Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?


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I’m sure he is; our midfielders are shite. But as I’ve asked above, when do you draw the line and move elsewhere?
When there’s zero chance of it happening. In the long run, it’s better to wait for de Jong and potentially have him rather than cut it off whilst there’s still a chance and sign a lesser player. Not only a lesser player, but someone who won’t bring what ten Hag wants outside of Verratti and Arthur who aren’t the alternatives.
 
2 games at CB is quite the insult. If it happens again in their next game in Wednesday, I would expect words to be had. At some point Frenkie himself has to end this farce. Surely a negotiated settlement can be found.

It's not really an insult, he has done it in the past for Ajax and Barcelona.
 
It seems to be a pattern. Telles got played at CB too and is apparently dispensable. I guess managers are using CB as a way to tell a player it’s time to move on. :lol:
Telles is being used as a left footed place holder until we can get Martinez into the team. I suspect Fred was the same in midfield yesterday holding for FDJ so we could trial Donny at 8 and Bruno at 10. ETH is set on playing a certain way and will train it even without the players he wants. Not so weak as Ralf!
 
Yup it’s gone to hell in a handcart in here, the place has flooded with noobs and doomers. I think it could well be this week - wasn’t a La liga deadline of some sort reported for the 30th? We could see movement soon, especially off the back of Xavis statement.
As for people being rational in here, by and large you’ve got two hopes; no hope or Bob Hope variety.
The thing is, as i've said millions of times now (or at least it feels that way), we're only getting what the media are telling us, and most of it is coming from Barca, painting a narrative that they want us to hear. Even United complained that what Barca tell the media and what they tell United themselves is two different things, leading them to question whats real and whats not.

United, ten Hag, de Jong and Barca know exactly whats going on and how far things are in the transfer. If at any point anything changes with any of those parties, we'd know and we'd move on to an inevitable, yet less ideal, replacement. Why people think ten Hag is just blagging his way through this transfer with no assurances is truly beyond me. It's just insane to think that we'd waste so much time and effort doing all this if we weren't sure de Jong wanted to play for us
 
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Shall we migrate the “longest numbers in a row thread” to here to get us to 1000 pages as quick as possible…
 
I understand that much of this is genuinely out of the hands of the club, but at what point do we call this a day and bring in another player instead? I think the time might be now. We can’t afford a full season with our current options.
We don’t, I think. It’s De Jong or no midfielder this year.
 
It's not really an insult, he has done it in the past for Ajax and Barcelona.
Yes but Xavi is suggesting that will be his role full time, considering its already as a substitute and they're signing Kounde the writing is on the wall.
 
No. It's not.

The club have wasted a unprecedented amount of money buying players that weren't the right fit for the club or team.
Yes, it's impossible to get every singing right but the % of fail to success ration falls heavily on the side of fail.
Just going through some of the players we've bought should be enough to make fans sit back and wait for the right signing over "any" signing.
Romelu Lukaku £76m
Paul Pogba £89m
Morgan Schneiderlin £32m
Angel Di Maria £68m
Wan Bisaka £50m
Henrikh Mkhitaryan £38m
Alex Telles £14m
Alexis Sanchez (swap but extortionate wages)
Memphis Depay £31m

I could add so many more to the list.
We have to start buying the right player, we definitely have to stop buying a player because the fans demand a signing.
If ten Hag feels that the roght type of isnt player avaliable to improve the team then the right decision is to wait.
You are surely right, our recruiting wasn't something to be proud of but I disagree, that those players failed "because they weren't the right fit for the club". I'd say all of the names you mentioned made sense at the time. The really weird fits have been in the Moyes era. Of course many of the names you mentioned are now regarded as failures, but for very different reasons. Di Maria didn't want to come to us, any resemblance of a current situation, anyone? No. Alright, next... Schneiderlin came from a great season but imploded, Pogba was an awesome prospect, exactly what was needed to match Citys Toure back then. Lukaku was prefered over Morata for the same prices, Telles made sense as Shaw seemed to lack competition, AWB had a very successful season and we were in dire need of a RB. Depay was an up and coming young player, many thought, ne may have a stellar carreer and even Sanchez played really well for Arsenal.

It is easy to look at all of them as failures now 10 years later. But they made some sense at the time - the issue weren't the players all this time, it was us as a club not having a plan how we want to play and then bring in players fitting that plan.

And even if we accept, that we have to change things in terms of recruitment (and of course we do) it still doesn't necessarily mean we should get deeply involved in such a mess like the one with FDJ and Barcelona. At least not to a degree, where it risks our own ambitions. And that is still in the cards.


Disagree. We made it clear Frenkie is the priority and focused on agreeing a fee for him with Barca before taking the remaining budget and moving onto other signings (Eriksen/Martinez/Malacia) and I do not believe we are done yet. We will see a deal for a forward (possibly Antony) and possibly a RB. It’s already been stated outgoings will be tackled towards the end of the window. Seems like a structured plan of priorities to me.
I see where you are coming from and yes, if some players for the right side of attack and defense are brought in, then I would also change my evaluation of the window. But from what I know, there aren't many real indicators, aren't they? Ajax seems adamant to not let go more of their 1st teamers and I didn't remember any RB talk. And even if those players would join, we still haven't adressed the most pressing issue, the midfield. And again, I can see the point in staying adamant for the 1st choice player, but don't risk missing out completely. A DM would be a great addition to the squad. No matter of FDJ comes or not. Doesn't have to be top shelf, doesn't even have to be one with ambitions for the first eleven. This kind of business has to be done, and it should be done right now.

Don't get me wrong, I like who we bought, Malacia is cheap and has potential, good deal. Martinez seems to be a great character and will be very helpful for ETHs idea of football and Eriksen will provide backup to Bruno. But I can't give the recruitment team very good grades for it, free agent, cheap punt, 2nd choice CB. That isn't the hallmark of a great recruitment effort. At least not only those players.

In the age where almost every player half decent makes a scene when something doesnt go his way, its funny how Frenkie who is among top CMs in the world lets Barca to insult him like this. CB? with World Cup coming soon? either he's very naive or has a very shitty agent working for him if he would rather wait and beg like an unwanted, disrespected employee for 17m instead if prioritizing his career & development as a footballer (still has at least a decade which renders 17m very small) and 2022 World Cup. Was their own fault to agree to the new contract to begin with. I think yeah he has a shitty agent. Barca pulled your pants down, now move on. CLASS AND DIGNITY.
I agree with you, but one thought crossed my mind. I think, it isn't as "bad" to play a player with FDJs skillset in the center of defence. I think, the game evolves and CBs like Ramos, Hummels, Boateng, Rudiger, Pau Torres and many more show, that the ability to create from deep is slowly moving to this place of the pitch. And who knows, maybe in 5 years time, players like Pogba or Kroos will be playing CB most of the time while the midfield will be packed with all-action-players who aren't in need of too much time and space to do their magic.
 
It's not really an insult, he has done it in the past for Ajax and Barcelona.
Different context. One is ‘Frenkie, I have a crisis I need you to fill I for me and do a job at CB, I believe in you’ the other is ‘oh yes I forgot about you, just go to the back and don’t feck it up’. It’s absolutely a show of being unwanted anymore.
 
We don’t, I think. It’s De Jong or no midfielder this year.
Probably. Hence ten Hag’s comments about central midfield, and how if the right person isn’t available we’ll develop our own.
 
Backup CB when they already have Araujo, Garcia, Christensen and are actively trying to sign Kounde.
Surely the hidden message here is "Go to Manchester United so we can sign Kounde or you will be playing CB"
 
In the age where almost every player half decent makes a scene when something doesnt go his way, its funny how Frenkie who is among top CMs in the world lets Barca to insult him like this. CB? with World Cup coming soon? either he's very naive or has a very shitty agent working for him if he would rather wait and beg like an unwanted, disrespected employee for 17m instead if prioritizing his career & development as a footballer (still has at least a decade which renders 17m very small) and 2022 World Cup. Was their own fault to agree to the new contract to begin with. I think yeah he has a shitty agent. Barca pulled your pants down, now move on. CLASS AND DIGNITY.

Not very dignified to let some chancer dupe you out of €17m they owed you though, is it?

If Barca truly need the transfer fee and to get Frenkie's future wages off the books then all of the pressure is on them.
 
Ultimately if Barcelona don't give him the 17m and he stays he'll get the 17m, and they have a player they don't need and no fee... So they will fold eventually, they're just hoping either Frenkie or United will first. Hopefully they both have balls and wait Barcelona out. Waiting won't be the end of the world despite what some here would like to make out.
 
Yes but Xavi is suggesting that will be his role full time, considering its already as a substitute and they're signing Kounde the writing is on the wall.

Of course the writing is on the wall but calling it an insult is a gross exaggeration.
 
Yes but Xavi is suggesting that will be his role full time, considering its already as a substitute and they're signing Kounde the writing is on the wall.

Exactly. We know he's played CB before but these are different circumstances. And the insult is in Xavi's statement. Knowing Frenkie already feels he's not being optimally utilised in his favoured midfield role.
 
Yeah, cos the classy and dignified thing would be to moan to the press, refuse to play (meaning he gets fined), and go golfing until he's sold.
Nope. It is to leave immediately given that he has a standby buyer with a manager that understands him really well. He can't risk it, it's a world cup year. 17m is a dwarf compared to him losing his own reputation and a spot in the world cup. Also makes him look like an even bigger idiot each day. Barca obviously doesn't want to pay and everyone knows they have problems with money, they paint Frenkie as someone unwanted and a nuisance at the club and it's getting worse every week. They are scummy, does Frenkie seriously think given enough time they will succumb to his demands without something negative as a "payback"? let's say that by some miracle they end up paying the money, I bet they wouldn't shut up about it and will make Frenkie as a bad example. We're talking about "more than a club" here, always on their high horse. Club and fans alike. Only a matter of time until Barca fans want him out if this narrative goes on, the manager has clearly stated he is unwanted.
 
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Correct. The plug doesn’t get pulled until the windows closed, if we’re being honest
I don't think ten Hag will give up at all to be fair. I also don't think Barca will want him there come the end of the window, so at some point, a compromise will be made and he will definitely leave
 
It can't be anymore obvious that he will leave. Both him and barca want the seperation, but barca don't want to pay him off and he won't leave with nothing.

xavi's comments literally just a slap in the face and a boot in the arse to usher him out.
 
It can't be anymore obvious that he will leave. Both him and barca want the seperation, but barca don't want to pay him off and he won't leave with nothing.

xavi's comments literally just a slap in the face and a boot in the arse to usher him out.

So expect another few weeks of a stand off
 
I am 100% certain Frankie is coming. Probably going to fire his agent for being incompetent though.

If not this window, definitely the next.
 
I am 100% certain Frankie is coming. Probably going to fire his agent for being incompetent though.
I truly believe he's coming, 110%. I think it'll be sooner rather than later too, as Barca will want to get someone else in won't they
 
As long as there’s a chance, we wait. Frenkie is vital. The most important cog in the machine that ten Hag is building.

A) This is a very passive stance, as if we are scared to make a mistake we rather stand still in the hope that somebody else moves. I understand that, but it isn't very proactive. Which I think makes for good leadership. And it isn't like being passive doesn't come with a cost itself. Our season preparation is impacted, alternatives may get more expensive, the time to act is reduced.

B) if the player is as vital as you say (I hope he isn't because then we're one injury away from being fecked over again) then why aren't we forcing things? There is talk about 17 million. I remember seeing an article that stated, that Barca is ready to give him 3-4 million. Thats 14 million, ask FDJ to give away 2, add 6 million to his wage package for the full contract time of 3 or 4 years, give him 3 million sign off bonus and give him 3 million in achievable performance based boni. If he isn't ready to lose 2 million, increase his loyality bonus. Done dealio. Lets not act as if our hands are tied so we are forced to wait. Thats not the case.

And if a club has nothing to lose in terms of recruitment reputation, it is us. I don't even think, it will damage our reputation, we show determination and intent by just breaking a barrier. If needed put Barca on the "no future deals" list later and avoid them forever but lets be pragmatic now if the player is that important (I consider that as a very unhealthy relation to a single player but seeing so many people clinging on him, then fine, lets not step away but lets not just wait)
 
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