The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[amolbhatia50k]

Should our managers target low rated players who don't cost much then ?

Eh? No. When the guy responsible for footballing decisions asks for a player he should bear the joint responsibility for the club spending the necessary amount to get him his man. Let's not pretend Matic from Chelsea was going to be cheap. Or a big name like Sanchez was going to be on average wages. Or a highly regarded Fred was going to be reasonably priced. Or Lukaku was going to be priced at 40 million. Or Mkhitarian was going to cost 10 million.

The world works a certain way. Now we can hold Ed responsible for letting Mourinho sign many duds and making daft mistakes in generally going overboard in some cased whether it be transfers or wages. But it cannot be ALL on him. Mourinho cannot hide from his responsibility in picking these players, failing to improve them and indeed their cost as well.

In fact no manager is ever absolved from this responsibility. Its only United fans and Mourinho where suddenly people are desparate to absolve the manager of responsibility at every given chance. By all means let's them share the responsibility for the fees/cost Mourinho can't escape it.

 

[PepsiCola]

People bring up City's spending a lot.

How much more have Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton spent?

 

[Treble]

People bring up City's spending a lot.

How much more have Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton spent?

TRANSFER SPEND SINCE 2014-15 (gross)

CLUB AMOUNT

Man City £809m
Man United £736m
Chelsea £683m
Liverpool £636m
Arsenal £486m
Everton £430
Tottenham £292

 

[haram]

Did Juventus? Did Chelsea, Did PSG? Did Real Mardid, did Barca? Stop comparing us to one team just to fit a narrative.

Teams like Juve, Real and PSG already had quality defenders what are you talking about . Chelsea have achieved nothing yet either, when they played us it was even, we should have won in fact.

 

[JPRouve]

Eh? No. When the guy responsible for footballing decisions asks for a player he should bear the joint responsibility for the club spending the necessary amount to get him his man. Let's not pretend Matic from Chelsea was going to be cheap. Or a big name like Sanchez was going to be on average wages. Or a highly regarded Fred was going to be reasonably priced. Or Lukaku was going to be priced at 40 million. Or Mkhitarian was going to cost 10 million.

The world works a certain way. Now we can hold Ed responsible for letting Mourinho sign many duds and making daft mistakes in generally going overboard in some cased whether it be transfers or wages. But it cannot be ALL on him. Mourinho cannot hide from his responsibility in picking these players, failing to improve them and indeed their cost as well.

In fact no manager is ever absolved from this responsibility. Its only United fans and Mourinho where suddenly people are desparate to absolve the manager of responsibility at every given chance. By all means let's them share the responsibility for the fees/cost Mourinho can't escape it.

Interestingly this is why the use of DOF is obvious.

The manager asks for a profile, the CEO creates a budget and the DOF reconcile both by finding players that are as close to the profile and the budget as possible. The alternative is a situation where the manager isn't bothered by the budget but ask for a specific player while the CEO who doesn't have an extensive grasp of football can't offer appropriate alternatives that meet the profile. In the end both sides have a point when they blame the manager or the CEO but neither side can actually offer a solution with that setup.

 

[JPRouve]

TRANSFER SPEND SINCE 2014-15 (gross)

CLUB AMOUNT

Man City £809m
Man United £736m
Chelsea £683m
Liverpool £636m
Arsenal £486m
Everton £430
Tottenham £292

Basically a difference equivalent to Bony and Otamendi.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Agree but I'm not saying he should have got Lukaku at lower price. What I'm saying is Ed wasn't forced to pay for Lukaku. He agreed with Mourinho on that transfer, and disagreed with him on Perisic, so he bought Lukaku and vetoed Perisic. It's ultimately up to Ed to choose to spend the money or not and on whom. That's his job.

That's because Inter Milan wanted Martial in exchange for Perisic.

Jose would have been delighted to get rid of martial for him but Woodward and 70.8% of the fans would never allow such a thing.

Jose wanted martial gone & replaced long before he even got the job. Tried to do it with the homegrown Rashford, tried to do it by changing it for perisic, tried doing it by changing for Sanchez & unfortunately for him - martial has constantly come out on top.

 

[JK-27]

TRANSFER SPEND SINCE 2014-15 (gross)

CLUB AMOUNT

Man City £809m
Man United £736m
Chelsea £683m
Liverpool £636m
Arsenal £486m
Everton £430
Tottenham £292

The amount spent is an indicator of investment, but not of quality. You can pay a lot but it doesn't mean quality. We've spent money on poor quality players during the last 4-5 seasons who are no longer at the club (Di Maria, Depay, Blind, Schneiderlin for example) or barely play for the club (Rojo, Darmian). That's nearly £200 million wasted right there.

 

[Foxbatt]

Spot on Alyosius. Anyway Perisic is going to be 30 and Inter wants Martial. No way should Martial should be sold to get Perisic. Perisic is a short term fix and is not even a fix because the problems we have is not at left wing but a central midfield player to replace Matic and a striker to replace Lukaku.
I do not think our central defence is such a big problem as Jose tries to make it. The central defenders are playing without any cover from the midfield because Matic has been so poor for such a long time.
I think it is time Woodward get a set of balls and show Jose the way out.

 

[VP89]

So!

Does't excuse us from playing crap football and having a spine on Smalling, Jones, Matic and Fellaini in our last game against a team as good as Norwich City.

Stop changing your argument. We know we have shite football but your stance that our manager (or any manager) can just match Pep in the transfer market is ridiculous.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

with hindsight the Sanchez deal was a crazy deal

at the time though I'd say 90% on here were delighted. Martial was in great form and I thought we'd added brilliant balance to our right wing. I couldn't believe it when Mourinho dumped Martial and that signing has really hurt us. It signalled the end of our season in many ways as we never played well with any consistency after it even to today.

What impact has those ridiculous wages had on Pogba or De Gea? had you said in January we'd be paying Sanchez the figures being mentioned I would have said no - I thought he'd get a Rooney style deal (200k plus bonuses).

And this is why Woodward does not fully back Jose anymore - because 2/3rds in to a relatively good 2nd season Woodward saw that Sanchez was used to drop martial out of the squad than address an underlying weakness - ie the RW or simply change the formation to accommodate all of our best players on paper.

The funniest thing that Jose did was dropping in form martial for Sanchez because the latter is more in line with being his type of player - only to be disappointed as Sanchez fails in his first couple of games at LW. The fans and the public start questioning why martial was dropped in form for Sanchez who easily could have played RW - and what does Jose do? Plays martial one game on the RW afterwards - uses his absolute terrible performance as a way of showing that Martial is off form & can't adapt. After that martial is hardly ever seen and Sanchez is given a free run in the first team all the way until the fans & the public give up on him & question his starting.

Martial comes in & Sanchez is hardly seen.

Same stuff with Lukaku - only dropped when the public & the fans question him deeply enough - but never out for too long.

Jose uses his tactics, his formations & his players to address or highlight issues to the media, to Woodward & to the fans. That's all without talking about Herrera & mctomminay the CB.

 

[RooneyLegend]

IMO between Us, Chelsea, Bayern, PSG, Barca, Madrid and City no one can complain about money.

 

[Mainoldo]

Teams like Juve, Real and PSG already had quality defenders what are you talking about . Chelsea have achieved nothing yet either, when they played us it was even, we should have won in fact.

Chelsea are the previous champions within Mourinho’s reign. Had. They haven’t brought no one in years. My point is stop stating we need world class defenders to compete. City didn’t buy one world class defender to win the league.

 

[Mainoldo]

Stop changing your argument. We know we have shite football but your stance that our manager (or any manager) can just match Pep in the transfer market is ridiculous.

What does beating a man in a transfer battle have to do with winning then league. I’ve never been interested in winning the transfer season. Yet everyone brings it up. Let’s forgort Pep has improved players, lets forgot Peps team play wonderful football. It’s not all about him buying Kyle Walker. If that the case why didn’t Poch win the league he’s had the best defence for years.

 

[El Presidente]

When you come to think of it, even the first season wasn't all that good tbh.

We didn't get into CL for being one of the 4 best teams in the league, but by barely scraping wins for a 2nd tier European trophy against a much, much weaker opposition.

I am actually amazed and disappointed that some fans are considering his first season a success. Some people forget we were one shocking miss in the added time away from being eliminated by fecking Celta at OT, not to mention that Anderlecht took us to extra time. Oh yeah, we finished 6th, too. Great success.

I used to believe that he can turn it around. "This is Mourinho, after all", I used to tell myself. Not anymore. Not after Sevilla. And that was a long time ago and it's amazing that some still believe in him. Especially, when he has probably given up himself.

 

[VP89]

What does beating a man in a transfer battle have to do with winning then league. I’ve never been interested in winning the transfer season. Yet everyone brings it up. Let’s forgort Pep has improved players, lets forgot Peps team play wonderful football. It’s not all about him buying Kyle Walker. If that the case why didn’t Poch win the league he’s had the best defence for years.

Look at your original post I quoted you in.

You started harping on about how Pep was able to plug every hole in the side that needed transfers and Jose didn't. I just reminded you that no one can spend like Pep can. You then back tracked on how Pep didn't spend as much in different seasons, and when I showed the facts you changed the topic to a debate that's non existent.

 

[VP89]

I don't think Morata was ever our top target. Why Chelsea bought him I have no idea, I don't really pay attention to their transfer dealings.

So morata was never a top target. Morata says he turned us down. You believe Morata, even though you reckon he was never a top target.

See how it's inconsistent ?

 

[FrantikChicken]

So morata was never a top target. Morata says he turned us down. You believe Morata, even though you reckon he was never a top target.

See how it's inconsistent ?

What? Mate, firstly Morata is pretty irrelevant to this discussion. We managed to get ourselves one of our top 2 striker options. Go and read my initial post again.

I'm not saying Morata wasn't a top target, I am saying he wasn't our number 1 target. It's entirely possible we made offers for both him and Lukaku. I see no reason to not believe him when he says that we made an offer for him.

 

[VP89]

What? Mate, firstly Morata is pretty irrelevant to this discussion. We managed to get ourselves one of our top 2 striker options. Go and read my initial post again.

I'm not saying Morata wasn't a top target, I am saying he wasn't our number 1 target. It's entirely possible we made offers for both him and Lukaku. I see no reason to not believe him when he says that we made an offer for him.

Jesus. We didn't even reach a stage to discuss anything with Morata because Real were trying to get a large fee. We had Lukaku discussions ongoing on the side and swooped in for him.

Morata was then flogged to the only buyer (Chelsea) and had a vested interest in claiming it was always them. He said he turned us down so he can work with Conte

The way the transfers went down, it was obvious it wasn't that. So no, we cant always go by what players say every time.

 

[Johan07]

So Mourinho rejected Mourinho's targets in favour of a player like Varane? Woodward literally quoted a name of the defender he'd rather see.

What are you even talking about? Mourinho knows within which cost/wage budget he needs to stay. Its the largest in the PL btw. He or Woodward cant just magically land players on too big wages. Look what the Sanchez transfer did. If its anything that restricted Mourinho in the market this summer it was that deal. It took us well past even City in wages and of course Mourinho would be more restricted in the summer because of it.
This supposed conflict between the club ("Woodward") and Mourinho is made up by ABU media and its sad to see fans hitching a ride on that train.

 

[FrantikChicken]

Jesus. We didn't even reach a stage to discuss anything with Morata because Real were trying to get a large fee. We had Lukaku discussions ongoing on the side and swooped in for him.

Morata was then flogged to the only buyer (Chelsea) and had a vested interest in claiming it was always them. He said he turned us down so he can work with Conte

The way the transfers went down, it was obvious it wasn't that. So no, we cant always go by what players say every time.

Morata says we made an offer, he never says if he actually discussed anything with us. He never even says "I turned down Man Utd" He does say he spoke with Conte, yes.

EDIT: He also says there was interest from other leagues. Obviously you seem to know that is apparently not true though.

You need to read what is actually being said and rely less on your imagination.

There's absolutely zero evidence to suggest Lukaku was the "side piece". This is exactly the crap I'm talking about. People will take one sentence and then create a whole soap opera in their heads

 

[MataFanatic]

Would like to see United come out in January and say Mourinho will leave at the end of the season. Pay off his contract. He did have two decent seasons with us. Get Pochetino in!

 

[Mainoldo]

Look at your original post I quoted you in.

You started harping on about how Pep was able to plug every hole in the side that needed transfers and Jose didn't. I just reminded you that no one can spend like Pep can. You then back tracked on how Pep didn't spend as much in different seasons, and when I showed the facts you changed the topic to a debate that's non existent.

Did Pep spend £200m on Neymar. Did he spend £80m on Pogba and £90m on Lukaku. Clearly people can spend what Pep can. Those are also facts

 

[Johan07]

Why since Mourinho hired and not since LVG or Moyes ? I don't understand this logic. So according to your sentence he was getting into the way of both LVG and Moyes in getting their targets but not Mourinho ?

No, I dont think Woodward has ever interfered in the footballing decisions of this club other than to set the financial parameters of first and foremost our wagebill. The man is not stupid. He knows its not his field.
I am referring to the fact that Woodward has gradually stepped down from the practical involvement in transfer and salary negotiations for quite a while now and for the last two years now he is not even involved in such issues anymore. Something that eventually will end up in a DoF -role. Essentially it already exists though.
But media loves to make out a conflict between Woodward and Mourinho and its sad to see fans like you fall for it.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-behind-manchester-uniteds-transfer-business
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-transfer-deadline-day-14221328
Here are some information if you cant be bother to use Google yourself.

 

[haram]

Chelsea are the previous champions within Mourinho’s reign. Had. They haven’t brought no one in years. My point is stop stating we need world class defenders to compete. City didn’t buy one world class defender to win the league.

They spent over 250 million on their defence

 

[haram]

Did Pep spend £200m on Neymar. Did he spend £80m on Pogba and £90m on Lukaku. Clearly people can spend what Pep can. Those are also facts

We spent that on Lukaku and Pogba because we had Rooney and Schweinsteiger . Aguero and De Bruyne were already at City.

 

[VP89]

What are you even talking about? Mourinho knows within which cost/wage budget he needs to stay. Its the largest in the PL btw. He or Woodward cant just magically land players on too big wages. Look what the Sanchez transfer did. If its anything that restricted Mourinho in the market this summer it was that deal. It took us well past even City in wages and of course Mourinho would be more restricted in the summer because of it.
This supposed conflict between the club ("Woodward") and Mourinho is made up by ABU media and its sad to see fans hitching a ride on that train.

That's on Woodward. It's his job to control the wage bill and tone it down when needed. Mourinho couldn't have been restricted by the Sanchez signing - Woodward literally briefed the media saying we have room for another 100m CB of the manager wants it.

Morata says we made an offer, he never says if he actually discussed anything with us. He never even says "I turned down Man Utd" He does say he spoke with Conte, yes.

EDIT: He also says there was interest from other leagues. Obviously you seem to know that is apparently not true though.

You need to read what is actually being said and rely less on your imagination.

There's absolutely zero evidence to suggest Lukaku was the "side piece". This is exactly the crap I'm talking about. People will take one sentence and then create a whole soap opera in their heads

Morata says he had the chance to play for United but there was no chance he wasn't going to Chelsea. We know that is bullshit because he never had the chance to play for us. It didn't get that far.

This isn't from one sentence. This is literally what he says and we know it's bullshit because of the entire saga prior which was well documented.

 

[el3mel]

No, I dont think Woodward has ever interfered in the footballing decisions of this club other than to set the financial parameters of first and foremost our wagebill. The man is not stupid. He knows its not his field.
I am referring to the fact that Woodward has gradually stepped down from the practical involvement in transfer and salary negotiations for quite a while now and for the last two years now he is not even involved in such issues anymore. Something that eventually will end up in a DoF -role. Essentially it already exists though.
But media loves to make out a conflict between Woodward and Mourinho and its sad to see fans like you fall for it.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-behind-manchester-uniteds-transfer-business
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-transfer-deadline-day-14221328
Here are some information if you cant be bother to use Google yourself.

Ed still has the final say for the deal to be done on it.

 

[VP89]

Did Pep spend £200m on Neymar. Did he spend £80m on Pogba and £90m on Lukaku. Clearly people can spend what Pep can. Those are also facts

United can't spend what Pep spends. This is also fact.

You can't point to another club backed by a country to try and claim that what Pep does is normal

Stick to moaning about Jose's playing style. You're better off at that because there's a case to it.

 

[Le Duc Anh]

Almost 3 years and he spent about 400M but still struggling to find the best play of style so I don’t think anything will change if you give him more time and money. Beside that, he is a defensive focusing manager so players like Martial, Rashford, Sanchez and Lukaku won’t able to develop more with him cause he spends all his time finding a new CB. Apologize to Mourinho but you are not the one who suitable for our club anymore. Good luck with another club.

 

[Johan07]

That's on Woodward. It's his job to control the wage bill and tone it down when needed. Mourinho couldn't have been restricted by the Sanchez signing - Woodward literally briefed the media saying we have room for another 100m CB of the manager wants it.



Morata says he had the chance to play for United but there was no chance he wasn't going to Chelsea. We know that is bullshit because he never had the chance to play for us. It didn't get that far.

This isn't from one sentence. This is literally what he says and we know it's bullshit because of the entire saga prior which was well documented.

Its pointless to discuss with you if you cannot see the difference between investment (transfer fee) and cost (wage).

 

[Johan07]

Ed still has the final say for the deal to be done on it.

And he will always have. He is the fecking CEO and has to formally sign off on everything. What you are saying and is incorrect is that he has input on which players to sign or not. He doesnt care or should he as long as Mou or any manager stays within budget.
But he will say no if Mourinho wants Neymar, Messi and Bale in the next transfer window. But thats for financial reasons not because Ed thinks they are crappy players.
This blame game on Woodward for interfering in football decisions is tiresome and without merit.

 

[VP89]

Its pointless to discuss with you if you cannot see the difference between investment (transfer fee) and cost (wage).

So you think our wage bill is what restricts Jose mourinho from signing the centre backs he wanted, and that's consistent with Woodward saying he has 100m on a player like Varane if Jose wants?

We are reportedly offering DDG a big wage increase aren't we? We also got rid of Zlatan by way of a large earner and Rooney during Jose's time. Sanchez took up the entire quota despite this?

 

[Johan07]

So you think our wage bill is what restricts Jose mourinho from signing the centre backs he wanted, and that's consistent with Woodward saying he has 100m on a player like Varane if Jose wants?

We are reportedly offering DDG a big wage increase aren't we? We also got rid of Zlatan by way of a large earner and Rooney during Jose's time. Sanchez took up the entire quota despite this?

Yes on both questions.

 

[el3mel]

And he will always have. He is the fecking CEO and has to formally sign off on everything. What you are saying and is incorrect is that he has input on which players to sign or not. He doesnt.
But he will say no if Mourinho wants Neymar, Messi and Bale in the next transfer window. But thats for financial reasons not because Ed thinks they are crappy players.
This blame game on Woodward for interfering in football decisions is tiresome and without merit.

I didn't say he has an input.

I said it's up to him to sign or veto any signing at the end as he has the final say. No one has forced him to pay this and this for players. He showed he can veto signings so any signing we do is also by his approval first and foremost. Giving him credit for not signing Perisic but absolving him of the blame for signing Lukaku and Matic is funny. We paid loads for them because Ed approved and liked the ideas of the manager on the summer he voted Perisic and was reluctant to pay for Morata, so if you want to give him credit for scrapping Perisic you need to blame him for sanctioning Lukkau and Matic. That's the only logical thing.

These excuses given to Woodward will die next season with the same problems happening under a new manager and the mystical DOF isn't hired as we are all predicting. Currently, the only reason some are gunning to defend Ed for is to prove Mourinho is at fault, something all of us recognize and consider his time here up anyway.

 

[Mainoldo]

United can't spend what Pep spends. This is also fact.

You can't point to another club backed by a country to try and claim that what Pep does is normal

Stick to moaning about Jose's playing style. You're better off at that because there's a case to it.

Did city spend the most money last transfer window? Like I don’t get it. Maybe you should stick to not talking about Pep and United. As usual nothing you say adds up except for he brought 2 expensive full backs. One of them was out for 2/3 of the season yet he still one the league. So really he brought one full back. Compared to our first team Matic and first team Lukaku. But yet we fall short. But obviously it’s because of Kyle Walker. If only. Yet Poch has Kyle walker plus a better defence (can we agree?) and didn’t win the league. Maybe the manager is kind of good. Stop blaming the tools.

 

[Bastian]

Exactly.

I think you need to re-read my post. After which we can agree to disagree on the fundamentals.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Did city spend the most money last transfer window? Like I don’t get it. Maybe you should stick to not talking about Pep and United. As usual nothing you say adds up except for he brought 2 expensive full backs. One of them was out for 2/3 of the season yet he still one the league. So really he brought one full back. Compared to our first team Matic and first team Lukaku. But yet we fall short. But obviously it’s because of Kyle Walker. If only. Yet Poch has Kyle walker plus a better defence (can we agree?) and didn’t win the league. Maybe the manager is kind of good. Stop blaming the tools.

 

[VP89]

Did city spend the most money last transfer window? Like I don’t get it. Maybe you should stick to not talking about Pep and United. As usual nothing you say adds up except for he brought 2 expensive full backs. One of them was out for 2/3 of the season yet he still one the league. So really he brought one full back. Compared to our first team Matic and first team Lukaku. But yet we fall short. But obviously it’s because of Kyle Walker. If only. Yet Poch has Kyle walker plus a better defence (can we agree?) and didn’t win the league. Maybe the manager is kind of good. Stop blaming the tools.

You're the one who brought up Pep and United. Not me.

You basically said Jose can plug the holes like Pep did when he can't. No one can because they can't spunk 600m in 3 years. The rest of your post is just a tangent that we never discussed.

 

[Mainoldo]

You're the one who brought up Pep and United. Not me.

You basically said Jose can plug the holes like Pep did when he can't. No one can because they can't spunk 600m in 3 years. The rest of your post is just a tangent that we never discussed.

Pep got 4 new defenders 2 CM , 2 wingers and 2 strikers. Oh 2 GK.

Jose has brought 3 Defenders, 3 CM, 2 Wingers and 2 Strikers. Oh 1 keeper.

Sorry if I can’t sympathies because he fell short by one player. I might be going off tangent but the point remains the same. Jose can plug holes like Pep. Yes he can’t spunk 50m on full backs but Pep also can’t spunk 80m on Center mids end of. If Jose had a set out plan of what he wanted to do with this team like Pep did. Maybe we wouldn’t be talking about sporadic spending with a first XI that plans worse than when he got here.