[#07]

Then how do you excuse his bad performances in every single big game hes played? (bar one of the Real Madrid semi finals at Juve)

I don't recall him being bad against Spurs and Arsenal. Ander and Carrick were better, that doesn't mean Pogba was rubbish though. Never looked like going into header blind and giving away a handball penalty in either game, for example.

 

[rooney1905]

While it wasn't our best game it's not like we were bossed around. In terms of chances we should have edged but on the balance of overall play a draw isn't a terrible result. Not to mention we have another run of games we can go on while a number of teams ahead of us play each other. Should we win our next 3 games we will most likely be in a higher position in the table.

 

[Drz]

You say that but Rooney & Fellaini helped set up the goal at the end.

True for sure. But we missed some easy chances prior. That was coming, or rather could have been scored earlier.
In Rooney's case, no doubt he is more energetic than Carrick, but I'd have brought in Mata first. Aside from being head-and-shoulders technically better, he has been key to chance-creation notably versus Liverpool.
At the end we had no-one trying to run-in behind Liverpool and no one with pace to pounce on a good chance.
It worked out well at the end, but Zlatan was average to poor barring that moment he scored, Rooney too. Fellaini is the only one that actually had an effect in midfield as he won the ball back in some interesting positions but nothing came of it because we didn't have the runners.

Maybe I'm just terribly annoyed at the performance and result. Also annoyed that we resorted to lumping the ball forward at the end with over 20 mins to go. To put it simply, I don't rate this Liverpool side, they have a good manager, but seriously if we can't beat a team that's best quality is running into you, then we have only ourselves to blame and it is imperitive we learn from this.

 

[Luke Parker]

It's "preposterous" to "even think" that rather than being on a continuous never-ending upward performance trajectory, this team might just about be finding its level? One win in six games against the current top five and the fact we've been behind those five sides since mid-September (and are no closer to 4th now than we were a month ago) would tend to indicate plateau. Yes we're putting relegation fodder and mid-table sides to the sword with regularity (something Van Gaal failed to do last year), but so are all the teams above us. Incidentally, after 21 games last year we were two points closer to 4th and three points closer to the league leaders than we are now.

We are also 4 points closer to second place this year and a point closer to third?

We are so much more difficult to beat and the football is far more exciting. We're starting to look like a decent unit and have outplayed some good opposition in the process. Get the basics right and the results will follow and I think Jose is getting it right more often than not now. There are more teams in reach this season, whereas last year at this point 4th was our only option. This year anywhere between 2nd and 4th is a good possibility if we keep this run going. I think Chelsea are too far ahead now barring a complete meltdown given their consistency so far.

 

[Nanotron]

True for sure. But we missed some easy chances prior. That was coming, or rather could have been scored earlier.
In Rooney's case, no doubt he is more energetic than Carrick, but I'd have brought in Mata first. Aside from being head-and-shoulders technically better, he has been key to chance-creation notably versus Liverpool.
At the end we had no-one trying to run-in behind Liverpool and no one with pace to pounce on a good chance.
It worked out well at the end, but Zlatan was average to poor barring that moment he scored, Rooney too. Fellaini is the only one that actually had an effect in midfield as he won the ball back in some interesting positions but nothing came of it because we didn't have the runners.

Maybe I'm just terribly annoyed at the performance and result. Also annoyed that we resorted to lumping the ball forward at the end with over 20 mins to go. To put it simply, I don't rate this Liverpool side, they have a good manager, but seriously if we can't beat a team that's best quality is running into you, then we have only ourselves to blame and it is imperitive we learn from this.

Just want to point out there is a big difference in lumping the ball forward and being more direct bypassing the midfield hitting the target men. It's not an aimless tactic. And it worked. This gets confused and even mores with so called analysts which is surprising. You would swear we just booted the ball aimlessly forward the entire game by the talk of some.

 

[Dec9003]

I think we were the masters of our own demise yesterday. Obviously that's easy to say when #pogba was doing a wavy arm dance for a fairly straightforward header in the box, #pogba feck me.
But it does go deeper than that, the initial team sheet I was impressed with and thought its close to what I'd have gone with, I was really happy Martial started, until I saw him playing.
Martial is one of my favourite players at the club, if not my favourite, but feck me it's easy to make him ineffective.
He needs to sort himself out and start getting ensuring he's contributing, instead of letting the game go by him strolling about the left wing.
We made a few chances which we always do and thankfully we managed to score one, but if we learned to properly finish (mainly Mkhytarian on that one) then it would have been a routine win.
Final thought is that Mata should be in these matches all the time, he has the ability to play it simple out of tight spaces which is highly effective in these matches.

 

[Drz]

Just want to point out there is a big difference in lumping the ball forward and being more direct bypassing the midfield hitting the target men. It's not an aimless tactic. And it worked. This gets confused and even mores with so called analysts which is surprising. You would swear we just booted the ball aimlessly forward the entire game by the talk of some.

It is reductive indeed to call it long-ball. If I had to revise my statement I'd say we played too direct, and it wasn't the most optimal tactic when you notice Zlatan winning the sum-total of zilch in the air versus Lovren in the 70minutes prior. Liverpool's strategy over the past 3 years has consisted in winning a scrap-fest in the middle and getting in the opposition face. By playing direct when our target man was not winning anything in the air, we were basically playing into their hands as they were first on the second ball.
We were poor at finding pockets of space to play slightly less direct, and by introducing Rooney instead of Mata in the midfield 3 we accepted to scrap for the ball in the middle rather than show composure, technique and intelligence to work around their midfielders.

 

[Infra-red]

We are also 4 points closer to second place this year and a point closer to third? It's meaningless.

We are so much more difficult to beat and the football is far more exciting. We're starting to look like a decent unit and have outplayed some good opposition in the process. Get the basics right and the results will follow and I think Jose is getting it right more often than not now. There are more teams in reach this season, whereas last year at this point 4th was our only option. This year anywhere between 2nd and 4th is a good possibility if we keep this run going. I think Chelsea are too far ahead now barring a complete meltdown given their consistency so far.

Keeping this run going won't be enough. The current top four have all been consistently beating non-top-six opposition; that we keep doing it too is a given. If we want to gain ground on them we'll need to start beating the top sides as well.

 

[Sparky10Legend]

We now need 13 wins from 18 , and 3 draws. Minimum.

And yes I'm fully aware that will put us on 82 points, but I do believe that's the kinda figure we will need.

 

[KVDP]

Jose/ Utd are not getting more than 50% from the squad they have. if Klopp had Utds squad, he would be 4 -6 points clear of chelsea.

 

[Roosney]

Would it have been a draw today had pool a fully fit Coutinho and Mane leading the line ?

We would have won, easily.

 

[Sparky10Legend]

Jose/ Utd are not getting more than 50% from the squad they have. if Klopp had Utds squad, he would be 4 -6 points clear of chelsea.

So we would have won 17/18 from 20.

OK.

 

[KVDP]

So we would have won 17/18 from 20.

OK.

I reckon we would be unbeaten with perhaps 2 draws.

 

[gajender]

Jose/ Utd are not getting more than 50% from the squad they have. if Klopp had Utds squad, he would be 4 -6 points clear of chelsea.

Does Klopp turn water into wine as well . There is wumming and then there is this 6 points clear of Chelsea would mean 58 points out of 63 in total there is limit to hyperbole as well next time please consider that.

 

[sergiosigurvinson]

Jose/ Utd are not getting more than 50% from the squad they have. if Klopp had Utds squad, he would be 4 -6 points clear of chelsea.

Nearly impossible what you suggest, there is always a limit on what you can get.
Klopp is a very good coach. The positions the team was able to hold on so long was impressive. The moment Fellaini was brought in, the long balls, more possession because they were able to hold the ball in the team), we self creating more danger,... changed the game

 

[Unmutual]

Does Klopp turn water into wine as well . There is wumming and then there is this 6 points clear of Chelsea would mean 58 points out of 63 in total there is limit to hyperbole as well next time please consider that.

19 wins & 1 draw from 21 games. Seems legit.

 

[djembatheking]

I think before kick off Klopp would have been happy with a draw with the players he had missing and just returning from injury . As it panned out he was probably gutted at full time as they came close to holding out for all three points and not given Chelsea the chance to stretch their lead on them as he also knows that this season could be his big chance at challenging for the title without any European football . It will be a lot tougher next year for sure .
From our point of view the draw is not so bad as far as getting in the top 4 , we are still in the mix for that but missed out on the chance to get right in the mix for 2nd place and to be in prime position to hunt down Chelsea if (and it`s a big if ) they have any kind of blip and fall apart (which I can`t see happening ) .

 

[predator]

I hate games like these because they bring out some ridiculous opinions, especially on this forum. I've seen people slating almost everyone of our starting 11 for individual characteristics.
Pogba is probably the only player who deserves a temporary slating because he gave away a goal and lost the ball numerous times due to wrong decision making.
I'm seeing people slating Zlatan, Mkhi, Herrera, Mata, even Rooney (who I thought brought a bit of nouse to our midfield). The list goes on.

We were simply outplayed or outsmarted by Klopp. Liverpools pressing was fantastic. They got their goal and produced a game plan which we couldn't unfold. We were resorting to half pitch long balls for a good 25 mins before the final whistle because we had nothing else to try.

I think our starting 11 players are mostly individually fantastic. I'd be more wary of our approach to games were we are pressed this much, which is unusual in the Premier league.

 

[PickledRed]

I hate games like these because they bring out some ridiculous opinions, especially on this forum. I've seen people slating almost everyone of our starting 11 for individual characteristics.
Pogba is probably the only player who deserves a temporary slating because he gave away a goal and lost the ball numerous times due to wrong decision making.
I'm seeing people slating Zlatan, Mkhi, Herrera, Mata, even Rooney (who I thought brought a bit of nouse to our midfield). The list goes on.

We were simply outplayed or outsmarted by Klopp. Liverpools pressing was fantastic. They got their goal and produced a game plan which we couldn't unfold. We were resorting to half pitch long balls for a good 25 mins before the final whistle because we had nothing else to try.

I think our starting 11 players are mostly individually fantastic. I'd be more wary of our approach to games were we are pressed this much, which is unusual in the Premier league.

Great assessment

 

[SSSSnake]

True for sure. But we missed some easy chances prior. That was coming, or rather could have been scored earlier.
In Rooney's case, no doubt he is more energetic than Carrick, but I'd have brought in Mata first. Aside from being head-and-shoulders technically better, he has been key to chance-creation notably versus Liverpool.
At the end we had no-one trying to run-in behind Liverpool and no one with pace to pounce on a good chance.
It worked out well at the end, but Zlatan was average to poor barring that moment he scored, Rooney too. Fellaini is the only one that actually had an effect in midfield as he won the ball back in some interesting positions but nothing came of it because we didn't have the runners.

Maybe I'm just terribly annoyed at the performance and result. Also annoyed that we resorted to lumping the ball forward at the end with over 20 mins to go. To put it simply, I don't rate this Liverpool side, they have a good manager, but seriously if we can't beat a team that's best quality is running into you, then we have only ourselves to blame and it is imperitive we learn from this.

Yeah I get what you mean. Seemed weird Rashford wasn't introduced. He loves running in behind.

Liverpool looked very comfortable for large parts of the match mainly due to their press but I haven't got any problems going long to counter act this. We are not a long ball team and I'm sure the stats show we're 18th in the league for long balls only behind Arsenal and City. We live to fight another day so here's hoping for another long winning run.

 

[Zoo]

I hate games like these because they bring out some ridiculous opinions, especially on this forum. I've seen people slating almost everyone of our starting 11 for individual characteristics.
Pogba is probably the only player who deserves a temporary slating because he gave away a goal and lost the ball numerous times due to wrong decision making.
I'm seeing people slating Zlatan, Mkhi, Herrera, Mata, even Rooney (who I thought brought a bit of nouse to our midfield). The list goes on.

We were simply outplayed or outsmarted by Klopp. Liverpools pressing was fantastic. They got their goal and produced a game plan which we couldn't unfold. We were resorting to half pitch long balls for a good 25 mins before the final whistle because we had nothing else to try.

I think our starting 11 players are mostly individually fantastic. I'd be more wary of our approach to games were we are pressed this much, which is unusual in the Premier league.

We also created very clear chances in the first half which if taken would have changed the whole complexion of the game and forced Klopp to react. Draw was a fair result.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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[Robertd0803]

We should have been at least 3-1 up at half time, but then again we could have lost the game in the last few minutes when we were messing around in our own box. We missed some chances we really should have scored but that has been a trend all season. On the positive we didn't give in and we didn't lose which would have been worst case scenario.

Pogba was shocking but everyone can have a bad game, just unfortunate that his was against Liverpool and gave away a penalty while trying to be the goalkeeper.

Glad Fellaini had a positive impact when he came on, cant imagine the uproar if Rashford was left on the bench and we didn't get anything out of the game. That's twice now we have scored from a Fellaini rebound against Liverpool, must be some sort of record

 

[SalfordRed1960]

I hate games like these because they bring out some ridiculous opinions, especially on this forum. I've seen people slating almost everyone of our starting 11 for individual characteristics.
Pogba is probably the only player who deserves a temporary slating because he gave away a goal and lost the ball numerous times due to wrong decision making.
I'm seeing people slating Zlatan, Mkhi, Herrera, Mata, even Rooney (who I thought brought a bit of nouse to our midfield). The list goes on.

We were simply outplayed or outsmarted by Klopp. Liverpools pressing was fantastic. They got their goal and produced a game plan which we couldn't unfold. We were resorting to half pitch long balls for a good 25 mins before the final whistle because we had nothing else to try.

I think our starting 11 players are mostly individually fantastic. I'd be more wary of our approach to games were we are pressed this much, which is unusual in the Premier league.

The only disagreement with that is it implies we did not create anything before the long ball. We created shed loads, their defending was solid, but we passed through their midfield at ease.
Sure their forward pressing caused our backline problems and unusual errors which led to their goal. But let's not kid ourselves they played us off the park. They created nothing in the first half and only when we took additional risk and they brought their subs on late in the game did they create anything.
Pogba and Miki (twice) should have put us well out of sight.
Their away performance was for a point, so their plan worked, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jackofalltrades]

Very frusrating but I think we should be optimistic. We played very well at times and better than Liverpool as well. Overall, we edged it, I'd say, especially in attacking attitude. I think Pogba was planning to head the ball, maybe the movement of his arms was to get power behind the header, it but he was in such a tizz that he misjudged it.

But Liverpool were not likely to be a walkover, they're second, have beaten Chelsea & Arsenal away and have been pretty good all season More rested too as they're not in Europe. We should have won and we could have scored 5.

I'm sure someone can tell me how many penalties they've had against us in the last 25 years, it seems quite a few to me. And a few goals have also come from a hoof from defence, even directly from the keeper ( with Torres scoring ), if I remember correctly.

Bad dropping two more home points, but personally I'm not worried by the draw in the sense that progress is what was expected and I think that's what we're getting.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We also created very clear chances in the first half which if taken would have changed the whole complexion of the game and forced Klopp to react. Draw was a fair result.

They came in a bunch, after we'd weathered the initial storm and were starting to put the hurt on them. Could only see one team winning at that point. And then Pogba handed (literally) them a goal out of nowhere which completely changed the pattern of the game...

 

[Fully Fledged]

I am not saying that those who said that he had a shite game are saying he was shite.

I am talking about the ones who have actually called HIM shite and a fecking "Fraud".

Because there has been, which is why I said it...Make sense?

yeah.

 

[Giant Midget]

A win yesterday would have put us in with an outside chance for the title. But now, I'd be really happy with this season if we can:

1) Get Top 4
2) Keep Liverpool from the title.

With a few squad reinforcements over the summer, we should be in top shape to challenge next year. Once again, when you think back to those 4 home draws against easy opposition... if only we would have even just 3 of them, we'd be right up there.

 

[Drz]

Yeah I get what you mean. Seemed weird Rashford wasn't introduced. He loves running in behind.

Liverpool looked very comfortable for large parts of the match mainly due to their press but I haven't got any problems going long to counter act this. We are not a long ball team and I'm sure the stats show we're 18th in the league for long balls only behind Arsenal and City. We live to fight another day so here's hoping for another long winning run.

Well, the fact that we didn't lose helps us extend our unbeaten run, which is a big positive for me, because it is the only way to cure the chronic confidence issues the squad has been crippled with since Moyes touched this club.
This result should keep the team from getting "big-headed": there is work to do but there is also confidence to be taken by the direction our performances are taking.

 

[Feedingseagulls]

If you haven't seen it, check out Rio's reaction when Ibra scored...amazing.

Most cogent analysis from him this year so far! Great commitment tbf.

 

[RobinLFC]

They came in a bunch, after we'd weathered the initial storm and were starting to put the hurt on them. Could only see one team winning at that point. And then Pogba handed (literally) them a goal out of nowhere which completely changed the pattern of the game...

You're getting rather repetitive with the 'penalty changed the game' narrative. It's not because you had the best chances before the penalty that that you would've automatically went on to win the game if it didn't happen, that's pure speculation.

The penalty changed our style of play, it changed how you approached the second half (Rooney on for Carrick wouldn't have happened at 1-0 or 0-0) and ultimately how the game panned out in the end. If United had scored the first goal, maybe it would've been completely the other way around, who knows.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

You're getting rather repetitive with the 'penalty changed the game' narrative. It's not because you had the best chances before the penalty that that you would've automatically went on to win the game if it didn't happen, that's pure speculation.

The penalty changed our style of play, it changed how you approached the second half (Rooney on for Carrick wouldn't have happened at 1-0 or 0-0) and ultimately how the game panned out in the end. If United had scored the first goal, maybe it would've been completely the other way around, who knows.

He's not suggesting we'd automatically have won the game, but were beginning to make good chances, hence looked more likely at that point.

The penalty, as you concede, changed the tactics of both teams as you sat back and countered and we became increasingly direct. It would, of course, have been different had we scored first.

The only point you're disagreeing with him over is the claim regarding Utd automatically winning, which he never said.

Can't we all just love one another, man?

 

[RobinLFC]

He's not suggesting we'd automatically have won the game, but were beginning to make good chances, hence looked more likely at that point.

The penalty, as you concede, changed the tactics of both teams as you sat back and countered and we became increasingly direct. It would, of course, have been different had we scored first.

The only point you're disagreeing with him over is the claim regarding Utd automatically winning, which he never said.

Can't we all just love one another, man?

Works for me! I just disagreed with the 'could only see one team winning at that point', yeah.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You're getting rather repetitive with the 'penalty changed the game' narrative. It's not because you had the best chances before the penalty that that you would've automatically went on to win the game if it didn't happen, that's pure speculation.

The penalty changed our style of play, it changed how you approached the second half (Rooney on for Carrick wouldn't have happened at 1-0 or 0-0) and ultimately how the game panned out in the end. If United had scored the first goal, maybe it would've been completely the other way around, who knows.

Criticises my "penalty changed the game" narrative. Goes on to explain how the penalty changed the game.

Hmmm...

Speculation aside, do you not agree United were the team most likely to score up until we conceded that penalty?

 

[Hugh Jass]

Usual game for us. Had many chances but wouldn't take it. The only reason we never thrash team this season.

Pogba - missed a great chance. The only thing he lacks for being world class at the moment is killer instinct in front of goal. Anyone would score that one on one.
Herrera - super tackling and passing in one.
Mhiki - missed a great chance. Should have an assist. Should have scored.
Zlatan - missed a great chance (being too slow). Great free kick for a change though. Couldn't believe it didn't go in.
Rooney - one good attempt but flagged.
Jones - shaky.
Rojo - solid.
Valencia - being Valencia.
Martial - missed a great chance.
De Gea - solid.
Mata - didn't do much.
Fellaini - not a United player so I won't comment on him.

MotM for Liverpool: Michael Oliver. That's so out of the blue. If that is a penalty. Why we never had it? Handballs in penalty, hacked in penalty but never got one.

Another minus point for commentator. WTF is this Valencia off side?

I agree we should have edged chance wise, but it was as obvious a penalty as any.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I agree we should have edged chance wise, but it was as obvious a penalty as any.

It was an obvious penalty and I have no dispute with the award. However the intent ruling, which is incredibly subjective, complicates matters. I'm certain Pogba didn't intend to handle, he was just being a clumsy idiot. The Ref knows this too, hence no booking. No football fan would anyway dispute it should have been a penalty, but the rules disagree. They need to be changed. It's just daft (but no more daft than Pogba's moment of idiocy).

 

[TheReligion]

I hate games like these because they bring out some ridiculous opinions, especially on this forum. I've seen people slating almost everyone of our starting 11 for individual characteristics.
Pogba is probably the only player who deserves a temporary slating because he gave away a goal and lost the ball numerous times due to wrong decision making.
I'm seeing people slating Zlatan, Mkhi, Herrera, Mata, even Rooney (who I thought brought a bit of nouse to our midfield). The list goes on.

We were simply outplayed or outsmarted by Klopp. Liverpools pressing was fantastic. They got their goal and produced a game plan which we couldn't unfold. We were resorting to half pitch long balls for a good 25 mins before the final whistle because we had nothing else to try.

I think our starting 11 players are mostly individually fantastic. I'd be more wary of our approach to games were we are pressed this much, which is unusual in the Premier league.

Obviously that's your opinion but I don't think Klopp outsmarted anyone nor was their performance special.

Lallana man marking Carrick and the diamond caused us a problem but it also showed Liverpool weren't prepared to go toe to toe with us despite all the claims that if we both did they would brush us aside. Liverpool had a clear game plan, much like United did at Anfield, difference being they nicked the penalty to hold on to.

Later on United HAD to change things around as they were chasing the game. It was either that or carry on as we were in the hope one of our chances would go in.

A draw was a fair result but I feel United are improving hence Klopp's change of system. Pogba was poor and we missed a few simple chances but that's football. We came from behind against a stubborn well organised side to take a point and remain unbeaten in 16.

Lovren MOTM with Mingolet speaks volumes.

Liverpool have been together with Klopp much longer than we have JM but they still can't beat us or score in open play. United will only get better.

 

[RobinLFC]

Criticises my "penalty changed the game" narrative. Goes on to explain how the penalty changed the game.

Hmmm...

Speculation aside, do you not agree United were the team most likely to score up until we conceded that penalty?

It just looked like a 'if not for the penalty, we would've won' kind of comment to me, apologies if that wasn't the case.

You definitely had the best chances and looked the more threatening side, yes. But that doesn't equal most likely to win the game imo, that's all I was trying to argue.

 

[Sandikan]

It just looked like a 'if not for the penalty, we would've won' kind of comment to me, apologies if that wasn't the case.

You definitely had the best chances and looked the more threatening side, yes. But that doesn't equal most likely to win the game imo, that's all I was trying to argue.

I don't think that is the most outrageous statement though? The way we were creating the chances, you could almost imagine a commentator saying the classic "only one team's going to score here"

And then Pogba did a bit of ballerina work, and a ridiculous leap and handball.

Should have just stopped and let Lovren do his worst from that position. It wasn't like it was exactly a glorious chance!

 

[Sandikan]

It was an obvious penalty and I have no dispute with the award. However the intent ruling, which is incredibly subjective, complicates matters. I'm certain Pogba didn't intend to handle, he was just being a clumsy idiot. The Ref knows this too, hence no booking. No football fan would anyway dispute it should have been a penalty, but the rules disagree. They need to be changed. It's just daft (but no more daft than Pogba's moment of idiocy).

The "Intent" rule is one of the biggest crocks of bollox ever. Apart from when a defender on the line clearly means to handball it, as some reflex action, no one ever means to handball it, yet it often concedes a pen.

The law is very great with talk of "Unnatural" position of the hands, and many a moronic fan will still scream blue murder when a player smashes the ball into someone's hand from 2cm away.