It's the same reason in the event of an INEOS purchase the debt wouldn't be put on the club. The club couldn't afford to service it.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Yep. It either stems from hypocrisy, a kind of wilful blindness, or just sheer ignorance. (I wouldn’t discount the latter btw…many seemed surprised that the Glazers didn’t own 100% of the shares in the club when the mention of majority ownership in the INEOS bid was flagged up)
We shall see when they release the results in 5 days.
Elliot and Glazers. Marriage from hell.
I can agree with that.
Yep it is sad as 99.9% of United fans want rid of the Glazers.
The interesting thing though for me here is if Qatar weren't in the picture then I reckon the vast majority would have no objections to the Ratcliffe/INEOS bid but that wouldn't be the case if Qatar were the only ones bidding.
1) INEOS can’t do it legally
2) Anyone who thinks the club won’t suffer due to INEOS debt is wearing Radcliffe tinted lenses.
More wilful blindness in my opinion, there's no way anyone doesn't know where Qatar's money comes from.
Sorry INEOS can't do what legally?
Spurs & Arsenal both can & will afford it, as would many others.
No none Sheikh owed club could do it otherwise.
We are one injury away from the season going drastically wrong, City are having a terrible season by their standards and that’s before mentioning Liverpool and Chelsea.
We drew in the europa league with a Barcelona that are far far away from the team they used to be, let’s be realistic here.
The stadium is in tatters, the concourse looks like a public swimming baths, cramped and dangerous access in and out for todays standards.
If by compete you mean we can regularly pick up a top 4 places until Liverpool are bought up by the next baron then sure. You can point to Liverpool beating city to the league as proof it can be done but just look at what level they had to play at just to get a single league title.
Actually, I’d argue it’s the opposite. If Ratcliffe was some foreign businessman he’d be getting scrutinised more. His time at Nice, including letting a friend become director of football. The debt, his history of broken promises, the fine for polluting a town, and the allegations against him and his company for bribery.
The stadium set Arsenal back years if not decades and had to sell a top player each year to stay afloat.
Is that your definition of affording?
I’m happy Spurs and Arsenal could afford it, don’t know what the point is. Not even sure FFP was a thing when the Emirates was built.
Were they servicing massive debts and a leveraged takeover as well?
Put the purchasing debt on United’s name. Wasn’t that made illegal after the glazers ?
It's just you view. I've not seen any evidence of qatar state running QIB.
Not sure you make a good point here, and pretty sure the debate last night has you wrong.
Buying a stadium/infrastructure is for the next 50 years, and helps to generate profits. Buying players… well…
Yeah, to somewhat, I have to agree with you.
Personally, I wanted whoever was going to be best for us. Initially I was up for SJR taking over us, back in August, etc. However, having compared the two statements, and my understanding of how the ownerships would look like, I do favour the Qatar bid.
I think the Jim O'Neil that has been shared above, that Andy Mitten has done, would probably best describe my feelings on this all. I just want the best for my club. Politics is such a dirty game, that I've personally known, who have lost their lives to it. For better, or worse, I just like to keep away from it and concentrate on the best for my club.
Is there a timeline for when we'll hear about next steps? I'm assuming there is a hard deadline after the soft deadline?
LBO is indeed banned by the PL, but in practice there's nothing to stop a new buyer from using the club's revenue on servicing that debt. You are just not allowed to make the club pay for it in case you turn tail and run is all.
But he isn't so that's a moot point.
My point was if he was the only alternative to the Glazers then there would be little or no objections amongst United fans to him taking over.
when did that happen?
Apparently, a private individual cannot be rich in Qatar without the rulers.
But its fine if the big American investors come in who sponsor electoral campaigns.
People with sense.
No I don't think the PL have ratified those rules yet. But regardless even if it was legal it wouldn't make sense to make a subsidiary company liable for billions worth of debt that it could never hope to service.
It arguably doesn't even make sense to make it liable for any of that debt if your goal is to grow the company as an asset and have it increase in value.
Turned out you are right! It was discussed last August as part of football reforms by FA and the PL, but has not been formalized yet.
No wonder we heard some NA investors are so keen.
But you have to be able to afford it. Putting it under ffp ensures a club can afford it. Nobody is saying it isn’t a bad idea to improve infrastructure?
How you’re arguing against this is beyond me.
Didn't realise it was that high - that's quite grim.
Any surveys done from the whole population of fans, rather than just those online? There's presumably a big bias there (Twitter is generally a disaster where fans only want to one-up fans of other clubs, so I can see them especially just wanting money without any further thought)
Yeah I was looking for evidence this went through the other day but couldn't find anything.
There's a poll running on the Cafe. In favour of Qatar. At the end of the day, all fans do have a choice to impact the ownership of the club. A few choices in fact.
Yea I'm sure that the bid lead by the cousin of the Emir of Qatar and son of the former Prime Minister of Qatar, funded by the QIB who's largest shareholder is the QIA. Is in no way linked to the Qatari state.
Well then we’re back to the original point, clearly a club like Manchester United can afford it if run well and not servicing debt to the tune of almost a billion.
A lot of posters who were at the game said Qatar is popular among the “real” fans too, it’s just simply the best option.
1) £5b is 5% of qatars gdp. In a country that is an absolute monarchy, a purchase of a foreign entity for that size of the country’s output is never, ever, not going to be state sanctioned.
2) where is an equivalent of 5% of US gdp bid? There isn’t one. Terrible false equivalence.
3) where even has anyone said it’s fine if American investors come in? From everyone I’ve seen, nobody wants that.
this whataboutism is a joke.
The state doesn't run QIB. It's just a minority stakeholder. That's the entire point. The vehicle is 'clean' and Tamim and HBJ aren't besties, so plausible deniability between the son and the Emir.
Big difference between proving it isn't and claiming that this isn't a state purchase though. It's clear as day it is.
Heaven forbid they get any grant funding.
If you read one of my posts you'll know I'm aware QIA was reported to own 16.7% of QIB, that ownership goes back many years and is across the sector. If you spent some time reading the governance statement you'll know there is zero evidence of QIA involvement in managing QIB.
Yea I'm sure that the bid lead by the cousin of the Emir of Qatar and son of the former Prime Minister of Qatar, funded by the QIB who's largest shareholder is the QIA. Is in no way linked to the Qatari state.
You're grasping at straws
If that's true (I haven't checked the shares they hold) then that's good to go under UEFA rules. Absolutely nothing they can do to prevent it. As clear a difference between PSG's owners and our bidders as you will get legally
Out pops another conspiracy theorist
Aint gonna happen with Jimmy loading up on the debt to buy then is it now.
I've no doubt it's the most popular bid. It's the only viable option currently presented that doesn''t trigger our glazer induced PTSD. I'm sure if Lukas Walton suddenly revealed he was buying us and was a forever fan, he'd immediately be the fans favourite. We just want the lesser of all evils.
I love all these people using "whatabotism" to have a go at people who want Qatari owners.
Regardless of getting state sanctions, the money is not state money, its individual money.
When City, Newcastle, PSG got bought, it was a group, this is a bid from Al Thani. Not a group. I hope you can understand the difference instead of just citing "whataboutism"
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