'd hope so but I wouldn't be too fast with those conclusions. Antony transfer raised more than a few eyebrows. Lets hope we turned the corner but lets not act as if we are in shallow waters already.He will be warming the bench next season. His presence at United speaks volumes of how disorganised and aimless we were in the transfer market. Almost farcical.
I think we've learnt our lesson now judging from the first-team players who have come in since ETH took over.
Being wanted by Mourinho isn't anything to built something on. If Pep really wanted him is hear-say. Might just as well have been PR by Manchester United trying to big up their triumph. Just like with Fred.20m is an insult. How much are the centre backs he keeps out of the England side worth?
The market is inflated so he’s worth 40m.
You do not get a half decent player for under 40m. Harry is a half decent player who was wanted by both Mourinho and Pep when he came to us. Just because it hasn’t worked doesn’t make him a bad player, for 20m he is a good sub for us.
Some mugs may have considered it like that. It has been a desaster of a transfer even back then, no chance it could have anything else because of that gross level of overpayment. This forum here was desperate for new dawn back then and was happy to follow (fecking) Ole just subscribing to his ideas. This shouldn't really be used as a measure.At the time he was considered a good signing based on his form at Leicester and the England team. It wasn't just the club and team management, a lot of the fans (including plenty of people on this forum) rated him. For whatever reason, his confidence has looked shot for a long while.
But all this supposed good work from Maguire is years ago. If we as fans know we don't want him here, other people will know it too. Best defender or not, his reputation isn't great, he is on the wrong side of 30 and even when he arrived with us, he was considered slow.Have we really got to the point where we're overrating Zouma over Maguire? Zouma doesn't handle rapid, mobile attackers as it is, hence why they came 14th. Aguerd is their best defender currently and he's average on the ball and not fantastic in the air. Maguire has been part of far better teams than West Ham and played better than any of their defenders. I don't like Maguire and he has obvious flaws, but he is better than Zouma will ever be.
Pau Torres went for 31.5m this year. Akanji to city for 15m, Collins for 20m this year. All good CB’s with promise and resale value.A better player for £20M than an England international with the experience he has, I’d like someone to show me those players.
l know how the ‘market’ works, one part is not selling at a lower price than you think your asset if worth. They offer £20M we seem to want £40M so let’s try at least to get them or someone to £30M.
You think he’s worth £20M or less, I think more, let’s see if/what he goes for.
That's a bit of stretch, they finished 14th because they had the 13th worse attack and and 12th worse defense. It's not because Zouma can't handle rapid and mobile attackers. If anything scoring 42 goals is closer to be their biggest issue if we wanted to pinpoint one..Have we really got to the point where we're overrating Zouma over Maguire? Zouma doesn't handle rapid, mobile attackers as it is, hence why they came 14th. Aguerd is their best defender currently and he's average on the ball and not fantastic in the air. Maguire has been part of far better teams than West Ham and played better than any of their defenders. I don't like Maguire and he has obvious flaws, but he is better than Zouma will ever be.
Surely a 5th choice CB won’t be more than 20m pounds..We won't get a replacement for 20m. It's not enough to get a replacement. Not a quality one that is. I'd rather keep Maguire this season and after the takeover sell him.
I’d rather get rid - we might be able to squeeze a bit more out of West Ham with add ons. We'd also save a lot of wages. Sign Jonny Evans on a season deal, he'd be fine as emergency cover as Maguire would be, and he can work with the youngsters as well.We won't get a replacement for 20m. It's not enough to get a replacement. Not a quality one that is. I'd rather keep Maguire this season and after the takeover sell him.
True, that was a lazy point by me to accentuate a point. I still stand by although Zouma is more athletic, he's not as good as Maguire on the whole. I think Aguerd and Maguire would be a very good CB pairing that compliment each other very well and would make them a far better defence.That's a bit of stretch, they finished 14th because they had the 13th worse attack and and 12th worse defense. It's not because Zouma can't handle rapid and mobile attackers. If anything scoring 42 goals is closer to be their biggest issue if we wanted to pinpoint one..
Am I the only one who thinks 20m is okay? Not ideal but if we want to let him go and fetch some money back this could be the moment. If we are still hoping for him as a backup then keeping him makes sense regardless if its 20 or 30 mil because the replacement will cost more.
Yep, 25 plus add ons up to around 30 would be a good deal for all parties. WHU still have to offer him a high wage as well.It's going to be £25m plus add-ons probably. I would take that. There's not fecking way we're getting £40m. If we do, then i would be very happy to be wrong. They would be out of their mind to offer that.
Yep, 25 plus add ons up to around 30 would be a good deal for all parties. WHU still have to offer him a high wage as well.
Evans who was not good enough for us 7 years ago in his 20s is now good for us at age 35?I’d rather get rid - we might be able to squeeze a bit more out of West Ham with add ons. We'd also save a lot of wages. Sign Jonny Evans on a season deal, he'd be fine as emergency cover as Maguire would be, and he can work with the youngsters as well.
Am I the only one who thinks 20m is okay? Not ideal but if we want to let him go and fetch some money back this could be the moment. If we are still hoping for him as a backup then keeping him makes sense regardless if its 20 or 30 mil because the replacement will cost more.
I would be ok with this. He is our 4. or 5. choice CB. No use for him and if we could get 20M and get rid of him, it would be ok. His price and status has collapsed in the last 2-3 years. And we need to sell to sign new players. 10M from here, 20M from there. It could mean one extra signing.
Yeah, hopefully after this summer (& with the team continuing on an upward trajectory this coming season) we’d have cleared out most of our overpaid deadwood and the teams value/earnings would at least resemble some par against their achievements.Yeah wages are such a sticking point
Which is weird really, however much we have paid for him doesn't dictate the current market. Keeping him also means we are paying his wages that is above average. It's like a fancy car if you don't use it anymore better to sell it because the cost of maintenance + tax will only add up and the value will go down year by year.My trouble is I keep seeing how much we paid and look at a quarter of it as an insult
I think so too. Maguire's value will go down further next year as he'll be 31 and approaching 32... add to that is the minimum gametime he'd have had by then. He'll be in decline to the eyes of most club due to lack of gametime+his age.I would be ok with this. He is our 4. or 5. choice CB. No use for him and if we could get 20M and get rid of him, it would be ok. His price and status has collapsed in the last 2-3 years. And we need to sell to sign new players. 10M from here, 20M from there. It could mean one extra signing.
Yeah, hopefully after this summer (& with the team continuing on an upward trajectory this coming season) we’d have cleared out most of our overpaid deadwood and the teams value/earnings would at least resemble some par against their achievements.
