Who should be cancelled on the caf?
Cancel Culture
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
Anyone that says something like "I'm left wing buuuut..."
Yeah fair enough, but I'm definitely not one of em. There's a certain finality (not sure thats a word) of publically shaming someone online and at times people don't wait for any context before proceeding to ruin someone's life. I'm sure 90% deserve it, but it's a damn shame for the other 10%.
These people rarely even talk about left wing politics in a positive way. They are only left wing after a lengthy exchange where they have been 100% right wing.
You are right it is tough to criticize certain aspects of cancel or call-out culture because if you are not all for it then you get painted by some with the same brush as the idiots who don't understand it yet rail against it anyway. Either that or right wing, racist, insulted etc.
Which obviously deters a lot of reasonable people from speaking out against the nastier unnecessary parts of it that do go too far.
Yeah, I wasn't meaning to imply I thought you were one of those
Yep.
"I'm totally left wing believe me but... SJWs... black on black crime.... Little Britain made fun of everybody!!!... blackface is just a fun costume... Candace Owens...
PS: All Lives Matter"
it's astonishing how how many people who will never have a platform outside niche forums and social media give a feck about glorified bloggers and overpaid TV presenters having to take less prestigious gigs where they're allowed to be even more racist
I'll assume this is a go at me, seeing as I'm not sure this is really a thing that anybody says outside of what I've posted in the thread.
Why I've said that should be fairly obvious. Everybody is so quick to see any political issue in terms of 'teams' and cheering your lot on and feck everybody else because it must be good vs evil. It's just "Look, he's criticising one aspect of the left! Must be right wing, tory voting, England flag waving, royal family bothering, Daily Mail reading, brexiteer, racist, sexist, homophobic gammon! Better disregard everything he says!"
The reason I'm critical of this type of shit, along with the type of 'identity politics' I mentioned is exactly because I think it's all contributing towards pushing people to the right, the rise of populism, and the fecking crazy levels of political polarisation there are now.
Peter Shilton having a twitter account makes me feel strange
The way Peter Shilton writes his twitter posts reminds me of someone! Hard to say who!
I think this whole 'cancel culture has gone too far' idea almost solely exists as a faux outrage inducing gateway drug for people that think they're 'left', but are almost certainly 'right', to help them transition into just flat out hating the majority of societal changes the left back. It's so easily to even tell from regularly reading this forum who is going to back the OP in the blink of an eye 
. The video Olly linked earlier is very good also.
. The video Olly linked earlier is very good also.Only 37 posts in that Russian bots are invoked.
It wasn't a go at you tbf, it was a general point. I have seen it said quite a bit in the blackface and BLM thread a lot over the last week or two.
It's obviously fair enough to say you don't think someone's life should be ruined because of a joke or something, I myself disagree with some things and I imagine most people do, but 99% of the time I see someone say that sort of thing, it's them exagerrating the negative in order to just group the "left" together. Why do these negative push people to the right, but you never hear the opposite said? It's always a one sided problem.
There are far, far more right wing Youtubers/political "commentators" radicalizing people than there are left wing people making the same kind of videos for example, but nobody ever makes threads or conversations about them, saying how they're pushing people to the left, it's always "this Tweet with seven likes sums up the problem with liberals".
What if we, cancelled...culture?
Discuss
1500 words
Discuss
1500 words
Absolutely there are, and in no way do I think is close to the biggest issue in that equation by any stretch. The rise of 'fake news' and a lot of people (especially above a certain age) apparently having zero critical thinking skill and just accepting what they see at face value is a much, much bigger problem with that, along with the stranglehold the right has on the press (which I think is still more relevant than people like to reckon). I just think this is a lot of counterproductive barking up the wrong tree.
Yeah mate. I'm an anti-capitalist, anti-nationalist, pro-union, pro-immigration, republican remainer. Just waiting for the tory party to get my membership forms.
Yeah mate. I'm an anti-capitalist, anti-nationalist, pro-union, pro-immigration, republican remainer. Just waiting for the tory party to get my membership forms.
It's a slippery slope buddy, you'll be signing up in 15 years or so
. You're falling hook, line, and sinker for a right wing play to elevate the perceived problem of 'cancel culture', which is designed to make people want to fight against societal change that will negatively impact their politics.Also, the point you made above about 'pushing people to the right' is nonsense, anyone that claims to have been liberal(or whatever you want to call it) until this supposed 'cancel culture' crisis drove them away is talking absolute crap. If people don't have the critical thinking skills to recognise that for every 'cancelled' person(as mentioned in the video earlier in this thread, when does this actually really happen?), literally thousands of people are impacted by conservative societal policies, or the general societal issues related to whatever incident the 'cancelled' person was involved with, then they are complete and utter morons, and were literally never left of centre(because they clearly have no clue about anything the left represents). I don't understand how any of you that seem to be intelligent, and claim to be 'left' can't see how complaining about stuff like this, instead of complaining about actual large scale issues makes you appear.
It's a slippery slope buddy, you'll be signing up in 15 years or so
Also, the point you made above about 'pushing people to the right' is nonsense, anyone that claims to have been liberal(or whatever you want to call it) until this supposed 'cancel culture' crisis drove them away is talking absolute crap. If people don't have the critical thinking skills to recognise that for every 'cancelled' person(as mentioned in the video earlier in this thread, when does this actually really happen?), literally thousands of people are impacted by conservative societal policies, or the general societal issues related to whatever incident the 'cancelled' person was involved with, then they are complete and utter morons, and were literally never left of centre(because they clearly have no clue about anything the left represents). I don't understand how any of you that seem to be intelligent, and claim to be 'left' can't see how complaining about stuff like this, instead of complaining about actual large scale issues makes you appear.
I don't think anybody who spends a lot of time thinking about politics or morality and is already firmly on one side of the spectrum is going to be pushed to the other by this or by much else. However, I do think that a majority of people just aren't that politically conscious at all and can be moved to vote for one lot or the other depending on whose story they like better.
It's not cancel culture itself that's the problem I'm describing, though it is definitely symptomatic of it. It's the strong over-emphasis on tag/label based identity politics. Over the last few years, the way the left views the world has been shaped into an oppression vs. privilege dichotomy based wholly on your tags/labels and the sanctity of them. People are viewed largely as the sum of these labels and your privilege/oppression score becomes how much society should care about you.
The story from the left used to be "If your life is shit, it's not your fault mate. You're being exploited by the rich and they've pulled the fecking ladder up behind them." If you're a straight white bloke the implied story from the left now is "Well, actually mate, you won the demographic lottery! You're privileged. If your life is shit, it's your own fecking fault." If you're from a poor single parent council estate home and you haven't got a pot to piss in, you probably don't feel very fecking privileged. At that point, the "It's them forrins" bollocks spouted by the right becomes a much more appealing story.
Discrimination in all its forms is fecking abhorrent, but the way to fight it isn't to keep score of all the possible ways that somebody could be discriminated against and attack anybody who didn't sufficiently walk on eggshells around somebody else's labels. That only emphasises the differences between people. It's doing the job of the right for them. When it gets to some of the ridiculous lengths where the idea of somebody being offended is seen as bad as actual violence or the obvious economic and social injustices these groups DO suffer, it trivialises the important shit. It needs instead to be Pauli Murray's "When my brothers try to draw a circle to exclude me, I shall draw a larger circle to include them".
You make a lot sense - Be careful around these parts....
This is a thread about cancel culture. You have a tendency to drop into threads and produce snarky comments about right wing politics everywhere you go. Can you... not?
It's a slippery slope buddy, you'll be signing up in 15 years or so
Also, the point you made above about 'pushing people to the right' is nonsense, anyone that claims to have been liberal(or whatever you want to call it) until this supposed 'cancel culture' crisis drove them away is talking absolute crap. If people don't have the critical thinking skills to recognise that for every 'cancelled' person(as mentioned in the video earlier in this thread, when does this actually really happen?), literally thousands of people are impacted by conservative societal policies, or the general societal issues related to whatever incident the 'cancelled' person was involved with, then they are complete and utter morons, and were literally never left of centre(because they clearly have no clue about anything the left represents). I don't understand how any of you that seem to be intelligent, and claim to be 'left' can't see how complaining about stuff like this, instead of complaining about actual large scale issues makes you appear.
Well having the odd moan about a smaller trivial issue like cancel culture doesn't preclude someone from complaining about the larger issues that face society also.
And surely it should make a person doing so appear like they have a functioning brain and can form their own opinions on separate issues instead of just deferring to the current groupthink on every issue.
I don't disagree with large parts of what you've said, I suppose I'm speaking more from a ideals standpoint than your practical, voting one. I think those poor white people need to be able to understand what privilege means in this context, and how it's not aimed as an insult towards them. I've no doubt it's easier for me as a middle class white person to objectively view the discussion of white privilege than someone who has had a very tough life, but I know plenty of people in those situations who have managed to grasp it. Most people are just lazy and want the easiest answer for their woes, and will fight any attempt to have it explained to them in a different light.
Well said.
I think he had written a book on it as well, although I haven't read it. It's well worth a watch. Generally I'd say that those outrage campaigns, while often started on the back of a really offensive/racist/whatever point, somehow get all of its members a permanent indulgence, which shouldn't happen. The cancellation process is just a continuation of this, and at some point you have to weight in how bad was the original offence compared to how strong was the public reaction.
I don't have many problems with House of Cards kicking out Spacey, for example.
I don't have many problems with House of Cards kicking out Spacey, for example.
Let me give you good folks an example. Living in the third world, in a country that’s not predominantly white, this isn’t something as prevalent as you would see in other places, but the protests have brought some of this to the fore.
The owner (White woman) of a very popular tea shop that people love to visit, posted a photo, from the tea shop’s page, captioned “All lives matter”, which ended up rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. At first she apologized and said that she didn’t know what the all lives matter caption represented. When people posted screenshots of her commenting a lot of pro trump stuff all over the place, including posts related to this, which showed that she did in fact know exactly the meaning those words were attached to, she then doubled down and said “I wasn’t the one that posted that photo, it was one of my employees, a black female that posted it.” It's almost a parody that after all that, her final response is to try to throw a black employee under the bus. Widespread talk from everyone that we’re all going to boycott this place.
In response to this, the owner of a large pharmacy, again quite popular, posted this on Facebook.
Again, people are outraged, and call for boycotts of this business.
Now based on the running theme of this thread, can any of you so vehemently opposed to 'cancel culture' as you call it, read this and think that people are wrong in calling for businesses operated by these people to be boycotted? Personally, I don't lose any sleep over people like this potentially having their businesses ruined.
Edit: I attempted to spoiler the image as it's quite large, but failed. If any good folks can assist it would be appreciated, but this photo needs to be seen.
The owner (White woman) of a very popular tea shop that people love to visit, posted a photo, from the tea shop’s page, captioned “All lives matter”, which ended up rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. At first she apologized and said that she didn’t know what the all lives matter caption represented. When people posted screenshots of her commenting a lot of pro trump stuff all over the place, including posts related to this, which showed that she did in fact know exactly the meaning those words were attached to, she then doubled down and said “I wasn’t the one that posted that photo, it was one of my employees, a black female that posted it.” It's almost a parody that after all that, her final response is to try to throw a black employee under the bus. Widespread talk from everyone that we’re all going to boycott this place.
In response to this, the owner of a large pharmacy, again quite popular, posted this on Facebook.
Again, people are outraged, and call for boycotts of this business.
Now based on the running theme of this thread, can any of you so vehemently opposed to 'cancel culture' as you call it, read this and think that people are wrong in calling for businesses operated by these people to be boycotted? Personally, I don't lose any sleep over people like this potentially having their businesses ruined.
Edit: I attempted to spoiler the image as it's quite large, but failed. If any good folks can assist it would be appreciated, but this photo needs to be seen.
Great Post here. I agree with alot of what you have said here.
Let me give you good folks an example. Living in the third world, in a country that’s not predominantly white, this isn’t something as prevalent as you would see in other places, but the protests have brought some of this to the fore.
The owner (White woman) of a very popular tea shop that people love to visit, posted a photo, from the tea shop’s page, captioned “All lives matter”, which ended up rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. At first she apologized and said that she didn’t know what the all lives matter caption represented. When people posted screenshots of her commenting a lot of pro trump stuff all over the place, including posts related to this, which showed that she did in fact know exactly the meaning those words were attached to, she then doubled down and said “I wasn’t the one that posted that photo, it was one of my employees, a black female that posted it.” It's almost a parody that after all that, her final response is to try to throw a black employee under the bus. Widespread talk from everyone that we’re all going to boycott this place.
In response to this, the owner of a large pharmacy, again quite popular, posted this on Facebook.
Again, people are outraged, and call for boycotts of this business.
Now based on the running theme of this thread, can any of you so vehemently opposed to 'cancel culture' as you call it, read this and think that people are wrong in calling for businesses operated by these people to be boycotted? Personally, I don't lose any sleep over people like this potentially having their businesses ruined.
Edit: I attempted to spoiler the image as it's quite large, but failed. If any good folks can assist it would be appreciated, but this photo needs to be seen.
"Sort it out amongst yourselves, but please keep shopping here".
Fantastic post!
I can't believe you're trying to cancel me.
I mentioned right wing politics because it usually talked about by right wing people (or people that just happen to like talking about a lot of right wing viewpoints and buzzwords), or said that it's one of the things causing people to turn right wing, and it gets a bit tiring going over these kind of things over and over and over again.
I apologize if I offended you.
Its hypocrisy. People moaning about being offended, so they write in forums or on social media, using a smartphone where the battery for it was probably mined by a six year old in africa. Their wearing clothing that was probably made in a sweatshop by child labourers.
Thier main concern is something on TV is offensive. I'm sick of the I'm holier than you bollocks, when they turn a blind eye to everything else that's going on around them.
Thier main concern is something on TV is offensive. I'm sick of the I'm holier than you bollocks, when they turn a blind eye to everything else that's going on around them.
Exactly. People should just stop giving a feck about anything.
That is bloody awful. People are so quick to judge others and say hurtful stuff without even thinking about it or caring at all about the impact it has on people.
Sorry too temping, I'm out.
I was just about to post this image before seeing that you did. That line of reasoning is probably the worst thing kicking around
"Everyone and everything is crap, so why should anyone care about any one specific thing"I was just about to post this image before seeing that you did. That line of reasoning is probably the worst thing kicking around
I know right, nothing would have ever got done if we had that attitude or mindset.It's tragic and yes people need to realise that their actions can have lasting consequences.
Great post, there’s a poster in here you mentioned in another thread as being a serial offender with this sort of posting and they did exactly that to to me in another thread.
Empathy for what exactly?
Not a fan of any of them. Shame Bear got booted off so soon.
Good post, well said