Club Sale | It’s done!

[Dion]

But he’s been trying to define it and hasn’t made sense every time he’s tried?
I still don’t understand arguing in his corner here. The man thinks Qatar is an oil state feck sake.
There’s still the semantics of not even knowing if this would make us state owned or not despite all the pretending to know to the contrary.
This is peer reviewed and here’s a paper on the subject but actually showing we would be state owned seems beyond people behind telling us we know, we just know.
Is it fact that rich people in Qatar need permission as to how they spend their money? Do we actually know this?
I do think we would be state owned but there’s still a good chance we’re not.

I asked for examples where he's tried and failed but you've repeatedly failed to provide it. I'm not defending Delaney, I'm criticising your stance for being utterly baseless. If the most substantial point you have is that he uses "oil state" as shorthand for a country which derives the majority of it's wealth from fossil fuels then you really do have no leg to stand on.

And like I've said to other people on here, if the best argument you can make is that the son of the former PM, member of the royal family, employee of a state funded bank, directly underwritten by a Qatari SWF is spending 5% of Qatar's GDP and that not being state ownership, then again you're just relying on telling yourself comfortable lies because the truth makes it difficult to continue to enjoy the football club you like.

 

[romufc]

I don't want state ownership, through whatever means, and am baffled by people who are supportive of a bid, regardless of the ethical issues, that is not clearly being genuine about the source of the funds and bidding through a company (Nine Two Foundation) that doesn't actually seem to currently exist.

The ownership wont be state though.... Its private individual. He may then get some state funding but it will be OWNED by an inndividual. I dont know why its hard to understand that?

 

[Mickeza]

This is apparently his dad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Khalifa_Al_Thani

His dad is the guy in the link given to you. He’s the man who gave Prince Charles some notes in a few Sainsbury’s carrier bags.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

How can a guy who isn't even worth what he's bidding buy the club without debt?

Getting Portsmouth vibes from this Al-Thanini fella.

 

[Rightnr]

PM I think, but yeah it's quite clearly state-backed regardless.

His brother was Emir and his nephew is now. So pretty close to the state.

I prefer the Qatar bid but let's not pretend.

 

[RORY65]

This is apparently his dad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Khalifa_Al_Thani

That's a different guy, I think. If you look at the link I sent previously his son, who is bidding, is listed as the 2nd child.

 

[Dion]

Seriously? You might want to actually supply the evidence to back up the claims you are making...

I've repeatedly stated the direct links to sovereign wealth the current Qatari bidder has.

 

[Raoul]

I didn't say he isn't affiliated with the state, I said it doesn't mean the state is the buyer.
E.g for instance if I do a deal with someone from Qatar where I work, someone who was the Son of a former Emir, then they would be a PEP (politically exposed person) but not the state itself.
Is he a member of the state itself no. Now possibly this is to work around some things, or possibly he is buying from his own interest. I have not stated which either way, nor to I pretend to know the answer like some

Where do you think his money comes from ? Everything in Qatar originates from gas money, which includes everyone in the extended ruling family. There's no such thing as a self-made Qatari billionaire.

 

[Kinsella]

United owned by Qatari, City by Abu Dhabi, Newcastle by Saudis. The prem will generate more money than ever before. I wonder how many clubs in the prem are owned by British people or businesses, and how many of those won a major trophy in the last 10 years. The world has indeed gone global, and I am absolutely loving it.

So the league becomes a Middle East proxy battle? Great!

We should probably update the title of the Carabou Cup Final thread then.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Everything in Qatar originates from gas money

You mean like the fossil fuel?

 

[romufc]

Where do you think his money comes from ? Everything in Qatar originates from gas money, which includes everyone in the extended ruling family. There's no such thing as a self-made Qatari billionaire.

Is the issue you have state ownership or state funding?

The ownership at the moment is a private individual, who may get state funding.

The issue which are cited are the laws and rules of the ME state correct, we should not associate Manutd with the ME states?

 

[Raoul]

I don't think that's his father. His father is the former PM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Jassim_bin_Jaber_Al_Thani

Thanks. Similar names it seems

 

[Cassidy]

Where do you think his money comes from ? Everything in Qatar originates from gas money, which includes everyone in the extended ruling family. There's no such thing as a self-made Qatari billionaire.

Money may have originated from some place and later be private money, I mean... its quite obvious what is being said. There are plenty of billionaires in other countries who money came from state subsidies etc but then funds became private funds.
Again I'm not saying its private or state, I'm saying I'll make that assessment when the evidence is clear

 

[RORY65]

The ownership wont be state though.... Its private individual. He may then get some state funding but it will be OWNED by an inndividual. I dont know why its hard to understand that?

Because that's just circumventing issues they might have with having the bid accepted, that's being completely disingenuous. If the Qatari state funded a poster on here to buy the club as the acceptable face of the bid would we consider them the genuine buyer?

 

[Cassidy]

I've repeatedly stated the direct links to sovereign wealth the current Qatari bidder has.

You haven't provided the evidence to the statement I clearly stated as being false.

 

[cyberman]

I asked for examples where he's tried and failed but you've repeatedly failed to provide it. I'm not defending Delaney, I'm criticising your stance for being utterly baseless. If the most substantial point you have is that he uses "oil state" as shorthand for a country which derives the majority of it's wealth from fossil fuels then you really do have no leg to stand on.

And like I've said to other people on here, if the best argument you can make is that the son of the former PM, member of the royal family, employee of a state funded bank, directly underwritten by a Qatari SWF is spending 5% of Qatar's GDP and that not being state ownership, then again you're just relying on telling yourself comfortable lies because the truth makes it difficult to continue to enjoy the football club you like.

Go read his Twitter, you’re the one blindly defending him and it makes me question the points you’re trying to make on here.
That’s not even the argument I’m making, I’m asking for proof. Is asking for proof the best argument to make? I’d like to think so.
I was all on board reading about being state owned etc until posters made out that everything was unbelievable. Random posters on here always had the inside track. What broke it for me was somehow saying someone in Qatar couldn’t have been a fan of United despite them winning a major European title against one of the biggest teams in the world in 91 in a match televised world wide
As if they’re taking over City from league 2.
Does everything go through the royal family and if it does would it mean they own everything or did they just have to ask for the ok? There’s a massive difference here. Plus the stature of the man could suggest he’d be allowed to branch out like this.
This isn’t me defending Qatar, it’s me realising I’m taking everyone else’s point and assumption on face value.
If anybody from Qatar or the ME reads this could you answer some of these questions?

 

[romufc]

Because that's just circumventing issues they might have with having the bid accepted, that's being completely disingenuous. If the Qatari state funded a poster on here to buy the club as the acceptable face of the bid would we consider them the genuine buyer?

I mean if the poster was on the board of credit Suisse and the board of QIB then yes, I would consider them as a serious buyer. Unless you think Credit Suisse is also Qatari state funded.

 

[Dion]

You haven't provided the evidence to the statement I clearly stated as being false.

I have highlighted the source of wealth and why it is obviously linked to the state. All it would take for you to disprove my "clearly false" statement is an example of one Qatari with the with to buy Man Utd who isn't directly linked to the state. Since you described it as "clearly" false you must know of one?

Alas, you don't. because they don't exist.

 

[Adam-Utd]

So the league becomes a Middle East proxy battle? Great!

We should probably update the title of the Carabou Cup Final thread then.

The premier league was bought out a long time ago. There's no point crying about it anymore, we just have to accept it and either enjoy it or take a moral stand and stop watching it.

 

[noddyutd]

https://onefootball.com/en/news/man...gue-to-end-deal-with-pr-firm-hanover-36834452

Interesting

 

[Dion]

Go read his Twitter, you’re the one blindly defending him and it makes me question the points you’re trying to make on here.
That’s not even the argument I’m making, I’m asking for proof. Is asking for proof the best argument to make? I’d like to think so.
I was all on board reading about being state owned etc until posters made out that everything was unbelievable. Random posters on here always had the inside track. What broke it for me was somehow saying someone in Qatar couldn’t have been a fan of United despite them winning a major European title against one of the biggest teams in the world in 91 in a match televised world wide
As if they’re taking over City from league 2.
Does everything go through the royal family and if it does does it mean they own everything or did they just have to ask for the ok? There’s a massive difference here. Plus the stature of the man could suggest he’d be allowed to branch out like this.
This isn’t me defending Qatar, it’s me realising I’m taking everyone else’s point and assumption on face value.

I have read his twitter. I asked you for examples of where he has failed to understand what sportswashing is and you've failed to provide any. You've then segued into the denialism of "it's not a state bid anyway".

If you have tweets from Delaney you think show a lack of understanding of sportswashing then share them, but we can't do anything about the things you imagine to have been said.

 

[Dion]

The premier league was bought out a long time ago. There's no point crying about it anymore, we just have to accept it and either enjoy it or take a moral stand and stop watching it.

I've supported United for over 30 years, forgive me but you don't get to tell anyone else when they can stop fighting for what's left of the soul of their club.

 

[Withnail]

But he’s been trying to define it and hasn’t made sense every time he’s tried?
I still don’t understand arguing in his corner here. The man thinks Qatar is an oil state feck sake.
There’s still the semantics of not even knowing if this would make us state owned or not despite all the pretending to know to the contrary.
This is peer reviewed and here’s a paper on the subject but actually showing we would be state owned seems beyond people behind telling us we know, we just know.
Is it fact that rich people in Qatar need permission as to how they spend their money? Do we actually know this?
I do think we would be state owned but there’s still a good chance we’re not.

I don't think we really need to lower the debate further by arguing over whether or not Delaney is a clueless twat who's stealing a living.

I would have thought it was obvious he's to be ignored.

 

[Cassidy]

I have highlighted the source of wealth and why it is obviously linked to the state. All it would take for you to disprove my "clearly false" statement is an example of one Qatari with the with to buy Man Utd who isn't directly linked to the state. Since you described it as "clearly" false you must know of one?

Alas, you don't. because they don't exist.

Thats not what I said was false, statement still stands

 

[enghuei]

Thanks. Similar names it seems

Is it that hard to just admit that you were wrong?

 

[DevilRed]

I've supported United for over 30 years, forgive me but you don't get to tell anyone else when they can stop fighting for what's left of the soul of their club.

What exactly IS this soul you speak of?

Because I can't fathom how it hasn't died a thousand deaths under the Glazers already.

With new ownership, maybe we might be able to revitalise the club and actually get back to being a football club first and foremost, rather than continue as an ATM machine for a family in florida.

 

[noddyutd]

This is apparently his dad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Khalifa_Al_Thani

That’s not his father , his father i am sure is Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani.

a former prime minister of Qatar , the one you show is actually the current emir father.
Correct me if i am wrong

 

[Withnail]

I didn't say he isn't affiliated with the state, I said it doesn't mean the state is the buyer.
E.g for instance if I do a deal with someone from Qatar where I work, someone who was the Son of a former Emir, then they would be a PEP (politically exposed person) but not the state itself.
Is he a member of the state itself no. Now possibly this is to work around some things, or possibly he is buying from his own interest. I have not stated which either way, nor do I pretend to know the answer like some

Come on mate. Where's he getting the upwards of 5 billion to buy the club and the all the extra money that's going to be invested in infrastructure?

How much is he worth personally that he can afford it?

 

[RORY65]

I mean if the poster was on the board of credit Suisse and the board of QIB then yes, I would consider them as a serious buyer. Unless you think Credit Suisse is also Qatari state funded.

Guess who are the 2nd largest shareholders in Credit Suisse? I'll give you a clue, it's the same sovereign wealth fund who are the main shareholders in QIB and of whom his dad used to be the CEO.

 

[Dion]

Thats not what I said was false, statement still stands

And you've also ignored the rest of the post. I've explained it to you multiple times. You are now simply putting your head in the sand.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I've supported United for over 30 years, forgive me but you don't get to tell anyone else when they can stop fighting for what's left of the soul of their club.

You can fight all you like, but the premier league innocence died a long time ago.

We will still be the same club whether owned by the Glazers, Qataris or Elon Musk.

 

[Levi1]

The ownership wont be state though.... Its private individual. He may then get some state funding but it will be OWNED by an inndividual. I dont know why its hard to understand that?

You mean like the time the UK government gave you a billion pounds for a private jet without wanting anything in exchange? I see your point now

 

[Raoul]

Is it that hard to just admit that you were wrong?

This guy is also a member of the Qatari ruling family (ie the State of Qatar), which was the overarching point of the issue.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Unquestionable that for the clubs finances and investment, Qatar is far and away the best option, morality aside.

Is it though? How well has PSG been ran?

 

[romufc]

You mean like the time the UK government gave you a billion pounds for a private jet without wanting anything in exchange? I see your point now

yep, like the point of a profit driven company in INEOS spending £6bn and taking out loans servicing it with nothing in exchange. I am glad you see the point.

 

[Raoul]

That’s not his father , his father i am sure is Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani.

a former prime minister of Qatar , the one you show is actually the current emir father.
Correct me if i am wrong

You're not wrong. Got the names mixed up.

 

[Mockney]

That doesn't make the buyer the state.

Unless I’ve missed it (and I may have) no one has so far explained why this guy whose personal wealth is £4b less than Jim Ratcliffe’s (and is the son of a Prime Minister) is going to buy the club outright, clear the debt, rebuild the facilities and invest in the squad, all without help from the state?

It just seems incredibly weird that people are pouring over Ineos’s financials and how they’d structure the deal, whilst saying this guy will just magically be able to fund everything, and more, without state funds. And if you question that, you’ve got an agenda?

And personally I’d like it explained, cos I’d be a lot more on board with a private owner than a state one.

 

[prateik]

All state ownership is bad.. It has nothing to do with Qatar.
I dont think the fans should be happy with the club being owned by any state/country.

I know the Qatari bidder is "independent" and not officially state backed.. and that might work legally.. but does anyone really believe that?

I cant believe people are happy with it just because a few $$ are being thrown our way.

The league needs to sort out its "fit and proper" test and start implementing it properly..
I'll be fine with any (truly) private buyer/consortium that can pass the fit and proper test. I dont care where they are from.

All this is meaningless.. its not in my hands. It'll almost certainly be Qatar.. I am not going to change my tune and pretend to be happy about it.. it sucks.

 

[romufc]

Guess who are the 2nd largest shareholders in Credit Suisse? I'll give you a clue, it's the same sovereign wealth fund who are the main shareholders in QIB and of whom his dad used to be the CEO.

Right, so in your opinion Credit Suisse is Qatari state owned?

 

[Dion]

What exactly IS this soul you speak of?

Because I can't fathom how it hasn't died a thousand deaths under the Glazers already.

With new ownership, maybe we might be able to revitalise the club and actually get back to being a football club first and foremost, rather than continue as an ATM machine for a family in florida.

The Glazer's have done untold damage to the football club, nobody has said otherwise. But hardship and poor ownership hasn't made me feel less attached to the club and it never will.

The Glazers were literally a parasite, but they never managed to change what the club was about despite how much the tried because the fanbase was well and truly against them. Having owners run us as a state plaything fundamentally changes everything about the club and you can already see it. You already have prominent supporters newsletters publishing transphobic bigotry in defence of the takeover. What is admirable about that?