Of course we would be better and more functional with 2 more world class players in the team. Any team would. That's not the point though. It shouldn't take world class players to be able to play an exciting brand of football. Adding world class players into an exciting style should not make it better and more consistent. We'll still be boring as feck even if we get these players in, and that's the whole problem. Its not a problem with possession football. Its how van Gaal plays possession football. We're just so boring every game. Fans want excitement. Sure van Gaal could probably win a few things with us if we replaced our current wide options with the likes of Bale, neymar, Muller or whoever else we're going for. That proves nothing though, since you put those players in half the teams in the league and they'd all jump up 5 positions in the league.
Who still has faith in The Philosophy? / LVG Supporters' Thread
- Thread starter Parma Dewol
- Start date
I think the plan is/was to win the EPL within his three years. I can grant you that 4th place was acceptable last season. I would say challenging for the title was the goal this season.
I don't think there's much to dislike about the philosophy. I'm thrilled we are focusing more on youth, mirroring our youth system to the first team helps with player progression and changing to a possession based system is a must for top clubs for me, there isn't much to really dislike about what LVG is trying to implement.
The problems haven't been with the philosophy itself but the way it's been implemented. Whether LVG is simply struggling to communicate what he wants to the players or the players simply aren't good enough I'm not sure, but LVG is accountable with it currently not working. I expect with a few additional top class attackers it could really start to work and that LVG will get it right at some point, but I'm not sure if we should whether we should afford him that time or give a similar manager the opportunity to continue what he has started. I'm not too phased whether he's gone by the end of the season or not.
The problems haven't been with the philosophy itself but the way it's been implemented. Whether LVG is simply struggling to communicate what he wants to the players or the players simply aren't good enough I'm not sure, but LVG is accountable with it currently not working. I expect with a few additional top class attackers it could really start to work and that LVG will get it right at some point, but I'm not sure if we should whether we should afford him that time or give a similar manager the opportunity to continue what he has started. I'm not too phased whether he's gone by the end of the season or not.
You only have to look at the difference between Liverpool 13/14 with Suarez and Sturridge and 14/15 without them to realise what a difference two players can make to a whole team.
With them teams were terrified and they played some thrilling stuff, without them their midfield and defence was a shambles as teams no longer feared them and actually played football against them.
It would be the same with us. Look at any team making waves right now and they have at least two top attacking talisman. Even Leicester have Vardy and Mahrez while Tottenham have Kane and Eriksson.
We're not going to do any damage until Martial and Memphis mature or we buy another top class attacker or two.
As soon as we do that the whole dynamic of the team will change and people will start to appreciate the players we have and the football they play. Possession football with an attack that can score 2 or 3 goals most games will have people fawning.
i have faith. that is all....
I'm still in the mad king Louis camp, before Shaw had his leg broken we were looking pretty good, I think this system is dependent on full-backs that can cause a threat in the final third - something which we're lacking at the moment.
I have a limited amount of faith.
Van Gaal's philosophy is fundamentally flawed. As such I don't expect us to ever become a brilliant team under him, or play attractive football.
I do think he can get us back to grinding out ugly but impressive results though. If we sign more quality he might even be able to eek out a trophy or two before his contract runs out.
That's not a particularly big upside but given he's only here for the short term it would probably be enough. It would at least keep things steady enough until we get the chance to appoint a good successor.
In fact I have more faith in Van Gaal than our ability to appoint a better manager the next time.
Van Gaal's philosophy is fundamentally flawed. As such I don't expect us to ever become a brilliant team under him, or play attractive football.
I do think he can get us back to grinding out ugly but impressive results though. If we sign more quality he might even be able to eek out a trophy or two before his contract runs out.
That's not a particularly big upside but given he's only here for the short term it would probably be enough. It would at least keep things steady enough until we get the chance to appoint a good successor.
In fact I have more faith in Van Gaal than our ability to appoint a better manager the next time.
LVG truly believed that 15/16 was the season that Rooney would be out of the shadow of RvP and go on a scoring riot. That just didn't happen until two weeks ago. If somehow Rooney were to have performed all season at the level he's been performing the last two weeks we'd be at the top of the table and rubbing our hands in glee at the prospect of playing Gent.
Isn't it that simple? I think it is. We ground out a few results earlier this season despite Rooney's poor form but eventually we got found out in December by clubs we should have pounded. But even with Rooney back in fine form we're still only eeking out wins. We can blame that on a crazy injury crisis perhaps but it's still frustrating to see us struggle against every club we face, match after match.
But facts are still facts: most neutral observers have been critical of our unattractive style of play and we're currently out of the top four. His management has been disappointing this season. As of right now the case for his return next season is very weak.
Isn't it that simple? I think it is. We ground out a few results earlier this season despite Rooney's poor form but eventually we got found out in December by clubs we should have pounded. But even with Rooney back in fine form we're still only eeking out wins. We can blame that on a crazy injury crisis perhaps but it's still frustrating to see us struggle against every club we face, match after match.
But facts are still facts: most neutral observers have been critical of our unattractive style of play and we're currently out of the top four. His management has been disappointing this season. As of right now the case for his return next season is very weak.
Still a bit undecided. On the one Hand I have the Feeling to see glimpses of improvement. On the other Hand our attacking Play still Looks so uninspiring 95 % of the time.
Looking at the Money we have spent and Players like AdM or Kagawa having left I am not too happy with our current Status.
However, today`s Problem go back to the end of SAF`s reign but have been masked by a last title under him.
Looking at the Money we have spent and Players like AdM or Kagawa having left I am not too happy with our current Status.
However, today`s Problem go back to the end of SAF`s reign but have been masked by a last title under him.
The philosophy is fine and it's not even his philosophy. The problem is with his inability to implement it.
Oh yeah, I agree. It'd be something close to a miracle if we manage to win the CoC, this season. Plus, the boost it'll give our players to get back into the competition having already been knocked out... wow.[/QUOTE]
Under Moyes, game week 23, 2014:
Utd have 37 points from 22 games.
Under Van Gaal, game week 23, 2016:
Utd have 37 points from 22 games.
Utd have 37 points from 22 games.
Under Van Gaal, game week 23, 2016:
Utd have 37 points from 22 games.
Top 3 - I keep hearing that is our objective from different sources from post-match interviews and the likes... I reckon if he only just gets 4th a decision will have to be made. Top 3 and he is nailed on for a 3rd year, but 4th? He might not be, the manner of it and our style of play might start to weigh in, along with who is available. Fail to get 4th and he certainly won't be here for another year!
Very much this. I don't like our current style and I don't think LVG is doing himself any favours, poor subs and not doing much to adapt but I can see the long term benefit. But you can't have the long term if you fail completely in the short term (Moyes made that mistake), if we miss top 4 he won't be getting another shot at it.
We'll have to disagree. When you have a player like ADM who was clearly the best attacker on the team, the manager should have built around him. LvG stuck with 3-5-2 for a large part of last season which has no good spots for ADM. LvG forced ADM to adopt to his formation and style. It doesn't make you wonder that ADM had a great season with RM, lousy season with us, and now having another great season with PSG (13 goals and 11 assists in all comps)? And remember, ADM missed the preseason with PSG.
All I know is I would be a lot more excited to watch United if Di Maria was at left wing doing his thing. And I would have loved to see ADM on left and Martial on the right.
It seems to me that ADM enjoys being a flat-track bully and didn't relish the physical challenge of the Prem. He under performed for us and his lack of discipline got us knocked out of the FA Cup v the Arse. All-in-all his time with us was indeed a failure but I don't think the majority of the blame should be placed at LVG's door...
I do agree that we need game changers like him though. What we are really missing at the moment are a top class striker (the gamble was that Rooney still could be one), a rapid winger with a scoring touch (again, the Memphis gamble not De-paying off yet) and MOST IMPORTANT in my mind the creative 10 in the Litmanen role. It's the absence of a truly special 10 that is the real flaw in our current system. It isn't Mata, Herrera or Rooney but until we find one then the potential of Louis's philosophy will likely remain unfulfilled...
Fwiw I remember supporting Van Gaal's decision to leave Di Maria on the bench when Young was playing better than he was. I also think it's reasonable to ask a player to fit into a system, rather than building a team around an individual player. So I for one couldn't now criticise his handling of him. If I had a criticism it would be not working out whether he would fit into his system before he signed him. Seems like Di Maria did exactly what it said on the tin, a bit more due diligence and we might have spent the money on a player Van Gaal would actually use.
At Madrid under Mourinho I have seen him deployed as left back or right mid a few times wonder what his opinion was of that.
Btw what do you disagree with, him not playing badly or he came back from injury/suspension at a time his cover was doing well?
Every time we get a couple of decent results a new 'Stick with van Gaal' thread pops up. It does not alter the fact that he is not the right man for United. He's just bought himself some more time that's all. Remember De Gea saved his bacon on Sunday. If he hadn't won that game at the weekend, he would have gone down in the history books as factually worse than Moyes, putting that argument to bed once and for all but even now his record is not much better than his predecessor. Again the top 4 finish earned him some credit last year but we did feck all with that opportunity...and top 4 is not a given this year either. His 'plan, 'philosophy', 'process'...whatever the feck you want to call it sucks and ain't working. He's had long enough to implement it and we still do not seem any further forward! I suppose we'll just have to wait till we get picked off in the cups and end up scrapping for Europa League places this year before the die-hards realise this too.
Guys.. We won 1-0 courtesy of a lucky break, our football is still clueless and dire, get a grip
Vangle in a nutshell.
I agree.
Messi would make Bournemouth better, but his performances for a team who play possesion football would be much much better.
We need and probably have spent time targeting the players that can finish off the passes.. That has to be the reason for such blank spaces in the squad.
Its strange that most people had lost faith in Moyes by this point.
Yet many people still cling onto LVG.
Perhaps because our standards have fallen, where losing and drawing is acceptable. In Moyes' time, losing and drawing were not acceptable.
Myself, I realised when we lost to Middlesborough, Norwich and Bournemouth that to beat these minnows, LVG would need Messi (or similar).
In effect, LVG reduces the ability of our players.
I have also players like Di Maria and even Memphis arrive at MUFC. They play well immediately. And the more he is under LVG's influence, the worse he gets. A season later, that decent player struggles to score a goal.
The one thing LVG seems good at is defence. When it comes to attack, unless we have Messi (or similar), we will always struggle to score more than 1 goal/game.
Personally, I think LVGs methods are about 15 years out of date and he needs to retire asap.
I meant the FA cup ffs![/QUOTE]Yeah mate, we already lost the league cup. Middlesborough beat us at OT.
I'll bet Levy has breathed a huge sigh of relief when LVG decided to come here instead.
I haven't completely lost faith in LVG, but it's hanging by a thread.
I can't even remember the last time we put in a great performance against a decent club. Maybe City last season. We struggle against every single club we play against now, eeking out some wins here and there.
I can't even remember the last time we put in a great performance against a decent club. Maybe City last season. We struggle against every single club we play against now, eeking out some wins here and there.
None whatsoever. The 'philosophy' doesn't exist. We've simply reverted back to type. Play like crap and win. The sooner Van Gaal clears off the better.
I like van Gaal and I think he's laying down a very good foundation for our next manager but I lost all my faith after the Norwich match. This two attacker stuff is very flimsy considering he's spent around 110m on three players(AdM, Martial and Memphis) and has failed to get the best out of all of them.
He should have been sacked right after the Norwich match IMO.
Having said that the Moyes comparisons are simply ridiculous considering the overall quality of the league has increased quite a bit in the last two years.
He should have been sacked right after the Norwich match IMO.
Having said that the Moyes comparisons are simply ridiculous considering the overall quality of the league has increased quite a bit in the last two years.
I feel as if it's gone the other way. When Moyes was in charge, there were four teams playing really well and vying for the league. Now, you have a cluster feck of a bunch of shit teams losing to each other every week.
thats because the midtable teams have become more competitive and stronger
That year with the best team in the league from the year before dropping down the table like a stone and gifting points to everyone in the top half of the table and padding out their points totals, i think it was actually a weaker league than 2012-13 as opposed to a stronger one which a lot of people seemed to think back then and even now.
Though still a stronger league than this year. When a team who looked a certainty for relegation this time last year are now top of the table in January, it points to the league being weaker overall. I highly doubt that could have happened even 4-5 years ago.
Dpn't forget the top teams are worse than ever.
philosophyI can still only hazard a guess at what the philosophy is. I think the players might be the same!
Is it possession football? Keep the ball at all costs. Score if you're lucky.
Is it possession football? Keep the ball at all costs. Score if you're lucky.
I would still love to see a fairy tale ending to LVG's career because I actually admire him and I feel the Media have been absolutley disgusting and horrible to him as a human being and our club in recent times, but unfortunately that is how cruel this sport can be and he knows very well what he has signed up for, LVG has came here to pick up the pieces and do a lot of dirty work, which he has to done to a certain extent. His first year was progression and this year feels like regression (though we still have a bit to go) so you can understand why the fans have turned, If he makes it into the top 3 then again it will be seen as progression and thats my fear, because I am not sure we can attract the players United so desperately want with LVG at the helm, I love the guy but I want whats better for the club and IMO I believe the club also know this by now and thats why they have set out and approached Managers to take over in the summer.
They want to regain that attractiveness for the top players because it will help off the field just as much as it will on, this has lead me to really believing United may have a successor to take over in the summer of 2016 and my belief is its Mourinho, why? he turned down the madrid job confrimed by Calderon, the ever reliable gianluca di marzio stated Jorge Mendes has a big project which involves Mourinho to United, then United asked Ancelotti to take over in the summer confirmed by Ancelotti's agent, (which shows we are looking at making the change in the summer), Its also has been stated by decent sources that LVG has requested to step down but was begged to stay by woodward ect.. and most recently a lot of sources in his homeland have also suggested he is to leave after this season.
All this information comes to the conclusion in my opinion that there will be a change in management at United in the summer and Mourinho is very much the man in pole position I believe also this would also be strenghtened if we do nothing in the January transfer window.
They want to regain that attractiveness for the top players because it will help off the field just as much as it will on, this has lead me to really believing United may have a successor to take over in the summer of 2016 and my belief is its Mourinho, why? he turned down the madrid job confrimed by Calderon, the ever reliable gianluca di marzio stated Jorge Mendes has a big project which involves Mourinho to United, then United asked Ancelotti to take over in the summer confirmed by Ancelotti's agent, (which shows we are looking at making the change in the summer), Its also has been stated by decent sources that LVG has requested to step down but was begged to stay by woodward ect.. and most recently a lot of sources in his homeland have also suggested he is to leave after this season.
All this information comes to the conclusion in my opinion that there will be a change in management at United in the summer and Mourinho is very much the man in pole position I believe also this would also be strenghtened if we do nothing in the January transfer window.
I agree ADM's form went in the toilet after a few months into the season. He started brilliantly and then started fading. The physical nature of the Epl no doubt was a factor. However, it's the managers job to keep players like this happy and us them in a manner most beneficial to the team. Again, I ask you where does an ADM play in a 3-5-2 when the manager wants a more defensive lineup? Wing back? Inside mid? Forward? I know he played inside mid at times with Madrid but their attacking style is light years different than ours. He is best on the touchline. My point is LvG stuck with the 3-5-2 way too long (remember we started playing decent when we went 4-1-4-1) last season and it was to the detriment of ADM more than anyone else. That's on the manager. Is their any team on the planet who could not use the talents of ADM? Apparently one, MU.
@JPRouve wheb you said this club was full of Klose's did you mean we have too many Luca toni's or what?
I meant what I said.
It was?
So, why did he start off at a blistering pace - MOTM performances.
Or you are saying that as the season progressed, he got weaker?
Or as the season progressed, our rivals became physically stronger?
Or maybe he got tired, from sitting on the bench all the time?
Sorry buddy, but I don't buy that. Di Maria was desperate for game time (not bench time). LVG's priority was to concede zero goals, not scoring goals and ADM is a luxury player who is there to create/score goals - not defend. He was our most prolific attacker last season. Had he stayed this season, with all the demands to ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, the press/fans would've demanded that Di Maria play every game. Oh and BTW, Di Maria, a player who is fast, creative, a Galactico is exactly the sort of player we need right now (and is the sort of player LVG said he is looking for, but can't buy).
As you stated, Di Maria is a great player. And in my book if he is good enough for Madrid and PSG (both teams are light years ahead of us in terms of on-pitch performance), then he is good enough for MUFC.
Gosh, next time read the whole post before responding. You are fighting the wrong person.