All Time Reserves Draft | Quarters

harms said:
I don't know. I feel like I'm biased towards Liverpool bunch of the 80's but I feel that they lack something to be considered equals to the very top players of their generation (apart from Souness maybe). Despite their European success. It's really a paradox of Liverpool in my eyes - despite them being more successful team on the continent I feel that we had at least 4 players that were better than anyone they ever produced (Charlton, Best, Law and Ronaldo) and a few that arguably were as good as anyone they had (Keane, Schmeichel, Ferdinand, Scholes). I'll try to keep an open mind about this although, I hope that you'll do a great job selling them
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@Brwned made a pretty similar argument once about them being a level below the other super teams like Milan, Barca, Bayern etc.

Anyway this is best left to matchdays.
 
I am surprised by your opinions about Liverpool who rule Europe between 1977-1985: European Cup 1977, 78, 81, 84 + Final in 85.

1985 was a turning point: 5-year European ban for all English clubs and a 10-year ban for Liverpool.

Aldo said:
Anyway this is best left to matchdays.
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Sure, not the time to disclose the pros and cons of teams.

On the other hand, analysis of the players is the welcome :)
 
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harms said:
I don't know. I feel like I'm biased towards Liverpool bunch of the 80's but I feel that they lack something to be considered equals to the very top players of their generation (apart from Souness maybe). Despite their European success. It's really a paradox of Liverpool in my eyes - despite them being more successful team on the continent I feel that we had at least 4 players that were better than anyone they ever produced (Charlton, Best, Law and Ronaldo) and a few that arguably were as good as anyone they had (Keane, Schmeichel, Ferdinand, Scholes). I'll try to keep an open mind about this although, I hope that you'll do a great job selling them
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England's domination in the European Cup in the late 70's/early 80's is really odd. The teams were so often outplayed and just fought their way to a win against the odds. At one point you do have to give them credit for getting the job done, not just once, but regularly. It's clearly a sign of quality. But it really is mind-boggling how it happened time and again that the inferior looking side went away as the winner. It especially annoys me because it overshadows the one period in football where the Bundesliga was the best league in the world with a crazy strength in depth and fully deserving of winning the Ballon d'Or regularly as shown in the performances in the UEFA Cup. Gladbach in '77 against Liverpool, Hamburg in '80 against Nottingham and Bayern in '82 against Villa were so obviously the better sides in the final. It's as if German football still has to pay for Bayern's 'slightly controversial' win in '75 against Leeds. All German teams ever since lost their European Cup finals when they faced English teams despite outplaying their opponent :mad:. Bayern three times in a row against Villa, United and Chelsea :mad: :mad: :mad:.
 
Interesting video not only because of the focus on the "Wembley goal" but also because the quality of the video is good.
 
Balu said:
England's domination in the European Cup in the late 70's/early 80's is really odd. The teams were so often outplayed and just fought their way to a win against the odds. At one point you do have to give them credit for getting the job done, not just once, but regularly. It's clearly a sign of quality. But it really is mind-boggling how it happened time and again that the inferior looking side went away as the winner. It especially annoys me because it overshadows the one period in football where the Bundesliga was the best league in the world with a crazy strength in depth and fully deserving of winning the Ballon d'Or regularly as shown in the performances in the UEFA Cup. Gladbach in '77 against Liverpool, Hamburg in '80 against Nottingham and Bayern in '82 against Villa were so obviously the better sides in the final. It's as if German football still has to pay for Bayern's 'slightly controversial' win in '75 against Leeds. All German teams ever since lost their European Cup finals when they faced English teams despite outplaying their opponent :mad:. Bayern three times in a row against Villa, United and Chelsea :mad: :mad: :mad:.
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I agree with you.

If we look at the last draft (Serie A, Bundesliga and Liga), Bundesliga players were sometimes underrated here.

Not easy to find interesting sources in English regarding some old-school Bundesliga players (video or press articles).

For example, almost impossible to find Youtube videos on some successful Bundesliga players in the 90s.
 
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Pat_Mustard said:
:D I couldn't resist. Fair play for opting for the non-vote friendly option. It gets boring if we're all just going for the usual suspects every draft, and it'll be interesting to focus on this pair of undeniably excellent Scouse bastards.
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Yes, at least in this company they should be absolutely fine.
Scouse bastards nevertheless!
 
Sorry been asleep and very busy.

I pick Evra.

Evra.jpg


@Marty1968 @mazhar13
 
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1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Billy Wright
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto perfumo
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Elkjær Larsen
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva
11. MJJ & green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. Wolfgang Overath 2. Hans-Georg Schwarzenbeck 3. Horst Szymaniak 4. Hernán Crespo
15. Edgar Allan Pillow- 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa
 
Downcast said:
I am sure @Balu has created the following video :D

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:lol: . Not really that bitter about it or at least not really into the whole conspiracy theory with the Russian referee and all that. We had a few lucky moments in our World Cup history as well and a few more unlucky ones. It's a bit silly if English football fans say it was a goal, when it clearly wasn't one of course. But oh well, don't really blame them for it, if it makes them feel better. In the end, no one knows if England wouldn't have won it anyway. It's simply part of World Cup history like many other controversies and in that context an interesting topic, but that's all.
 
Our next pick is a player who dazzled Italian and Juve fans for the whole of the '70's. His magical dribbling wowed crowds and bedazzled the opposition, whilst his crosses were picture perfect for the strikers. He's well-known to many football fans as "Il Barone".

causio-juventus-5t6y7.jpg


1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Billy Wright
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto perfumo
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Elkjær Larsen
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva
11. MJJ & green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G. Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio
15. @Edgar Allan Pillow- 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa

And, thus, ends the German theme that we seemingly had.
 
Balu said:
:lol: . Not really that bitter about it or at least not really into the whole conspiracy theory with the Russian referee and all that. We had a few lucky moments in our World Cup history as well and a few more unlucky ones. It's a bit silly if English football fans say it was a goal, when it clearly wasn't one of course. But oh well, don't really blame them for it, if it makes them feel better. In the end, no one knows if England wouldn't have won it anyway. It's simply part of World Cup history like many other controversies and in that context an interesting topic, but that's all.
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Well, you got one back at them in 2010.
 
1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Billy Wright
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto perfumo
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Elkjær Larsen
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva
11. MJJ & green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G. Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio
15. Edgar Allan Pillow- 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush 5. VR Andrade
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa

@Enigma_87
 
Enigma_87 said:
First one is easy:

104928-i_003.jpg


Ivan the Terrible.
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You know that "the Terrible" wasn't his actual surname? Because if you would've checked "Shesternyov" you would've found him in the blocked list
 
And

3214.jpg


Just found out that MAKÉLÉLÉ and POPLUHÁR are also blocked, being with É and Á on the list :D
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Take your time. I'm headed to work and will only post after a couple of hours.
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Nah won't be available for several hours, good that it was my turn just now. Your turn mate.

1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Billy Wright
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto perfumo
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Elkjær Larsen
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva
11. MJJ & green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G. Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio
15. Edgar Allan Pillow- 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush 5. VR Andrade
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz

@Edgar Allan Pillow
 
Aldo said:
They do not show up when you search without the accents?

Anyway, I sorted the names alphabetically so that you could find someone just by scrolling through.
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Nah, it doesn't show results.

When I compiled my list I used the ctrl+ f and those with the accents didn't show up hence I have to edit it as there are some others that I thought were available.

As for Shesternyov it is the correct spelling, but most of the time his name is translated in English as Shesternev hence he has featured on my list as well.

No biggie of course, I'll edit my shortlist :)
 
Enigma_87 said:
Nah, it doesn't show results.

When I compiled my list I used the ctrl+ f and those with the accents didn't show up hence I have to edit it as there are some others that I thought were available.

As for Shesternyov it is the correct spelling, but most of the time his name is translated in English as Shesternev hence he has featured on my list as well.

No biggie of course, I'll edit my shortlist :)
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Ah.
 
Schulz :( Surprised that he lasted that long tbf, he is better than half of the centre backs that were picked before him
 
Balu said:
England's domination in the European Cup in the late 70's/early 80's is really odd. The teams were so often outplayed and just fought their way to a win against the odds. At one point you do have to give them credit for getting the job done, not just once, but regularly. It's clearly a sign of quality. But it really is mind-boggling how it happened time and again that the inferior looking side went away as the winner. It especially annoys me because it overshadows the one period in football where the Bundesliga was the best league in the world with a crazy strength in depth and fully deserving of winning the Ballon d'Or regularly as shown in the performances in the UEFA Cup. Gladbach in '77 against Liverpool, Hamburg in '80 against Nottingham and Bayern in '82 against Villa were so obviously the better sides in the final. It's as if German football still has to pay for Bayern's 'slightly controversial' win in '75 against Leeds. All German teams ever since lost their European Cup finals when they faced English teams despite outplaying their opponent :mad:. Bayern three times in a row against Villa, United and Chelsea :mad: :mad: :mad:.
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I watched the Villa game fairly recently and the result always seems a bit ridiculous given the actual match that took place. Agree on the Hamburg and Gladbach finals as well - or even the United one in 1999. That said I do think that Liverpool vintage are rather under-rated on here. They have all these European Cups yet barely anyone on this forum would place any of their best players in an all-time British or British club XI. Of course there is some mitigation in there in terms of a dip in superstar quality, a bit of cup final luck, etc. But that disconnect between what they achieved and how they are regarded doesn't quite add up and ultimately comes down to this being a United forum. That's inevitable really.
 
harms said:
Schulz :( Surprised that he lasted that long tbf, he is better than half of the centre backs that were picked before him
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Had either him and Shesternyov as my first choice, of course didn't realize he was blocked. Sweepers there are still options, not so in the stopper position that would be available to me after 30 picks or so.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Had either him and Shesternyov as my first choice, of course didn't realize he was blocked. Sweepers there are still options, not so in the stopper position that would be available to me after 30 picks or so.
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Shouldn't have corrected you :lol: Too bad there are no sheep for invalid picks
 
Gio said:
I watched the Villa game fairly recently and the result always seems a bit ridiculous given the actual match that took place. Agree on the Hamburg and Gladbach finals as well - or even the United one in 1999. That said I do think that Liverpool vintage are rather under-rated on here. They have all these European Cups yet barely anyone on this forum would place any of their best players in an all-time British or British club XI. Of course there is some mitigation in there in terms of a dip in superstar quality, a bit of cup final luck, etc. But that disconnect between what they achieved and how they are regarded doesn't quite add up and ultimately comes down to this being a United forum. That's inevitable really.
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Yeah, no doubt about that. I'd argue they fall a bit short vs the elite players in all the other teams that dominated in Europe for a while, but with all those blocked, the strong core of that Liverpool side should shine quite a bit in this draft.

It's not just the finals by the way, the Bayern-Liverpool semifinal in 1981 was the same story. Can't comment on the final vs Real that year, don't think I've ever watched that.
 
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