Liverpool are fraud along with their manager. Beats City and then gets beaten by Swansea and West Brom. Long may it continue...
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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He's a great manager at getting a team to orchestrate a plan for on the ball and off the ball in the opponents half.
Just absolutely fecking useless setting his teams up to do anything half decent in their own half.
Just absolutely fecking useless setting his teams up to do anything half decent in their own half.
He's still building, the difficulty for Liverpool is they believe they should be competing at the very top of club football, to be consistently there without huge investment is quite the challenge. People need to move on, people don't really care all that much about these local trophies anymore hence Wenger makes winning the FA cup look very easy yet there are calls for his head year after year.
That's absolutely wrong, Liverpool are excellent at counter-attacking just like Mourinho's team except that they do it a bit different. They'd absolutely rip a team to shreds if said team played a possession based approach to attack them but the moment a decent defence digs deep against them they just cannot open them up. That's what sets City aside from other sides this season. While Liverpool's approach does look breath taking they are nowhere close to City level.
I agree, Klopp is doing a good job but his main challenge is motivating Liverpool to play with near the same intensity against minnow opposition as the bigger teams. If he can't change that then any consistency or silverware is going to be hard to come by.
It seems Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs have decided that since they can't compete financially with Chelsea or the Manchester clubs they're better off being as skint as possible. It's a race to see who can manage top 4 while being the thriftiest.
Paying 75 million for a defender is financially competing .
They've financed that off the Coutinho sale, though.
That could have to do with the fact that City's team is stocked with World class talent. Comparing the teams individually, there isn't many positions, if any, where Liverpool have better players.
It's only logical City's team, with players like KDB, Sane, Silva etc. will have an easier time breaking teams down than a midfield of Henderson and Can and shite.
True but they can't say the owners wont spend.
Surprised to see the money excuse still being used, surely that doesn't apply with Liverpool anymore.
Norbert 
Good coach, nothing special. Please stay at Pool for many years
Good coach, nothing special. Please stay at Pool for many years
Starting to get worried they'll bin him off for a manager that can actually....manage.
Extend to sell is not a bad strategy as long as you keep the wages sufficiently low to give the player an incentive to switch clubs in search for 1st team football. He´s an okay back-up goalie. I think he´ll also do well in a more defensive side, because he´s a good shotstopper. I bet you can still sell him for €8-10M.I really was gobsmacked when he extended/renewed Mignolet’s contract, hes fecking useless, why cant he see it
Though he definitely should not be starting anymore. Give Karius or Ward an extended run to see whether they can be a future #1 with some confidence behind them. If not you need to find a new #1 in the summer.
I don’t agree that the main issue is motivation. Liverpool find it difficult to beat teams that don’t leave space in behind, which is like 80 per cent of the league. A lot of the time Liverpool just labour to find space when facing a low block.
Additionally Liverpool can’t defend. Just can’t. They overcommit to attacking, partly because they find it hard to play through packed defences, and leave gaps. They don’t clear their lines well. They are totally disorganised when they face set pieces and when they have to face any kind of intricate play.
Klopp jumps on the touch line and makes some sound affects and he’s praised as a god. If Liverpool had City’s resources he could pack the team with so many great forwards his failings might not matter. Good for us he can’t.
Well that's partly my point. Pep is praised as a genius but if Klopp or Wenger had his resources they'd be doing a lot better too and the flaws in their tactical approaches wouldn't be as exposed. Every manager has weaknesses but if the team has sufficient quality it papers over the cracks. I don't think Liverpool's attackers are anywhere near as great as they're made out to be, and likewise their defenders aren't as poor. The team's setup is just heavily slanted away from defending towards trying to outscore the opposition.
If Klopp had the team play more organized and give more defensive responsibility to the midfield and attack (and not just in pressing) they'd probably concede fewer, but score less as well. But that wouldn't be playing to Klopp's tactical strengths, and would garner him less credit with the fans and media.
How long can this serial trophy dodger survive? Rodgers did better (and very nearly won the league) and he was binned off.
What's he building? The fecking Great Wall of China?
Hes had plenty of money and owns the most expensive defender in history. People need to stop making excuses. He's been at the club long enough now.
Was great to see them getting knocked out. Just hope we can go on and win it now and stop City gettting all the trophies.
Jurgen Klopp quote after the game, as per BBC:
"West Brom deserve it because they scored three goals and we only scored two."
Groundbreaking stuff.
"West Brom deserve it because they scored three goals and we only scored two."
Groundbreaking stuff.
Nearly 3 ys in the Prem and still seems to live for the big games.
You wonder if his finest moments as Dortmund boss overthrowing BM dominance and focusing so much on an 'ABS' (basically obessing over big games) have crippled him in a league where the 'weaker' teams are consistently taking points from the bigger clubs.
You wonder if his finest moments as Dortmund boss overthrowing BM dominance and focusing so much on an 'ABS' (basically obessing over big games) have crippled him in a league where the 'weaker' teams are consistently taking points from the bigger clubs.
He's either too stubborn or down right incapable of learning from his mistakes. Again and again his side drops points against opposition they should be beating and he does nothing to rectify it. He has this unflappable belief in the way he sets up his teams to play and refuses to diverge from it.
A shiny new defender was never going to solve their defensive woes; it's his approach to the game that's the problem. As soon as a team gets beyond that first press they've had it. And when teams go ahead against them they really struggle to break them down. Most managers will have a plan B, or someone who can be brought into the side to give them another approach, but not Klopp. To sure up their defense he'll need to compromise a bit in attack, but he won't do that, it's not his philosophy.
A shiny new defender was never going to solve their defensive woes; it's his approach to the game that's the problem. As soon as a team gets beyond that first press they've had it. And when teams go ahead against them they really struggle to break them down. Most managers will have a plan B, or someone who can be brought into the side to give them another approach, but not Klopp. To sure up their defense he'll need to compromise a bit in attack, but he won't do that, it's not his philosophy.
Thank you, but they do have stupid money, and I agree they do generate most of it themselves (bar the odd Glazier spyhon job). UTD were clever in the 90’s, and used their new found title winning prominence brilliantly when they won the league, and continued to win trophies from there. Their commercial stance was second to none, and were arguably at least as successful off the pitch, as they were on it, and fair to play to them for it. They commercially used the newly formatted, SKY driven Premier League, exploiting every opportunity.
It’s a shame commercially that in 1990, Liverpool we’re run like they were in 1970.
Well, he can count. A basic need in any manager.
Syphon job?
He seems a bit like Wenger to me. Very good at getting his team to play well in a certain way, but when that presents problems or weaknesses in games, he has no solutions and won't change anything, because he won't accept anything he's doing is wrong.
Works from time to time in a league where you only have one other team challenging you as it's only them you need to get the better of. In a league where you have 5 other competitive teams, you are never going to better them all with flawed ideals. One or more will always have better answers than you when things aren't going their way in games.
Works from time to time in a league where you only have one other team challenging you as it's only them you need to get the better of. In a league where you have 5 other competitive teams, you are never going to better them all with flawed ideals. One or more will always have better answers than you when things aren't going their way in games.
Agreed. His approach reminds me of Bielsa's infamous quote that, if football was played by robots he would win everything. I still believe he's a very good manager but his attacking-minded approach and his natural tendency towards the beautiful game give him too much leeway in the eyes of both fans and experts. Add to this the fact that Liverpool can't offer the same wages as the two Manchester clubs and you'll see how he's avoided comparisons with Ferguson and (lately) Guardiola who are both managers who opt(ed) for a more flamboyant approach but also manage(d) to win things.
Initially, i thought he was a breath of fresh air in the football world too and, perhaps, the next big thing in the managerial world. But after the two Bundesliga titles he won, he took his footballing philosophy to extremes. There were league games in which Dortmund couldn't open up defences and they resorted to kicking the ball from their third to the opponent's defenders so that they could press high and steal the ball. Crazy stuff.
And because of what he achieved with Dortmund nobody mentions his tactics in the 2013 CL final. As long as the energy levels were high and the high pressing worked they had Bayern Munich pinned down with Schweinsteiger dropping deep to help with the build-up play and Martinez being left in no man's land in the midfield. When they eventually ran out of gas, Bayern pushed their lines higher and Robben/Muller were finding all kinds of spaces in between the lines. Still, Klopp's instructions never changed and this resulted to his midfield staying high up the pitch in order to support the attack (unsuccessfully because they didn't have the legs to press any longer) while the tired back-four were hesitant to retain the high line because they knew that they couldn't deal with runs in behind from Robben and company. Everyone and his dog could see that Bayern were running rings around them at that point. And there was Klopp playing the biggest game of his entire career, watching his team struggling to keep up and doing absolutely nothing about it. But then i guess, if he had a mind to make alterations to his plan, he would have won at least one of the finals he's played.
As you mentioned, spending 75 million on a CB when your choices in the midfield are the biggest issue seems quite odd. Funny thing is that, despite all that, he's still Liverpool's best hope to win a title in a season where the title will be decided at an 80-85 points tally.
Thoughtful comment. Makes sense. Motivation for kamikaze football against smaller teams. Humility has to be the answer. And a Plan B
Got to laugh at Gerrard there, he is surely aware Liverpool have won one trophy in the last decade.
Was it with some of youse thinking Liverpool fans all think the same ? It beggers belief. I pointed out that one of the finals we lost was against City. That is all.
UTD owe over 400 million in debt, due to leverage debt. I might be wrong, you’d know more than me to be fair.
He shares the same weird reality with the average RAWK posters and some clueless pundits. In that reality, their last league title -> Istanbul -> the almost-win-PL-2014 all happened in 3 consecutive years and nothing else happened in between.
I genuinely think he’s a very good manager. He’s not in the same league as Guardiola, Mourinho etc but is capable of building very good sides.
I think he needs to develop a better understanding of how to protect his defence using his midfield, because it’s far too focused on the attacking side at the moment. The back four itself has its bad moments but isn’t terrible, it’s just very easy for sides to bypass the midfield that should be protecting it. He’s also guilty of keeping faith with average players like Henderson and Milner. Players like that shouldn’t be starting for a side that wants to try and start winning trophies again. The idea that we struggle against sides that park the bus is overstated as well. Swansea was the first time in ages I’d seen us genuinely struggle to create anything meaningful.
On the trophy subject, that’s incredibly disappointing for a manager with his reputation. He was brought in to get us winning things again and so far he hasn’t done that. I still wouldn’t want him sacked though, even if we miss out on top four. We wouldn’t be able to get anyone better and it’s pointless going through yet another rebuilding cycle.
It’s amazing how many have popped up in here for the first time in weeks declaring him a fraud, terrible manager etc. It’s incredibly knee jerk, just like the posts a few weeks ago from some of your own supporters declaring him a better manager than Mourinho. If we beat Huddersfield and United lose at Spurs it’ll get turned on it’s head again, such is the nature of this thread.
I actually think United fans in this thread talk him up more than we do.
I'm not sure it's anywhere near that figure now. Also, the critical figure is the cost of servicing the debt year on year rather than how much it is.
E.g. a £1000 from a payday loan company will cost more to service than £1000 from NatWest.
Yeah i agree about extending to get more money for a player but that only works if you get rid, which in this case didn’t happen, he just extended it and kept him.
Oh and please do not confuse me as being a Liverpool fan
im 100% UTD.He's a good manager, but I just wonder how long before he gets the scrutiny that Wenger and Mou get.
Agree on this. Despite all his flaws, I would be delighted if he gets the sack, as I don't see you replacing him with anyone better. He will certainly get another season whatever happens in this one imo and then if things don't change can even see him leave by his own decision.
£75M on VVD and they cant find a top 20 keeper for half that in 3 years? Why did they even let golden gloves go?
Why do you not think he's on the same level as Guardiola? If Klopp had an unlimited budget I think he'd do just as well as Guardiola. On the flip side if Guardiola managed Liverpool I don't think he'd be doing any better than Klopp.
Imagine if José – or Wenger or Conte for that matter – lost to Swansea in the EPL and then WBA at home in the FA Cup within the space of a few days … why does Klopp get special treatment from almost everyone?