I don't think Morata was ever our top target. Why Chelsea bought him I have no idea, I don't really pay attention to their transfer dealings.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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I don't think Morata was ever our top target. Why Chelsea bought him I have no idea, I don't really pay attention to their transfer dealings.
He's not great and anyone who watches football knows that. He's got good pace, good physicality and a decent eye for goal but that's it. He can't dribble, his first touch is virtually non existent and everything else in his game set stinks of average. You don't spend 75m for a Heskey with better finishing skills. That's lunacy.
One is a 19 year old, one has been injured for large chunks. Even then, 60 million on two young CB’s no one had even mentioned before we signed them is not heavy spending. He should be allowed to sign a top CB.
Yeah we should have signed Morata instead.
Why didn't Ed veto Lukaku and Matic in transfers if it was the same summer he vetoed Perisic one because of the same reasons ( age, average, too expensive ) ?
60m is serious money mate. But that's not all. Most of his signings had been iffy. He spent 180m on a midfield, which, according to his own admission lack aggression. He spent 75m on a Heskey with better finishing skills and don't get me started on his flank men both of whom proved to be expensive flops. So while I do agree with us needing a CB, I don't think that the club should handle Mou any more money. After spending 400m he should be able to make it to top four. If he can't then he should be fired.
Neither options were good enough. Now Conte payed for the mistake with his job. I can't see why Mourinho shouldn't face the same music. Most of his signings were nothing more then very expensive flops. We're sitting at 7th place and that after spending 400m. That's certainly not good enough.
Ok well you are entitled to your opinion. We need players regardless of the manager.
I think we need players and a new manager. I pity the fool taking the job though. The squad inheritance left by Mourinho is dire. LVG was no better but at least most of his players weren't paid ridiculously high. Can't say the same about Mourinho
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First of all I am not defending Woodward in anyway. Its evident that he's out of depth regarding football matters. Secondly every club in the world veto transfers once in a while. The reason why Conte left Juventus was because the club refused to spend crazy money on Cuadrado. Having said that, the CEO is there to support the manager., something a CEO (Woody included) try hard to do. Sure he should be vetoing craziness but there's a limit to what he can do without sounding a total jerk and its certainly something he try hard to avoid. It seems that Woodward is stuck in a situation were he's damned when he does step in and he's equally damned when he doesn't step in.
If you ask me, we desperately need a middle man. Someone with experience in football who can fully understand managers but has also the necessary reputation to put them in their box when needed.
It is much better than when he arrived. Also, Woodward and the board are responsible for our contracts and the fees we pay.
Are you sure about that? DDG is still our best player. Smalling and Shaw are still our best defenders and we still need a CB. CM is still a mess despite spending 180m. Our best winger is still Martial and we still have issues upfront. Don't take me wrong, LVG's side lacked quality. However, it was mostly made up of players who were on a relatively low salary. Mou will leave us with a bunch of players, on a top salary, that no one would want to touch with a barge pole. Can you see us recouping the club recouping the money we spend on Matic or the other donkey upfront? Can you see us getting rid of Sanchez considering the crazy salary he's got.
The reality is that we spent 400m and there's so little to show for it. Yet for some crazy notion the manager still think he can spend more crazy money to sort the mess he created.
True but when a manager asks for the likes of Sanchez, Matic, Pogba and Lukaku then surely he knows that the club would need to pay serious money to get them on his behalf. Its not as if he's asking for some random player from the Norwegian league.
Wonder if Poch could entice Alderweireld on a free transfer in the Summer?
This thread is too ridiculously long to keep track of so apologies if this has already been posted.
Tifo Football have made a football of how a Man Utd team might look is Pochettino was manager:
Tifo Football have made a football of how a Man Utd team might look is Pochettino was manager:
Ed sanctioned Lukaku and Matic transfers because he liked both targets, especially Lukaku. He wanted a marquee signing and was desperate for a big name to throw that money on after Griezmann deal failed and that's why he agreed on Lukaku. Mourinho asked for Lukaku, he was one of his targets but Ed wasn't forced to pay for him. It's the same summer he vetoed Perisic deal for being old and expensive, and the same summer he was reluctant to pay 90m for Morata, to go on and throw the same money on Lukaku ( not saying Morata is better or any thing ).
Managers give their targets but the one who agrees or vetoes them is Woodward. All the money spent he was happy with spending them on such transfers. It wasn't just the managers asking for them and Ed doing it brainlessly. It's a case of managers asking for them and Woodward agreeing on these transfers.
Like I said, I think the wages and fees paid are entirely down to the board. I think there is total incompetency at board level to do good business in the market and in negotiating contracts. We have both Young and Tony now at 33 on +100K wages. It's a board decision to grant Sanchez a 3 and a half year contract on 400K.
Mourinho phased out Rooney which was one of his better moves in his time here. He got rid of Schweinsteiger (who according to reports was earning +200K) and cut a few others lose who weren't up to the job. I don't think many people knew how troublesome Pogba's character is, but he's obviously got the talent and he brought Zlatan in and those two immediately raised our level and quite possibly the atmosphere in a dressing room comprised mostly of decent players.
I thought Matic was our best outfield player last season over the whole season, even if he tapered off in the last third of it. People on here were laughing at Chelsea for selling him to us.
Given the money we've had to play with and our standing in the game in recent years, I don't think we've missed out on world class players. I don't think they would fancy coming nor that we'd spend the money required. In the long run, I think saving a couple of hundred million in the market will prove less practical than just going all out for guaranteed quality.
IMV it will be easier to work with this team than it would be to work with the team he inherited. Not least because a tonne of contracts are up in the summer so there is a chance to change course.
CEO's usually try their very best to support their manager unless they are totally ridiculous. I am not putting the blame only on Mourinho on the matter. As said we desperately need at least a top quality DOF here as Woodward is clearly out of depth. However, lets makes it clear
a- Mou asked for those players
b- He knew that those players would cost a lot to be brought at OT
c- He should take full responsibility of them failing with us
Also note that Mou is very uncomfortable working with DOFs. He had issues with them at Chelsea and Real. So he might be reluctant to work with DOF here too.
That's Ed's domain. I agree that ultimately, he has to be responsible for the team's performances, of course. But what we pay for players and the contracts, again, that's on the board. And you can see how stupid the board has been way before Mourinho arrived. Starting with Young's contract back in the day and Rooney's 5 year crazy deal.
And Ed should take full responsibility for how each one costs. He's the one spending the money, not the manager. Looks funny when people are giving him credit for vetoing Perisic, Toby and Willian deals but absolve him of the blame when it comes to signing Lukaku and Matic. Fact is : Ed is the same one who agreed on Matic and Lukaku and vetoed Perisic, Toby and Willian, even though they're all exactly similar.
Finally, surely any striker we would have asked for would have costed a lot. Even Morata, a bench warmer, was at the value of 90m when we approached Madrid. We refused to pay for him but went on and paid exactly the same money on Lukaku. Both were Mourinho targets, but it was up to Ed to choose which one deserved to splash his cash on. He preferred Lukaku of the 2, that's all.
I am not defending the board here. As said, I agree we need a DOF whether the manager likes that or not. However, a manager can't ask for high rated players and then hide under the excuse that he doesn't do the negotiation/contracts. High rated players will ask for top salaries and top fees, that's a given. So lets stick to facts. We spent 400m on players Mou wanted and most turned up to be flops.
Now let me tell you how a serious club would work. They would acknowledge our endemic failure on the transfer market and bring a top quality DOF who will go through every single transfer and contract negotiations made from now on. If the manager complains about it in public then he'll get fined. If he wishes to leave then the club would make it clear that they will accept his resignation letter. It is that simple. Mou had proven with us that doesn't deserve to be more then a head coach. If he fails to make it to top 4 then he would be a head coach even after that.
Oh comeon. Do you think we'll be able to get Pogba for 10m? Be realistic.
I completely agree with the 2nd paragraph. With the first, I don't think anyone can blame Mourinho for Sanchez' wages. And players will ask for crazy money here because they know the board is stupid. I've said this often, but Andy Robertson was on 30K. Just recently he was upped to 60K. Shaw was on 110K (after doing nothing) and he played 5 good games and got bumped to 150K. I think it's pretty clear the board has been mismanaging the club in all sorts of ways since SAF retired.
Did I say that?
Winning? 2nd place isn't winning. I had the same opinion as you, that it didn't matter how we played as long as we won the major trophies.
The Europa and League cups were good signs, but that's all those were ; a promise of things to come.
2 seasons later, we are nowhere near good enough, and have regressed. Last year's (distant) 2nd place came after we meekly went out to Sevilla in the CL, with Mourinho's questionable approach in that tie.
Truth be told, that's where I lost patience with him, because if we were not winning trophies, what's the point of putting up with his cowardly, reactive approach to football games?
Well that's what you're suggesting mate. EPL proven players and big names will ask for huge salaries and huge fees. As said, I am not absolving the board for the mistakes they made. But surely the manager can't get away with the fact that we're 7th in the EPL table, that most of the players he wanted had flopped and that our football is exciting as watching paint dry.
Should our managers target low rated players who don't cost much then ?
Of course you do. Sanchez is a top player who was heading at the end of the contract. With Shitty closing at him then the only way we could get him was to outpay him. Surely Mou knew that by asking for him, then the club will have to pay loads of money for him. I mean even we know that and we're no special ones.
I'm not absolving the manager either mate, from the performances of the team. I've defended him quite aggressively on here but I accept that the responsibility lies with him. I do think though that different clubs pay different prices for players, not just because of who they are but who they employ and how they speak (we can blow anyone out of the market, that type of thing).
In no way do I accept that our clusterfeck of a board is the responsibility of the manager at any given time. That contract is all on the board.
No, but when they ask for top players then they should bear responsibility for them. You see, the United managerial job is pretty much a sword of damocles. The manager gets a level of autonomy which most managers would dream of having, however with such power comes responsibility. The manager can't constantly ask for top players only for them to blame others if they didn't work out. Don't take me wrong, no manager is infallible and mistakes will happen. However clubs pay top people, top salaries so that those mistakes are kept to a minimum. This is simply not happening under Mou.
You know that we're at a point of universally agreeing Mourinho time here is up and this season should be his last anyway. Our money spending is up to Woodward though. It's just his job that's all. Even during LVG days we weren't targeting many top players but were still over spending and then giving them insane wages.
As said, the only way we could get Sanchez was to pay him ridiculous money. Shitty has a better team, are better run, they have more chances of winning real trophies then we do and a waaaaay better manager.
What I do blame the club is they didn't veto the transfer. We didn't need Sanchez since we already had Martial and the money should had been spent elsewhere. There again, we all know how Mou got obsessed with experienced left wingers. If we didn't sign Sanchez up then the special one would have probably threw a fit, something the club wanted to avoid.
All I am saying is that no negotiator, no matter how could he is, is able to drive the price of a new Ferrari to 100 bucks. Top players will ask for top fees and top salaries. That doesn't mean that Woody is doing a good job. Quite the contrary.
Agree but I'm not saying he should have got Lukaku at lower price. What I'm saying is Ed wasn't forced to pay for Lukaku. He agreed with Mourinho on that transfer, and disagreed with him on Perisic, so he bought Lukaku and vetoed Perisic. It's ultimately up to Ed to choose to spend the money or not and on whom. That's his job.
They spent less than us first summer and probably spent less than us this window. So what's the excuse.
Did Juventus? Did Chelsea, Did PSG? Did Real Mardid, did Barca? Stop comparing us to one team just to fit a narrative.
Theyve spent over 200m than both us and Liverpool.
So!
Does't excuse us from playing crap football and having a spine on Smalling, Jones, Matic and Fellaini in our last game against a team as good as Norwich City.
Exactly.with hindsight the Sanchez deal was a crazy deal
at the time though I'd say 90% on here were delighted. Martial was in great form and I thought we'd added brilliant balance to our right wing. I couldn't believe it when Mourinho dumped Martial and that signing has really hurt us. It signalled the end of our season in many ways as we never played well with any consistency after it even to today.
What impact has those ridiculous wages had on Pogba or De Gea? had you said in January we'd be paying Sanchez the figures being mentioned I would have said no - I thought he'd get a Rooney style deal (200k plus bonuses).
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