OK maybe I exaggerated a little. Maradona was the closest thing to a one man team I've ever seen.He didnt win the world cup on his own. What a load of rubbish.Since when was football an individual sport?
Can there really be someone better than Messi in modern football?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are joined by special guest Anders (@Lyng) to celebrate the news that ETH is staying put! They also talk about the Euros so far, with special attention on England, Scotland and Denmark. They then finish with some transfer talk and the potential comings and outgoings at Old Trafford.
Mate you will never win an argument against a Messi fanboy.
For me until he does it on the biggest stage of them all he isn't the best we have ever seen. The same goes for Ronaldo.
I'm not a fanboy
Too many rubbish posters these days
No, the fact that the best manager ever has a different opinion on the topic makes it pretty clear that it's not a foregone conclusion that this thread title implies.
Fixed.
Sir Alex also thought Jones could be our best ever player. Maybe that's also wasn't a foregone conclusion at the time. I mean it's really been nail-biting on that one. I think it has been close.
Could =/= will
As I've pointed out before, Sir Alex cannot be expected to see into the future that Jones will be spending most of his United career in the treatment room.
Nothing wrong thinking Ronaldo is best but to use a manager preferring him as a reason to justify it, is petty.He makes mistakes, is the obvious point. Jones was never going to be our greatest ever player.
That's not even the point here. If someone quoted Xavi's opinion, widely regarded as one of the greatest midfielders the game has seen, on the pair of them, it would (rightfully) be treated as a joke. SAF loves Ronaldo. His opinion on this topic is meaningless. As would be Pep's.
So you're sayinng everything Fergie says is right?
SAF was the best manager of all time, that doesnt mean his opinions on which player is better or which player has more potential is infallible. It means he is the best at organising a football team to win games.
Exactly
Why would Fergie even care for Messi? He has never coached him or anything. He's just another player to him
To answer the op, yes. I'm actually more hoping to see someone like Ronaldinho, joy to watch, pure entertainment!
Agreed. That's what wins the argument for me. Doing the business at international level separates the men from the boys..
Just like how your little mighty mite plays international footy.
No, I'm saying Sir Alex knows a thing or two about footballers and who's the best.
So Schurrle and Gotze are men and Messi is a boy?
Sir Alex coached Ronaldo for 6 years. Obviously he's not going to upset Ronaldo. Don't take value into what managers say. It's all PR and doing each other a favor.
Ronaldo is better already, proven across multiple leagues , not a one man army.
That's the not-quite-dead-and-buried Stoke argument reappearing. It was bollocks then and bollocks now.
Whilst most people who claim Messi's best are related to Barcelona or Argentina...
Huh?
Those Barca and Argentina who claim he's best are in the same boat as Sir Alex. Fergie said 'Ronaldo is his boy' on Sky same way Pep said 'Messi is his boy'.
It's all opinion
Huh ?
How old are you?
Those who claim Ronaldo's best are girls, MU fans, ex teammates or coaches.
Or Ronaldo himself: http://en.as.com/en/2016/06/10/football/1465554862_424018.html
Or Ronaldo himself: http://en.as.com/en/2016/06/10/football/1465554862_424018.html
On a world cup level, yes. If you want to take every word literally.
My argument is that Maradona will go down as a greater player than Messi because of what he did at international level. Simple.
Not really. The vast majority of neutrals will remember Messi as the better player.
My problem with this line of argument is it suggests a player from an unfancied country can never be the greatest, regardless of what he is actually capable of.
Say Best had made different life choices and had managed to keep himself clean, and had gone on to lead us to 3 or 4 European Cups, and been better than Messi is now. Or if that doesnt compute for you, imagine instead that some 14 or 15 year old kid now from, I dont know, Kuwait, bursts onto the scene. The footballing equivalent of Neo from The Matrix, playing for a country so lacking in a supporting cast that even he couldnt get them to make a mark in a tournament. But at club level this kid is untouchable, consistent and can do it all, wins everything there is to win when surrounded by better players, even moves around a bit and proves it in various leagues. Does Maradona still eclipse him because he had the good fortune to be from Argentina?
Messi's club achievements far outshine Maradona's international achievements. And it's not because of Barca because he himself makes Barca good. Real's team was always great on paper since Ronaldo moved there yet Messi's club achievements are far better than Ronaldo's with Real for example.
It's not simple because it's all subjective
There is no official all time list you know. Some people think Pele is the best, some say Zidane.
You based this on the vast data available or just your personal opinion?
Are you seriously going down that route? The likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquests, etc are no better than the Real team?
You prefer Ronaldo like others....Some prefer Messi...whats your problem exactly?
Are they that much better to justify Barca winning 5 league titles and Real only 1 since Ronaldo's move to Real? Messi was the main force behind Barca's success.Are you seriously going down that route? The likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquests, etc are no better than the Real team?
No matter how good somebody is, there will always be somebody better......sooner or later !!
Rename the thread to "Messi vs Ronaldo".
My problem is that this thread title implies that Messi is better is a foregone conclusion which it clearly isn't.
How about the fact that most of them minus Messi won 2 Euros and 1 WC?
I agree with you inasmuch as the fact that it is debatable suggests this current top level - be it Messi or Ronaldo, depending on your personal opinion - can be improved upon. If two people can reach a similar level within a single generation, why cant someone else reach a higher level at some point in the future?
Agreed
In a way "healthy" means "average". For example is a person who is 2.1m tall wants to be an athlete he needs special supplements, diet because his height causes other deficiencies in his body, like with bones and stuff. Messi got HGH in much higher dosages than a body would produce, together with football training back then it resulted no doubt in much improvement of his leg muscles, lower body strength. So it was not just about the height, this medicine did help him to become a better footballer, there can be no doubt about it. I am not saying it's doping or something, but he was aided by current medicine and had he played in other, older era that simply would not be an option.
The development of sports medicine does produce a finer athletes. I've already referenced it, you may look at 100m result progression, it clearly shows that with time athletes run faster and faster. Surely it has little if nothing at all to do with talent, skill, dedication. Of course Bolt surpasses current fellow sportsmen in all that, we would be such a champion if he did not possess incredible skill, but compared to champions of 50s his dominance is supported by modern medicine, drugs. Same for Messi. It' just with athletic and running it's more clear-cut.
Spock, well it does not really Messi or football, but since computer able to generate a data (beauty) from 0s and 1s it's clearly not subjective.
So you might have performed at an outrageously amazing level season after season playing over 60 games a year including in a tournament against the very best players in the world every season, but if you haven't won a knockout tournament filled with teams selected purely on nationality thats only held every 4 years, then you can't be the best..
The mind boggles..
The mind boggles..